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Vigil in 2012: Wii U "has been on par with what we have with the current generation"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Barack Lesnar
Banned
He's referencing something Iwata or another exec said about there being no Nintendo software without their own hardware. It might be an Iwata policy or company-wide, who knows.
I care, because Zelda is my favorite series and I want it be an awesome experience again.
So they would close all their development studios and fire thousands of people instead?
Yep, now that I think about it, it sounds Nintendo-level stubborn.
Wow, this thread is horrible.
- Nintendo's software quality is poor?
- They should go third party?
- Not being able to differentiate Wii and GTX580?
- Mario fucking Galaxy - best game this generation.
- Wii sold 70.93 million units worldwide, 500,000 alone last Black Friday in US.
- Oh, and:
_______________
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Wii
_______________
Crysis 2 Maxed - PC (GTX580 capable)
Ah.
I was confused by your:
"If Nintendo developed their core franchises on PlayStation and Xbox, I wouldn't give a damn about Nintendo and their consoles."
If you don't give a damn about Nintendo you can't really give a damn about their games.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If it was on 360, it probably wouldn't look like colored jaggy shit like Skyward Sword, and it might not have those sketchy controls the game is built around, but it would probably have the same crappy storytelling, filler, tedious fetch quests, Fi, etc. There's a bunch of problems with the current Zelda model that can't be fixed by throwing more graphical power at it.
gundamkyoukai
Member
More like they think people are blind .
Everyone wants better gfx it's just that not everyone willing to pay the same price for it .
What happens to Wii U also depends on how powerful PS4 and the next X Box is .
For Nintendo the weaker they are the better for them .
If MS and Sony specs near the same and they out class Wii U by to much it's not going to be Wii U vs PS4 or Wii U vs X Box .
It's going to be like this gen Wii VS 360\PS3\PC there only so much you can cut from a game if the specs to far apart .
What I said was the person would end up with both, if you read up like 5 or 6 posts from this quote, someone even states that he has been buying PS3 version for years and will buy the Wii U version... The tablet features I am talking about were already shown off for a Free ghost recon game, I'm pretty sure activision will find some features for the controller, and those just make sense.
It would be fairly huge just to have a map with your friendlies and sighted enemies located on it, but adding the ability to give commands through the tablet, like drawing a line from a friendly to cover, and the friend seeing that on their tablet thanks to a small alert is fairly huge.
Your opinion.
And by the way Zelda games are great not thanks to their stories. The story has always been meh in Zelda games.
I completely agree with you, modern Zelda has problems that go beyond the underpowered hardware. It’s just that, even if the next game manage to fix all these problems, underpowered hardware would still hold it back.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
And yet it seems as the series goes on, we get more and more crappy story getting in the way of the actual gameplay. It is a problem that seems to increase as the series goes on, and apparently can't be solved by better visuals or IQ.
Hold it back? By this logic, everything not on the strongest possible hardware is being 'held back'. Are 3DS games are being 'held back' because the hardware is underpowered compared to the Vita?
AceBandage
Banned
Well a lot of people think consoles hold back PCs.
Which is of course, quite insane.
But hey, people are entitled to be insane.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
No more than an extremely tiny % of users are going to buy multiple versions of the game. And to reference the poster in this thread who said he would buy both versions is just... really? Do I have to explain this to you?
Not sure how much of it you've played but Call of Duty is a very fast-paced game with intense, almost non-stop action with kills happening all the time. People aren't going to be looking down at their tablets and drawing lines to cover, just not happening. In the Ghost Recon game, sure, as it's much slower-paced, but not CoD.
All they need to do is look back to Majora's Mask town and npcs and Twilight Princess's vastness, seriously what could be better for the series then 6+ towns all populated with interesting NPCs that have their own unique stories, you can help them out and save their world because it means something to you, not because it's the next step in the story.
And how do you know "holds back your favorite games"?
Assuming that the Wii was as power as the Xbox 360 and they still came up with the ideas for Skyward Sword. Aside "HD visuals", the game would be bashed for the same "long/extended intro", segmented islands, empty sky, etc.
There's no way of knowing that they're been held back by it; when if a problem with the Wii had was the Nintendo designed it with Nintendo in mind. And when making Zelda, they designed it around the controller.
If Zelda has shown one thing, is that basically.. everyone likes (and dislikes) Zelda for different reasons. An HD Wii wasn't going to mean Skyward Sword was going to end like Oblivion or Dark Souls with bigger worlds and open-ended exploration... heck they could've made a 2D game ala Four Swords Adventures; just like how in Mario they went back to 2D and multiplayer.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Yeah, I'm sure the online infrastructure is going to be fantastic.
Why stop at power. Every system without options for all control types (Traditionaly, Kinect, Motion Control, Touch Screen) is being held back because devs are limited to one or the other.
So, you think that games like Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim, Uncharted etc. would ever be the same experiences on a console like Wii? And, to offer a Nintendo example, you think that a game like Metroid Prime would ever be the amazing experience that it was, if GameCube was just a beefed up N64?
I know 5 people who own multiple versions of the game (either PS3 or 360 AND PC versions)
In pubs you have a point, but clans could use the added ability to quickly look at a map and see where their squad mates are, give them direct communication, it could even change the game a bit, which wouldn't be bad since COD3 and before were much less arcade-y.
You seem to not really understand how console generations work, it will come down to people finding benefits in the Wii U and buying it, then it will come down to people buying games for that console... 1 game is a trojan horse, after that, their entire library starts to grow from there... they could end up with a dozen games they never imagine purchasing on the console thanks to playing on the tablet alone.
Hell I know a dozen people who half kid about buying the Wii U just so they can game while on the toilet.
Look at how Skyrim on PS3 turned out. Red Dead Redemption had many bugs and glitches at launch (that they fixed)
Your examples can also be said that were "held back" too (problems with frame-rate, glitches, bugs, crashes, slowdown).
Heck, look at Battlefield 3 were Dice said it wasn't enough; which is why they ask for 8GB of RAMs on "next-gen consoles".
Everything is technically been held back, but developers work around their limits. Some push them; some try and fail; some just settle for making something at least.
But is not like you make it, were more power is suddenly going to translate into better games.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Sorry to hear about Nintendo going third party. If only a man had said above par, this disaster could've been averted.
70.93 is the shipment number after March 2010.Ubermatik said:
We're too used to knowing people who get new HD sets and watch stretched 4:3 SD content on it.gundamkyoukai said:
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
We'll never know because third parties never made much of any effort, but I don't think it would be crazy to say that the Wii could have had experiences like a GTA:San Andreas, or a Morrowind.
Both titles, incidentally, that arguably offered more than their 'next gen' sequels did.
Cmd. Pishad'aç
Banned
More like 95 million according to ********. And they are like ~85% spot on.
How is this related to what I'm saying?
Open-word games with the scale of Skyrim will always have bugs, that's inevitable. This is a result of insufficient testing which, in games like this, requires a huge amount of time and money. The PS3 version of Skyrim is a mess due to the PS3 architecture and when I played RDR a year ago, the game was fine.
I don't have ridiculous expectations, I just want the series that I'm interested in to be on a hardware that's on par with the rest of the industry.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Do you not see why it might not be a good idea to reference the five people you know who bought two versions of CoD, the poster in this thread who mentioned he'll buy both, and the one dozen people you know who kid about buying a Wii U so they can game while on the toilet, as evidence for your argument?
And yes, in pubs, which is what the vast majority of the CoD community is comprised of. Organized clans are a minority. You're referencing stuff that a tiny percentage of the user base would use. Even with organized clans, the pace is going to be extremely fast. People aren't going to look down away from the screen and draw lines on their tablets from cover to cover. Do you really, honestly believe this?
Finally, regarding not knowing how console generations work (the last paragraph). This current gen has been the first with unique profiles, achievements/trophies, friends list... basically a fully-fleshed out 'online identity'. People aren't going to drop all that and switch over to the Wii U version because you can do things with the tablet.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Cmd. Pishad'aç;36344981 said:
chartzzzzzz references now makes this the thread that almost has it all.
Someone please mention how PCs cost $5000 every year / comfy couch is better, and we're done.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
15% full of shit is still a lot, but considering 95 is the most recent official shipment number (well, 94.97), they're right this time.
Flatline
Banned
Red Dead Redemption and Uncharted are as much about gameplay as about atmosphere and presentation. I really don't think it would be possible.
It's nice to see people finally seeing sense with this 'news' and embracing the truth.
How anyone could have seriously thought that Nintendo were reversing their (EXTREMELY successful) 'Wii strategy' with the WiiU by using 'next gen' tech in the new console is beyond me.
If anything I'd have thought that it was easier than ever to be a 'die-hard' Nintendo fan as they seem to cater exclusively for you barely showing any interest in attracting the 'COD/6 pack' crowd.
Apparently the 'die-hards' want all the Marios and Zeldas they can handle and so that's what Nintendo gives them.
How anyone could have seriously thought that Nintendo were reversing their (EXTREMELY successful) 'Wii strategy' with the WiiU by using 'next gen' tech in the new console is beyond me.
If anything I'd have thought that it was easier than ever to be a 'die-hard' Nintendo fan as they seem to cater exclusively for you barely showing any interest in attracting the 'COD/6 pack' crowd.
Apparently the 'die-hards' want all the Marios and Zeldas they can handle and so that's what Nintendo gives them.
Of course it wouldn't, any rational person knows this.
Question time:
So barring experiences that simply would not possible without specific controllers or other so called gimmicks, do you believe that what you're describing is a fundamental law that will remain in effect indefinitely for all time as technology progresses? Do you believe in the concept of diminishing returns?
The idea of diminishing returns is brought up quite often, I'm sure to the annoyance of many. People said it would happen this gen but it didn't really, at least not to a significant degree. Does this mean it will never happen? We've seen more massive layoffs and studio closures this gen than at any other point in time since the last industry crash. Why? Is that at all related to the concept of diminishing returns? While I don't believe for a second that the traditional gaming model is going to go away any time soon, many analysts believe the dedicated gaming market is in danger of contracting next gen rather than expanding. Does the explosion of the casual games market at all have to do with the concept of diminishing returns? What about the fact that that market is now larger than the traditional games market? Perhaps not yet in dollars spent but certainly in sheer numbers.
I think these are all things that both Nintendo and Microsoft are thinking about. Like it or lump it, Microsoft has definitely taken note of what kinect has done for their console. There's a marked change pre-kinect and post-kinect. Some of that was almost certainly part of the Wii market deciding to move on from that product, but it's very naive to think MS would be experiencing anything close to their current level of success without the kinect audience - an audience that is more than happy with 2005 era hardware in 2012.
Please, please understand that I'm not advocating that any of these companies forego the hardcore, graphics driven market. I'm not trying to hint that hardware power no longer matters in the era of the iPad. A binary view of this convoluted and unpredictable industry is not necessary. I just bring up these points because they're definitely relevant, not only when considering what console manufacturers are probably contemplating but also in relation to what really appeals to the overall market.
Because you have the assumption that Nintendo franchises are been held back, by Nintendo hardware, that Nintendo designed, with Nintendo games in mind.
(And on this case, unlike the Wii..Nintendo has been courting and talking with third-parties)
If your argument was that it helds back third-parties then I could "get it"; since third-parties usually like to aim high...even if it costs them.
Plus that's with the assumption that the next Xbox and PS4 will be radically different from the current hardware; something we don't know yet. If the rumors are true and the next Xbox is technically slightly more powerful than the Wii U but not by much; then things will be much closer than "next gen" than they were on this one.
But we just don't have any way of knowing if Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy; were going to be any different if the Wii was as strong as the others. Heck, one could argue that the games would've been "worse"; since during the Gamecube (a console on par with the others) Mario Sunshine to many suffered, because it tried to be like other games: more explorations, people to talk to, voice-acting, story.
ThisWreckage
Banned
From a hardware standpoint, Nintendo plays things far too conservatively and safe. If I'm being honest, it irritates the hell out of me. It's a good business model because it nets them money from day one, but it also makes their machines look positively antiquated as soon as they launch.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
They made the system's main controller the Dual Shockiest yet, and relegated the Wii controllers to second-class status without any apparent upgrades.
Dude, if you want a sexy wife go marry a sexy woman. You can't make someone be something they're not.
Thats the worst rumor I have ever heard.
Oh my lordy lord...
Flatline
Banned
Yeah, it baffles me how some people insist that graphics and power don't matter. Just think of what Uncharted does and tell me it doesn't matter. One of my favorite parts of Uncharted 2 was the crumbling building part which would be impossible in Wii.
This seems more of a misguided stab (IMHO) at an evolution of the Wii's input to me than some effort to attract any wayward 360 or PS3 owners.
Gamecube is sexy.
*folds arms*
This comment must be some kind of moral victory for Sony fans who were secretly irritated about the teasing Vita was receiving from Nintendo fans concerning launch sales. Even some old school GAF vets, who don't post that much anymore, came out of the woodwork just to bait and enjoy the reactions from Nintendo fans. Quite the sight to behold.
Despite it being true or not, I am sure that it still must be gratifying to burst the bubbles of unsuspecting Nintendo fans, if only momentarily.
Don't worry Nintendo fans. This may appear to be disappointingly definitive right now, but I am sure that we will come across a statement or rumor that contradicts this news, just as there will be yet another rumor or statement that will contradict that news as well.
The roller coaster ride of excitement to disappointment and back again may seem like slow torture right now, but it will all be worth it come E3.
A big Nintendo fan like James Rolfe does not become vicariously emotional, to the point of being unhealthy, through things in the VG industry of which he has no control over. Of that, we can be sure of. Go by that example.
Despite it being true or not, I am sure that it still must be gratifying to burst the bubbles of unsuspecting Nintendo fans, if only momentarily.
Don't worry Nintendo fans. This may appear to be disappointingly definitive right now, but I am sure that we will come across a statement or rumor that contradicts this news, just as there will be yet another rumor or statement that will contradict that news as well.
The roller coaster ride of excitement to disappointment and back again may seem like slow torture right now, but it will all be worth it come E3.
A big Nintendo fan like James Rolfe does not become vicariously emotional, to the point of being unhealthy, through things in the VG industry of which he has no control over. Of that, we can be sure of. Go by that example.
Flatline
Banned
The black ones. The purples are a monstrosity that must be purged from this world.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
A lot of people have no concept of what 'power' actually means outside of how something looks, and very little idea about how scalable graphics can be.
Dwarf fortress wouldn't run very well on a 360.
It doesn't help arguments when people have apparently forgotten everything that PS2 / Xbox / GC games were doing in terms of complexity; there were open world games back then.
There were games with no load times, games with world persistence, games with hundreds of NPCs on screen at the same time; it sort of feels that because the wii got a lot of shitty shovelware people have it in their heads that its on par with an N64 or something, or that the majority of AAA titles next gen are likely to be doing much more (or aiming at doing any more) than making a scripted theme park ride look as absolutely beautiful as it can at 30fps 720p
I don't really care about sales.
If I did, I guess I would have an entire library of shovelware and waggle gimmicks.
It's just shameful that Wii U will again have dated graphics and more of the same.
Graphics-whore much? Seriously, this thread makes me sad and shows that many people here put graphics before gameplay. And don't come here saying that raw power helps gameplay, I haven't seen anything confirming that this generation. AI still sucks balls, open-world games are mainly plagued by the disc-drive format and what skyrim does, morrowind already did it back on the first xbox. If you have real concrete examples, feel free to enlighten me.