I thought he went back to Morrigan/Akuma/Doom?
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NorCal Regionals 10 | Fighting game tournament | March 24-25
- Thread starter USD
- Start date
he changed the order though. don't know why when he did better before starting morrigan as he could zone the hell out of players for the whole match. it feels like he changed it so people won't bitch as much as he would only zone with morrigan once he was down to only her.
That's so dumb if that's why he's switching the order. She needs to be up front.
scytheavatar
Member
Is anyone here actually impressed by how the Japanese are playing this game? The way I see it there's literally zero differences between their SF4 and SFxT play. I think a lot of people are going to be surprise big time by the results of SS for SFxT.
Rice-Eater
Member
We'll see, right now we don't know how good they are because nobody has seen them in a tournament setting and I guess as you said, Shadowloo Shodown should be the first one. I think all I've seen is a few videos of them playing casuals during there stream so I have no idea how to judge that. But I think the top guys will be taking this game seriously so unlike Marvel, I think the top Japanese players will definitely be up there as guys to beat.
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds
Banned
Depends what you mean by "good". Marvel is definitely competitive and hell of a lot of fun. SFxT has a lot more issues imo. I don't play either right now, but if I went back to one it would sure as fuck be Marvel over SFxT. SSFIV + SkullGirls = That will never happen.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;36367090 said:
Tell me, within the context of being a good competitive game, the problems SFxT has. Because as it stands right now, SFxT is so much more solid than Marvel that I'm amazed there are people who doubt it. Though the game certainly does have problems beyond that context.
toddhunter
Member
Practical "Infinite" combos, megaman flying away, other glitches with characters, some characters lacking a lot of the tools others have, gem implementation, online issues (there are tournaments online that you may or may not want to disregard, but SF4 had some great ones especially in Japan).
And so on.
It has issues. Nothing that can't be fixed by a competent dev. So yeah, we will see how we go.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
The things you mention are mostly bugs and glitches. Similar things that were in Marvel early on (Zero shadow giltch, etc). The things that make Marvel a bad competitive game are things that can't be patched because they're integral to the game itself.
And only the only infinite that's practical atm is the Kazuya infinite. The Xiaoyu infinite isn't practical.
Gems...yeah that I'll give you to an extent, but there's like a 99% chance that gems are still gonna be banned for most tournaments even after the tournament patch comes out. UFGT has already decided to ban them and they'll probably be banned from Evo as well judging from what the Cannons have said.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Do people really think Marvel is spectator friendly? Perhaps for people who know the ins and outs of it, but I'd imagine for someone not as experienced with it Marvel is a mish mash of colors and sparks. Most games are ridiculously hard to follow when assist characters are in shooting lasers, people are super jumping and the screen pans up while the other player is down below doing who knows what, Dark Phoenix activates and no one knows what the hell happened but the KO sign appears.. In my opinion it's a very hard game to follow. Also I don't know how the juggle system works in Marvel but in SFxT there's at least a limit. In Marvel all I see is people spamming the same 3 moves in their air with Magneto for god knows how long to end with super, into another super, into more super..
SFxT is much, much more traditional and footsie based. As for how the Japanese play, I play 99% of my games against Japanese players and they really do play it like an extension of 4. Sometimes it feels like I'm playing 2 Turbo..
SFxT is much, much more traditional and footsie based. As for how the Japanese play, I play 99% of my games against Japanese players and they really do play it like an extension of 4. Sometimes it feels like I'm playing 2 Turbo..
There's nothing wrong with practical infinites. Glitches are glitches and almost always get patched out if recent Capcom fighters are an example. And of course characters will have tools others don't -- if they all had the same tools there'd by no point to having 40+ characters.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This is like the nerdiest analogy in the world, but I think it's kind of funny and at least partly true:
Watching a Marvel vs Capcom match is something like Dragon Ball Z. When Goku is fighting one of the main villains, they'll move around at light speed shooting powerful energy blasts everywhere, and to a casual bystander it looks like people are appearing and disappearing like magic and the earth is shaking and there's explosions in the sky and oh god what the hell is going on. But the other strong fighters will just be standing on the sidelines silently and intensely watching the match, eyes darting back and forth following it all. That's MvC. Train in it for a while and a rhyme and reason starts to emerge from all that crazy stuff. Train hard enough and you can chuck spirit bombs on fools.
But for real, I've always thought it was easier to see and understand strategy in MvC than it is in other fighting games simply because it's so much more obvious when a tactic is working in that game than it is in others. It's really the only fighting game that I "get." The basic strategy in any fighting game is (1) sticking to moves and tactics with a good risk/reward ratio, (2) limiting your opponent's options and forcing them into bad situations, and (3) converting a hit arising from 1&2 into big damage. And Marvel is just so much less subtle about this in major ways that it's just easy to follow as long as you can keep up and at least have the most basic understanding of what makes a good team.
lol love that analogy.
The Phantomnaut
Neo Member
NCR was great!
Got bodied bad in SFXT but almost reached top 8 in Virtua Fighter 5. Good to see some folks like N4US, Hellpockets, Haunts, and many others.
Got bodied bad in SFXT but almost reached top 8 in Virtua Fighter 5. Good to see some folks like N4US, Hellpockets, Haunts, and many others.
scytheavatar
Member
http://nightmaremode.net/2012/03/in...-look-into-the-fighting-game-community-17198/
You can read it yourself, someone who knows nothing about fighting games described UMvC3 as the "center ring to this circus" and something that "must be experienced, and not just seen."
I'd say the problem with SFvsTK is largely pacing. It's a bunch of ideas thrown together, without much thought on how they work together. It just doesn't mesh well together as a coherent system, which makes things dull.
It reminds me some of KOF:Maximum Impact in terms of having the same problems.
I'm glad to see VF get a positive reception. I've always said if I had a great KOF and a great VF I'd never need another fighter. Looks like I'm getting my wish. That said, I'll give Skullgirls a shot to join the party, but it's a pretty exclusive club
It reminds me some of KOF:Maximum Impact in terms of having the same problems.
I'm glad to see VF get a positive reception. I've always said if I had a great KOF and a great VF I'd never need another fighter. Looks like I'm getting my wish. That said, I'll give Skullgirls a shot to join the party, but it's a pretty exclusive club
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds
Banned
It's hilarious everyone used to give SSFIV shit saying it was slow and boring... and now SFxT is all of the rage lol
Seth didnt mention anything about ono. Regarding SFxTk the tl;dr version is that people don't know how to play the game. It's especially evident when infiltration just wiped the floor at NCR.
SolarPowered
Member
That depends on how long he screams before the start of the fight.
I haven't enjoyed watching the game yet and so far don't think it to be a good fighting game but that is the conclusion I came to as well. It was basically low level play for the most part with many of the game's systems going unused or underused.
RellyRell28
Banned
When did Yipes say this game was ass. He seems to like this game alot more then the other fighting games out there.
Killa Sasa
Member
This post hits what makes Marvel so good. It's this with a much prettier exterior (IMO) and characters I'm far more attached to.
Re: the "random" crowd
I don't get this mentality. Every character is a threat, and with the right amount of work/smart decisions, they can win. A lot of people like to say "lol so randumb" but I'm hardpressed to find a match since Ultimate's been released that you can't pinpoint the exact mistake someone made in a loss. High intensity? Sure. A ridiculous set of bad situations? Yep. But each and everyone of them could be avoided. But nothing actually random. There's a lot of piss-poor decision making out there.
Anchor Skrull? Snap him in. Dark Wesker? Make a team with some air mobility/lame play (shouldn't lose to it consistently, in any case).
Everyone who gets into a bad situation in this game deserves it really, since your team should have just as much opposing bullshit that you can run on the opponent. They just got their situation to play out and take advantage of it.
99.5% of the "random" I see in this game is chalked up to lack of experience on the part of the losing party, allowing a situation to develop in the first place or a combination of both.
In high-level Marvel, there's a lot of spacing and strategy that goes into the best players' decisions (including the use of XF in conjunction with how your/the opponent's team is set up), and I don't think the best has been seen yet. A lot of players just seem to be kinda lazy and pigeonhole a lot of different aspects of this game. Plus, the complete lack of counter teams for certain makeups is absolutely mindboggling. Don't get it.
I don't think this was a great tournament for Marvel, especially as far as Top 8 was concerned. And I still don't know how PR Balrog wins with that assistless team of his. He's clearly good, but I think it's a testament to the fact that there's definitely a lot for people to improve on in UMvC3 still -- especially in terms of actually, ya know, learning matchups and preying on poor team composition in a team game.
The only player consistently impressing me (very much so lately) is MarlinPie. He's really digging deep with his team, setups, and all-around game for different situations.
/saves post link as bookmark
/name it as "use this link whenever people bring up why they think Marvel is not a good game to watch"
I'm just gonna go with this analogy IRL from now on. Friends always ask me why I play this game. They will immediately understand when I go with "DBZ, fools".
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
People call it "random" because a single 50/50 can lead to a dead character. There's a valid criticism in there, but "random" isn't the right word for it.
Honestly, the lack of well-thought out breakdowns of games in the FGC (or respect for the few that does exist) and just "lol random" or "lol Wesker", when it is usually the victims fault and not the characters, really seems to hold back the progression.
And I agree with you, Sasa. PR Balrog is clearly incredible because his team is basically 3-point characters. It should be counter team pickable.
But, people don't have more than one team / too many FG's out to really focus.
And I agree with you, Sasa. PR Balrog is clearly incredible because his team is basically 3-point characters. It should be counter team pickable.
But, people don't have more than one team / too many FG's out to really focus.
Yeah I hope Capcom chills out for a couple of years.
Unforgiving? Unfair?
Yeah complaining about the 50/50 dead character/mixup on the incoming character is a legit critisism but calling the game random just makes people look dumb. This game realy isnt random at all. Well other than Weskers stupid Phantom Dance.
nothing wrong with releasing multiple games. the pros don't have to play every single game either. somebody like ricky ortiz might play marvel but he puts most of his attention on street fighter and he is successful because of it. combofiends best game is marvel but it looks like he isn't playing as much as he should. i think its better to be real good at one game than just good at several games.
Fragment dropping truth bombs
RellyRell28
Banned
This so much. I think the word they're looking for is unforgiving
JeTmAn81
Member
I think I can understand the word "random" being applied to Marvel on account of how the highest-level play in the game essentially consists of situations where the other player's going to hit you, and you have a 50/50 chance of guessing where. A lot of the time your opponent doesn't even know where their attack is going to land, so that's just random chance, right? As I was writing this, I was going to say that this isn't different than any other game, where the highest-level play is about reading your opponent's attacks and preparing the correct defense, but of course that's impossible if even they don't know where they're going to hit. Granted, that's not the case with most setups, but the fact that it's possible really does lead to nothing more than a guessing game, which is disappointing to think about.
Also, scrubs not being able to beat top players doesn't mean the game isn't random. What makes it random is if you remove all the extraneous factors which can be learned through the simple application of time and practice (combos, matchups, setups). Because everybody's going to be able to learn all that stuff given enough time. It's at that point where the core of the game is really revealed. Everything else being equal, what puts somebody over the top?
Also, scrubs not being able to beat top players doesn't mean the game isn't random. What makes it random is if you remove all the extraneous factors which can be learned through the simple application of time and practice (combos, matchups, setups). Because everybody's going to be able to learn all that stuff given enough time. It's at that point where the core of the game is really revealed. Everything else being equal, what puts somebody over the top?
By random, I think it just means that the "better" player doesn't always win, because one mistake can lead to character death. Even if you have a significant 3-1 advantage, XF3 alone can turn the tides. But that's why Marvel gets so hype. Most other fighters require multiple hit confirms in a given round to win, usually resulting in the better player with more solid fundamentals advancing. It also gives the better player more time to download the other's habits and tendencies.
It's like NCAA vs. NBA. March madness is much more hype than NBA playoffs unless we get a Game 7, simply because of the high stakes nature of single elimination. But just as in Marvel, the better team doesn't always advance. It's still their "fault" for losing, but the outcome tends to be a lot more "random" than a 7-game series.
It's like NCAA vs. NBA. March madness is much more hype than NBA playoffs unless we get a Game 7, simply because of the high stakes nature of single elimination. But just as in Marvel, the better team doesn't always advance. It's still their "fault" for losing, but the outcome tends to be a lot more "random" than a 7-game series.
If anything thats why i like Marvel so much. You cant afford to have any mistakes, vs other games where you can fuck up plenty and still win
JeTmAn81
Member
Let's not forget that one character death is not the same as losing. In Marvel, you still have two more characters, and XF to help you make a comeback. I actually think XF is not particularly random since it's available to both players equally, and its usage has become very strategic in nature. You could use it to kill your opponent's best character, to guard cancel their attacks into a punish, to avoid chip, recover red health (I end up doing this all the time because of my happy birthday-prone assist calls), etc.
Killa Sasa
Member
But why would you remove all of that? That's what makes up any fighter worth its salt. And not everybody will earn that over time -- or at least how to properly apply them. Or else results wouldn't be relatively consistent when it comes down to the top representation in the game.
That's what separates the wheat from the chaff just like any other good fighter.
But to answer your question, I guess the core of the game is controlled chaos then? Don't see it as hugely different from other current Capcom games tbh, other than that there's a more consistent and bigger sense of urgency in every fight.
Definitely agree with this, a 3/5 Marvel tourney will run faster than basically every other game's 2/3.
The only issue I have is that if you remove 50/50's or "random", then you also lose mindgames...(which, now that I think about it, might be my main irritation with SFxTK..just moves soo slow).
Now, Marvel specifically, 2/3 isn't really long enough for mindgames / trends to kick in. Which is a problem. It really should be 3/5....but that's a different argument.
Now, Marvel specifically, 2/3 isn't really long enough for mindgames / trends to kick in. Which is a problem. It really should be 3/5....but that's a different argument.
The better player doesn't always win because the game is random it is because of deliberate design choices that aren't based on any kind of 'dice roll'.
I think it has to do with how getting the upper hand and killing 2 characters in Marvel is pretty much meaningless the majority of the time since the teams are designed to have anchors that pretty much become broken at level 3 X factor. I.e. the player that did the better reads and execution throughout the beginning of the match is seldom rewarded for it since Level 3 X factor basically shuts it down and in the end it results in LVL3 X factor anchor vs LVL3 X factor anchor.
Phoenix anchors are slightly more rewarding for great initial play since you get rewards for being the able to get 5 bars... but the end end result is something even more broken than Tekken 4.
JeTmAn81
Member
This might be a separate question. I've been operating off the assumption that some things are only a matter of time and practice, and that these aren't things which are going to give you a competitive edge against someone else who's put in time and practice. As in, you can learn all the notes of a piano piece but that doesn't mean you'll be able to put on a great performance of that piece.
What happened with Marvel 2? By the end of that game's heyday, wasn't it pretty much figured out as far as combos, setups, etc.? If so, what provided the edge in high-level competition? I'm just thinking that even if I practice as much as Justin Wong, get my timing and understanding of the game down just as well as him, I'm still not going to be on his level because he's got a mental superiority when it comes to these kinds of games. Of course, a 15+ years of constant play probably helps him as well.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Bitching about how competitive a game is based on a personal invisible yard stick helps do..... what exactly?
Killa Sasa
Member
I get this way of thinking but I don't agree with it. You know they're a bullshit anchor, yet you refuse to snap them in or make people have to move to their B/C/D-plan?
To me, that's the player's fault for allowing that situation to develop in the first place. It's poor resource management as well.
If you can body his/her other characters regardless, why not snap in his Yu Gi Oh trap card horseshit character, neuter him since XF1 isn't anything close to XF3, and then go back to bodying the characters you have no (or fewer) problems against?
There's gotta be better gameplans in this game's future.