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[elliot5]

They are not going to release games that can only do 720p on the Series S.

literally why not? Are you referring to Microsoft first party games? Of course they won't because they have the most experience with it. Worst case they upscale from 900p or something with FSR 2.0 or some other technology.

But a third party? They can put it out at 720p if they have to. There is NOTHING preventing them from doing that. It is up to the XSS owner whether that is acceptable or not.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Plenty of verified devs have come forward and said the Series S doesn't hold anything back, sure its an extra step in the dev process but wtf does anyone here care about that for? You are consumers, you consume things. You don't make the games, stop pretending to care about this stuff. There is so much more to life than crying about these issues that in no way affect anyone here.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

They never provided a breakdown of sales between the Series X and S. Are maybe I missed that?

Dunno about the US but in various countries I've seen sales reports suggesting that the S is outselling the X. Some of that might have been availability but the lower price and smaller footprint is obviously a draw.

MS said in the beginning they were expecting the S to outsell the X in the end. That might have been more marketing/trying to justify the S but you have to realize all MS wants is Gamepass subs, and the S makes that cheap and easy.

 

[Swift_Star]

Dunno about the US but in various countries I've seen sales reports suggesting that the S is outselling the X. Some of that might have been availability but the lower price and smaller footprint is obviously a draw.

MS said in the beginning they were expecting the S to outsell the X in the end. That might have been more marketing/trying to justify the S but you have to realize all MS wants is Gamepass subs, and the S makes that cheap and easy.

And that’s exactly why devs should port games to Xbox only when MS pays then that fat check

 

[SmurfMustard]

Come on. Some of you guys are so desperate that as soon as some VFX guy from Bossa Studios sings your song you all begin to dance. Not even the people on the console warrior clown planet managed to fill 9 pages with stupidity.

 

[BennyBlanco]

And that’s exactly why devs should port games to Xbox only when MS pays then that fat check

console wars really have people going full retard around here these days

 

[Jigsaah]

Apparently the "MANY" devs are actually the one guy in the OP who is not a dev, but a really crummy VFX artist that specializes in mobile games for iOS and Android and has nothing to do with optimizing games. He has also deleted his BS tweets.
His resume and Portfolio

Edward850, a verified Engineer at Night Dive Studios (System Shock Remake), has a very different take on the Series S than the clown in the OP.

Edward

And the voice of reason surfaces again. I'd ask somebody to buy me gold, but...well....yea.

 

[tygertrip]

If games are going to get presets to be steam deck compatible in the future, there really is no reason those same levels of presets can't be imported for Series S while developers are free to do more bespoke development on PS5 and Series X to better realize their visions.

After all, we have seen multiple examples of games which launched at 30 FPS on Series S and 60 on the other consoles.

There may be a mandatory launch requirement on Series S, but it doesn't look like there is a mandatory performance-match requirement for the developers to give the games

Nvm

 

[tygertrip]

Sure, there are also games which barely hit 30 FPS on the much more powerful PS5 and Series X as well. So there's that too.

Steam Deck compatibility is becoming more and more common with each new release, almost every notable release is "Deck verified" at launch and with the proliferation of the device and how fucking popular it is, I see that trend only going up.

Steam Deck is indirectly good for Switch Pro/Series S for the coming years.




dude .. really ?

If you think the Steam Deck is going to have an influence on conse game development, you might need to step outside the online echo-chamber for a bit.

 

[tygertrip]

Devs can push visual fidelity and also have lower quality version of the assets to fit GPU's with lesser VRAM pools. Those two things don't have to be mutually exclusive.

It's the same reason why games which are already pushing PS5|SX to sub 30 like Gotham Knights and Plague Tale Requiem to a lesser extent are also working with just as good, and in some cases more stable, performances on Series S. Drop resolution, lower asset quality and effects to a lower preset and it's a go in most cases.

Programming optimization for different cases is not always as simple, or possible, as you think it is. It is sometimes IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Deerock71]

Pretty sure I played the Matrix demo on that thing, so they can suck tailpipe.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

the absolutely hilarious thing about this conversation is that in the coming years, devs will focus on providing support for the Steam Deck and the next gen Switch, both of which are weaker than the Series S.

By next year, Steamdeck sales will undoubtedly be at the 4 million mark at least. You’d be hard pressed to find devs not optimizing for the Deck.

Next gen Switch with DLSS will be a significant target for next gen developers too.

People are barking up the wrong tree…

And you made the biggest point of this thread. The one thing I'll say for the steamdeck is that it has more RAM (16GB) than Series S despite being weaker. RAM on Series S is easily the biggest complaint, but they're running games on it at lower resolutions than Series X anyway.

 

[adamsapple]

Pretty sure I played the Matrix demo on that thing, so they can suck tailpipe.

True, true. It is the single most impressive 'next gen' game type thing we have so far.

 

[anothertech]

Never was a question. Was just a matter of time. Close wall system need firm specs to get most out of hardware.

The attacks against him and the size of his studio are childish.

 

[Gambit2483]

The Series S holds back next gen gaming and it would be made clear within 2 years when PlayStation exclusives out shine every game that is also on Series S because Microsoft is forcing that potato on gaming Devs.

Sony is going to strategically use that weakness of Xbox to make exclusive deals with 3rd party studios especially after they release PS5 Pro and the power leaves Series S even further behind.

Sony will tell 3rd party studios that are struggling with Series S why delay your games when you can make an exclusive deal with PlayStation and release your games on PS5 and PS5 Pro while figuring out how to port the PS5 version to the potato within that year exclusivity deal. Why let the potato hold you back from making millions?

It makes me wonder if that's why SE still hasn't bothered putting FF7R on Xbox...or why Silent Hill 2 is currently a PS5 exclusive.

If devs don't want to limit their potential they can always just ignore the Xbox completely.

 

[tusharngf]

there is a tool called PIXIE which decides how much resources are needed for series S and series X. Developers dont have to work on estimations as microsoft has a tool for that purpose and it scales the game accordingly.

 

[iHaunter]

I said this on GAF when that piece of garbage dropped and got a warning for console warring.

 

[CamHostage]

It makes me wonder if that's why SE still hasn't bothered putting FF7R on Xbox...or why Silent Hill 2 is currently a PS5 exclusive.

If devs don't want to limit their potential they can always just ignore the Xbox completely.

Wonder what you want, but it's not because of Xbox Series S.

 

[adamsapple]

It makes me wonder if that's why SE still hasn't bothered putting FF7R on Xbox...or why Silent Hill 2 is currently a PS5 exclusive.

If devs don't want to limit their potential they can always just ignore the Xbox completely.

That's what it made you wonder ? really ?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The Series S holds back next gen gaming and it would be made clear within 2 years when PlayStation exclusives out shine every game that is also on Series S because Microsoft is forcing that potato on gaming Devs.

Sony is going to strategically use that weakness of Xbox to make exclusive deals with 3rd party studios especially after they release PS5 Pro and the power leaves Series S even further behind.

Sony will tell 3rd party studios that are struggling with Series S why delay your games when you can make an exclusive deal with PlayStation and release your games on PS5 and PS5 Pro while figuring out how to port the PS5 version to the potato within that year exclusivity deal. Why let the potato hold you back from making millions?

Bullshit, they just have to make the game 1440p instead and 4k and this is all set! It takes like a minute to do the first time!

I have a friend who did it without even noticing.

 

[Crayon]

there is a tool called PIXIE which decides how much resources are needed for series S and series X. Developers dont have to work on estimations as microsoft has a tool for that purpose and it scales the game accordingly.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Its a great entry level console if you don't care for the best graphics settings.

Devs may find they need to do extra work to get games running decently well on the machine but the market needs the Series S to expand the reach of AAA gaming to the budget conscious consumer.

 

[Jimmyisback]

Who is this person. His game I love fish looks like it could run on easily on original xbox one.

 

[Knightime_X]

Did these devs make anything for ps5 and happily ported the same game to vanilla ps4 as well?

 

[semiconscious]

pages & pages of discussion based on a tweet made by a vfx artist at bossa studio? never change, neogaf...

 

[Reallink]

There's no reason to have meetings or spend any time on this. If Microsoft wants to mandate support their little pauper box, just run the Series S version at 480p and batch convert all the textures to quarter resolution. Let MS explain to people why they sold them a piece of shit for $300 and why $400 Playstation runs laps around it.

 

[Corndog]

This is a lot more work and downgrading... YOu can't just make fully next gen anymore as it has to be S compatible.
So You make the game S compatible and then run higher res/fps on ps5/xsx....
Or You make it for ps5/xsx and then try to figure out how to make it run on S without doing 720p...

Sucks ass. This gen was suppsoed to be an easy gen to dev for because CPUS are finally great and IO is amazing.

And why would S evne exist ?! It's only 100$ cheaper than ps5 digital and so much weaker. It is pointless and stupid that m$ segregated market like that

Why did Sony make the ps3 so weak and hard to program? It took a while but developers got the hang of it.

 

[Beechos]

Why did Sony make the ps3 so weak and hard to program? It took a while but developers got the hang of it.

Lol that pretty funny referencing that other thread on how making it harder to program made the sony devs what they are today.

 

[Hugare]

I have a gaming PC with Game Pass, so don't try to read this as me being a "Sony pony" or whatever

But it's obvious since next gen systems were announced that PS5 exclusives will show what next gen trully is

It's not obvious right now due to the cross gen phase, but as soon as cros gen gets dropped, we will see the gap getting wider and wider between MS exclusives / multiplatform releases to PS exclusives due to the Series S

 

[Corndog]

Lol that pretty funny referencing that other thread on how making it harder to program made the sony devs what they are today.

I didn’t. It’s a fact it was harder. Many developers starting developing first for ps3 and then porting to 360. I guess that held the 360 back right.

 

[PhaseJump]

Come on. Some of you guys are so desperate that as soon as some VFX guy from Bossa Studios sings your song you all begin to dance. Not even the people on the console warrior clown planet managed to fill 9 pages with stupidity.

It pleases me that you are referring to that shithole as the console warrior clown planet.

My life goal in this matter has been fulfilled, and now I am moving on to trying to speak aloud the word "Hadouken" every time I sneeze in public. It's difficult, but only the best things in life truly are.

 

[akimbo009]

Arguing about elimination xss while cross gen games exist.....

 

[tusharngf]

i mean few adjustments are needed but it takes the headache of optimizing the game for series S.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I have only one thing to say to developers crying about Series S.

I suspect it would be hard to develop since you have less resources.

It's kinda funny to see them cry about it.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

They should just drop the Series S altogether. Waste of resources. Better to design specifically and make the absolute most out of the better system, the Series X.

 

[PhaseJump]

I only use the Steam Deck, I'm kicking around a One X already, and now I am thinking about buying a shiny and new XSS. Thanks, whining developers.

I feel the sudden need to hold back the hopes and dreams of this industry's labor force as much as possible. I feel like it will help keep my wretched soul from evaporating between shit posts around being a toy consumer. Hopefully November's shopping season brings some kickass game bundles to offset the winter of widespread high inflation, breadline dancing, catatonic despair, and absolute fucking doom we are in for.

 

[MadAnon]

I am not a developer but struggle to understand the reasoning? How can the same system but with weaker GPU and smaller ssd be a problem? Isn't series S a 1080p system? They are not different architectures. It's hard to make your game run at much lower resolution?

 

[wolywood]

"Series S....total disaster...a lot of people are saying it. Believe me folks, believe me."

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It's amazing how many Gaffers think they're experts on game development just because they know how to tweak some parameters in an ".ini" file for their PC.

It's Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

 

[onesvenus]

It's amazing how many Gaffers think they're experts on game development just because they know how to tweak some parameters in an ".ini" file for their PC.

It's Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

I think that the XSS will limit the graphics of games appearing on the Xbox and that we will see a difference between Xbox and PS5 games at the end of the generation.

Having said that, I think that argument of XSS being a burden on development is not a valid one while these same studios are targeting lower specs on the PC side. It might be if they weren't, but they are.

Now, with your expertise on game development, can you clarify that point for me? How can the XSS be a burden right now if you have to support even lower specs?

 

[Nocturno999]

Bossa studios make games that can run even on an Xbox 360. I don't get the complaint.

 

[rofif]

Why did Sony make the ps3 so weak and hard to program? It took a while but developers got the hang of it.

What.
PS3 had a crazy good cpu

 

[bender]

 

[MAtgS]

They should just drop the Series S altogether. Waste of resources. Better to design specifically and make the absolute most out of the better system, the Series X.

Series S sells extremely well and was less impacted by the chip shortages. MS would be stupid to drop it.

It's like saying the Switch was a mistake and Nintendo should be going console only. Which some people are crazy enough to believe.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Series S sells extremely well and was less impacted by the chip shortages. MS would be stupid to drop it.

It's like saying the Switch was a mistake and Nintendo should be going console only. Which some people are crazy enough to believe.

The Switch and Series S are not comparable in any way, shape, or form.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I think that the XSS will limit the graphics of games appearing on the Xbox and that we will see a difference between Xbox and PS5 games at the end of the generation.

Having said that, I think that argument of XSS being a burden on development is not a valid one while these same studios are targeting lower specs on the PC side. It might be if they weren't, but they are.

Now, with your expertise on game development, can you clarify that point for me? How can the XSS be a burden right now if you have to support even lower specs?

Says who?

Devs don't "have to" support PC specs lower than XSS at all. Your assumption is what fails your logic.

 

[Robb]

If devs don’t want the Series S they could opt out developing games for Xbox. I’m sure MS would drop it if that happened on a large scale.

Doesn’t seem like that’s happening though. I’d expect we’ll get the same scenario next gen and that Sony might follow suit considering it seems to be paying off for MS.

 

[onesvenus]

Says who?

Devs don't "have to" support PC specs lower than XSS at all. Your assumption is what fails your logic.

Replace "have to support" with "are supporting". Now, can you answer my question?
Thanks

 

[Three]

How can the Series S "hold games back" when PC exists? There are AAA games released now that run on RX580s

If your game looks shitty or runs at 20fps on an RX580 nobody cares except maybe you on the RX580. If your game looks too different or rans at 20fps on Series S you aren’t getting certified. meaning you aren't releasing on Series X or PS5 either until MS are happy with that versions performance and difference.

 

[Gambit2483]

That's what it made you wonder ? really ?

I mean, they did put all other FF on Xbox Series, right? Even FF13 was on Gamepass. Sure Xbox sells like crap in Japan but it has a bigger market outside of it.

Also, based on that early footage of SH2, they'd have to do a lot of extra optimizing to get it running on Series S I'm guessing.

Or maybe it's a case of most Japanese publishers not wanting to put their games on Xbox unless they get a guaranteed Gamepass deal...?