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Ahsoka |OT| Ezra's out there somewhere, and it's time to bring him home.
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
PaddyOCanager
Member
Episode 4 - well, this is podracing. I enjoyed it.
Getting the negative out of the way: holy shit, get a better dialogue writer Dave. Especially for the military scenes - just hire the writers from Andor, everything involving Hera and the Rebels is so fucking cringe. Also, every extensive conversation between Ahsoka and Sabine continues to grind the show to a halt and is embarrassingly bad. Thank god we're getting a break from that for awhile and hopefully permanently.
Ray Stevenson is carrying the show. Baylan is by far the most interesting character. There was obvious set-up for Sabine's decision in this episode, and it ended up being the best scene in the series so far. I hope Dave actually explores this relationship because this scene between Baylan and Sabine was infinitely better than any other interaction we've seen with her character. Baylan brings actual gravitas to the show, whereas Hera comes off as a cosplayer and Ahsoka puts the audience to sleep trying to be "stoic". I know I shouldn't get my hopes up but it would actually be interesting if Dave took Sabine down a dark path.
Beautifully shot episode, and the music continues to crush it. The initial action scenes were fine - watching Marrok, Shin, Ahsoka and Sabine fight again was boring as fuck though. You already blew that load previously, Dave - there are no stakes between them anymore so who cares? At least it didn't drag on forever. However, the fight between Ahsoka and Baylan was great - there is shared history between the two characters that actually made the fight and their dialogue interesting - FINALLY. Star Wars finally set up some stakes between two characters and gave us a payoff of potential consequence. Character motivations that were set up for the audience previously - however clumsily - came to fruition in this episode. My god, who knew basic storytelling could be done in this franchise anymore?
Episodes 1-3 should've been a single episode and this should've been episode 2. Unlike last week, this episode was worth watching. The bar is incredibly low but there was quality Star Wars in here, especially in the latter half. I'm in it to see Baylan and Thrawn. Dave's treatment of Baylan so far gives me hope for Thrawn.
Getting the negative out of the way: holy shit, get a better dialogue writer Dave. Especially for the military scenes - just hire the writers from Andor, everything involving Hera and the Rebels is so fucking cringe. Also, every extensive conversation between Ahsoka and Sabine continues to grind the show to a halt and is embarrassingly bad. Thank god we're getting a break from that for awhile and hopefully permanently.
Ray Stevenson is carrying the show. Baylan is by far the most interesting character. There was obvious set-up for Sabine's decision in this episode, and it ended up being the best scene in the series so far. I hope Dave actually explores this relationship because this scene between Baylan and Sabine was infinitely better than any other interaction we've seen with her character. Baylan brings actual gravitas to the show, whereas Hera comes off as a cosplayer and Ahsoka puts the audience to sleep trying to be "stoic". I know I shouldn't get my hopes up but it would actually be interesting if Dave took Sabine down a dark path.
Beautifully shot episode, and the music continues to crush it. The initial action scenes were fine - watching Marrok, Shin, Ahsoka and Sabine fight again was boring as fuck though. You already blew that load previously, Dave - there are no stakes between them anymore so who cares? At least it didn't drag on forever. However, the fight between Ahsoka and Baylan was great - there is shared history between the two characters that actually made the fight and their dialogue interesting - FINALLY. Star Wars finally set up some stakes between two characters and gave us a payoff of potential consequence. Character motivations that were set up for the audience previously - however clumsily - came to fruition in this episode. My god, who knew basic storytelling could be done in this franchise anymore?
Episodes 1-3 should've been a single episode and this should've been episode 2. Unlike last week, this episode was worth watching. The bar is incredibly low but there was quality Star Wars in here, especially in the latter half. I'm in it to see Baylan and Thrawn. Dave's treatment of Baylan so far gives me hope for Thrawn.
Toons
Member
There were stakes lol.... the stakes was stopping the map from being used in time. They were there to stall them. The episode makes it clear that they COULD have won so it isn't even forced stakes. The situation forced them to split up so ahsoka could get there on time, and then splitting up led to the outcome which forced Sabine into the exact choice she didn't want to make.
Its tight writing, and it also justifies the previous epsiode. Ahsoka and Sabine relationship was the crux of everything here working or not working, and ahsoka just wasn't able to reach Sabine in time, which directly leads to her decision here.
Solid work.
Personally I find the world between worlds thing to be fairly dumb of a plot element but im confident it will be used well here. Actually agree with you that the dialogue could be better in this series.
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PaddyOCanager
Member
All that is true but watching them fight again just wasn't interesting to me. Episodes 1-3 should've been a single episode, and this should've been their first face-off. This could've been a much stronger fight if the series was handled better, imo. I don't want to continue to belabor the point though, it is what it is and ultimately I'm happy with this episode.
I liked that Dave didn't give Sabine the "Force win button". When she fired the wrist rockets instead of Rey Palpatine'ing her way out of her situation that was great. I think Sabine's character is much more interesting now and I hope to see Dave do something cool with her, Shin and Baylan. Her choice this episode reflects Luke's in ESB and is a reminder of the heart of Star Wars. The dialogue between Sabine and Baylan really sold it as being more than just her making a "dumb decision". It fleshed out Baylan's character and made Sabine more sympathetic than she's been portrayed in the series so far. Solid work.
The world between worlds is just a huge question mark. I have no idea what Dave plans to do with it this time, but it's essentially the Star Wars equivalent of a "DC Flashpoint plot device" which could go either way. I know certain fans are clamoring for it to be the great retcon of the sequel trilogy but personally I think that'd be lame.
BlackTron
Member
I don't see it happening but if it did, it would almost get me back except they already blew their only shot with with Ford/Hamil/Fisher. Star Wars is forever tainted by that mess even if they "retcon" it.
PaddyOCanager
Member
That's the thing for me - retconning it doesn't change anything. The opportunity is lost forever and I'd rather Star Wars tell other, more interesting stories.
Toons
Member
Sabine using the wrist rockers was great. Shes almost certainly going to use the force at some point though. I'm glad they didn't do it here.
The sequels are def not getting retconned, but a lot of people are going to be clamoring for that and are going to be disappointed when that doesn't happen. Which is frustrating but some people view these things in that way now.
Im guessing this is anakin post ROTJ but I honestly don't know, I just don't see it making sense any other way
ManaByte
Gold Member
Yea they're retconning a trilogy they're releasing sequel movies to.
Overall I am enjoying the show but I can’t help but feel like I really don’t care about it at all. Like it’s fine and certainly better than some of the other recent Staw Wars offerings but I just don’t think I care any more. How fricking fast did Ashoka change into her space suit in this last episode. That’s some serious Jedi ability.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
I'll stick this out but this has been a very predictable show. The last 30 seconds of Ep 4 were the best part of it.
Yerd
Member
Because villains in this world are idiots. Written by people that apparently can't write smart villains. It's a wonder how they can handle what Thrawn is purported to be. I've only seen Rebels representation of him, no books.
Besides Baylan. I wouldn't call him smart, but pragmatic. He doesn't seem a simpleton like Shin. But, it remains to be seen what his end goal is. I wish there was a conversation during their duel.
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prinz_valium
Member
Getting better.
Couldn't get worse tho.
Couldn't get worse tho.
PaddyOCanager
Member
Shin has had 3 opportunities to kill Sabine and chose not to.
It's clearly a romance set-up, please pay attention.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
In keeping with normal kathleen kennedy trash where everyone has a possible romance angle, or can be redeemed
I'm actually depressed now thinking about it......i want wish.com Miley Cirus to get off'd sooner than later, and they likely won't at all. I sense a redemption angle coming....
Ammogeddon
Member
Quite enjoyed this episode. Baylan Skoll is proving himself to be the most interesting character so far. If he was planned to reappear in season 2 that’s a crying shame. Ray Stevenson was fucking awesome.
I could see the world between worlds being a bit divisive for people who haven’t followed the cartoons. Just have to see how it plays out.
I see Disney have pulled a Knights of Ren with Marrok. Loads of rumour and speculation only for him to be a basic bitch. Never trust Disney with the aesthetically cool looking characters. I actually think they’re trolling now. Though seeing them go in a puff of smoke makes wonder if they're some sort of Dathomir witchcraft.
I see Disney have pulled a Knights of Ren with Marrok. Loads of rumour and speculation only for him to be a basic bitch. Never trust Disney with the aesthetically cool looking characters. I actually think they’re trolling now. Though seeing them go in a puff of smoke makes wonder if they're some sort of Dathomir witchcraft.
PaddyOCanager
Member
It wouldn't be the same, but I think Liev Schreiber could take over the role. I know I'm kidding myself thinking Baylan survives this season, but one can dream.
Trunx81
Member
He was redeemed a bit this episode, after staring into the sky for the last few .. Really felt his potential wasted till today.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I think Baylan wants to resurrect the Jedi within the structure of Thrawn's potential Empire as something like the old EU Imperial Knights.
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
It would be nice if they set up the World Between Worlds to explain some kind of multiverse and in a way allow Legends to be canon. Like, Legends would be a different universe within the multiverse.
Of course I doubt they're going to go that route.
Of course I doubt they're going to go that route.
Son of Mortis pulled her to WBW to mess with her as Ahsoka is always protected by the daughter of Mortis. The Vader theme was a giveaway.
ManaByte
Gold Member
NekoFever
Member
Seriously, he’s aged pretty well and this is set after he’s dead anyway. I think most people could hand-wave the fact that a human got older.
Instead it’s cursed Anakin puppet time I guess.
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Minsc
Gold Member
Consensus among those who don't like it is there's a small chance you'll find episode 3 better than those (most seem to hate 3 just as much), and a decent chance you'll find episode 4 actually passable even if you hated 1-3. So probably if you give it 2 more shots (3 is like a half hour, so it goes fast) and still see very little I doubt it's worth continuing.
And with that I am choosing to unfollow this thread. I initially followed it because I was excited to watch the show and read other people who also were excited to watch it and enjoy it, but it seems this crowd is way too debbie downer for me. Everyone seems to just come here to shit on it.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
They are sort of comically bad. Like they forgot to speed up the footage of the actors doing their thing.
I honestly just don't care about the action stuff that much in Star Wars especially with Jedi's involved as it's all just sort of nonsensical. It's the writing and characters that make Star Wars stuff "fun" and this show everyone is a bit of a dud. The bad guys are Ok I guess.
See, in the old days they recognized a stretch of dull dialogue/exposition and would spice it up by setting it in a strip club, at a shooting range, in a garage, or whilst casually beating up someone.Tams lol "women talking"; it's bad dialogue it's not bad because it's women talking, unless you really just can't stand women that much
If you are shooting for a Bechdel Test high score, you gotta figure out how to frame it to make it more visually interesting.
Toons
Member
No, it's not a mystery, not really.
first is that she, like most SW villains is arrogant want to goad their opponent. She wanted to see if Sabine would actually pull it off and attempted to taunt her when she couldn't do it. Dark side users always do this.
The second is because the writing of the fight sequences is not intended to be about efficient tactics. Fight scenes are cop outs in writing, they are used to push character moments, excitement the audience or emphasize stakes. They last as long as you need them too and the outcome is entirely manufactured, but good ones have the illusion of balanced skill sets if the situation calls for it.
So it's not really a criticism that she doesn't immediately kill Sabine, because that's not who this character has been established to be. Shin as a character revels in the battle and if she wins, like most sith she doesn't just go for a quick kill.
At best this is a nitpick that glosses over dramatic writing.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The saber choreography is laughably bad.
Toons
Member
Discussing star wars is so headache inducing these days because folks will ignore all cool stuff and zero in on the most minute, passable inconsequential s***. Like... no one does this with any other thing they watch, and if they do, I don't know how those people enjoy watching ANYTHING.
Like its not just "people talking" when its establishing character relationships that actual influence characters decisions lol.
Here, the conversations show us the kind of relationship these two characters had that we didn't see in the interim. So when their goals differ, we know why it differs, and when Sabine makes the choice she does, we have precedent to call back on that. This is exactly what the show should be doing.
Tams
Member
But it is. Sorry, but I couldn't help but notice that all but one of the prominent characters is female.
And the topic of the dialogue is all rather feelsy/feminine.
Rather rude and presumptive of you to accuse me of not being able to 'stand women much'.
Toons
Member
So?
They're discussing the same shit all jedis and their students discuss. The jedi are all about feelings as it plays into their relationship with the force, thats like their entire source of strength.
You guys will say this but then when they write women like traditional male characters being hardasses and emotionless you same guys say that it's inauthentic. So which is it?
You're not really doing much to belay the other guys comments by going with a "discussing feelings is womanly" narrative. Thats such a wierd angle to take here. Luke beat the emperor with his feelings, appealing to his fathers feelings, not with "manly" strength.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Jedi were not about feelings, the Sith were. Jedi were about letting go of those feelings and trusting in the knowledge of the force, the Sith were all about using those feelings and emotions to tap into more powerful sides of it.
What a shitshow.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Which saber battle? Ahsoka vs Marrok is based on traditional Japanese kenjutsu/Kendo. Actually, so was Ahsoka vs Baylan. Shin vs Sabine was a high ranking student vs a rusty mid level student.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ok, and? The actors are not believable in contrast to how Hayden and Ewen were. There is a start contrast on the choreography/actors part.
Toons
Member
Jedi were not about feelings, the Sith were. Jedi were about letting go of those feelings and trusting in the knowledge of the force, the Sith were all about using those feelings and emotions to tap into more powerful sides of it.
What a shitshow.
This is incorrect.
The jedi were not simply suppressing feelings, that was never the idea. They would acknowledge them, but guide those feelings and let those feelings be balanced, which in turn grants them balance in the force, which grants them strength.
The sith, gice into their deepest wells of emotion and let the feelings guide them. They draw strength from the power of these emotions and the rage and fear that builds from it. They are not balanced, they tipped the scales all the way to one side.
The first thing the jedi teach is to be able to feel the connection between all things in the force, and in battle, to control one's emotions no matter rhe circumstances in order to win. We see this repeatedly in the PT era through Kenobi. He always had feelings, but he was exceptional at keeping them balanced and being in control of them. Even when Darth maul killed his master snd later the woman he loved, he remained collected.
Toons
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Lol, ok.
Yes, show the full scene and not a goofy low framerate gif. That fight shits all over anything Disney has done with lightsaber choreography since. Not only in the skill of the actors, but the musical score and emotions all the scenes invoked along with said score."Believable"
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SirTerry-T
Member
Seriously?!
In a discussion thread about a sci-fi show on a video game forum I can't be the only nerd that noticed Sabine was using a re-purposed Galaxy Invader machine as a special space gadget in episode 2.
In a discussion thread about a sci-fi show on a video game forum I can't be the only nerd that noticed Sabine was using a re-purposed Galaxy Invader machine as a special space gadget in episode 2.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You cited "it's women talking" as a negative and doubling down by claiming it's "feelsy/feminie." Not going to think I'm being rude with my comment.
Clearly you at the very least don't enjoy listening to women talk, that can be inferred by your comments.
Just own it or something lol
The dialog is so damn generic though it's hardly "Feelsy." Ahsoka has a lot less emotion than say, Qui-Gon.
And good lord you want to know who was "feelsy" as hell in Star Wars? Anakin. Far more than whats-her-name I can't even remember because she's so boring. But of course they are copying the Qui-Gon / Anakin storyline so far unsurprisingly with the angsty youthz doing badz. (of course they'll redeem her though, there's almost no change they won't)
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Toons
Member
Obi wan tells Luke in ROTJ that his feelings "do him well bur could also be used in service of the empire" and it should also be noted that he himself was governmed by feelings in the OT, believing that the only solution was to kill vader... and of course beign wrong about that, from a certain point of view.
NOW you guys care about context?
I actually enjoy that fight but even defending it id say its intentionally theatrical rather than believable.
I personally prefer these more targeted and samurai influenced maneuvers than the unnecessary twirling and flipping. The ones in ahsoka are much closer to the ESB and ROTJ battles, which i think carry more thematic weight than these dance like ones. I like the one in TPM with maul but they had an actual parkour artist who could deliver on the concept, it doesn't work as well when its two guys standing in one place spinning a lot.
Im not really gonna go farther than that because it's a matter of preference, but thats basically my rationale on it
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Don't "you guys" me like you're some sort of marketing shill that needs to defend this at all costs. You and I are having a direct conversation.
Slow the hell down in defending everything current year shits out and read WTF I said.
The actors made me believe they were wielding sabers. The actors (Ewan and Hayden) worked diligently to bring that believability that they were actual skilled swordsman to the big screen. This show's saber fights, the actors talent pales and is half assed in comparison and and stands out in contrast. Same thing for those shitty ass Boba Fett show fight scenes. 60 year old overweight man looked 60 year old slow and overweight. They should have sped it up in post a bit instead of the extras telegraphing like they were waiting for the punch or kicks to arrive. It looked worse than some fan-made films in those fight scenes.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Traditional Japanese swordfighting, particularly of the samurai bent, favors economy of motion than "action" ... Ahsoka was traditional Samurai in her movements.
The flash stuff is more visually appealing but not more "realistic" than the traditional Samurai swordsmanship Ahsoka and Baylan were doing. In fact, Ahsoka was trying to teach Sabine traditional sword techniques in episode 3. The whole setting looked like a traditional Japanese dojo.
The flash stuff is more visually appealing but not more "realistic" than the traditional Samurai swordsmanship Ahsoka and Baylan were doing. In fact, Ahsoka was trying to teach Sabine traditional sword techniques in episode 3. The whole setting looked like a traditional Japanese dojo.