yeah i don't understand this. i was planning on buying hot shots tennis and motorstorm soon (among others) too. i was also looking at getting daxter.
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DD Fraud: Sony is Embezzling 2 Games from Me (Everybody's Tennis/Motorstor:AE)
- Thread starter kadotsu
- Start date
yeah i don't understand this. i was planning on buying hot shots tennis and motorstorm soon (among others) too. i was also looking at getting daxter.
Sorry, is it not permitted?
It's permitted, just not relevant.
test_account
XP-39C²
No, it doesnt matter why, that is exactly why i wrote "just out of curiousity. I didnt assume anything, i just asked a simple question, there wasnt anything more to it than that
So it isnt a fact at all. I dont mean to be rude, but you shouldnt really accuse people of things just because you think there is something written in between the lines. I hate when people falsely accuse other like this. Sorry, i dont mean to attack you, but i really dont like to be accused about stuff that i havnt said or done. If you have doubt about something or are wondering about something, then ask instead, dont accuse people and say that it is a fact when it isnt. I know that such a question can look like something else, but that is exactly why i wrote "just out of curiosity" before i asked the question.
Why would it be illegal and unethical to run a few homebrew applications? First i dont think that this is illegal, and second i dont see why anyone would concider this unethical.
If he had answered "it was just a coincidence that i wanted to try these games right now" or "i wanted to try out homebrew on the Vita", it would be great answers regardless. It was just a simple question out of pure curiousity, nothing more to it.
At least Hot Shots Tennis IS cheaper physically. The demo was pretty fun, but of course they're assholes and pulled THAT as well.
Like I said, today you were able to get a Vita+8GB Mem+15 off a game for 219 at amazon. I wanted to pre-load some of my favorite PSP games (because I needed them in "bubble" form). When I got to ET I couldn't DL it. I knew about the circumstances around Motorstorm but I didn't know ET had the same issue. And Sony didn't help me by giving this information.
The SDF has no answers for this one, so they attack the timing of the post. Crazy talk.
I have had every model of PSP and I own a Vita. I haven't had any of my games yanked, but if I did, I'd be all over Sony to get them back too.
I've been a victim too. I got accused of piracy and they wouldn't accept evidence that I had proof of purchase for all disc based titles registered on my account. I'm guessing someone with a keygen stumbled upon one of my cd keys prior to my registration and they deemed me the pirate. In any case I wasn't able to get anywhere with customer service and now only use Steam for cheap indie games.
Technically you're only getting a license to access software and not full ownership with physically distributed copies as well. It is more of an issue of not allowing people to claim ownership of specifics components of the game and attempting to reuse them. Hopefully this practice gets regulated in some fashion, but there is no reason an internet connected device can't restrict access to physically distributed software. Forced firmware updates are just a small step in that direction.
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't think this constitutes "embezzlement."
I see.
Besides waiting for a patch or wanting your money back, I don't see what can done anymore.
Are they remotely removing the games from Vitas or just from the store?
If its only the latter then what's the big deal? What you paid for isn't a licence to download the game over and over until the end of time. Its no different to a company shutting down MMO servers.
Shit, its really no different to a company removing a boxed product from shelves. You paid your money but if you lose your disc the company isn't obliged to replace it for you.
DD goes the same way. Even on GoG you can download games DRM free and play them forever as long as you keep the install files but GoG could go under or remove games from their store and if you wipe your HDD, you're shit out of luck.
If its only the latter then what's the big deal? What you paid for isn't a licence to download the game over and over until the end of time. Its no different to a company shutting down MMO servers.
Shit, its really no different to a company removing a boxed product from shelves. You paid your money but if you lose your disc the company isn't obliged to replace it for you.
DD goes the same way. Even on GoG you can download games DRM free and play them forever as long as you keep the install files but GoG could go under or remove games from their store and if you wipe your HDD, you're shit out of luck.
test_account
XP-39C²
It is only removed from the store. The problem is that these are PSP games and some people might have bought the a long time ago. I did that with Motorstorm: Arctic Edge. I already have it on my PSP, but if i want to play it on my Vita now, then i cant. (i acutally did try it on my Vita around launch, but i deleted it to save space).
I had never realized the Hot Shots people made a Tennis game for PSP!
I'd buy that in .5 seconds. Oh well, wasn't available in my store, BEFORE the exploit was found...
Sony's whole DD on this thing is driving me batty. If there is big changes coming, or we are waiting for pssuite or whatever, just fucking communicate with us, its totally infuriating.
I'd buy that in .5 seconds. Oh well, wasn't available in my store, BEFORE the exploit was found...
Sony's whole DD on this thing is driving me batty. If there is big changes coming, or we are waiting for pssuite or whatever, just fucking communicate with us, its totally infuriating.
RedNumberFive
Banned
It's a big deal when Sony is heavily promoting a digitally distributed future. Especially with these obscenely expensive memory cards. Sure, they have the right to pull things from the store on a whim, but they're not building any sort of confidence with consumers to buy digitally. It's a raw deal through and through.
Marty Chinn
Member
But the whole point of DD is the ease of access and being able to get your content whenever you want. That's one of the big selling points and benefits of it. The big difference in your analogy is if a boxed copy gets removed from the shelf, you still have ways of obtaining the game again. The same isn't so when your sole source is through a server with no other viable means.
test_account
XP-39C²
In my opinion, it is mostly a big deal if they permantely remove the game. If the game is not accessible for a month or so, i can deal with that, but it sucks more if it is permanetely, especially if no refund is being offered.
Yeah, but there the downside of DD you're not seeing, they can remove the game from the store if they want. Even services like Steam can and will if it's necessary.
Listen. I'm not going to start a thread for this, although I want to...
typing www.playstation.com in my browser takes me to Sony's Japanese site. Really?
typing www.playstation.com in my browser takes me to Sony's Japanese site. Really?
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm not saying otherwise. I hate DD and am pro physical copy for the very reason that this thread is about. I'm just saying you can't argue that people shouldn't expect to be able to redownload because that is supposed to be one of the perks.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
It redirects you to the local site based on the IP. Just add UK or US before Playstation.com and you're good to go.
I'm in NY. I work for a major company, but we don't have a class A.
Took me to the UK one. They've got terrible IP locating then (or I went to the UK one before and so they "corrected it".)
EDIT: Yeah, going there in an incognito window fixed it.
test_account
XP-39C²
Same here. But using a proxy i get redirected. And funnily enough, if i just write "playstation.com", without the www, then i get redirected as well =)
EDIT: Using Internet Explorer gets me redirected at once too. Are you using Firefox? (i am).
Kotaku hasn't completed their daily NeoGaf browse for news. It'll be up any minute now.
If it doesn't someone could probably submit it to them. This IS the kind of thing that'd probably draw a decent number of hits, "SONY TAKES AWAY GAMES PEOPLE BOUGHT" or whatever.
If you pay for a license you get access to the game. If sony revoke your license to play it for whatever reason, they owe you a refund. Otherwise they are thieves.
Neuromancer
Member
Hate to say it but shit like this doesn't even surprise me any more. Par for the course with Sony.
It actually does.
fabricated backlash
Member
You get full ownership over the physical copy. You don't however purchase any ownership over it's content. The physical copy allows you to use the content on it. The seller however at no time has the right to deny you access to this content after purchase is completed.
Don't confuse ownership of a copy, with ownership of intellectual property. You buy a book and that copy is yours, and neither the author nor the publisher have any legal ground to revoke your use of this copy without offering a full refund. And while the copy is your property, you have in no way acquired rights to the IP.
Games are the same. And i find it dangerously unhealthy that people are believing publishers when they tell them otherwise.
test_account
XP-39C²
Removing stuff for sale that can be used for exploits, got bugs/performance issues or that are breaking store policy etc. isnt that uncommon though, so i dont think that this is much a surprise. It is still too early to say if it will be removed permanently, and if that is the case, it is also too early to say if any refunds will be issued. Games like Mercury and Patapon were both removed back in the days for the same reason, but they are available on the PS Store right now, so it should be fixable. Or are you referring to the answer that Sony support in Germany gave?
Four_Chamber
Member
Shocked at how muted the anger over this move is here at GAF. Dick move by Sony
RedNumberFive
Banned
DangerousDave
Member
Probably they will fix the exploit in the next firmware update and then they'll put again the games on the store, because you'll need to update the firmware to connect to the store, like happened before with other games.
Even if Sony is who took out the games, we know why they took them out. I don't see anyone here blaming the hackers that found the exploits, putting Sony in the situation of taking out the games or allowing a hack exploit.
But, at least, Sony should do a clear explanation for someone that bought the game, telling the problem and the ETA of the fix.
Even if Sony is who took out the games, we know why they took them out. I don't see anyone here blaming the hackers that found the exploits, putting Sony in the situation of taking out the games or allowing a hack exploit.
But, at least, Sony should do a clear explanation for someone that bought the game, telling the problem and the ETA of the fix.
Shit, now I'm afraid of buy from SEN. What if I buy a $50.00 game at work using the vita, and when I get home and try do download it using my ps3, I found that they discovered an exploit in the game and I can no longer download it, even if I already paid?
I have 150+ steam games, and I never heard of something like this before. I also have tons of virtual console games and a handful of ps3 games.
I think I won't use SEN to buy DD games anymore.
I have 150+ steam games, and I never heard of something like this before. I also have tons of virtual console games and a handful of ps3 games.
I think I won't use SEN to buy DD games anymore.
lol okay. My bad Steam. Its the customers fault after all.
cant argue with that. Steam can do no wrong.
It's easier to say "buy a game" than to say "buy the license to use the game under the terms of the EULA".
There are a number of issues with Vita's launch (a system that I adore, btw) that are not huge giant deals, but are all annoying. (PSone, Psp games available via PS3 but not vita store, worst browser in history, etc)
The main problem in all of this is Sony's refusal for any transparency or openness with their customers in any way. They refuse to communicate at all. I thought they learned their lesson after all the bad press they got for being giant pussies to afraid to admit their network security was garbage and that they got embarassed by some kid in a basement.
The main problem in all of this is Sony's refusal for any transparency or openness with their customers in any way. They refuse to communicate at all. I thought they learned their lesson after all the bad press they got for being giant pussies to afraid to admit their network security was garbage and that they got embarassed by some kid in a basement.
Then maybe they should start listing them on PSN or whatever acronym they changed to and say in big bold text: "Rent this game for $9.95. BTW we can stop you playing it any time and you dont get a refund!"
If they represented what they sell accurately, no-one would buy them. The fact that they are obfuscating customer rights behind dubious EULAs instead of telling them straight up means that they are misrepresenting the product they sell in spirit (if not to the letter of the law).
But in the end, you "only bought the license". That's fine - but if they revoke that license for no reason that is the fault of the customer, then they owe them a full refund. If they dont refund them, then that makes Sony thieves.
All this will do is have a very obvious flow-on effect.
1. Customer buys DD game
2. Company revokes their access, does not refund customer and tells them to suck it.
3. Customer either a) pirates their games or b) buys elsewhere.
With any luck, publishers that resort to stealing games from their paying customers will either go bankrupt or learn quickly not to be arseholes.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
It's not that Valve can do no wrong. Others can testify that I rail on Valve's poor customer service constantly but you didn't even try. You gave up. Again, Valve can't fix a problem that they don't know exists. It's akin to going into a store, buying something, leaving, putting the product down on the ground in front of the business, and never coming back to pick it up AND THEN railing against the owner for not contacting you.
Come on.
The issue isn't IP based, but covering how consumption of software works. You're not buying direct access to the content, but a specific way of interact with that content. It isn't (usually) intended that you just have direct access to specific audio, art, or content files and it especially isn't intended to allow you to claim ownership of those individual files because companies want to restrict redistribution and usage of those parts.
Books are a bad example because you can't really dissect the book for its parts, it is built to be consumed as a whole. And I'm not claiming it is right or wrong to allow complete restriction of something you paid for, but the reality of software is that you don't own anything but directed access to it based on terms presented to you by the developers.
MrMephistoX
Member
Be productive and either call Sony customer service or post this to their facebook wall and Twitter: you'll be sure to get a response provided you don't post in an unprofessional manner.
The reason you're not seeing the rage you expected is because it doesn't work this way. Any copy you had from before it coming down still works fine. Not particularly consumer-friendly, but the average uninformed user is probably gonna assume it works like iTunes (which is buy once, redownload never)
rollingstart
Banned
Don't know if others brought it up, but the most annoying thing Sony's done regarding digital distribution is change how PSP games transfer from the PS3 through a firmware update. It meant that even if you backed up all your PSP games on your PS3's hard drive, like I did, they all became useless after updating the firmware. I had to redownload several gigs of games just to have a fresh set of copies backed up.
At worst Sony could have removed the option to purchase the games without taking them off the store entirely, which is what I think Steam did with Crysis 2. Point is backing up downloaded games is important, and it's why I like GoG for providing DRM free games. But that Sony can invalidate your backups with a firmware update is crazy.
Also, Hot Shots Tennis and Motorstorm AE are really great games. Sucks it had to be those two.
At worst Sony could have removed the option to purchase the games without taking them off the store entirely, which is what I think Steam did with Crysis 2. Point is backing up downloaded games is important, and it's why I like GoG for providing DRM free games. But that Sony can invalidate your backups with a firmware update is crazy.
Also, Hot Shots Tennis and Motorstorm AE are really great games. Sucks it had to be those two.