Sigh, but we fear its because they are underpowered as well
affordable consoles that don't melt themselves and kill dozens of companies would be okay with me.
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Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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affordable consoles that don't melt themselves and kill dozens of companies would be okay with me.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
But you don't have to be a Wii U hater/lover to speculate either way.
those were the rules agreed upon by the committee in 2008.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I doubt the next Xbox is hitting this year. It's not impossible, but that's a really short runway. Launch games will be few, and/or buggy/lacking in features.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
2-3x doesn't seem like BS. There could still be some changes but so far it sounds pretty accurate based on what we know.
We won't know for sure until we see the final hardware but that's another story.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
You joker, you.
In some regards, but not all. 2 - 3 x power isn't enough to make a vast jump visually. Previous generations have all been closer to 10x jumps and even then, the first gen games don't do the machines justice.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a huge problem with that.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
So... like the 360 then?
If the WiiU is going to be 3x more "powerful" than the PS360, how much more powerful does that make it from the Wii?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
My hope is Microsoft has learnt from its mistakes. And Sony from theirs. Who wants constantly overheating consoles and $599 pricepoints?
Ooooh its a big fucking huge leap.
Indeed it will be.
So people upgrading from Wii - WiiU (of which there will be plenty who don't have a PS360) will notice a HUGE (probably biggest gen leap of all time?????) difference?
I used to think including the Wii system board as a SoC in the Wii U was plausible (which would be for emulation of the GPU more than the CPU), but that chip is not mentioned or indicated at all by developers. If it were to have a function other than just backwards compatibility, such as being used as a system chip or the GPU could be used to drive the tablet screen, developers would probably have used it by now. If Nintendo doesn't intend to use it for other things than backwards compatibility, it's a pretty bad use of silicon and space in the box to use a chip like that.
It would be quite difficult to get emulation right on the Wii U. It might even be harder than Xbox 1 to Xbox 360 because nearly all games used the DirectX abstraction layer on both systems (that''s me guessing though). It might be hard for Nintendo to emulate close-to-metal games like Rogue Squadron. Not impossible, but quite hard to get right.
It would be quite difficult to get emulation right on the Wii U. It might even be harder than Xbox 1 to Xbox 360 because nearly all games used the DirectX abstraction layer on both systems (that''s me guessing though). It might be hard for Nintendo to emulate close-to-metal games like Rogue Squadron. Not impossible, but quite hard to get right.
In raw computation power the chip in the devkit is 287x more powerful than the Wii. In others stuff that matters it's about 20 times as powerful. All raw perfomance figures, though.
If the Wii existed in a vacuum, I would agree...but even if someone hasn't owned an HD Twin, they know what they were capable of and this will not be considered the biggest leap of all time. Sure, from one machine to the next it is, but not when you keep the whole generation in perspective.
Portugeezer
Member
A lot because Wii was very weak.
specialguy
Banned
It's worth noting that 720P is ~3X the pixels of 480P.
I think a lot of the jump this gen was sucked up by that. Such that the jump would have been much greater (of course) at 480P. And yet it was still a very impressive jump graphically when all was said and done, despite the caveat. And no doubt remaining at 480P helps the Wii not look nearly as bad compared to PS360 as it would if it tried to do 720P.
A lot of the power of this gen compared to last was sucked up just by the rise in resolution.
If next gen shoots for 1080P it's only a 2X pixel increase.
Anyways just stuff to keep in mind when dealing with power/graphics multiples.
I think a lot of the jump this gen was sucked up by that. Such that the jump would have been much greater (of course) at 480P. And yet it was still a very impressive jump graphically when all was said and done, despite the caveat. And no doubt remaining at 480P helps the Wii not look nearly as bad compared to PS360 as it would if it tried to do 720P.
A lot of the power of this gen compared to last was sucked up just by the rise in resolution.
If next gen shoots for 1080P it's only a 2X pixel increase.
Anyways just stuff to keep in mind when dealing with power/graphics multiples.
I'm playing Skyward Sword...man the difference in graphics from that, or Twilight Princess to their demo is fucking astounding. Seriously, TP in particular had some atrocious texturing. ATROCIOUS.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I would say around 20x. At least.
So does SS. Neither is really head and shoulders over the other. In fact, in Dolphin I give the edge to TP. Gorgeous art style, character design, and architectural design.
I prefer TP's poly models and architecture, but the water color style makes what are probably identical textures technically (in terms of resolution) far more tolerable and actually enjoyable. TP simply has ugly textures all all around.
Dreamwriter
Member
The Zodiac's analogue stick felt great for its time, when used with games designed for analogue controls. But in part because its electronics were so thin, it wasn't very reliable - there were lots of hardware failures, especially in early units. And it didn't have as much "throw" as the 3DS Circle Pad - it didn't move as far in any direction, so wasn't as sensitive. And lastly, the 3DS CirclePad actually works great as a four-directional controller for some reason, while the Zodiac's stick didn't.
Would the above analog controller be a better solution than the slide pads? Has anyone used it and would like to comment?
The more I hear about the slide pad, the more I dislike it (and it'll be yet one more thing for detractors to complain about Nintendo's new hardware as they often have in the past).
And yes, I have used the 3DS slide pad and it is absolute garbage. Much, much prefer the D-pad on handhelds due to the limited ergonomics of a handheld device.
The Wii's CPU is probably even overkill for an OS, to be honest, and having a multi-CPU design, especially with different clock rates, sounds like a bit of a frankenstein architecture compared to what Nintendo should be doing, which is keeping the architecture of the machine as simple as possible.
Reading up on the PS1 and PS2s CPUs, they're actually more similar than I thought. I'm still under the impression that they're not strictly code compatible, though.
On the XBox360 the main issue was emulating the CPU. Trying to emulate an Intel x86 CPU on an IBM Power Architecture CPU or vice versa is incredibly computationally intensive; just look at modern Intel processors choke on emulating the Wii's comparatively weedy PPC CPU in Dolphin. On the Wii U if there is a problem with emulation it'll be on the GPU side of things, as the TEV engine the Wii uses is very different from the shaders used in modern GPUs. In theory I suppose they could implement the Wii's TEV hardware on the GPU purely for BC sake, but I don't know what implications emulation would have if they go that route. Blu would be the obvious person to comment on the feasibility of that.
Oh, and Nintendo's been using the OpenGL since at least the Gamecube days (and possibly even the N64?) and are virtually guaranteed to use it for the Wii U, so the API won't be a problem outside specific extensions for the TEVs.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
That was my biggest qualm with this past 'HD' gen - instead of getting much smarter pixels, we just got more of them. But one of the players had HD TVs to sell, the second one never missed a marketing arms race, and the third one had oceans to swim over. So we ended up with a generation of one beefed-up last-gen machine and two machines that were very potent for sub-HD alas had to compete in an upper class at the edge of their abilities. Technologically, that passing gen was a mess.
Perhaps nintendo did the right thing by waiting out on the silicon tech to catch up with the consumer's expectations before going HD. PS360 "up"-ports aside, I'll be absolutely content if WiiU steadily delivers content at the level of the E3 tech demos.
Indeed. I think the bird demo is very under-appreciated as a measure of what we can expect from Wii games. Even on highly compressed YouTube videos, it's a noticeable notch up from PS360 capabilities, and the fact that it was running on very early hardware makes it all the more impressive.
You think this "tech demo" can't be achieved by ps360? I'm not impressed at all tbh.
AceBandage
Banned
The 360 couldn't even run the title screen.
Are we looking at the same demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Nsa06KRLo&list=FLpqUJMMud4istgnPhNKpgfQ&index=8&feature=plpp_video
Considering all the displacement mapped and self shadowed moss, it probably really couldn't.
I'm confident either can't because... the bird demo could also switch to the uPad. PS360 does have those
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, about every other page of the dolphin thread tries to explain why, too. it's heartbreaking and maddening at the same time.
much more reigned in, and id bet on a lot of this i guess, but god i mostly just want # 4.
this, this, this.
I'm confident either can't because... the bird demo could also switch to the uPad. PS360 does have those
Hehe, good point XD
AceBandage
Banned
Yes, sadly upscalling Wii games like Dolphin on the U will not be possible.
It's just not gonna happen.
It's just not gonna happen.
AceBandage
Banned
As long as it targets a rock steady 60FPS as well, then no one will complain.
specialguy
Banned
It feels like sometime soon we might actually learn more...it's 7 months since E3 and only 5 until next E3...
Maybe GDC, stuff will leak?
Maybe GDC, stuff will leak?
AceBandage
Banned
Reggie confirmed we'd hear more about the Wii U before E3 (though not a full unveiling).
And GDC seems likely.
And GDC seems likely.
He'll probably tell us how much the retail unit will weigh. We will then try to guess if that's enough to have advanced innards or not. "OMG ITS TOO LIGHT", "STFU ITS JUST HEAVY ENOUGH".
LOL. This may very well be a possibility!
IrishNinja
Member
dammit man GET OUT OF MY HEAD
aside: playing though Metroid Prime Trilogy, hot damn am i ready for Retro to return to this franchise.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Give me leaks! Leak all the info!
AceBandage
Banned
Wii U makes it all come full circle now. :lol
Meanwhile, playing the bullet point guessing game:
- $350 max.
- Well balanced system design; all parts considered will be comparable to a system built in late 2009 with a 2010 IBM Power processor, maybe a surprise or two to be revealed with a teardown
- September
- NSMBU, Pikmin 3 & a surprise 3rd First Party game (Retro probably) will be there at launch with releases steadily padded out through the first two weeks (Think GCN launch to SSBM)
Why exactly ? Hoping to see Wind Waker at 1080p is one of the reasons why I am hyped for WiiU. Of course, I know that Reggie said that the WiiU won't upscale previous-gen games but I guess that, inbetween, we saw a huge price drop for DS and an overall wake-up on Nintendo's side regarding the customer-focused approach.
So yes, I want my 1080p Wind Waker Nintendo. Or no money. And fuck you if you don't agree.
AceBandage
Banned
Upscalling the way Dolphin does requires an emulator for every single game ever made.
It's just not going to happen.
It may run the games at a higher resolution, but it won't actually make them look better.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The main thing with Zelda, I'm hoping for anyway, is utilising all those extra hardware resources to make more detailed and intricate game worlds. Miyamoto's original vision for Ocarina of Time could actually come to fruition.
On a completely random note, and this is going to come across dickish and ignorant, but I'm a wee bit surprised the Wii U is using 25GB disks. It makes me happy, but given the 360's success I totally wouldn't have been surprised to see them cheap out and stick with DVDs.
AceBandage
Banned
Yeah, Nintendo using BluRay tech is pretty out of no where.
Makes me hopeful for the rest of the system, as well.
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