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Xbox LIVE Indie Games - The July 2011 Thread
- Thread starter toythatkills
- Start date
Trailer for BlastaRock! has gone out.
Will cost 80 points in late August
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srOd_zy3hD0&feature=player_embedded
The title makes me sound Jamaican.
Will cost 80 points in late August
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srOd_zy3hD0&feature=player_embedded
The title makes me sound Jamaican.
toythatkills
Member
Yeah, that looks awesome. I'm not convinced "deficient" works in place of "insufficient" but I'll let it pass!robotnjik said:
That asteroids game looks... bad. So many points where he shoots asteroids and nothing happens. Asteroids don't have hit points.
DaveVoyles
Member
Warm Machine said:
Agreed!
IndieJones
Member
I've only played Lootfest for about 20 minutes, but it seems to have a couple of fundamental flaws:
1. There's no loot; you get coins. You only use coins to buy a couple of different levels of sword. I guess that's fine, but for a game called "Lootfest", I was hoping there would be more loot, like weapons drops or, well, anything.
2.) You can't save your game, so you have to beat it in one sitting. That's not really a problem because it's so short, but there's no replay value whatsoever. There's nothing new to collect. There is literally no reason to play this game more than once.
1. There's no loot; you get coins. You only use coins to buy a couple of different levels of sword. I guess that's fine, but for a game called "Lootfest", I was hoping there would be more loot, like weapons drops or, well, anything.
2.) You can't save your game, so you have to beat it in one sitting. That's not really a problem because it's so short, but there's no replay value whatsoever. There's nothing new to collect. There is literally no reason to play this game more than once.
OldmanAndroid
Member
damn, the old $1 vs $3 debate again.....so much uncertainty.
We're about to put our 2 year project (Doc Logic) up for peer review, hopefully tomorrow. The final version is in playtest right now if anyone wants to check it. We decided long ago (after reading the long debate on the app hub forums) to sell for 80msp, even though our game has quite a bit of content. 8 unique stages, boss fight, normal and hard mode, music from 8bit weapon.
It seems that falling off the top downloads list is the argument against the 240msp price point. Also, theres this quote from the other thread:
Zeboyd Games is one of the most visible developers on the platform, developing charming retro-style RPGs like Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu Saves the World. The former managed to sell around 50,000 copies for $1 each, while the latter moved a little more than 16,000 copies at $3 apiece.
"The sales for Cthulhu Saves the World were particularly disappointingwe put a lot of heart and soul into the game over a significantly longer period of development time and yet that extra effort didn't result in a similar increase in revenue."
Even though our game has an above-average amount of content, I still feel uneasy about selling for anything more than $1. Also, this is our first game (that we've finished....actually the 4th we started).
We need a 160msp tier!
We're about to put our 2 year project (Doc Logic) up for peer review, hopefully tomorrow. The final version is in playtest right now if anyone wants to check it. We decided long ago (after reading the long debate on the app hub forums) to sell for 80msp, even though our game has quite a bit of content. 8 unique stages, boss fight, normal and hard mode, music from 8bit weapon.
It seems that falling off the top downloads list is the argument against the 240msp price point. Also, theres this quote from the other thread:
Zeboyd Games is one of the most visible developers on the platform, developing charming retro-style RPGs like Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu Saves the World. The former managed to sell around 50,000 copies for $1 each, while the latter moved a little more than 16,000 copies at $3 apiece.
"The sales for Cthulhu Saves the World were particularly disappointingwe put a lot of heart and soul into the game over a significantly longer period of development time and yet that extra effort didn't result in a similar increase in revenue."
Even though our game has an above-average amount of content, I still feel uneasy about selling for anything more than $1. Also, this is our first game (that we've finished....actually the 4th we started).
We need a 160msp tier!
Emperor Bohe
Member
toythatkills said:
Both of those games look amazing. I'll check them out
Trumpets
Member
I'm going to have the same dilemma with the new Apple Jack - while it will be comfortably worth 240 msp will it sell at that price? Given the amount of press Cthulhu got even before its release, for it to sell so many fewer copies is a worry.
Just adding a 160 msp tier would help a bit, but the cat's out the bag now and people are accustomed to only paying 65p/$1. Personally I'd probably just remove the 80 point option altogether and have 160 as the lowest, but then I have zero business acumen.
Just adding a 160 msp tier would help a bit, but the cat's out the bag now and people are accustomed to only paying 65p/$1. Personally I'd probably just remove the 80 point option altogether and have 160 as the lowest, but then I have zero business acumen.
OldmanAndroid said:
The "above than average" content is what should ease the sale. It's not a criteria to raise the price point. You can add a dozen of game modes, hours of gameplay ... it's still the same game.
Zeboyd tried a higher price point because he wanted to see if he could make a living on XBLIG (he already had the will to sell his games on PC though). Noone was fooled : his second game looks exactly like the first one.
I don't mean to start an argument about which is better but really meant that I'm definitely leaning towards buying TIC Part 1 at 240 pts which is kind of a testament that games don't need to all be 80 points.
I think for mobile game stores (Android, iOS, WP7) the following rule of thumb applies, from most buying habits I've seen:
$1: Might play 30 mins to 3 hours and never again, somewhat gimmicky and simplistic is fine, might not be your favorite genre, but really expectations are not so super high. When I see a price DROPS to this, I will go out of my way to buy it if it's normally a $5 game.
$3 to $5: Probably expect a campaign level single player experience or stellar multiplayer at this price. If you have nothing to show me that proves it's worth the money, I will probably skip unless I have peer pressure to buy it (word of mouth, friends playing it, etc). I have however bought many games at this price on iOS, it's not impossible.
More than $5: Impeccable levels of polish, innovation and lots of word of mouth are givens.
It's kind of sad that people will pay $19 for a garbage retail disc game but have to proven the game was made by savants to pay more than $5 for an indie game, but I feel that's the reality of current market. I feel Steam users are somehow a little bit friendlier than average to indies in a philanthropic way but then again people are getting so used to sales that the prices people will pay for are going to be driven down to XBLIG levels at this rate.
Maybe they could add a Recently Reduced section to enable some sort of quasi fire sales? Unfortunately devs aren't allowed to change prices as frequently as App Store games can change.
I think for mobile game stores (Android, iOS, WP7) the following rule of thumb applies, from most buying habits I've seen:
$1: Might play 30 mins to 3 hours and never again, somewhat gimmicky and simplistic is fine, might not be your favorite genre, but really expectations are not so super high. When I see a price DROPS to this, I will go out of my way to buy it if it's normally a $5 game.
$3 to $5: Probably expect a campaign level single player experience or stellar multiplayer at this price. If you have nothing to show me that proves it's worth the money, I will probably skip unless I have peer pressure to buy it (word of mouth, friends playing it, etc). I have however bought many games at this price on iOS, it's not impossible.
More than $5: Impeccable levels of polish, innovation and lots of word of mouth are givens.
It's kind of sad that people will pay $19 for a garbage retail disc game but have to proven the game was made by savants to pay more than $5 for an indie game, but I feel that's the reality of current market. I feel Steam users are somehow a little bit friendlier than average to indies in a philanthropic way but then again people are getting so used to sales that the prices people will pay for are going to be driven down to XBLIG levels at this rate.
Maybe they could add a Recently Reduced section to enable some sort of quasi fire sales? Unfortunately devs aren't allowed to change prices as frequently as App Store games can change.
It might sound silly I think there should be a 3 tier system still but 400pts is always going to cause issues, as it currently stands, as that puts XBLIG games in the same field as some XBLA games that may have leaderboards and achievements which is another debate altogether.
I think maybe 100,250 and 400 pts should be the limits. Some developers have converted free pc games and charged for them on XBLIG so maybe they should be in the lower tier, where as games with huge amount of content and quality maybe at the higher tier. Don't forget size also dictates the price of some of the games too. A game has to seriously be good for me to bite at 400pts from the Indie Marketplace.
This brings me on to a question about Radiangames games. Which of the games that are now 400pts would you pay that for? Previously I'd recommend all of them, at least to try, but now a fair few I think are not worth that and wanted to know what others think.
Anyway I have done a quick round-up of some recent releases
http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11888&start=380
I think maybe 100,250 and 400 pts should be the limits. Some developers have converted free pc games and charged for them on XBLIG so maybe they should be in the lower tier, where as games with huge amount of content and quality maybe at the higher tier. Don't forget size also dictates the price of some of the games too. A game has to seriously be good for me to bite at 400pts from the Indie Marketplace.
This brings me on to a question about Radiangames games. Which of the games that are now 400pts would you pay that for? Previously I'd recommend all of them, at least to try, but now a fair few I think are not worth that and wanted to know what others think.
Anyway I have done a quick round-up of some recent releases
http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11888&start=380
toythatkills
Member
I'd pay 400 for Fluid if it had proper leaderboards...
Hey I didn't know about that thread, it's cool to see other forums picking up on XBLIG stuff. Nice job categorizing them into genres too.
Believe it or not Something Awful actually has a thread about XBLIG games, so does Penny Arcade and some other places. It would be cool to add links to sites/other forums in the original posts but I'm not sure if it's allowed by TOU here.
The one game in particular I'm on the fence with is Total Forge, I'm hearing it has Miner Dig Deep upgrade elements so it sounds like it might be fun. Really wish more people here (or anywhere) played these games and described their feelings about them.
Believe it or not Something Awful actually has a thread about XBLIG games, so does Penny Arcade and some other places. It would be cool to add links to sites/other forums in the original posts but I'm not sure if it's allowed by TOU here.
The one game in particular I'm on the fence with is Total Forge, I'm hearing it has Miner Dig Deep upgrade elements so it sounds like it might be fun. Really wish more people here (or anywhere) played these games and described their feelings about them.
toythatkills
Member
If you've got any interest in the genre at all you should be either playing Minecraft, or waiting for Minecraft
toythatkills said:
And there lies the problem.
I try to link to places in the thread I run but this one is awkward as it's a monthly one. I am going to add a link to this thread at the top of page 1 and will change it when you bring out a new monthly one. As we all say we are here for the XBLIG games not in competition. I have seen so many sites come out all guns blazing looking really polished only to die off over the years. Indienerds was a prime example, looked a promising site but nothing for months. I think Kobun's site has gone too.
Recommending games is a difficult one as they may not necessarily be must buys, but games you should maybe give a trial at least, as we all have different game tastes.
TTK have you covered Along Came a Spider in one that you might have missed?
toythatkills
Member
Nah, not yet. I own it though, so it may well turn up in futurequpe1975 said:
Even my blog seems kinda pointless. The only people that seem to read XBLIG blogs are the people that browse the marketplace anyway. Preaching to the converted.
I honestly think posting to YouTube/streaming on Justin.tv would be more effective evangelism than a blog (and posting to this thread at every possible moment 
), especially for games that are fun to watch people play like ZP2KX
I also see some guys on Twitter working very hard to pimp XBLIG - MasterBlud and his cohorts at VVGTV http://vvgtv.com/ Those guys need to stream the best games and get people to watch somehow. The service has its diehard fans here and there, Xbox Live has millions and millions of people playing games, just need to somehow energize everyone about the best games. Here's hoping the Summer Uprising is a big success.
), especially for games that are fun to watch people play like ZP2KXI also see some guys on Twitter working very hard to pimp XBLIG - MasterBlud and his cohorts at VVGTV http://vvgtv.com/ Those guys need to stream the best games and get people to watch somehow. The service has its diehard fans here and there, Xbox Live has millions and millions of people playing games, just need to somehow energize everyone about the best games. Here's hoping the Summer Uprising is a big success.
toythatkills
Member
What it really needs is for IGN or Gamespot or OXM or someone to have dedicated XBLIG coverage, and have it mixed in with all the other 360 news instead of squirrelled away somewhere. That way everyone looking at the 360 section on IGN would be getting XBLIG coverage as well as everything else.
Gaspode_T said:I honestly think posting to YouTube/streaming on Justin.tv would be more effective evangelism than a blog (and posting to this thread at every possible moment
I also see some guys on Twitter working very hard to pimp XBLIG - MasterBlud and his cohorts at VVGTV http://vvgtv.com/ Those guys need to stream the best games and get people to watch somehow. The service has its diehard fans here and there, Xbox Live has millions and millions of people playing games, just need to somehow energize everyone about the best games. Here's hoping the Summer Uprising is a big success.
Unfortunately XBLIG is not available to a lot of countries and that is another issue.
The best thing would be a good round-up made available on the dashboard every week. Most of the XBLA and Commercial releases do not need the same publicity.
I've yet to try out some of this games but unfortunately I' don't have the spare time.
But I really have to try some games because I'm working for the last 9 months (wow has been this long?) on a XBL Indie game (wich I can't publish because this is not available in my coutry, ups) and I should compare my work with the average work from others.
But i've seen screenshots from past months that made me think : "wow, this game looks awsome".
But I really have to try some games because I'm working for the last 9 months (wow has been this long?) on a XBL Indie game (wich I can't publish because this is not available in my coutry, ups) and I should compare my work with the average work from others.
But i've seen screenshots from past months that made me think : "wow, this game looks awsome".
toythatkills
Member
Continuing the press's obsession with pretending that the Xbox LIVE Indie Games service is all shit by only covering the crap so they can go "LOL, LOOK HOW CRAP IT IS," apparently GamesTM in the UK have got a feature this month looking at... Silver Dollar Games.
I'm serious.
If anyone picks this up, do post the jist here.
Would have been brilliant if GamesTM had actually, you know, looked at all the good games instead and given coverage to games that deserved them, but fuck 'em.
(I take back any vitriol if it turns out to be a six-page love in aimed solely at Blow.)
I'm serious.
If anyone picks this up, do post the jist here.
Would have been brilliant if GamesTM had actually, you know, looked at all the good games instead and given coverage to games that deserved them, but fuck 'em.
(I take back any vitriol if it turns out to be a six-page love in aimed solely at Blow.)
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Recently purchased PLATformance, a really fun game! I need to go back and discover the other games...
toythatkills
Member
I'm not sure, I only know that the feature exists, not what it contains beyond "a look at the games of Silver Dollar" or something.Kafel said:
Googling it also reveals that if you email Silver Dollar a game idea, they'll probably make it for you if it's got a stupid title. That is literally true.
toythatkills
Member
I don't think it fails the evil checklist. Go for it. You'll get 10% of the profits for the first three months, and who needs that pesky soul anyway? The devil can have it if he wants.Kafel said:
done
I hope the filthy lurkers didn't steal my idea.
*
Another interesting concept now with a Carmageddon entirely coded with only two fingers :
http://catalog.create.msdn.com/en-U...d=c06fd252-2bd5-46db-a988-ae26cc54033d&type=2
I hope the filthy lurkers didn't steal my idea.
*
Another interesting concept now with a Carmageddon entirely coded with only two fingers :
http://catalog.create.msdn.com/en-U...d=c06fd252-2bd5-46db-a988-ae26cc54033d&type=2
Warm Machine
Member
qupe1975 said:
I personally would have bought Crossfire 1 and Ballistic at 400pts.
HadesGigas
Member
A new retro-rpg with ridiculous premise emerges. Author Adventure: Tale of the Tainted Tomes :
Official Blog
RPG Gamer Coverage
Trailer
Only thing that bugs me is the non-retro fonts. Doesn't mesh with the rest of the game.
Oh, also that they seem to have taken some liberties with Jane Austen's appearance. Maybe that's some sort of intentional joke about inaccuracies of 8-bit games based on real life licenses?
Official Blog
RPG Gamer Coverage
Trailer
Only thing that bugs me is the non-retro fonts. Doesn't mesh with the rest of the game.
Oh, also that they seem to have taken some liberties with Jane Austen's appearance. Maybe that's some sort of intentional joke about inaccuracies of 8-bit games based on real life licenses?
toythatkills
Member
Zeouterlimits
Member
Oooo. Been an interesting few days reading this and ultimately seeing the cycle of XBLIG news.toythatkills said:
Only had time to try two games last night:
Topochopper - I've heard this mentioned here, basically you fly around the world globe in a helicopter trying to find a city (a red dot appears when you get close to it) before time runs out. There are 4700 cities in the full game. If you can't find it there are a limited amount of "hints" and speed boosts, seems pretty well made and I like the educational aspect...I was getting most of them without any effort and suddenly some city name appears I've never heard of so you think "WTF??? I don't even know what continent this is on!" and kind of panic...The only negative is that when you find the city, you get points and that's it...you just get your next goal and have to start flying towards that. I kind of wish it would bring up a little info window about the city, screenshots, etc even if they're just grabbed from Wikipedia. For 80 pts might be enough to have some fun with, maybe good for kids. Apparently also on WP7 according to splash screen that comes up when you start it.
Beyond - Bought this one. This game is super "chill" where a crow just flies across the screen and you have to press a button to drop a box, your goal is to stack up the boxes above a line...it starts out super easy but by "Grade C" gets a little bit harder because wind kicks in and then more and more power ups/traps/things with weird shapes start appearing. I feel like the dev put a lot of love into it, some people might find it boring as it starts off a slow pace but I think it is truly sort of a relaxing little game to play. Really makes more sense on mobile than XBLIG though.
Topochopper - I've heard this mentioned here, basically you fly around the world globe in a helicopter trying to find a city (a red dot appears when you get close to it) before time runs out. There are 4700 cities in the full game. If you can't find it there are a limited amount of "hints" and speed boosts, seems pretty well made and I like the educational aspect...I was getting most of them without any effort and suddenly some city name appears I've never heard of so you think "WTF??? I don't even know what continent this is on!" and kind of panic...The only negative is that when you find the city, you get points and that's it...you just get your next goal and have to start flying towards that. I kind of wish it would bring up a little info window about the city, screenshots, etc even if they're just grabbed from Wikipedia. For 80 pts might be enough to have some fun with, maybe good for kids. Apparently also on WP7 according to splash screen that comes up when you start it.
Beyond - Bought this one. This game is super "chill" where a crow just flies across the screen and you have to press a button to drop a box, your goal is to stack up the boxes above a line...it starts out super easy but by "Grade C" gets a little bit harder because wind kicks in and then more and more power ups/traps/things with weird shapes start appearing. I feel like the dev put a lot of love into it, some people might find it boring as it starts off a slow pace but I think it is truly sort of a relaxing little game to play. Really makes more sense on mobile than XBLIG though.
toythatkills
Member
The problem with Topochopper is that Globe Clicker is about a million times better at doing a similar thing. It looks nicer, plays nicer, has a nicer way of scoring you, etc. If you like Topochopper, you should definitely give Globe Clicker a go.Gaspode_T said:
Yeah, just remember it takes like 30 mins for the game to get any difficult at all
I'm still playing through the bunch of games I downloaded the other night...
I picked up two more games tonight (bought them), 80 pts each...whittling down my Summer of Arcade points little by little.
Kung Fu Fight: I heard this was very good and it lives up to the hype. It's an endless runner game but done in a very good, I mean extremely good fashion. Some people might find it too hard but since it has pretty frequent checkpoints you can progress without too much trouble. It does start to get pretty darn difficulty after about 2000 meters on Normal difficult - starts throwing stuff straight out of Prince of Persia at you. The game has humor and charm, variety (it even starts raining with lightning and sound effects) and some sort of story/last boss it seems like. It also has one of the better implementations of 'fake achievements' i've seen. Pretty much a must buy if you like the idea of a karate game where you are running non stop and have to kick pole axe wielding guys in the face.
Visati: This is the cube/gravity manipuating game mentioned above. I like it, it doesn't get challenging until about Level 11 but the music changes and it turns to night, I like the atmosphere and graphics. LB and RB nudge the blocks one right or one left, LT and RT rotate, and up/down on d-pad flip the screen. Just with those controls and a limited number of moves it starts to get tricky to clear the screen. If you like puzzlers check this one out. Two person team did the game it seems like from glancing at the credits.
I'm still playing through the bunch of games I downloaded the other night...
I picked up two more games tonight (bought them), 80 pts each...whittling down my Summer of Arcade points little by little.
Kung Fu Fight: I heard this was very good and it lives up to the hype. It's an endless runner game but done in a very good, I mean extremely good fashion. Some people might find it too hard but since it has pretty frequent checkpoints you can progress without too much trouble. It does start to get pretty darn difficulty after about 2000 meters on Normal difficult - starts throwing stuff straight out of Prince of Persia at you. The game has humor and charm, variety (it even starts raining with lightning and sound effects) and some sort of story/last boss it seems like. It also has one of the better implementations of 'fake achievements' i've seen. Pretty much a must buy if you like the idea of a karate game where you are running non stop and have to kick pole axe wielding guys in the face.
Visati: This is the cube/gravity manipuating game mentioned above. I like it, it doesn't get challenging until about Level 11 but the music changes and it turns to night, I like the atmosphere and graphics. LB and RB nudge the blocks one right or one left, LT and RT rotate, and up/down on d-pad flip the screen. Just with those controls and a limited number of moves it starts to get tricky to clear the screen. If you like puzzlers check this one out. Two person team did the game it seems like from glancing at the credits.
SmallCaveGames
Neo Member
I demoed "How to Get Girls," went out for drinks, and ended up banging 8 chicks at once. Highly recommend. Just the demo though - save the dollar for the bartender.
I think that one is now #3 or #4 on US best selling list. All they needed to do was make a game out of answering the questions and it wouldn't have seemed so sleezy of a thing.
New "Kotaku's Favorites" recommendations are up, includes Lair of the Evildoer, TIC: Part 1, The Angry Hand of God, etc.
New "Kotaku's Favorites" recommendations are up, includes Lair of the Evildoer, TIC: Part 1, The Angry Hand of God, etc.
New screen from "Proj5" :
*
Interview about Blocks That Matter :
http://www.armlessoctopus.com/2011/...ing-submarine-talks-about-blocks-that-matter/
*
If you've missed it, Formula GP trailer :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mg1czlQK1I&feature=player_embedded
26 circuits
game modes (Pratice, Quick Race, Complete Weekend Race, and Season)
19 CPU drivers
XBOX Live
editor to personalize drivers and teams
*
Interview about Blocks That Matter :
http://www.armlessoctopus.com/2011/...ing-submarine-talks-about-blocks-that-matter/
*
If you've missed it, Formula GP trailer :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mg1czlQK1I&feature=player_embedded
26 circuits
game modes (Pratice, Quick Race, Complete Weekend Race, and Season)
19 CPU drivers
XBOX Live
editor to personalize drivers and teams
toythatkills
Member
Holy crap.Kafel said: