• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Vigil in 2012: Wii U "has been on par with what we have with the current generation"

SmokyDave

Member
Well, it was taken out of context.

MrNyarlathotep was saying it's absurd to be hung up on console specs to the point that you can't enjoy games on less powerful hardware. Console specs are obsolete a few years after they're released, so why aren't people like Juice gaming exclusively on PCs if they must have the best at minimum? Why touch consoles at all? Why be happy with handhelds when they're always going to be delivering sub-console experiences? Etc. All of which proves it's a matter of perception, not of higher standards.

Some gamers love games. Other love to be dazzled first and foremost, and if they can't be dazzled, they won't play. Different strokes and all that, but that's a little silly.

I'm glad I don't have those kinds of hang-ups. Sounds like a real burden.

I see. The way I see it is, you have a gaming PC and that takes care of the 'wow' factor, but, can't play console exclusives. In order to play the console exclusives, you also buy the consoles. Now, whilst these consoles won't 'wow' you like the PC does, it's still nice to see technology marching on and every new gen brings better and better stuff. It's good to have as much power as possible running these console exclusives, even if your PC is even more powerful still.

So, I don't think you need to only play on a bleeding-edge gaming rig to be disappointed with weak hardware*.

*When I say weak, I'm assuming that Nintendo are launching a machine barely more powerful than PS3 / 360 and expecting that machine to last 5 years.

(Also, being hung up on tech isn't a burden. Nowadays, it's a joy. So much awesome stuff out there).
 

Jokeropia

Member
It's not just about the graphics. The Wii was supposed to bring innovation. But where were the real innovations in gaming during the last few years? Not on the Wii. Where can you find a bustling indie scene? Not on Wii. Where can you find games that pushed the medium like LittleBigPlanet, Journey, Mass Effect (yes, don't let the apparently terrible conclusion cloud your memory, the first one was amazing), Red Dead Redemption, Portal, Deus Ex: HR, Skyrim and so on? Not on Wii. Hell, even the first COD: MW was somewhat innovative at the time (the use of a modern setting, over-the-top presentation and single campaign, OCD style multiplayer) - and it wasn't on Wii.
This is entirely subjective, I hope you realize, as SMG beats all those games as far as I'm concerned. Additionally, (if you're referring to innovations specifically made possible by Wii being Wii) I want to highlight the advances pointer controls did for first person games, e.g. Metroid Prime 3.
 

Maxrunner

Member
It's not just about the graphics. The Wii was supposed to bring innovation. But where were the real innovations in gaming during the last few years? Not on the Wii. Where can you find a bustling indie scene? Not on Wii. Where can you find games that pushed the medium like LittleBigPlanet, Journey, Mass Effect (yes, don't let the apparently terrible conclusion cloud your memory, the first one was amazing), Red Dead Redemption, Portal, Deus Ex: HR, Skyrim and so on? Not on Wii. Hell, even the first COD: MW was somewhat innovative at the time (the use of a modern setting, over-the-top presentation and single campaign, OCD style multiplayer) - and it wasn't on Wii.

Honestly, I felt that the Wii controls failed to deliver a different, ENJOYABLE experience. They only really worked for a handful of games, notably Wii Sports and Excitetruck (which is my favorite Wii game). And the evidence is clear: even Nintendo has mostly abandoned the Wii controls and went back to more traditional controls.

The Wii did have great games. But they were great DESPITE being on Wii, not because of it. SMG, the two Zeldas, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Monster Hunter Tri, Metroid Prime 3 - all would have theoretically been better off with HD graphics and a modern online system.

Ultimately, it's not about the graphics, as in the number of pixels on the screen. It's about the experience, and after Wii and Gamecube I find myself doubting if a Nintendo home console is going to be where the best experiences are found. I hope i'm proven wrong, but I don't think I will.

All those games had archaic dual analog controlling systems though....Prime 3 and Red Stell 2 showed how to use the wii for FPS games...
 
Also posted in the speculation thread.

From Ars Technica:

Does it matter if the Wii U only has "current generation" hardware power?
By Kyle Orland | Published 42 minutes ago

wiiuzelda-4f70922-intro-thumb-640xauto-31988.jpg

Believe it or not, we'll probably look back on graphics like these in ten years and wonder why we thought they ever looked good.

Technically, Nintendo's Wii U will launch the "next generation" of video game consoles when it hits stores later this year. But as far as pure hardware power, the upcoming system might be better grouped with the current generation of high-definition consoles like the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. At least that's what Darksiders 2 director Marvin Donald said in a video interview with Nordic site Game Reactor.

"We'll have a few new features for sure, but I think visually, for the most part, it'll be pretty much the same," Donald said of the Wii U version of Darksiders 2, which is being planned as a launch title for the system. "So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generation, so, based on what I understand, the resolution, textures, polygon counts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."

Donald's statement runs counter to that of Sterne Agee analyst Arvind Bhatia, who said when the Wii U was first unveiled at last year's E3 that he understood it "will have 50 percent more processing power compared to the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360." But it does match up with a rumored set of hardware specs for the system that leaked last December, which described a system that was "very similar" to the Xbox 360 from a hardware perspective.

Simply matching the graphical and processing power of systems that are over half-a-decade old would seem to be a risky move for Nintendo, given that improved performance over the status quo is usually the key selling point for any new console, trumping the lineup of launch software. The key exception to this rule, of course, has been Nintendo's own Wii, a severely underpowered system that rode its low price and unique motion-sensing controller to years of sales dominance. It looks like Nintendo is pursuing a similar strategy with the Wii U, counting on the appeal of its touch-screen-equipped mega-controller to sell the system rather than fancy graphical upgrades. Going with "current gen" hardware will also likely keep down Nintendo's production costs, and therefore the system's price, although a lot depends on just how much the gaming giant is paying to produce those tablet controllers.

There probably isn't much downside to this strategy in the near term. Both Microsoft and Sony have indicated they're in no great rush to release follow ups to their current systems, meaning the Wii U will be competing directly with the Xbox 360 and PS3 for at least a year, if not longer. This head start, if combined with a low price, could make the Wii U seem relatively more appealing coming out of the gate, and give Nintendo a chance to establish a foothold in the world of high-definition gaming.

But the low-powered hardware strategy starts to look a little riskier in the long run, after Sony and Microsoft will have released what are almost sure to be much more powerful systems on their own terms. Sure, Nintendo can brag about versions of Darksiders 2 and Assassin's Creed III coming to the Wii U this year, but things might be different in a few years, when developers start finding that the Wii U just can't manage decent ports of games designed for its more powerful console competition (not to mention high-end PCs, which will undoubtedly be making the next generation of consoles look downright outdated in the years to come). To see just how bad it could be, look at how many big-name publishers have simply refused to port some of their biggest multiplatform games to the Wii in recent years, simply because the outdated hardware couldn't do them justice.

Then again, it's possible that the Wii U won't suffer as much as the Wii on this score. As we get closer and closer to true photorealism in games, we may be entering a period of diminishing returns for new hardware, where the graphical and gameplay leaps that can be achieved by a new system keep getting narrower and narrower. Sure, Epic's aspirational Samaritan demo looks a bit better than the best games on the market today, but does it really look so much better that it will compel consumers to shell out hundreds of dollars for a new console? The fact that Microsoft and Sony are holding off in releasing their own improved systems suggests the market might not be itching to pay for slightly improved graphics—at least not yet.

Nintendo is obviously taking a calculated risk here, after being driven to move first by a quickly cratering market for Wii hardware and software. If it can strike the perfect balance between novelty, low price and hardware that's "good enough" to have lasting appeal, the strategy might pay off. But it's definitely going to be a tough needle to thread.


http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...tion-hardware-power.ars?clicked=related_right
 

Kelegacy

XBOX - RECORD ME LOVING DOWN MY WOMAN GOOD
So if Nintendo is being forced to move first this gen because of a dying Wii with almost no software, won't that be the case next gen too? The Wii was by far the weakest of the consoles this generation and that's probably partially to blame for it's early demise (the 360 is older and is still going strong), so won't the Wii U suffer the same if it is released against consoles much more powerful?

This upcoming will certainly be fun to watch how it all plays out. I hope MS and Sony do release a system in 2013, but if they don't, that would be a very staggered console generation. Has any system ever had a 2 year headstart? And would that mean the Wii U successor could come out just 2 years after the PS4/Xbox 3? I don't like the possiblity of a new console option coming out every 2 years. Though I guess the Wii 3 would essentially be as powerful as a PS4/Xbox 3.
 
So if Nintendo is being forced to move first this gen because of a dying Wii with almost no software, won't that be the case next gen too? The Wii was by far the weakest of the consoles this generation and that's probably partially to blame for it's early demise (the 360 is older and is still going strong), so won't the Wii U suffer the same if it is released against consoles much more powerful?

This upcoming will certainly be fun to watch how it all plays out. I hope MS and Sony do release a system in 2013, but if they don't, that would be a very staggered console generation. Has any system ever had a 2 year headstart? And would that mean the Wii U successor could come out just 2 years after the PS4/Xbox 3? I don't like the possiblity of a new console option coming out every 2 years. Though I guess the Wii 3 would essentially be as powerful as a PS4/Xbox 3.

It's almost like Nintendo is trying to setup for a repeat of this generation (slightly better current gen graphics with unique tablet controller), which I personally think is stupid.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
It's almost like Nintendo is trying to setup for a repeat of this generation (slightly better current gen graphics with unique tablet controller), which I personally think is stupid.

What are you talking about?

Nintendo's board of directors would be doing naked cartwheels if next generation was a repeat of this generation.
 
What are you talking about?

Nintendo's board of directors would be doing naked cartwheels if next generation was a repeat of this generation.

Well, it's different now with the emergence of smart phones and tablet platforms. Nintendo might again get shuned by 3rd parties because of weak hardware in comaprison to Xbox Next and PS4. Right now, Wii U is going to get up ports like what happened to the Wii with PS2.
 
So if Nintendo is being forced to move first this gen because of a dying Wii with almost no software, won't that be the case next gen too? The Wii was by far the weakest of the consoles this generation and that's probably partially to blame for it's early demise (the 360 is older and is still going strong), so won't the Wii U suffer the same if it is released against consoles much more powerful?

With respect to avoiding a Wii-like situation, it depends on just how scalable next-gen middleware is, which is still a giant question mark. If Wii U is powerful enough to run any UE4 game at 30fps on low/medium settings, there shouldn't be much of an issue. If it isn't, Nintendo may have a pretty big problem on its hands sometime in 2014 or so.

...that said, there are plenty of hypothetical reasons unrelated to specs for why Wii U might get lacking third-party support (weak sales of multiplatform titles early on, historically poor relations with Western third parties, to name a few).
 

Shion

Member
Nintendo might again get shuned by 3rd parties because of weak hardware in comaprison to Xbox Next and PS4.

Seriously though, even if they don't (doubtful imo), who is going to care about these last-gen looking versions of 3rd party games? Beside hardcore Nintendo fanboys, I don't see how there's a market for this.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Well, it's different now with the emergence of smart phones and tablet platforms. Nintendo might again get shuned by 3rd parties because of weak hardware in comaprison to Xbox Next and PS4. Right now, Wii U is going to get up ports like what happened to the Wii with PS2.

The 3rd party situation is only going to get worse for Nintendo.
 
Seriously though, even if they don't (doubtful imo), who is going to care about these last-gen looking versions of 3rd party games? Beside hardcore Nintendo fanboys, I don't see how there's a market for this.

Well, if Nintendo does enough things right in Wii U's first year (NiN feature-competitive with PSN/XBL, securing quality versions of the key multiplatform titles, providing exclusive first-party software aimed at the PS3/360 core demographic), they should in theory be able to secure a decent chunk of that core market before either Sony or Microsoft launches their next consoles.

That's a pretty big "if," though.

The 3rd party situation is only going to get worse for Nintendo.

I don't really see how it could get any worse than it was on Wii, so I doubt that.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Seriously though, even if they don't (doubtful imo), who is going to care about these last-gen looking versions of 3rd party games? Beside hardcore Nintendo fanboys, I don't see how there's a market for this.

I honestly don't think Nintendo cares about courting the PS360 fanboys. They did a fantastic job this generation sales-wise and they really don't need that market to succeed if they keep making new, unique ways to play and draw in new gamers (i.e., motion control with the Wii, tablet/streaming with the Wii U, etc).
 
I think right now it might seem serviceable because we don't have any idea what real next gen stuff will look like. In 2004/05 we probably thought GC/Xbox level hardware would be "good enough" but as the years went on, and we started getting more and more advanced 360/PS3/PC games the gap widened. I do think the fact that at least this time the system will be HD will cause it to be a smaller gap. With the Wii, even the good looking games were hard to look at because SD makes everything look shitty.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
I think right now it might seem serviceable because we don't have any idea what real next gen stuff will look like. In 2004/05 we probably thought GC/Xbox level hardware would be "good enough" but as the years went on, and we started getting more and more advanced 360/PS3/PC games the gap widened. I do think the fact that at least this time the system will be HD will cause it to be a smaller gap. With the Wii, even the good looking games were hard to look at because SD makes everything look shitty.

Using flat screens with crap upscalers for games makes things look shitty.
 
I honestly don't think Nintendo cares about courting the PS360 fanboys. They did a fantastic job this generation sales-wise and they really don't need that market to succeed if they keep making new, unique ways to play and draw in new gamers (i.e., motion control with the Wii, tablet/streaming with the Wii U, etc).

They need to at least make more of a serious effort at courting the core PS360 audience, because it's far from guaranteed that they'll be able to capture lightning in a bottle with the casual audience to the same degree that they did with Wii Sports et al (see: Wii Music, Iwata's statements to the effect that AR Games/Face Raiders would be 3DS' Wii Sports).
 

Grymm

Banned
It really is hard to think about the WiiUs power and controller and probable online situation and not just bust out laughing at this point. I know we have to be sensitive to Nintendo fans and be civil but wow Nintendo doesn't make it easy.
 

theBishop

Banned
This is what I always expected, and still expect.

But the thing I'm most anxious to see is how Nintendo even operates at the level of modern video game development. Even with the benefit of mature technology, well-understood expectations, strong content creation tools, and maybe even a little extra hardware oompf, what teams inside Nintendo can deliver the level of production as Uncharted 3, Alan Wake, Portal 2, etc?

Very few games on Wii even try to match the top tier of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube generation.

Is Nintendo going to target "core" gamers with WiiU?

Will they place an emphasis on new franchises that lend themselves to modern(ish) technology?
 
Has Nintendo hinted at all what res they will be targeting for their own games? 60 FPS being a given for Nintendo where it matters, I assume, but 720p or 1080p?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
They need to at least make more of a serious effort at courting the core PS360 audience, because it's far from guaranteed that they'll be able to capture lightning in a bottle with the casual audience to the same degree that they did with Wii Sports et al (see: Wii Music, Iwata's statements to the effect that AR Games/Face Raiders would be 3DS' Wii Sports).

I agree, but the only way to do that is to convince 3rd parties to put out good games for the system. Apparently, the only way to do that is to put out a graphical powerhouse, based on the info we heard in the other Wii U thread.
 

udivision

Member
It really is hard to think about the WiiUs power and controller and probable online situation and not just bust out laughing at this point. I know we have to be sensitive to Nintendo fans and be civil but wow Nintendo doesn't make it easy.

What's wrong with the controller?

This is what I always expected, and still expect.

But the thing I'm most anxious to see is how Nintendo even operates at the level of modern video game development. Even with the benefit of mature technology, well-understood expectations, strong content creation tools, and maybe even a little extra hardware oompf, what teams inside Nintendo can deliver the level of production as Uncharted 3, Alan Wake, Portal 2, etc?

Very few games on Wii even try to match the top tier of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube generation.

Is Nintendo going to target "core" gamers with WiiU?

Will they place an emphasis on new franchises that lend themselves to modern(ish) technology?

I'm betting Nintendo will leave that to the third-parties.
 

WillyFive

Member
I think the difference between the Wii U and the 360/PS3 will be the same as the difference between the 3DS and the PSP.

At first glance, both the 3DS and PSP are totally the same; but then you notice that the framerates for the games are actually decent, and the games don't have those ugly low-res textures everywhere.

So we could be seeing something that at first glance seems like a 360 or a PS3, with small differences (like maybe less low-res shadows, less texture pop-in, less screen tearing, higher framerates, a tendency to use 720p instead of 640-something, and a slightly higher number of games with AA.) It's nothing that will convince the average person that there is any difference at all; but it will feel different.
 
I agree, but the only way to do that is to convince 3rd parties to put out good games for the system. Apparently, the only way to do that is to put out a graphical powerhouse, based on the info we heard in the other Wii U thread.

We'll see. There's plenty of reason for skepticism, but I'm not jumping to any conclusions about Wii U's third party support until E3, unless we start hearing some really bleak things before then (like, say, a flat-out denial of GTAV coming to the system, or confirmation that it can't run UE4 at all).
 
Mario Kart 8: This Time, There's a Little Screen in the Controller and Junk

I would seriously buy a MK game for the first time in 11 years if that was the actual title.
 

udivision

Member
This is in the context of Nintendo eschewing modern standards of development (and presumably not investing in new franchises). Even if you're right, would you really be happy about it?

In that case, they'd probably get 2nd parties like retro and mistwalker to target the core.

I wouldn't be happy with another last-gen Zelda experience...at all.
You keep saying that but I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean Zelda HD being "last gen" by the time 720/ps4 is out? Or that the next 3d Zelda will be similar to the last?
 
Mario Kart's really terrible, though. Nobody even actually likes it. Millions of people buy it and it just pisses them all off. It's weird. It's shitty and weird.
 
Not everyone wants to keep around ancient tube tvs just for their Wii and other old ass systems. It was a detriment to a lot of people.

It's amazing how many people miss this fact when talking about "how good Wii games look". SD sucks.

So we could be seeing something that at first glance seems like a 360 or a PS3, with small differences (like maybe less low-res shadows, less texture pop-in, less screen tearing, higher framerates, a tendency to use 720p instead of 640-something, and a slightly higher number of games with AA.) It's nothing that will convince the average person that there is any difference at all; but it will feel different.

It's not so much current-gen, as the next-gen machines. The HD will help, sure, but if both MS and Sony are going for a generational leap? It'll look worse.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
I love Mario Kart. :I

To be honest though, the Samaritan demo didn't really impress me at all. I think I might be the only one.

I still want the Wii U to be able to play the next gen round of games, though.
 

nordique

Member
I love Mario Kart. :I

To be honest though, the Samaritan demo didn't really impress me at all. I think I might be the only one.

I still want the Wii U to be able to play the next gen round of games, though.

It very likely will, because the architecture will be capable. It's going to be a "modern" graphics card.



It just won't be the prettiest version (it will be downscaled)
 
Top Bottom