Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Praise Bill Clinton!
Replying to both of you because it think the same answer might apply here.
Elden Ring is a muuuuuch longer game than any of the Souls games. Hell, I'd say it's about 3 games in one. As a result, the soft level cap for most stats is around 60. Additionally, the build variety (as others have pointed out) is as wide and deep as it's ever been. Use that variety to your advantage.
It's not recommended to focus on just on one stat for a build. You would be shooting yourself in the foot by going all in on just strength, intelligence, faith, etc. I don't think you realize this, but an undiversified stat distribution is locking away the utility of a ton of items you get from exploration. Judging by your posts, this seems to be the case. Instead, explore a hybrid distribution of points.
For example, my first build was dexterity + intelligence so I was katana wielding mage (don't laugh at me - I didn't realize Moonveil was the meta). My second build in NG+ was strength + intelligence + faith and I was dual wielding Moonlight + Golden Order greatsword while stocking up on a bunch of lighting + gravity based incantations. My third build was faith + arcane + dexterity and was wielding Mogh's spear with a bunch of blood + frenzy incantations. I just started a new run and my latest build is faith + dexterity and I'm using a Winged Scythe with some basic Golden Order incantations.
Experiment! Combat becomes way more dynamic once you start to mix it up a bit. Also, who cares if the build isn't viable for PvP. As long as the game is fun to play in PvE, that's all that matters.
Unless you want to lock yourself out of all magic + incantations + dragon abilities and focus only on melee builds then I would recommend throwing some points into Intelligence, Faith, or Arcane. Dexterity is great for getting to use some of the more unique weapons, but you'll rarely need a large number of points in both Strength + Dexterity. It's a bit counterproductive after a certain point.I would always do that. Have only put stats in vitality, stamina, strength, and dexterity. The combat isn't really my issue. Although I do find it kind of odd how people complain about some games being "samey", like GoW R compared to GoW 2018. Then praise ER when it's literally DS4 gameplay. Again, not too much of a complaint as the combat is great but still odd to me.
Ah, yeah that's a FromSoftware trope. There's a secret set of daggers you can get if you manage to defeat it. As for looking for a key, if you go straight to the gates of the academy you'll find a map with a very clearly marked "X" for location of the key. The challenge is scanning the surrounding the geography to find where the map is referencing.The problem is the game forces you to explore and it's just not fun to me at all. First, the game drops a boss in at the very beginning (not tutorial section) where you have no chance. Then after the first main area, you get to a locked gate/seal in the second region, in which you need to explore for the key.
The whole point is to explore. It sounds like open worlds aren't your cup of tea then. Not much I can do with that.If the game was linear, I would enjoy it much more and be able to get through it. Just can't with how it's set up. Feels like it doesn't respect my time.
Yea not really interested in the magic stuff. The amount of hours I spent in souls games and I've never once cared to even try them. Can just tell I wouldn't enjoy it as much as the melee combat.Unless you want to lock yourself out of all magic + incantations + dragon abilities and focus only on melee builds then I would recommend throwing some points into Intelligence, Faith, or Arcane. Dexterity is great for getting to use some of the more unique weapons, but you'll rarely need a large number of points in both Strength + Dexterity. It's a bit counterproductive at that point.
, yeah that's a FromSoftware trope. There's a secret set of daggers you can get if you manage to defeat it. As for looking for a key, if you go straight to the gates of the academy you'll find a map with a very clearly marked "X" for location of the key. The challenge is scanning the surrounding the geography to find where the map is referencing.
Why I dislike it so much lol. I do enjoy open world games too. Hell, Horizon zero dawn was probably my favorite game last gen. Either that or Bloodborne. I know it's blasphemy here on gaf, I just think Er does open world badly.The whole point is to explore. It sounds like open world's aren't your cup of tea then. Not much I can do with that.
In GOW's case, it has adopted somewhat of an open-world pattern but it's not really open world game, so knowing where to go next isn't something that I would consider "spoiling" anything. You can take different pathways in certain cases but navigating the land isn't a puzzle that you or your companions need to solve for you. As for the characters giving you the solution to a puzzle, well, that mostly has to do with anything that has to do with the story and one thing they [games like GOW] try to do, is show that your companions can help you, are dealing with the same situation as you are (but yes, they should allow people to completely turn that off), BUT in GOW's case, your companions, don't solve the chest puzzles for you that are not tied to the story so unless I was just really fast at figuring things out, I didn't have them tell me how to solve those, I kinda had to do that on my own.Aloy or Kratos's companions spoiling to you where to go and how to solve puzzles on a constant basis would be a prime example of what I'm talking about.
Horizon Zero Dawn was being received well but got overshadowed by BOTW. What you seem to want is every game to adopt the thing that is special to you right now because its different. Imagine 100's of games like that, then it will become more of the same.I don't recall BOTW beating the shit outta anyone. Not to the extent as Elden Ring did. I'm not forgetting about BOTW either, but it was 5 years ago and clearly other studios didn't learn any valuable lessons that BOTW taught.
Ah, gotcha.Slight correction but it was a few devs from a few different companies. One was a Quest Designer who worked on Horizon TFW, the other worked at Ubisoft. I believe there was a third who worked on Sony games. There might have been others but those are three I recall.
I am not sure if I have. I am glad every game has a different thing to offer us over every game being open world with BOTW's formula. I like Zelda for that, but I don't want every game there is to become it. Although, I would not mind a separate option in these linear games where you are given a walk anywhere to fight option using the game's combat system (kinda like the Mercenary modes in RE games) but I wouldn't trade what we get with linear games (a more focused gaming experience) over it. Variety is good.Ok I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, it sounds like you might have misinterpreted what I said.
Calling it a revolution might be an exaggeration but the ”putting it in a more open environment” is the thing people like, if you listened to John then that’s what he’s talking about and that’s what I talked about too. It’s actually what some diehard Souls fans don’t like about it as well.I played the game, there's really nothing that stands out than taking the series and putting it in a more open environment imo. I mean it's still a good game I just don't get why people are acting like it's revolutionary for Souls-Style games.
It does have some great sales so regardless of GOTY it's selling well.
My twitter has 600 followers. That's another one for ER.My brothers and I just posted our reviews on Twitter. Tlou2 is now at 325
I think as a complete game both these original games are better than the sequel. I look at the package the game offers and for me they are both better.I mean, when have you replayed tlou1? It's quite limited in combat and then you got to move boxes.
in tlou2, all gameplay elements are WAY better. It's just long.
I do have part1 remake and intend to play it finally, so I will be 100% fresh how 1 plays
As for Gow, I have a need to replay 2018 one more than Ragnarok. I liked more personal, "smaller" story that is easier to replay.
Ragnarok is great but I don't feel like playing other character, slowly walking through the ass section for 2 hours and then the inventory is a bit overbuilt and gear is a bit much at times. Thankfully not overbuilt and as bloated as horizon.
Not at all, but I appreciate your opinion. Introducing more characters doesn't just make something better if the writing doesn't hold up. I would rather take fleshed out characters over just adding more and using cheap tactics like this ones pregnant so you gotta feel for her. The writing in ragnarok and lou2 is no where near the quality of the original. The systems in lou 2 are great, I agree but that doesn't cover horrible pacing and a game that feels like it needs a good 5 to 8 hours shaving off it. Characters that die and just vanish from everyone's minds with no remorse.It seems people confuse longer, non-linear, and focus on more than one character as "bad pacing". Its like, as soon as a story becomes more than just "Start. Middle. End." yall say it has bad pacing.
No.
Both GOW 2018 and TLOU 1 are simple and barebones in comparison to their sequels. Both sequels are better games.
They give us more to explore, introduce new themes, expand on the world significantly. They introduce an entire cast of new characters, and give us the perspectives of the same events through the eyes of different characters.
There is nothing to "try and argue". If someone has the opinion that Ragnarok and TLOu 2 are better than their predecessors in every way then that's their opinion. You might as well argue with someone about their favorite color.
This to me is such a bogus take. By this token Hitchcock was wrong to have Janet Leigh headlining Psycho... Hiding a major twist to maximize impact is legitimate.
Damn right we care !!!Multi-platform title gets more awards than a single-platform title... shocking!
Also, are we really supposed to care about this?
Damn right we care !!!
There will be DLC & Elden ring 2 after this !!!
What a weird comparison. A movie from the 60s, where advertising was extremely limited… and a modern video game with an advertising budget of multi millions, and multiple adverts. Nothing about Psycho’s advertising suggests that something happens in the movie when it doesn’t. TLOU2’s advertising is full of deception.
And given the recent ruling about false advertising in movie trailers, it probably wouldn’t get done today.
Its exactly, exactly, the same principle.
There's no way that Druckmann, who's clearly very cine-literate didn't have the similarity in mind.
Killing your "star" off in the first 30 minutes is a risky move, as its about as brutal a rug-pull you can inflict on your audience, so its natural you'd want to maximize the impact by not tipping them off in advance.
The whole "false advertising" thing is, in my opinion, pretty fucking pitiful. Its so infantile.
Its not protecting anyone, its demanding to have your tiny hand held so you aren't "disappointed"! And people complain about modern entertainment being formulaic and lacking in surprise...
There's nothing wrong with killing off your main character in the first thirty minutes, but I do think there's something wrong with actively telling your consumer base that it's something that isn't going to happen. Now, you might be okay with that level of deception, but many aren't. They didn't need to go that far. Just don't show Joel in the promotional material. But then of course, they knew how divisive the death would be, so they deliberately lied about it happening, because they knew that if people suspected he was going to be killed off, some of them wouldn't have bought the game. They didn't do it for any reason based around the story, it was purely a decision cynically based on their bottom line.
So, everyone gets to have the twist revealed because some emotional infants are overly attached to a fictional character, or a certain celebrity, or whatever?
Again, that's pathetic.
I'm so sick and tired of being dictated to by the fragile and weak minded. Fucking safetyism man... take responsibility for your own shit.
This has nothing to do with the actual twist in the story, but the fact Naughty Dog actively promoted that the twist does not happen, because they were worried about their profit margins.
No. It was a simple misdirection. Joel was in the story, just not as a playable character.
Abby being the protagonist for half the game was also downplayed in the marketing for exactly the same reason.
Wanting to surprise, even shock your audience isn't a conspiracy or some ploy for profit maximization; its simple dramaturgy and showmanship.
If all they cared about was money they'd have gone in a completely different direction creatively.
Your argument is essentially 'I'm fine if I'm actively deceived about a product before I purchase it'.
Games like Horizon and God of War need to have an option to turn off "hints" for puzzles and what not. I'm not the only one who recently complained about GoW:R's npcs give you all of 15-20 seconds before telling you how to solve a puzzle. I saw that critique everywhere. It's not an unreasonable request. There's a reason why Elden Ring gave players a sense of fulfillment and achievement when they discovered it's worlds secrets.In GOW's case, it has adopted somewhat of an open-world pattern but it's not really open world game, so knowing where to go next isn't something that I would consider "spoiling" anything. You can take different pathways in certain cases but navigating the land isn't a puzzle that you or your companions need to solve for you. As for the characters giving you the solution to a puzzle, well, that mostly has to do with anything that has to do with the story and one thing they [games like GOW] try to do, is show that your companions can help you, are dealing with the same situation as you are (but yes, they should allow people to completely turn that off), BUT in GOW's case, your companions, don't solve the chest puzzles for you that are not tied to the story so unless I was just really fast at figuring things out, I didn't have them tell me how to solve those, I kinda had to do that on my own.
I want to see more games follow BOTW and Elden Ring's approach to Open World design, and exploration. I don't want all games to copy exactly what Elden Ring did. That'd be stupid. The "Ubisoft Approach" to Open World design is too common imo, and I want to see the scales start to tip the other way. There's a stark difference between discovering 5 small caves to collect the 5 pieces of some armor by following markers to the caves on your map, and just wandering the land and happening upon a well that goes to a vast underground city. The latter imo just gives a far more intense and satisfying sense of fulfillment and excitement.Horizon Zero Dawn was being received well but got overshadowed by BOTW. What you seem to want is every game to adopt the thing that is special to you right now because its different. Imagine 100's of games like that, then it will become more of the same.
No my argument is that I'm an adult, and would very much like other people to act like adults.
Unfortunately because of the ever encroaching culture of safetyism*, that's looking like an increasingly vain hope.
Your fee-fee's are evidently more important than the rights of creatives to present their art in the way the see most fit, and for the intended adult audience to be actually surprised by a piece of entertainment.
I hold your argument to be worthy of nothing but contempt.
*The demand for state/legislative intervention to prevent "harm".
Oh my god, you've turned a discussion about a video game company lying in their advertising, into something about state intervention politics.
You're mad.
Also.., no politics!
FunkMiller said:It's the cynicism of it that's the problem, and I'll be glad if the legal decision around Yesterday and Anna De Armas means that this type of thing isn't allowed to go on anymore.
Never understood why is death was met with such a reception. He literally is a main character in 1 game (in which you don't even play as him the entire game and the DLC you don't play as him at all)!They hinted at Joel’s death in literally the very first reveal trailer. We all knew it was coming. People guessed it right the moment they saw this
Like, the trailer screams, JOEL IS A GHOST.
Them putting him in the launch trailer was MEANT to throw us off. And it worked.
It’s about trying to shock and surprise the audience. And it worked. Not about profit maximization. If it was that, Joel would have been the main character again. Think straight for a second.
It’s a shame it leaked. Because the reception would have been much different.
Edit: and here we go proving my point again, Joel’s death is talked about more than anything in elden ring. Look what this thread has become. Leave it long enough and his death will be brought up in a Genshin Impact thread lmao
I wasn't dismissing what you were saying about hints and I agreed that they should give us an option to make it optional or a way for the player to initiate it within the game environment. I was just sharing my experience....I found them to do that when it was something story related, not when it was something unrelated to moving the story forward - e.g. most of the chest based puzzles, they didn't offer any hint or clue. My point was, linear based games like GOW in the past have had built-in hint systems, sometimes integrated in a way that was seamless (Sands of TIme's save system was also a way for the Prince to see the future of his own actions) and with GOW: R, the character talking to you is their way of doing it, but yes, they shouldn't be so quick to solve it for you and it should be player initiated (show dialogue prompt over their head like TLOU).Games like Horizon and God of War need to have an option to turn off "hints" for puzzles and what not. I'm not the only one who recently complained about GoW:R's npcs give you all of 15-20 seconds before telling you how to solve a puzzle. I saw that critique everywhere. It's not an unreasonable request. There's a reason why Elden Ring gave players a sense of fulfillment and achievement when they discovered it's worlds secrets.
What did Elden Ring do that separated it from BOTW? (I know it combines Souls gameplay into it, but what else?)I want to see more games follow BOTW and Elden Ring's approach to Open World design, and exploration. I don't want all games to copy exactly what Elden Ring did. That'd be stupid. The "Ubisoft Approach" to Open World design is too common imo, and I want to see the scales start to tip the other way. There's a stark difference between discovering 5 small caves to collect the 5 pieces of some armor by following markers to the caves on your map, and just wandering the land and happening upon a well that goes to a vast underground city. The latter imo just gives a far more intense and satisfying sense of fulfillment and excitement.
You will find that opinions on these games will differ from person to personThis is a good take.
I like Abby too but last of us 2 is not a better game than the first.
Soon we will have peeps trying to argue ragnarok is better than gow 2018 when both the lou 2 and god of war r are completely narratively and pacing wise a bit of a mess. Both are bloated decent games but nothing special that lost their magic when they lost the original directors.
I find it funny that both last if us part 1 and gow 2018 felt so focused in their goals with a clear vision from beginning to end and both sequels just jump around and seem confused imo.
Bring back Bruce Staley and Corey I guess.
I can agree that the way they did it was, bad....but I think their reason for doing so, was because they wanted to keep it a surprise and add to the shock factor.They didn't shock or surprise... they straight up lied.
And they lied because they knew a lot of people wouldn't have bought the game if they'd suspected Joel was dead throughout. It's the cynicism of it that's the problem, and I'll be glad if the legal decision around Yesterday and Anna De Armas means that this type of thing isn't allowed to go on anymore.
There's a vast difference between not giving your narrative's plot twists away (which is fine) and stating that a plot twist doesn't exist, because they're scared you might not buy their product, if you think otherwise.
Your argument is essentially 'I'm fine if I'm actively deceived about a product before I purchase it'.
That's not something I can get on board with, for what should be obvious reasons.
EDIT: apologies everyone else for this hideous derailment.
Man, some of you get really twisted if game designers have you switch characters during the game without it being a choice.This is a good take.
I like Abby too but last of us 2 is not a better game than the first.
Soon we will have peeps trying to argue ragnarok is better than gow 2018 when both the lou 2 and god of war r are completely narratively and pacing wise a bit of a mess. Both are bloated decent games but nothing special that lost their magic when they lost the original directors.
I find it funny that both last if us part 1 and gow 2018 felt so focused in their goals with a clear vision from beginning to end and both sequels just jump around and seem confused imo.
Bring back Bruce Staley and Corey I guess.
I can agree that the way they did it was, bad....but I think their reason for doing so, was because they wanted to keep it a surprise and add to the shock factor.
Man, some of you get really twisted if game designers have you switch characters during the game without it being a choice.
They made the games long because for the longest time the complaint was how the games could have been longer....too short (10-15 hrs or 8 hrs isn't short) and now that they are long, it's "bloated"....gamers just don't know what they want lol.
And people can like Ragnarok better than 2018. Or like them both. Nothing wrong with that opinion just because it doesn't align with yours.
EDIT:
Although for TLOU: P2 - they could have separated the character play-throughs into their own campaigns, like RE2 - I bet a lot of people would stop complaining lol.
Games use to be 8 hrs, then they were 12-15 hrs and now they can be up to 30 hrs. When they were 8 hrs, it was too short. Even when it was 10-15 hrs, some said it was also short. Now it's bloated. Not just talking about you here.I have never had a problem with a strong 12 to 15 hour game. thats the perfect length in many ways.
Good thing they are not just designing games for YOU only then...eh?Id rather take 2 or 3 amazing different IPs with great storys over one 80 hour bloat fest or even 40 hours or so.
Also, no issue with it jumping to other characters, but in the case of "God Of War" then no, ive been playing for like almost 20 years...no I dont need to switch to an annoying teenager who uses a bow as a club lol
EDIT:
Although for TLOU: P2 - they could have separated the character play-throughs into their own campaigns, like RE2 - I bet a lot of people would stop complaining lol.
Yeah, I think you are right about that. That might have been a better way to handle it.I’m actually really enjoying Abby’s section the second time around. If only they’d done a better job of engaging our empathy with her before having her kill Joel, I think a lot of people’s issues would have been avoided.
Games use to be 8 hrs, then they were 12-15 hrs and now they can be up to 30 hrs. When they were 8 hrs, it was too short. Even when it was 10-15 hrs, some said it was also short. Now it's bloated. Not just talking about you here.
Good thing they are not just designing games for YOU only then...eh?
You have to understand that they are aiming for the right balance. I was fine with how long GOW: R was. I took my time through it, explored every area and did all the side quests because I was enjoying the gameplay. Maybe you have tricked yourself into believing you actually enjoy the gameplay because I don't see a problem with getting "more" of what I like.
The game or series just might not be for you and that is perfectly fine.
Well, I would say GoW: R is "actually [a] good" game but everyone wants different things from different games. If you really find the game to be long, then you can choose how much time you spend with it each time you launch it, you are still in control of that. You might prefer the setting or story of another game better and that is fine but one does not need to knock another game just because it doesn't match up 100% to what you want. So, I am fine with what you were saying overall in this post but you had to do the list # games and label those "actually good" over GOW:R/TLOU simply because you like them better lol. They all have their strengths. I am just glad that we have so many different types of games where you don't need that one game to be everything else.I think you are right. I think it's that I just dont think that God Of War Ragnarok or Last Of Us 2 was good enough to carry a 25 - 40 hour game.
GIve me something like a Fallout / ELder Scrolls game, or witcher 3, or xenoblade, or Elden ring, or Returnal or Vampire survivors..or the list goes on and on and I don't even notice that im 100 to 200 hours in, because the games are actually good.
They should go straight to making ER2 and skip the DLC.Damn right we care !!!
There will be DLC & Elden ring 2 after this !!!
Calling it a revolution might be an exaggeration but the ”putting it in a more open environment” is the thing people like, if you listened to John then that’s what he’s talking about and that’s what I talked about too. It’s actually what some diehard Souls fans don’t like about it as well.
Games use to be 8 hrs,
The types of games I was speaking of tended to be around that long (e.g. Prince of Persia: Sands of Time was between 8-10).On consoles maybe lol.
No offense but it’s not ”certain” gaming circles and journalists. It’s the vast majority. There is no reason to downplay it’s success and praise or make it seem like it’s not worth it because it’s not your thing. Go back and listen to what John Linneman says in his GOTY video, I time-stampend the link for the ER talk.That's nice, but the core of the gameplay, design, and mechancis are effectively the same slightly adjsuted for an open world environment, there's almost imo, no substantical change or increase in quality due to the open-world, in fact, I would say it has trade-offs, and is why imo, I don't believe it sticks out as much as people seem to be pushing for, and the casual players are buying it to wagon jump.
With that being said it's still a good game, I just certain gaming circles and journalists are really making it seem like there was some drastic improvement and revolutionary change to the Souls formula. It's this fact I doubt the next game they put out will replicate the tone that ER is receiving.
With that said, the Souls games are the Souls games, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with them.
No offense but it’s not ”certain” gaming circles and journalists. It’s the vast majority
That's nice, but the core of the gameplay, design, and mechancis are effectively the same slightly adjsuted for an open world environment, there's almost imo, no substantical change or increase in quality due to the open-world, in fact, I would say it has trade-offs, and is why imo, I don't believe it sticks out as much as people seem to be pushing for, and the casual players are buying it to wagon jump.
With that being said it's still a good game, I just certain gaming circles and journalists are really making it seem like there was some drastic improvement and revolutionary change to the Souls formula. It's this fact I doubt the next game they put out will replicate the tone that ER is receiving.
With that said, the Souls games are the Souls games, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with them.
But they are, that’s why this thread exist.No it's not, the vast majority isn't calling it revolutionary, giving it gaming awards, and talking about things most of the people buying the game are talking about.
But they are, that’s why this thread exist.
Tell me you haven't played Elden Ring without telling me you haven't played Elden Ring.
Have you not learned your previous two lessons, Afro/VoostKain?