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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


  • Total voters
    886
  • Poll closed .
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Bernoulli

M2 slut
the CMA will lose guys
just do some proper research and you will understand that it's over for the CMA


9tA8o9H.png
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Interesting how Sony allowed them to remain multiplatform where as that was a dealbreaker for Microsoft.
Sony was thinking about breaking the MP arena. They paid a billion for the staff expertise on top of the purchase. Sometimes you have to know your limitations, this is the fruit of it. Get support to help you with the weak spots
 
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Bernoulli

M2 slut
I thought the crazies existed only in forums and twitter. Didn't know reddit has crazies as well. They are fucking everywhere.
On there they are worse just go see for yourself
never wrong and superiority complex
They are saying the government needs to intervene and that it's a disaster that the CMA is independent and shouldn't be allowed to block Microsoft :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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splattered

Member
Xbox/Phil is also keeping games away from Playstation, or did you forget about Zenimax/Bethesda? (Also, and as reported by someone else, Xbox under Phil refused Bungie because they [Bungie] didn't want to go exclusive.)

I know you are a little soft towards Xbox/Phil, but you could have tried to be a little more impartial. :D

Given where we are this generation, they should both fully embrace putting games that are multiplayer centric on each other's consoles and try to standout with single-player games.
I was just being a smart ass earlier, and yeah I agree it could be cool for Xbox fans to play twisted metal with playstation fans via cross play etc
 
I just think it crazy cause it stop because of cloud gaming. Like cloud gaming been trying for over 10 years. I say we got another 10-15 years before cloud gaming can pick up some kinda stream.
 
I thought the crazies existed only in forums and twitter. Didn't know reddit has crazies as well. They are fucking everywhere.

Yep, I've seen some of the hopium filled posts on Reddit alright, it does give me a good laugh scrolling through some of those Reddit posts on the Microsoft-ABK merger topic. As for Twitter ...



Hah! Apparently now all Microsoft has to do is just open a dev studio in the UK, that'll surely make some waves with the UK government, and Rishi Sunak will be blown away by such a move by Microsoft and then he'll rush to squash the CMA shortly thereafter!

Seriously though, I'm glad we have NeoGAF around to provide some semblance of sanity on this topic.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Yep, I've seen some of the hopium filled posts on Reddit alright, it does give me a good laugh scrolling through some of those Reddit posts on the Microsoft-ABK merger topic. As for Twitter ...



Hah! Apparently now all Microsoft has to do is just open a dev studio in the UK, that'll surely make some waves with the UK government, and Rishi Sunak will be blown away by such a move by Microsoft and then he'll rush to squash the CMA shortly thereafter!

Seriously though, I'm glad we have NeoGAF around to provide some semblance of sanity on this topic.

Open a UK dev studio
season 8 hank scorpio GIF
 
Moblie gaming continues to be the worst thing that ever happened to this industry.
Mobile and consoles are separate markets.

Much like how cloud is also a separate market.

Which is why we're all still here, because the acquisition wasn't allowed to go through by the CMA, who defined cloud as a separate market.
 
Source please?

I really don't know much about rhe Bungie acquisition. Only what Sony did to aquire them but I'm not aware of thr others that tried. It really did seem like a weird acquisition to me when it was first announced.
It is a weird acquisition. Personally, I wouldn't want any company under my umbrella that insists it remains platform agnostic. It should be determined by the leaders of the parent company, on a case by case basis. That is, if it makes sense to be exclusive, fine. If it doesn't, fine.

But Sony has a wider plan, and they're slowly moving forward with that plan.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Mobile and consoles are separate markets.

Much like how cloud is also a separate market.

Which is why we're all still here, because the acquisition wasn't allowed to go through by the CMA, who defined cloud as a separate market.

Now you've got that off your chest allow me to explain why I brought up mobile gaming:

I was referring to how many of the things that are synonymous with mobile gaming have influenced console gaming, and in some cases wholesale made their way over to console gaming.
 

dibella360

Banned
Here is the full CAT Appeal:

"Ground 1: The Respondent made fundamental errors in its assessment of the Applicant’s current position in cloud gaming services by failing to take account of constraints from native gaming (whereby gamers access games installed on their devices through a digital download or physical disc), undermining its SLC finding:

a) In its market definition analysis, the Respondent failed to consider potential switching to native gaming, resulting in a flawed conclusion that cloud gaming services fall in a separate product market.

b) Even on the Respondent’s erroneous, narrow, market definition, the Respondent failed to take into account relevant out-of-market constraints from native gaming in its competitive assessment of vertical foreclosure effects.

c) The Respondent made fundamental errors in its calculation and assessment of market share data for cloud gaming services and as a result failed to take into account relevant considerations in its competitive assessment.

Ground 2: The Respondent erred in failing to take proper account of three long-term commercial agreements which the Applicant had entered into with cloud gaming providers for the licensing of rights to stream its games, including Activision’s gaming content, post-Merger (the “Agreements”) in its assessment.

Ground 3: The Respondent’s finding that Activision would have been likely to make its gaming content available on cloud gaming services absent the Merger was irrational and arrived at in a procedurally unfair manner.

Ground 4: The Respondent’s findings that the Applicant would have the ability and incentive to foreclose rival cloud gaming services by withholding access to Activision’s gaming content post-Merger was unlawful. In particular, the Respondent’s analysis was affected by four errors, each of which in isolation, separately, and/or cumulatively, renders the findings on ability and incentive unlawful, irrational and/or disproportionate.

a) The Respondent wrongly relied on evidence that so-called ‘AAA’ games would be important for cloud gaming services to find that Activision games in particular would hold such importance.

b) The Respondent failed to take account of relevant evidence regarding immediate losses from hypothetical foreclosure, which showed that the Applicant would not have an incentive to withhold access to Activision games from cloud gaming rivals.

c) As set out in Ground 1 and Ground 2, the Respondent wrongly failed to take account of (i) relevant out-of-market constraints and (ii) the Agreements.

Ground 5: In assessing remedial action for the SLC, the Respondent:

a) Erred in law by proceeding on the basis that it had a duty to impose what it described as a comprehensive remedy, thus failing to consider a range of remedies and assess their benefits and detriments in the round;

b) Unlawfully failed to take account of the interests of comity;

c) Erred in rejecting the Microsoft Cloud Remedy, which rejection was in all the circumstances disproportionate; and

d) Acted in breach of the Respondent’s common law duty of fairness and the CMA’s own remedies guidance"


Source - https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/microsoft-arguments-appeal-against-uk-cma-activision-blizzard
 
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Here is the full CAT Appeal:

"Ground 1: The Respondent made fundamental errors in its assessment of the Applicant’s current position in cloud gaming services by failing to take account of constraints from native gaming (whereby gamers access games installed on their devices through a digital download or physical disc), undermining its SLC finding:

a) In its market definition analysis, the Respondent failed to consider potential switching to native gaming, resulting in a flawed conclusion that cloud gaming services fall in a separate product market.

b) Even on the Respondent’s erroneous, narrow, market definition, the Respondent failed to take into account relevant out-of-market constraints from native gaming in its competitive assessment of vertical foreclosure effects.

c) The Respondent made fundamental errors in its calculation and assessment of market share data for cloud gaming services and as a result failed to take into account relevant considerations in its competitive assessment.

Ground 2: The Respondent erred in failing to take proper account of three long-term commercial agreements which the Applicant had entered into with cloud gaming providers for the licensing of rights to stream its games, including Activision’s gaming content, post-Merger (the “Agreements”) in its assessment.

Ground 3: The Respondent’s finding that Activision would have been likely to make its gaming content available on cloud gaming services absent the Merger was irrational and arrived at in a procedurally unfair manner.

Ground 4: The Respondent’s findings that the Applicant would have the ability and incentive to foreclose rival cloud gaming services by withholding access to Activision’s gaming content post-Merger was unlawful. In particular, the Respondent’s analysis was affected by four errors, each of which in isolation, separately, and/or cumulatively, renders the findings on ability and incentive unlawful, irrational and/or disproportionate.

a) The Respondent wrongly relied on evidence that so-called ‘AAA’ games would be important for cloud gaming services to find that Activision games in particular would hold such importance.

b) The Respondent failed to take account of relevant evidence regarding immediate losses from hypothetical foreclosure, which showed that the Applicant would not have an incentive to withhold access to Activision games from cloud gaming rivals.

c) As set out in Ground 1 and Ground 2, the Respondent wrongly failed to take account of (i) relevant out-of-market constraints and (ii) the Agreements.

Ground 5: In assessing remedial action for the SLC, the Respondent:

a) Erred in law by proceeding on the basis that it had a duty to impose what it described as a comprehensive remedy, thus failing to consider a range of remedies and assess their benefits and detriments in the round;

b) Unlawfully failed to take account of the interests of comity;

c) Erred in rejecting the Microsoft Cloud Remedy, which rejection was in all the circumstances disproportionate; and

d) Acted in breach of the Respondent’s common law duty of fairness and the CMA’s own remedies guidance"


Source - https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/microsoft-arguments-appeal-against-uk-cma-activision-blizzard
woow spicy. some heads are going to roll
 

POKEYCLYDE

Member
Explain what just came through like I am 5. Please. Legally things...

over my head GIF by Echosmith
Microsoft's arguments are basically this:

Ground 1: CMA put too much importance on cloud and didn't take into account native gaming, console/PC regular downloads. Native gaming would downplay clouds importance essentially and that wasn't factored into the decision.

Ground 2: The CMA didn't put any weight into the cloud deals Microsoft made.

Ground 3: The CMA's conclusion that ABK would eventually put their content on cloud gaming services was a leap at best.

Ground 4: The CMA's conclusion that Microsoft would have the incentive to withhold ABK content from rival cloud gaming services was "unlawful" for 4 reasons. Ground 1 and 2, but also the CMA failed to take into account Microsoft's immediate losses from withholding ABK content. And without evidence says AAA content, ABK content in particular would be very important to this cloud gaming market.

Ground 5: CMA went in thinking they needed a comprehensive remedy package therefore they were apt to overlook any other type of remedies. They overlooked the benefits of the merger. They rejected Microsoft's remedy package which was unfair and a breach of the CMA's own guidelines on remedies.


That's my understanding of the document anyway, in simple terms.
 

FUBARx89

Member
I thought the crazies existed only in forums and twitter. Didn't know reddit has crazies as well. They are fucking everywhere.

Reddit, specifically the series x sub is absolutely horrific for the shit they spew about it. Probably putting Ree to shame with how they go on about it.
 

Tams

Member
1. I don't know how you segment it with any sort of sense. It's just another form of gaming. It's like taking away a place that specializes in tacos from fast food. It's still part of the fast food industry.
But lets go with taking it away, why does buying a game company that makes 99% from it's revenue from "not cloud gaming" matter? Either it's separate or it's not, you can't have it both ways.

2. It may be "growing" and expected to be larger, but they have been saying that for many years. Also the wording used there is very telling, cloud gaming to become a huge part......part of what? The gaming industry? Then include the whole industry.

3. 20 million used is useless, it's like 20 billion served at McDonalds, doesn't tell you anything about today or this month or this year. Talk to be about dollars spent per day, per month, per year, specifically on cloud gaming.
The number is way smaller than it's being made out to be.

Give it up.

Unless Microsoft and ABK somehow remove cloud gaming, the CMA aren't going to budge.

Cloud gaming is a different market. The issue is, the same non-cloud games can be essentially instantly used for cloud gaming. And the CMA at least, have decided that they can't take a companies' pinky promises to behave well.

The UK has been fucked over with multinationals breaking promises after acquisitions very quickly too many times.
 

Ronin_7

Member
Give it up.

Unless Microsoft and ABK somehow remove cloud gaming, the CMA aren't going to budge.

Cloud gaming is a different market. The issue is, the same non-cloud games can be essentially instantly used for cloud gaming. And the CMA at least, have decided that they can't take a companies' pinky promises to behave well.

The UK has been fucked over with multinationals breaking promises after acquisitions very quickly too many times.
Reminds me of Meta Giphy, they wasted a whole year on that.
 

The boss of the European Commission has explained in detail why her agency approved Microsoft's $68.7bn Activision Blizzard deal - and why she thinks the UK was wrong to block it.

In a speech given yesterday, European Commission executive vice president Margrethe Vestager laid out the regulator's own "call of duty" to only block buyouts when really necessary.

"Merger control is by nature a forward-looking exercise," Vestager said. "But that power comes with challenges... And to make things even more complicated, for global deals many authorities are predicting the future, at the same time. Of course we cooperate, but disagreements sometimes happen. No less recently than last week, we cleared the Microsoft/Activision deal, while the CMA decided to block it."

Vestager said she believes regulators such as the EU's European Commission and the UK's Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) should not be concerned with how decisions are perceived.

"Currently, some people think that agencies should either block or clear mergers. Nothing in between. So if you block you are a 'tough' enforcer. If you clear, well, let's just say you are not perceived as tough.

"That is not our policy," Vestager continued. "Framing enforcement in a binary decision (to clear or to block) is limitative. There will be cases where competition issues cannot really be solved by a divestment, and the market will not necessarily be better off if we block the merger.

"Occasionally, we reach decisions that are not aligned with every other jurisdiction. So I'd like to take a few moments to set out why we believe the Microsoft/Activision merger - with appropriate remedies - is not only compatible with the Single Market, but in fact represents a positive development."

Vestager discussed the decision her agency came to when deciding the Microsoft deal's impact on console competition - something the EC and CMA ultimately agreed upon - and the conclusion that Xbox owning Call of Duty would not unfairly impede PlayStation.

"The overall market share for Microsoft and Activision was generally low in Europe. It's only when you look at specific segments like 'shooter games' that you get to above 20 percent. And for consoles, Sony sells about four times more PlayStations than Microsoft sells Xboxes. With this context, we did not think the merger raised a vertical issue.

"I am told Call of Duty is a very popular shooter franchise," Vestager continued. "But we found that Microsoft would probably not shoot itself in the foot by stopping sales of Call of Duty games to the much larger PlayStation player base. Our colleagues at the CMA agreed with us and ultimately reached the same conclusion."

Vestager then discussed the issue of cloud gaming, the other major area of contention for regulators - the one where Europe and the UK ultimately disagreed.

"We accepted a 10-year free license to consumers to allow them to stream all Activision games for which they have a license via any cloud service," Vestager explained. "And why did we do this instead of blocking the merger? Well, to us, this solution fully addressed our concerns. And on top of that, it had significant procompetitive effects.

"Consider the pre-merger situation, where Activision does not license its games to cloud services. So, in this case, the remedy opens the door for smaller cloud services in the EU to offer big games on their platforms, widening choice for gamers. The merits of this remedy was recognised across the spectrum - by developers, by cloud gaming providers, by distributors and of course also by consumer groups. And that is because it unlocked the potential of the cloud market."

The UK's regulator disagreed with this assessment - and has already commented on why it came to a different conclusion to its European colleagues. In short, the CMA did not want to predict and police the cloud gaming market over the next decade and beyond, even with Microsoft's proposed remedies in place.

It's a decision which has left the UK as a global outlier on its assessment of the deal - and something the UK's own politicians do not seem particularly thrilled by - saying it has raised questions over whether the UK is "open for business". Microsoft and Activision, of course, have also made their own feelings clear.

Microsoft has now lodged its formal appeal to the CMA, beginning what will be a lengthy process of seeking a fresh ruling.

As for Europe, Vestager's regulator seems comfortable with its conclusion.

"Our mission is... to find solutions that keep the game fair for all players," Vestager concluded, "working closely together with sister agencies as we do so. That is our Call of Duty."
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
FYI Vestager is as hard as they come, that woman would not hesitate a second to bring action about no matter what company.

God damn that ending sentence.

Also, was it known that Microsoft offered owners of Activision games a 10 year licence to have them streamed on no matter which cloud service? Massive if so.
 
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Elios83

Member
I don't see this getting terminated any time soon.
Both companies will ride it, until there is no more.

July will be an important moment.
Both companies can't just ride it waiting for years.
A new contract will have to be made with new conditions, so it's absolutely an open question what is going to happen.
They might simply disagree on finding new terms, Activision might try to escape with the 3 billions.
 
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feynoob

Member
July will be an important moment.
Both companies can't just ride it waiting for years.
A new contract will have to be made with new conditions, so it's absolutely an open question what is going to happen.
They might simply disagree on finding new terms, Activision might try to escape with the 3 billions.
Considering CMA is the only biggest obstacle, pursuing the deal is better option for both companies.

3b is pocket change, compared to the board reaping benefits from that 67b price tag share.
 
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