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[teh_pwn]

It's not the nitrates themselves, it's the derivative nitrosamines that are more implicated in GI cancers. And I'm not sure why you mention blood pressure, since that really doesn't have any correlation that I know of with GI tumorigenesis.

Yeah, my post was too short. What I linked to talks about how the evidence about cancer isn't as damning as originally thought and how there are health benefits to nitrites that are the result of dietary nitrate. And you are correct about nitrosamines. Stephan goes over that.

Anyway I'm against creating a boogeyman with animal products when it's probably a dead end. Not useful advice. Really people should avoid junk food, packaged food, fast food, etc. At least for people that cannot seem to control appetite. I mean just look at the food porn going on in this thread right now. I don't think normal food causes this sort of infatuation.

 

[Damon Bennet]

What's wrong with animal products and what's wrong with my statement?

Posting the equivalent of "omgz da babies" as a reply is pretty childish.

eating animal products only kills the planet, but whatevs, amirite.
oh, and you eat stuff from an animal corpse. kinda disgusting if you think about it.
i believe that in two hundred years from now eating animals will be seen as some strang relict from a less civilised society.

 

[water_wendi]

im surprised that lecture about sugar with the neurosurgeon hasnt been posted yet.

 

[Router]

Fuck. Just eat healthy and get half an hours exercise a day. How hard is that for everyone to do?

 

[AdventureRacing]

Fuck. Just eat healthy and get half an hours exercise a day. How hard is that for everyone to do?

Exercise half an hour a day is no problem. Eating healthy is the thing most people can't do. Not only do most people not know what to eat but it's very easy to fall back into bad habits.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Why can't you just drink V8 and pure fruit juice from the store? All that juicing stuff sounds like a ton of work

 

[triplestation]

Exercise half an hour a day is no problem. Eating healthy is the thing most people can't do. Not only do most people not know what to eat but it's very easy to fall back into bad habits.

The trick is to enjoy eating healthy. And healthy food generally tends to taste very bland in contrast to chemically enhanced products of food science and over-consumption of meat, HFCS, soy/corn products, packaged goods, fast food. These things combined is bad news.

Cultural/traditional foods have it right and are overlooked for more modern methods like going vegan and other extremes.

 

[teh_pwn]

eating animal products only kills the planet, but whatevs, amirite.
oh, and you eat stuff from an animal corpse. kinda disgusting if you think about it.
i believe that in two hundred years from now eating animals will be seen as some strang relict from a less civilised society.

Do you have evidence from a credible source that attempts to analyze all cost to the environment between different farming methods?

Even if you do, how much does it harm to environment? Is it more or less than the luxuries that do harm the environment that you choose to participate in (home ownership, long commutes, plane flights, food imported from other countries, etc)?

 

[NobleXenon]

eating animal products only kills the planet, but whatevs, amirite.

Wow, lol.

Eating animals kills the planet? I really need to see a study on that one. I would say monoculture crop farming depleting soils while giving off runway chemicals would be more damaging to the planet than someone raising a cow.

oh, and you eat stuff from an animal corpse. kinda disgusting if you think about it.

Not really. I don't play the "omgz, its icky" game, lol.

i believe that in two hundred years from now eating animals will be seen as some strang relict from a less civilised society.

They'll probably be incredibly obese too.

 

[Dark Stalkers]

oh, and you eat stuff from an animal corpse. kinda disgusting if you think about it.

Do you faint at the sight of your own blood?

 

[Trent Strong]

I don't think anyone in the world knows what foods are healthy and what foods aren't at this point. I don't think there are any good scientific studies that shed any light on what a healthy diet is. Food, nutrition, diet: all these subjects are shrouded in complete darkness and won't be understood for a hundred years at best.

 

[FloppyDelux]

Fuck. Just eat healthy and get half an hours exercise a day. How hard is that for everyone to do?

30 minutes is nt that much if you watch tv at the same time...and isn't juice bad for you?

 

[Pixel Pete]

i believe that in two hundred years from now eating animals will be seen as some strang relict from a less civilised society.

Never mind the millions of years of animal consumption before modern man, no, that's not relevant at all...

I don't think anyone in the world knows what foods are healthy and what foods aren't at this point. I don't think there are any good scientific studies that shed any light on what a healthy diet is. Food, nutrition, diet: all these subjects are shrouded in complete darkness and won't be understood for a hundred years at best.

vested interests don't help either :\

 

[amrihua]

Just eat nothing but protein. You will drop it even faster.

You need vitamins and minerals too. Vegetables are the perfect diet, I think. While not rich in protein they still have lots of it in them.

 

[LordCanti]

Why can't you just drink V8 and pure fruit juice from the store? All that juicing stuff sounds like a ton of work

I want this answered. What are the pro's and con's of bottled vegetable juice, compared to freshly made vegetable juice?

 

[Akim]

this thread is killing me, it's so funny

 

[tokkun]

oh, and you eat stuff from an animal corpse. kinda disgusting if you think about it.

Kind of like thinking about how crops are grown in soil fertilized with pig shit and fish guts.

 

[Pixel Pete]

I want this answered. What are the pro's and con's of bottled vegetable juice, compared to freshly made vegetable juice?

Juicing it yourself means you can avoid putting any fruit into it. pure fruit juice isn't really much better than soda with all the fructose in it and none of the fibre to offset it.
Also you know the quality of the produce as you sight it yourself.

 

[LordCanti]

Juicing it yourself means you can avoid putting any fruit into it. pure fruit juice isn't really much better than soda with all the fructose in it and none of the fibre to offset it.
Also you know the quality of the produce as you sight it yourself.

So if you look at the ingredients, and it's all vegetables (and no fruit), it's probably fairly healthy?

I'm a city boy, so I probably wouldn't know a good vegetable from a bad one.

Edit: Reading some of the labels, there sure is a lot of sodium in some of these bottled vegetable drinks. I got some pretty horrible news from my doctor about my blood pressure, so that wouldn't really do at all for me.

It's kind of a bitch that you can be in shape yet have high as hell blood pressure.

 

[Rocket Punch]

The blind leading the blind in this thread.

 

[Chris R]

What levels of sodium should I be shooting for in Keto? Thinking about starting it soon, trying to get my blood pressure down because it is high right now (I'm betting it is dangerously high since I get pain in my leg every now and then while seated)

Probably wouldn't juice, just have 2-3 pieces of fruit a day along with a healthy grouping of veggies and some meat.

 

[Petit Melon]

What levels of sodium should I be shooting for in Keto? Thinking about starting it soon, trying to get my blood pressure down because it is high right now (I'm betting it is dangerously high since I get pain in my leg every now and then while seated)

Don't eat 2-3 pieces of fruit if you're going for keto, in fact, I wouldn't eat them at all. In Atkins they're banned for the keto phase.

Dr. Eades (Protein Power) says that you don't need to monitor salt in ketosis, in fact, you may need to eat more than you need because the carbs were what was causing the retention of salts. If you have the carb flu he recommends to add more salt and see if you feel better. I believe this is all available on his blog too.

 

[McLovin]

My diabetic dad was on this for a few months. Went from obese to slightly overweight and even stopped taking insulin. But the problem is that if your not ready to give up bad food then as soon as you get off it the weight cames back incredibly fast. He was bigger then ever a few months after the diet. Now he tried that gastric bypass surgery. Hopefully it will work. This diet works, but you have to be mentally ready to keep the weight off.
I personally couldn't take the unbearable hunger. I lost my weight with good eating habits and a ton of excersize. My weightloss took longer, but when he blew up I was still loosing weight. After his surgery he has lost 40lbs, but still hasn't caught up.

 

[LordCanti]

My diabetic dad was on this for a few months. Went from obese to slightly overweight and even stopped taking insulin. But the problem is that if your not ready to give up bad food then as soon as you get off it the weight cames back incredibly fast. He was bigger then ever a few months after the diet. Now he tried that gastric bypass surgery. Hopefully it will work. This diet works, but you have to be mentally ready to keep the weight off.
I personally couldn't take the unbearable hunger. I lost my weight with good eating habits and a ton of excersize. My weightloss took longer, but when he blew up I was still loosing weight. After his surgery he has lost 40lbs, but still hasn't caught up.

I don't get your dad's mindset. He fasted, actually lost the weight, and then put it back on by going right back to poor habits. Instead of fasting again, and then going to better habits, he decided to have surgery?

I'm going to Sam's Club tomorrow and buying a big pallet of low sodium V8. We'll see how my blood pressure is a month from now, after I cut pretty much all salt out of my diet.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Sounds pretty damn awful.

Eat meat, eggs and vegetables until you're full (seasoned just about however you want) and lose weight. This means you can have bacon, eggs and sausage for breakfast. Big ass salads with grilled chicken smothered in Ranch or Bleu Cheese dressing (full fat, don't get low fat) and nice juicy steaks with vegetables with cheese melted on top.

Cut soda. Cut bread. Cut juice.

Lose weight. Feel great.

That sounds like a wet dream....but with food instead of women!

Wouldn't bacon and eggs for breakfast be BAD? Like high cholesterol and high fat bad?

Why not use low/no fat dressings like oil n vinegar?

And wouldn't melted cheese on food be something to avoid when trying to lose weight?

Am I in opposite land?

 

[triplestation]

I'm enjoying a swiss chard smoothie right now. Tastes fucking GOOD man.

Yo what. Meat eggs and vegetables?

What about PB&J sandwiches? I eat that every DAY. I don't give a FHUHHHHHHHH

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I'm enjoying a swiss chard smoothie right now. Tastes fucking GOOD man.

Yo what. Meat eggs and vegetables?

What about PB&J sandwiches? I eat that every DAY. I don't give a FHUHHHHHHHH

I don't know why...but I laughed REALLY loud reading that. I imagined Chris Tucker's voice saying it.

But seriously...anyone know why eating bacon and eggs is suppose to result in weight loss?

 

[TheExodu5]

My diabetic dad was on this for a few months. Went from obese to slightly overweight and even stopped taking insulin. But the problem is that if your not ready to give up bad food then as soon as you get off it the weight cames back incredibly fast. He was bigger then ever a few months after the diet. Now he tried that gastric bypass surgery. Hopefully it will work. This diet works, but you have to be mentally ready to keep the weight off.
I personally couldn't take the unbearable hunger. I lost my weight with good eating habits and a ton of excersize. My weightloss took longer, but when he blew up I was still loosing weight. After his surgery he has lost 40lbs, but still hasn't caught up.

That's precisely what I said earlier in this thread. Even if the diet makes you lose weight, it's still just a temporary fix, and without a lifestyle change, you'll put it back on. It's much better to go for that lifestyle change from the get go than fasting first.

Make a lifestyle change...losing weight while eating normally will motivate you to keep going.

 

[triplestation]

I don't know why...but I laughed REALLY loud reading that. I imagined Chris Tucker's voice saying it.

But seriously...anyone know why eating bacon and eggs is suppose to result in weight loss?

Isolation of carbohydrates like bread and pasta and rice and similar good stuff.

 

[TheExodu5]

I'm going to Sam's Club tomorrow and buying a big pallet of low sodium V8. We'll see how my blood pressure is a month from now, after I cut pretty much all salt out of my diet.

Your daily recommended calorie intake if around 2000. If you want to even maintain half of that, 1000 calories (which I would argue is borderline starvation), you would need to drink 160oz of V8 per day, according to this:

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-v8-low-sodium-100-percent-i84094

1500 calories would be safer, and at that point you're looking at 240oz, or 30 cups of V8 per day. Even with the low sodium V8, you'll be intaking 4200mg of sodium and 240g of carbs per day. Sounds very unhealthy. Also, 60g of fiber which isn't too bad, but get ready for some serious shits.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Isolation of carbohydrates like bread and pasta and rice and similar good stuff.

I tried that once. Day 6 I was FUCKING STARVING. Seriously.

 

[TheExodu5]

I tried that once. Day 6 I was FUCKING STARVING. Seriously.

Eat meat & veggies.

You should not be starving on a low carb diet.

 

[McLovin]

I don't get your dad's mindset. He fasted, actually lost the weight, and then put it back on by going right back to poor habits. Instead of fasting again, and then going to better habits, he decided to have surgery?

I'm going to Sam's Club tomorrow and buying a big pallet of low sodium V8. We'll see how my blood pressure is a month from now, after I cut pretty much all salt out of my diet.

He kept saying he was going to do it again but he never did. Then one day he was huuuuge.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Unless you have a vitamix juicing is going to get pretty damn old really fast.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Eat meat & veggies.

You should not be starving on a low carb diet.

I'll give it a try! Again!

 

[Pixel Pete]

That sounds like a wet dream....but with food instead of women!

Wouldn't bacon and eggs for breakfast be BAD? Like high cholesterol and high fat bad?

Why not use low/no fat dressings like oil n vinegar?

And wouldn't melted cheese on food be something to avoid when trying to lose weight?

Am I in opposite land?

assuming you don't cook the bacon in trans fat, and blisteringly high heats, and the egg yolks aren't cooked to dry, they are both good for you. Bad fat = trans/oxidized fat. Saturated fat and dietry cholesterol are fine.
Saturated fat is integral to cell stability, and cholesterol is integral to healthy lungs, as examples. You body even generates much more cholesterol automatically than most people eat in a day, and if you eat cholesterol is will adjust downwards.

 

[LordCanti]

Your daily recommended calorie intake if around 2000. If you want to even maintain half of that, 1000 calories (which I would argue is borderline starvation), you would need to drink 160oz of V8 per day, according to this:

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-v8-low-sodium-100-percent-i84094

1500 calories would be safer, and at that point you're looking at 240oz, or 30 cups of V8 per day. Even with the low sodium V8, you'll be intaking 4200mg of sodium and 240g of carbs per day. Sounds very unhealthy. Also, 60g of fiber which isn't too bad, but get ready for some serious shits.

I'm not going to fast, I'm just going to use V8's in place of snacking throughout the day. I don't need to lose any weight at all (6'1 and maybe 180lbs) just lower my blood pressure so I don't die

Actually, I take that back...



Is 2000 really the daily recommended amount of calories for an adult male? I highly doubt that I ever get there in a day, unless I'm eating something horribly unhealthy for one of my meals (like a double bacon cheeseburger or something, which could easily clear a thousand calories in one go).

 

[Mammoth Jones]

assuming you don't cook the bacon in trans fat, and blisteringly high heats, and the egg yolks aren't cooked to dry, they are both good for you. Bad fat = trans/oxidized fat. Saturated fat and dietry cholesterol are fine.
Saturated fat is integral to cell stability, and cholesterol is integral to healthy lungs, as examples. You body even generates much more cholesterol automatically than most people eat in a day, and if you eat cholesterol is will adjust downwards.

Scrambled eggs, pepper.

Bacon cooked on medium until crisp.

Does that work?

 

[TheExodu5]

Is 2000 really the daily recommended amount of calories for an adult male? I highly doubt that I ever get there in a day, unless I'm eating something horribly unhealthy for one of my meals (like a double bacon cheeseburger or something, which could easily clear a thousand calories in one go).

For a 180lbs male? Yeah it's around there. Maybe a bit higher.

Running a quick calculation based on 180lbs, 24 years of age, and 6'1 you'd be looking at roughly 2234 calories to maintain your weight.

 

[iamvin22]

i did my juice cleanse through cancan cleanse and it was great. was only 3 days. lost 11 pounds. had lots of energy afterwards. i wouldnt do it as long as they did in the documentary.

 

[LordCanti]

For a 180lbs male? Yeah it's around there. Maybe a bit higher.

Running a quick calculation based on 180lbs, 24 years of age, and 6'1 you'd be looking at roughly 2234 calories to maintain your weight.

I've been a fairly steady 180 since high school, despite eating nowhere near that per day. My metabolism must be slow as hell.

The high blood pressure is genetic unfortunately. I'm hoping that cutting most salt from my diet will get it under control, but who knows.

 

[TheExodu5]

I've been a fairly steady 180 since high school, despite eating nowhere near that per day. My metabolism must be slow as hell.

The high blood pressure is genetic unfortunately. I'm hoping that cutting most salt from my diet will get it under control, but who knows.

What are you eating? It's really not hard to hit 2k calories.

 

[VALIS]

That's precisely what I said earlier in this thread. Even if the diet makes you lose weight, it's still just a temporary fix, and without a lifestyle change, you'll put it back on. It's much better to go for that lifestyle change from the get go than fasting first.

How is that different than any diet under the sun? You're not pointing out some grand flaw everyone is overlooking, you're stating the obvious.

The knocks against it in this thread aren't taking into account that the juicing fast is meant to be brief (and they do call it a fast and not a diet to further delineate it is brief), and once you're done with it you have to make lifestyle changes and not go back to your old habits, but thats common sense. For people who are very obese, it can cause them to drop a ton of weight and give them a huge start and more energy for a slower, long term diet.

 

[Panzon]

My wife and I did a 21 day fast on January 1st of only fruits and vegetables. The amount of energy I felt was amazing but boy did I miss meat. For me it was weird because with each day that went by I couldn't wait to get it over with. Did it as a personal challenge and was very happy I went through it without cheating. I'm a big food junkie and have never weighted more than 180 so I guess for now I can get away with it. To those of you who are trying any fast/diet I wish you luck. Honestly its all mental but its something I don't think I'll ever do again. BTW I lost 25 lbs in 21 days with no exercise so I believe its not something people with a fast metabolism should do
Edit: My wife also lost a lot of weight and is looking even greater than she already waswas

 

[TheExodu5]

How is that different than any diet under the sun? You're not pointing out some grand flaw everyone is overlooking, you're stating the obvious.

The knocks against it in this thread aren't taking into account that the juicing fast is meant to be brief (and they do call it a fast and not a diet to further delineate it is brief), and once you're done with it you have to make lifestyle changes and not go back to your old habits, but thats common sense. For people who are very obese, it can cause them to drop a ton of weight and give them a huge start and more energy for a slower, long term diet.

I'm arguing against any temporary diet. They're doomed to fail because people aren't ready for the lifestyle changes to follow them up, and then they get discouraged as they regain the weight or just resign themself to repeat the diet ad nauseum.

Better off just doing the lifestyle change right away. You'll lose weight and get the encouragement you need to maintain the lifestyle change.

 

[LordCanti]

What are you eating? It's really not hard to hit 2k calories.

I don't really eat breakfast, so I'll wake up at maybe 7 (if I have class), and not eat until maybe 12. Lunch really depends on what I'm up for. Maybe unbreaded chicken strips cooked in lime, or rice with soy sauce (which I can't have any more), etc. Dinner is about the same, depending. If I'm out with friends I'll probably double the calories of that, but by no means is that an everyday thing. I don't drink caffeinated drinks, I barely drink soda (made a decaf coke once every third day or so), etc.

I have no idea why I don't weigh less. Not that I should (since I'm the right BMI for my height), but still.

For what it's worth, my BP has been shockingly high since I was a kid. I remember getting pulled aside and retested during a school health day, and the doctor being like "this can't be right... this child isn't overweight or anything".

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I don't really eat breakfast, so I'll wake up at maybe 7 (if I have class), and not eat until maybe 12. Lunch really depends on what I'm up for. Maybe unbreaded chicken strips cooked in lime, or rice with soy sauce (which I can't have any more), etc. Dinner is about the same, depending. If I'm out with friends I'll probably double the calories of that, but by no means is that an everyday thing. I don't drink caffeinated drinks, I barely drink soda (made a decaf coke once every third day or so), etc.

I have no idea why I don't weigh less. Not that I should (since I'm the right BMI for my height), but still.

For what it's worth, my BP has been shockingly high since I was a kid. I remember getting pulled aside and retested during a school health day, and the doctor being like "this can't be right... this child isn't overweight or anything".

I think skipping breakfast wreaks havoc on ones metabolism. At least that's what I've heard...I'm sure someone here would know more than me, LMAO.

 

[KJTB]

Quick and easy weight loss methods aren't worth the time. Sure, you'll lose 15 pounds off the bat, but you're missing out on lots of vital nutrients, wrecking your metabolism, and the chances of gaining back the weight is pretty high. You absolutely cannot sustain a diet like this.

Seriously, what's with people being so lazy today? It's much more beneficial to adopt a healthy lifestyle that's sustainable. I was overweight and lost 40 pounds through exercise and healthier eating habits. I wasn't morbidly obese but I was unhappy and extremely self conscious... I was always chubby throughout middle school and high school. I weight about 210 pounds standing at 5 foot 10 inches. know what I did? I got off my fat lazy ass and ran 6 days a week until I could run 5 miles a day. I stopped drinking soda, avoided junk food, and stuck to a low carb diet.

 

[subrock]

get a vitamix yo! shits the best

 

[LordCanti]

I think skipping breakfast wreaks havoc on ones metabolism. At least that's what I've heard...I'm sure someone here would know more than me, LMAO.

Maybe. I'm just not hungry when I wake up though, and it seems counterproductive to force myself to eat something. I guess this leads to eating out of a vending machine before lunch sometimes (which is never a good thing), but even then, I usually get one of the healthier things in the machine.

Still though, I'm almost certain that I generally don't hit 2k calories in an average day.

Quick and easy weight loss methods aren't worth the time. Sure, you'll lose 15 pounds off the bat, but you're missing out on lots of vital nutrients, wrecking your metabolism, and the chances of gaining back the weight is pretty high. You absolutely cannot sustain a diet like this.

Seriously, what's with people being so lazy today? It's much more beneficial to adopt a healthy lifestyle that's sustainable. I was overweight and lost 40 pounds through exercise and healthier eating habits. I wasn't morbidly obese but I was unhappy and extremely self conscious... I was always chubby throughout middle school and high school. I weight about 210 pounds standing at 5 foot 10 inches. know what I did? I got off my fat lazy ass and ran 6 days a week until I could run 5 miles a day. I stopped drinking soda, avoided junk food, and stuck to a low carb diet.

I just got done watching the documentary that this thread was based on. Maybe two people isn't a huge sample group, but it seems like if it's doctor managed, and you actually make better lifestyle choices afterwards, this type of fast isn't a horrible idea. Most people would go right back to eating poorly I guess, so it's probably not right for everyone.