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[Refreshment.01]

I read the whole thread and never once saw a call for these complaints to be silenced.

You are not seeing people grilling AgentOtaku, even suggesting him how the thread should be named? Anyway, its a trivial thing to argue, so leave it at that please.

So now "facts" are based on how many people claim something? You could say it is a fact that many people have an issue with the controls, but you can't say it's a fact that the controls are an issue. At best it's a widespread subjective opinion.

This is incredible, so complains for a significant part of your user base should be ignored? There are issues with the control set up, some of them related to ergonomics which impelled Nintendo to even include a stand. Like i said before, i didn't claim the controls are broken however there are some quirks to them.

Anyway i shouldn't be surprised, i had arguments with people defending Nintendo decision to not include the second pad with as much passion as some of you have to defend this game for not having any quirks in its control set up.

How many reviews does it take to make something factual?

Just love how you dismissed my reply and chose to focus in the review angle solely, the old spin around in circles tactic. Your question has been addressed in the very post to which you are replying, my only advice is to get back and ponder about it. And check this one:

The inclusion of a stand with every copy is a pretty bloody big red flag though.

Start grilling him now

Anyway, it's your ego or appreciation to the game hurt by admitting there can be some issues with the control method? How are these not real, when you are witnessing more frequent complains regarding controls than usual?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

This is incredible, so complains for a significant part of your user base should be ignored? There are issues with the control set up, some of them related to ergonomics which impelled Nintendo to even include a stand. Like i said before, i didn't claim the controls are broken however there are some quirks to them.

Anyway i shouldn't be surprised, i had arguments with people defending Nintendo decision to not include the second pad with as much passion as some of you have to defend this game for not having any quirks in its control set up.

Please show me where I said that complaints for a significant part of your user base should be ignored.

Start grilling him now

Fine with me, Dave is always a pretty decent guy to have a conversation with in my experience.

 

[frequency]

I'm not fully familiar with the aiming yet, but I'm getting the hang of it.
It's the ground stuff that I don't think I'll ever get. Even something like dashing or strafing is a struggle for me. Spinning the camera is very difficult and makes melee impossible for me.

I don't have a solution. All I know is that it's very hard to play and that's really dragging the entire experience down for me right now. I want to love it more because the idea is great, the music is great, and I love the Pit/Palutena interactions. It's just such a struggle to actually play.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Going to have to agree. Controls are preeeetty bad.

 

[daffy]

Yeah, I've voiced my opinion of the controls. They just aren't comfortable with the 3DS design. Its a constant clash. I wouldn't really recommend Kid Icarus to anyone because of it.

 

[Darryl]

this game has already been held accountable for the controls via review scores. are we talking about lawsuits or something? do people really think they're that bad? i'm loving them

it's like people got tired of being the minority opinion in the kid icarus thread so they decided to make their own

 

[SmokyDave]

Why? To me it just says, "hey, this game probably won't be very comfortable to play without this stand." That statement in and of itself doesn't really offend me, I just use the stand and the game is perfectly comfortable and enjoyable.

I've said it at least five times by now but I'll say it again: stand + lap pillow = blissful KI experience.

I'd agree with that. I'd suggest that the inclusion of the stand suggests Nintendo realised that the controls (or ergonomics whilst using the controls) were sub-optimal. Not broken or anything, just not ideal. There's definitely an 'issue' there, although that doesn't mean they ought to be raked across hot coals for it.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I'd agree with that. I'd suggest that the inclusion of the stand suggests Nintendo realised that the controls (or ergonomics whilst using the controls) were sub-optimal. Not broken or anything, just not ideal. There's definitely an 'issue' there, although that doesn't mean they ought to be raked across hot coals for it.

Totally agree. Personally I find the game somewhat difficult to play without the stand (although I managed for the first few hours during my "the stand is stupid and pointless" period) --- it is definitely not ideal. If someone asked me whether or not they should buy this game and they told me that they could only play it while standing on a train or something I would tell them to proceed with caution.

 

[friskykillface]

Wonder if more people will complain and return their copies to amazon, think I saw a couple in customer reviews say they might do that.

As for me, I've played about 10 hours and while the controls take some time getting used to I'm glad there are different options.
I'm happy the "move with buttons and aim with the analog" control is there and vice versa, much easier then using the touchscreen for that.

Great game though B^)

 

[WallJump]

L/Stylus controls for me are just fine. If I do have a complaint though it's that using the 3DS stand on something like a coffee table can put a hurtin' on the upper back, having to hunch over it and all. If I put a pillow on my lap and use that it's not as much of an issue.

 

[UncleSporky]

Your question has been addressed in the very post to which you are replying

It's not though. You didn't provide a number. I suggested perhaps 5 minor reviews might be enough to make a complaint factual, but I don't know for sure until you enlighten me.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Lots of people with KI avatars defending the controls in here. I can't believe this wasn't mentioned before "virtual thumb", and "a,x,b,y," analog options (really?). Paying 13 bucks to get a grip helps a lot, even with this grip, the controls on foot are still not great, but the claw-hand basically goes away.

Again:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AWE8yS3tL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Don't think I could play Starfox or Icarus without this.

Oh shit dude. This is like exactly what I want for my 3DS. Thank you!

 

[dark10x]

It's not though. You didn't provide a number. I suggested perhaps 5 minor reviews might be enough to make a complaint factual, but I don't know for sure until you enlighten me.

Are you seriously pushing this? There's no point in arguing over this.

Whether "factual" or not, it's clear that Nintendo saw some potential issues with the controls in this game as evidenced by the inclusion of the stand.

 

[daffy]

this game has already been held accountable for the controls via review scores. are we talking about lawsuits or something? do people really think they're that bad? i'm loving them

it's like people got tired of being the minority opinion in the kid icarus thread so they decided to make their own

No, this thread is what happens when people try to downplay complaints, like in the OT. If people in there would just try to understand instead of talking smack like "being coddled on dual analogue" or "bbbut unconventional stylus control is 100% perfect ALL THE TIME" this would probably not exist..

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Why? To me it just says, "hey, this game probably won't be very comfortable to play without this stand." That statement in and of itself doesn't really offend me, I just use the stand and the game is perfectly comfortable and enjoyable.

Controls should be comfortable in this day and age. Controls not being comfortable is an issue.

It's not as if there were only a few people that thought the controls were awkward, uncomfortable and unpleasant and Nintendo decided to include the stands with every copy of the game out of the kindness of their hearts.

They felt that controls were enough of an issue that it could affect the purchasing decision if they didn't include an accessory to mitigate some of that.

 

[chickdigger802]

Controls do take a while to get used to...

But did anyone else not predict them to be a bit iffy?

Heck I pretty much got this for KI a while back

Works great!


Or... idk, maybe you should wank off for a few months with your left hand to build wrist power.

 

[Tuck]

The controls are uncomfortable, but I find that they work pretty well. Maybe not the best, but I've gotten used to them.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Boy...you people are being granular today.

Controls should be comfortable in this day and age. Controls not being comfortable is an issue.

It's not as if there were only a few people that thought the controls were awkward, uncomfortable and unpleasant and Nintendo decided to include the stands with every copy of the game out of the kindness of their hearts.

They felt that controls were enough of an issue that it could affect the purchasing decision if they didn't include an accessory to mitigate some of that.

But they are comfortable to me. Or are we just going to pretend like the stand doesn't exist?

 

[StAidan]

The more I read the control complaints, the more I think the core problem is more related to the non-standardness of the controls rather than inherent flaws in the scheme itself.

Sure, a number of people dislike the controls, but they don't all agree on where the problem lies.

Some hate it because it's unkind to lefties, others hate it because they can't play it without the stand, and still others hate the fine lines between the walk/dash/dodge circle pad controls.

Finally, some people believe dual analog controls would fix it, and others think the solution is something else entirely.

 

[frequency]

I've never tried a grip for a handheld before. Do they really make a huge difference? Which one is recommended? I would be willing to try if the price is low enough.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I would like to point out that reviewers have held the game accountable for the controls. There have been a lot of mixed reviews, due entirely to the controls.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I'd agree with that. I'd suggest that the inclusion of the stand suggests Nintendo realised that the controls (or ergonomics whilst using the controls) were sub-optimal. Not broken or anything, just not ideal. There's definitely an 'issue' there, although that doesn't mean they ought to be raked across hot coals for it.

Totally agree. Personally I find the game somewhat difficult to play without the stand (although I managed for the first few hours during my "the stand is stupid and pointless" period) --- it is definitely not ideal. .

Hehehe So it was a matter of argue for the sake of it and problems with the poster not the argument. Gotcha the Darkest, basically you always agreed with me.

Doesn't that mean that the controls are less likely to be an issue?

Does the inclusion of a wheel with Mario Kart mean they were admitting that button controls were sub-par?

Not a sound argument, one relates to immersion the other to ergonomics, guess to which one applies.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Hehehe So it was a matter of argue for the sake of it and problems with the poster not the argument. Gotcha the Darkest, basically you always agreed with me.

The important point here is that it is my opinion that the game is not very comfortable to play without the stand. It isn't a factual statement (regardless of how many people might share that opinion with me). That's what I was arguing with you about.

 

[zroid]

kind of off topic, but the stand is totally awesome for watching Nintendo Show 3D, Nintendo Video and other such 3D video content.

 

[chickdigger802]

I've never tried a grip for a handheld before. Do they really make a huge difference? Which one is recommended? I would be willing to try if the price is low enough.

lol the one I got was like 10 bucks on amazon.

And yes grips are pretty much the only way to use the dpad comfortably.

 

[codhand]

wank off for a few months with your left hand to build wrist power

It would take a Kid Icarus thread to recommend profuse masturbation as a solution to poor control options.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Ten minutes of acclimation and I really couldn't imagine playing this any other way. You'd get your ass kicked online with dual sticks.

bbbut unconventional stylus control is 100% perfect ALL THE TIME" this would probably not exist..

No one's saying this.

 

[Phife Dawg]

I did read your post originally, I'm not being dense.

You clearly think they should have more options, but you worded it as such that they would purely be for individuals who do not wish to tackle the higher difficulty levels. As if it would be somehow impossible or extremely more challenging to tackle the higher intensity levels with a dual analog control scheme. I do have the game, I've completed the story mode on varying degrees of difficulty and had some fun in multiplayer. Dual analog would not be a significant disadvantage towards higher levels of play - however you wish to phrase it.

Why were you claiming I was making excuses then? Or insinuating that I claimed they did not include dual analogue because the game is not suited to that? I did neither.

Anyway, dual analogue would be a significant disadvantage - however you wish it weren't so. Just go ahead and try analogue aiming at intensity 9.

But having a significant disadvantage doesn't mean they shouldn't put dual analogue in, after all they already have analogue aiming in there.

The more I read the control complaints, the more I think the core problem is more related to the non-standardness of the controls rather than inherent flaws in the scheme itself.

Sure, a number of people dislike the controls, but they don't all agree on where the problem lies.

Some hate it because it's unkind to lefties, others hate it because they can't play it without the stand, and still others hate the fine lines between the walk/dash/dodge circle pad controls.

Finally, some people believe dual analog controls would fix it, and others think the solution is something else entirely.

There is one problem: For all the options they delivered they left some very obvious ones out for whatever reason. Why can we aim with the left circle pad and use the face buttons to move but no dual analogue support? Why can we adjust sens, globe spinning etc. but have no option to shrink the bounding box? These two options would not have fixed anything for me because I don't have problems with the controls but these are legitimate complaints. Have no problems with the dashing though - you just have to be careful.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

But they are comfortable to me. Or are we just going to pretend like the stand doesn't exist?

That's cool, but you're not the baseline. If more people had been like you are regarding the controls, there would be no stand.

Clearly there were enough people to make it a concern. Which means the comfort levels are not where they should be.

For me...I play Kid Icarus less than I would like because I like to use/need the stand and for a game on a portable device, an accessory like that isn't exactly convenient.

Also...the left bumper as the "trigger" appears to be the biggest psychological hurdle for me. I can't explain why but I'm not a point yet where I no longer have to think about doing what I want when it comes to using the left bumper.

 

[Busaiku]

Did you ever play The World Ends With You?
This game's a lot like that.

 

[Skilletor]

No, this thread is what happens when people try to downplay complaints, like in the OT. If people in there would just try to understand instead of talking smack like "being coddled on dual analogue" or "bbbut unconventional stylus control is 100% perfect ALL THE TIME" this would probably not exist..

I got some helpful suggestions in the OT, but decided not to go back and discuss the game after reading stuff like I must suck at games, and somebody was glad they're superior at games since the controls aren't a problem for them.

Did you ever play The World Ends With You?
This game's a lot like that.

How? There's no camera to control in TWEWY. I never have to use the shoulder buttons in that game.

There is one problem: For all the options they delivered they left some very obvious ones out for whatever reason. Why can we aim with the left circle pad and use the face buttons to move but no dual analogue support? Why can we adjust sens, globe spinning etc. but have no option to shrink the bounding box? These two options would not have fixed anything for me because I don't have problems with the controls but these are legitimate complaints. Have no problems with the dashing though - you just have to be careful.

I don't know if it's a problem with my circle pad, but I have problems dashing to the right. It doesn't register a lot of the time. I have no problem dashing any other direction.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

That's cool, but you're not the baseline. If more people had been like you are regarding the controls, there would be no stand.

Clearly there were enough people to make it a concern. Which means the comfort levels are not where they should be.

For me...I play Kid Icarus less than I would like because I like to use/need the stand and for a game on a portable device, an accessory like that isn't exactly convenient.

I don't understand, if more people had been like me there would be no stand? My opinion is that the controls are uncomfortable without the stand and comfortable with it, and I don't mind using the stand because it is easy to setup and work with in any of the applications where I would want to play KI (in the car, on the couch, in bed).

I agree with you that the comfort levels are not where they should be without the stand.

Personally I think that Nintendo identified a comfort issue that many people were having with KI and their solution was the stand. In my opinion it is a fantastic solution because it allows me to play the game with what I consider to be the best possible control scheme and I can do so comfortably and easily.

 

[jufonuk]

Dual analog would make the game easier to play. It wouldn't make it better.

the option would be nice, but I am still getting used to the controls, granted I have only played about 40 Mins
I feel it will be a learning curve is all,
for me flight controls, No problem, ground combat.. hmm a bit iffy

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Did you ever play The World Ends With You?
This game's a lot like that.

Regarding unconventional controls? Sure.

I picked up TWEWY controls much faster than Kid Icarus...also..TWEWY has no accessory.

 

[heavyness]

I didn't read the whole thread, but has someone started a kickstarter to raise money to make Nintendo change this?

And while we are at it... has any played the entire game and seen the ending? We may want to ask for more money.

 

[UncleSporky]

Are you seriously pushing this? There's no point in arguing over this.

Whether "factual" or not, it's clear that Nintendo saw some potential issues with the controls in this game as evidenced by the inclusion of the stand.

He claimed he answered my question when he did not. Apparently he is of the opinion that those replying to him are claiming the controls aren't an issue, when the primary problem is his faulty reasoning. I'd say that's reasonable.

Ergo:

The important point here is that it is my opinion that the game is not very comfortable to play without the stand. It isn't a factual statement (regardless of how many people might share that opinion with me). That's what I was arguing with you about.

 

[codhand]

I didn't read the whole thread, but has someone started a kickstarter to raise money to make Nintendo change this?

And while we are at it... has any played the entire game and seen the ending? We may want to ask for more money.

I'll order the cupcakes.

 

[frequency]

Did you ever play The World Ends With You?
This game's a lot like that.

I don't agree.
The World Ends With You, at least for me, was more about getting to understand the combat on two screens at once.

Kid Icarus is more about how it's impossible for me to play in bed and how incredibly hard it is to actually make Pit turn how I want him to turn on the ground sections.

 

[Busaiku]

Regarding unconventional controls? Sure.

I picked up TWEWY controls much faster than Kid Icarus...also..TWEWY has no accessory.

I dunno, I picked up Kid Icarus Uprising much quicker than The World Ends With You, because I've been playing those kinds of games for a while now.

Also for all of you guys that are feeling pressure on your wrists, you definitely shouldn't be.
If you are, you're not in an ideal position, you shouldn't be moving your wrists much anyways, just the fingers holding the stylus.

I don't agree.
The World Ends With You, at least for me, was more about getting to understand the combat on two screens at once.

Well, I've found that at least with the Pins that required me to move Neku around, I've had to do about as much with Kid Icarus Uprising.
Don't really remember too much about Metroid Prime Hunter (only played the demo).

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Or maybe Nintendo included the stand because they already included so much other random shit in the box they might as well go full-out to give the game even more visibility.

Point being that the stand is equating to Nintendo admitting a fault is dumb logic. You guys can do way better than that.

Also, I think enough people have problems with Refreshment's logic that it's definitely factually problematic.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I don't understand, if more people had been like me there would be no stand? My opinion is that the controls are uncomfortable without the stand and comfortable with it, and I don't mind using the stand because it is easy to setup and work with in any of the applications where I would want to play KI (in the car, on the couch, in bed).

I agree with you that the comfort levels are not where they should be without the stand.

Personally I think that Nintendo identified a comfort issue that many people were having with KI and their solution was the stand. In my opinion it is a fantastic solution because it allows me to play the game with what I consider to be the best possible control scheme and I can do so comfortably and easily.

I think the stand does a fine job of addressing the concern but I think some people believe there shouldn't be a concern at all. There shouldn't be a stand, whether it works great or not as they feel an accessory such as that has no place with a portable gaming device.

Also...you play it in the car and in bed?

With the stand?

 

[ryushe]

Totally agree. Personally I find the game somewhat difficult to play without the stand

Odd, I only now use the stand to prop my 3DS up as a cradle since I can't use the proper cradle anymore thanks to the Nyko Powerpak that now resides at the backside of my unit.

I actually lay down on my back in my bed to play this game, holding the 3DS as I would any other game. Honestly, tweaking and getting use to how the game is played aside, I'd even go as far as to say that this is one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played from a gameplay perspective, rivaling perhaps even one of my favorites games, Bayonetta.

Also, the thread title is the thing that I think is bothering me as well as a lot of people, simply because this game is being held accountable for because of its controls. After being knees deep into this game, I am now a staunch believer that if this game had more approachable controls for everyone to enjoy, it would have gotten a lot more 4.5/9.5's or even perfect scores, because that's honestly the only "flawed" thing with this game from a mechanical and design stand point.


Still though, all this bickering from the haves (righties) to the have nots (lefties, jk) aside, It really does suck that there are some people out there that cannot fully enjoy the game because of its controls. I really do wish everyone could, because as it stands, this is already the best handheld I've ever played, and I'm not even done with the single player portion yet.

... Well, second best if hours are to be held accountable - 'cause Pokemon Pinball still holds that crown as I've played that game more hours than I'd ever care to admit to even myself.

 

[codhand]

Also for all of you guys that are feeling pressure on your wrists, you definitely shouldn't be.

No argument here.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Not to be that guy but son of a...

Its/it’s has two forms. One form has an apostrophe, spelled I-T-apostrophe-S, and is a contraction of it is or it has.

Here’s an example where it’s means it is: “Hooray! It’s time for grammar!” This means “Hooray, it is time for grammar.”

The other form of its has no apostrophe, it’s spelled I-T-S, and is the possessive form of the pronoun it, which you can use when you’re talking about something of or belonging to an “it.” Here's an example for where its signifies a possessive: "Its controls are broken."

In full form: Nintendo has some choices to make. It's considering sending the OP an apologetic singing telegram pleading for forgiveness for its terrible mistakes regarding the controls. It's a bad sign when a company like Nintendo releases its software in such a state. However it's going to be a cold day in hell before Nintendo sends its apologies. And folks like the OP should not get their hopes up because it's going to be a while before two %*its will be given by Nintendo and its employees."

 

[UncleSporky]

Or maybe Nintendo included the stand because they already included so much other random shit in the box they might as well go full-out to give the game even more visibility.

Point being that the stand is equating to Nintendo admitting a fault is dumb logic. You guys can do way better than that.

I truly do not believe this thread would've been made if the stand had not been included.

The sheer number of posts in this thread going buh buh buh they even included a stand!

 

[Skilletor]

Not to be that guy but son of a...

Its/it’s has two forms. One form has an apostrophe, spelled I-T-apostrophe-S, and is a contraction of it is or it has.

Here’s an example where it’s means it is: “Hooray! It’s time for grammar!” This means “Hooray, it is time for grammar.”

The other form of its has no apostrophe, it’s spelled I-T-S, and is the possessive form of the pronoun it, which you can use when you’re talking about something of or belonging to an “it.” Here's an example for where its signifies a possessive: "Its controls are broken."

In full form: Nintendo has some choices to make. It's considering sending the OP an apologetic singing telegram pleading for forgiveness for its terrible mistakes regarding the controls. It's a bad sign when a company like Nintendo releases its software in such a state. However it's going to be a cold day in hell before Nintendo sends its apologies. And folks like the OP should not get their hopes up because it's going to be a while before two %*its will be given by Nintendo and its employees."

As an English major, I think it's hilarious when people feel the need to correct another person's grammar on a message board. Get over it.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I think the stand does a fine job of addressing the concern but I think some people believe there shouldn't be a concern at all. There shouldn't be a stand, whether it works great or not as they feel an accessory such as that has no place with a portable gaming device.

Also...you play it in the car and in bed?

With the stand?

I understand that some people have that particular complaint with the stand and honestly all I can really say is I disagree. At that point it is purely a matter of opinion and if you find the stand a stupid or unacceptable solution to the comfort issue than I can't argue with you. The reason why I don't mind it is because I understand why the controls work the way they do. The stylus controls are an extremely important part of the design of KI and I don't think the game would be nearly as good without them.

And yes, it's actually not hard to use in the car and bed. In bed I just use a few pillows to sit up (so I'm not actually laying down) and put another one in my lap with the stand on top. In the car I'll just grab a jacket or whatever's around and put that in my lap with the stand on top. I can understand why this would be annoying or excessive to some but personally it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Any small quibble I might have over that extra setup disappears when I'm playing the game.

Odd, I only now use the stand to prop my 3DS up as a cradle since I can't use the proper cradle anymore thanks to the Nyko Powerpak that now resides at the backside of my unit.

I actually lay down on my back in my bed to play this game, holding the 3DS as I would any other game. Honestly, tweaking and getting use to how the game is played aside, I'd even go as far as to say that this is one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played from a gameplay perspective, rivaling perhaps even one of my favorites games, Bayonetta.

I'm generally not one to game lying down so that might explain the difference in our opinions. I totally agree with you about the enjoyment factor, though!

 

[UncleSporky]

Still though, all this bickering from the haves (righties) to the have nots (lefties, jk) aside, It really does suck that there are some people out there that cannot fully enjoy the game because of its controls. I really do wish everyone could, because as it stands, this is already the best handheld I've ever played, and I'm not even done with the single player portion yet.

I think the ado about lefties is a manufactured complaint, really - people just assuming it's a problem for us.

There have been countless lefties in the OT saying they adjusted after an hour or two to the default controls, PSP "dual stick" controls, or using CPP (like me). They probably have the same rate of easy adjustment as righties, honestly.

I'd like to see a poll or something but that would be more fuel on this topic.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I truly do not believe this thread would've been made if the stand had not been included.

The sheer number of posts in this thread going buh buh buh they even included a stand!

Complaints regarding this control scheme have been made since the DS inception. So you can bet we would be hearing about it even withouth the stand.

 

[UncleSporky]

Complaints regarding this control scheme have been made since the DS inception. So you can bet we would be hearing about it even withouth the stand.

Is that a fact?