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[Cygnus X-1]

Selling SCE to Nintendo?

Shutting down the TV section instead. The big problem of japanese companies is that they are no longer competitive toward south corean of chinese TV manufacturers.
It's painful, because Sony is THE tv maker, but it's a matter of time at this point.

 

[pramath]

VITA DEAD

in Japan?

Didn't it underperform in France, UK and USA too?
As future proofed the Vita is, the device itself is a relic of the past. A dedicated handheld will not survive in today's market. The 3DS manages because it's the only place to play the latest Pokemon, Mario and Mario Kart.

 

[chickdigger802]

Vita just arrived... right when it got dead... yay!

To be fair, I did get mine off Ebay. They are selling at really nice prices with a lot of good swag!

 

[pramath]

Vita just arrived... right when it got dead... yay!

To be fair, I did get mine off Ebay. They are selling at really nice prices with a lot of good swag!

How nice are we talking?

 

[Instro]

So the week everyone has been waiting on finally arrived, I wonder if Vita will fall below the Wii. Too bad about Kingdom Hearts as well, pretty nasty drop. Hopefully it does well overseas.

 

[saichi]

EDIT: Oh.

OH how I miss the bulky iMac

 

[Cookie18]

Shutting down the TV section instead. The big problem of japanese companies is that they are no longer competitive toward south corean of chinese TV manufacturers.
It's painful, because Sony is THE tv maker, but it's a matter of time at this point.

I ignored it the first time but as painful as it is watching Sony fail it is just as painful watching you spell KOREA as corea

 

[tuffy]

As future proofed the Vita is, the device itself is a relic of the past. A dedicated handheld will not survive in today's market. The 3DS manages because it's the only place to play the latest Pokemon, Mario and Mario Kart.

Exclusive software is a huge selling point for every gaming device in history. It's kindof a big deal. Vita's problem is a serious lack of titles that the market considers to be worth the cost of the device. Having more attractive titles, a lower price, or both, would help its numbers considerably.

 

[dacuk]

If I was Nintendo I'd be tempted to give Capcom a few hundred million dollars to keep Monster Hunter off Vita. That's the surest way to stop the system recovering.

...but that won't happen. I think Vita will be fine once MH arrives..if it does.

Fixed for the crude reality.

 

[pramath]

Exclusive software is a huge selling point for every gaming device in history. It's kindof a big deal. Vita's problem is a serious lack of titles that the market considers to be worth the cost of the device. Having more attractive titles, a lower price, or both, would help its numbers considerably.

This is true, but let's think about this: is there any title in the Sony catalog that would actually move systems? The only potential candidate is Gran Turismo, and that is a big if, given that it might take ages to develop, and/or probably wouldn't sell on a handheld.

Third party exclusives? What incentive does any third party have to develop a game for a system that hasn't even reached 2 million units sold worldwide yet, when they can ALSO release it for a system that has sold about ten times as much? And if it does release on said system too, then again, what incentive would anyone have to pick up a Vita over that system?

A new Uncharted, a new Wipeout, a new God of War, a new Ratchet and Clank... all of these are titles that sell, but only to the core Sony customer. Unfortunately, the core Playstation audience is also quite small, and a big portion of this audience is alienated because the handheld editions of these games do nothing to differentiate themselves from the console versions (and yes, this matters as much as one would like to argue otherwise; Nintendo's first party games for their handhelds are always developed by their main teams and always differentiate themselves from the console entries). Again, what reason does one have to pick up an overpriced (from a consumer's perspective) handheld with no compelling games, no good future support at least as of this point, and grossly overpriced accessories?

Think about it.

 

[kurosawa]

Shutting down the TV section instead. The big problem of japanese companies is that they are no longer competitive toward south corean of chinese TV manufacturers.
It's painful, because Sony is THE tv maker, but it's a matter of time at this point.

Same thing happened to Grundig and Philips when Sony appeared. It's evolution, no need to feel pity for any of them.

 

[Souldriver]

Remember Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

Eeeeuh....yes? I feel like I'm missing something here.

 

[BKK]

Also;

 

[Chris1964]

Outside of like the original Xbox, has there been a major game system released in Japan that was out for 5 months and didn't have a single major game for the Japanese market released or announced? Vita's support has been worse than I would have ever expected.

Playstation 2

 

[pramath]

Eeeeuh....yes? I feel like I'm missing something here.

This will make it clearer.

 

[Souldriver]

This will make it clearer.

The fuck?

Why does South Korea get such a terrible treatment? Kinda blows my mind.

 

[muu]

Shutting down the TV section instead. The big problem of japanese companies is that they are no longer competitive toward south corean of chinese TV manufacturers.
It's painful, because Sony is THE tv maker, but it's a matter of time at this point.

Sony's TV line might as well have died along with Trinitron. It's overdue to take it off life support at this point. We could say the same about the games division for the last several years, but considering the story goes that Kaz 'saved' Playstation and rose to his current status as a result, they're not going to just kill it or sell it off. Doubt they're gonna do much more than make ambiguous references to E3 and hope investors and fund managers don't ask too many questions, though.

Why does South Korea get such a terrible treatment? Kinda blows my mind.

I believe the market for non-online games there is very small.

 

[Cookie18]

If Sony is going to get out of one or more markets I think the PC business should be at the top of the list. The PC market (with the exception of Apple) as a whole is going down hill and if they jump off before it crashes completely maybe they can save enough money to not have to kill a different sector.

If the Playstation part of Sony is indeed one of the most profitable parts then perhaps they will be pushing the Vita and PS3/4 as opposed to cutting back on them. They'll no doubt want to make up for whatever they cut and the only way to do that is with continued support for the Playstation side of things.

The fuck?

Why does South Korea get such a terrible treatment? Kinda blows my mind.

I noticed this a couple of weeks ago too when I was looking for stuff I might want to buy when/if I go to Korea. For example, one wouldn't even know the new iPad exists from looking at the Korean Apple site. It surprises me since I'd always imagined the likes of South Korea to be ahead in the technology fields. It's only a short hop from Japan to Korea as well :/

 

[tuffy]

This is true, but let's think about this: is there any title in the Sony catalog that would actually move systems? The only potential candidate is Gran Turismo, and that is a big if, given that it might take ages to develop, and/or probably wouldn't sell on a handheld.

I completely agree that there's little in Sony's catalog to sell the Vita as it stands now. I only disagree that the market has changed so much that a dedicated handheld is obsolete. Given the right titles and the right price, I think it's possible to have success with one. But as you say, it doesn't look like the Vita is headed in that direction.

 

[Raonak]

NOO VITA!

 

[pramath]

The fuck?

Why does South Korea get such a terrible treatment? Kinda blows my mind.

Nintendo of Korea is a very new branch, and the Korean market itself just only recently opened up to allowing Japanese companies and imports.
I'm assuming it has to do with endless administrative inertia that NoK has to deal with.

IIRC, they still remain the only console manufacturer to be in Korea officially.

 

[pramath]

I completely agree that there's little in Sony's catalog to sell the Vita as it stands now. I only disagree that the market has changed so much that a dedicated handheld is obsolete. Given the right titles and the right price, I think it's possible to have success with one. But as you say, it doesn't look like the Vita is headed in that direction.

Maybe. It might actually be impossible to ever determine whether the market for a dedicated game handheld exists, because a handheld, like any other game system, will simply not sell without compelling games.
At the very least, I think we can say that the market for handhelds priced over $200 does not exist. Remember, people were more willing to buy the 3DS in spite of all its considerable faults and lack of games after that price cut.

EDIT:

Damn it, double post. Sorry about that.

 

[donny2112]

[3DS] Fire Emblem: Awakening # <RPG> (Nintendo) (¥4.800)
[3DS] Fire Emblem: Awakening [Special Pack] <RPG> (Nintendo) (¥19.800)

I am so looking forward to this game's U.S. release.

 

[frankie_baby]

Nintendo of Korea is a very new branch, and the Korean market itself just only recently opened up to allowing Japanese companies and imports.
I'm assuming it has to do with endless administrative inertia that NoK has to deal with.

IIRC, they still remain the only console manufacturer to be in Korea officially.

Have we ever had any figures for how the wii and ds did in korea? I seem to remember many years ago (possibly when the wii launched there) they'd sold a million ds systems

 

[matmanx1]

The problem with Sony leaving the portable space and a theoretical Nintendo only portable future is that we gamers would be loosing some great games. No First Party Sony franchise is going to appear on a Nintedo portable so we loose out on Hot Shots Golf, Gran Turismo, God of War, Patapon, Loco Roco, MLB the Show, Uncharted and all the rest.

Our friend who wants a one handheld future may not care about such titles but I sure as heck do. Of course this is a MC thread and it isn't about what I want it's about what Japan wants.

Make no mistake. I'm a huge 3DS fan to the point of importing a J-3DS with Fire Emblem and Code of Princess next week. I want Nintendo to do well. But not at the expense of loosing some great Sony franchises. That's not a net gain in my book.

 

[frankie_baby]

The problem with Sony leaving the portable space and a theoretical Nintendo only portable future is that we gamers would be loosing some great games. No First Party Sony franchise is going to appear on a Nintedo portable so we loose out on Hot Shots Golf, Gran Turismo, God of War, Patapon, Loco Roco, MLB the Show, Uncharted and all the rest.

Our friend who wants a one handheld future may not care about such titles but I sure as heck do. Of course this is a MC thread and it isn't about what I want it's about what Japan wants.

Make no mistake. I'm a huge 3DS fan to the point of importing a J-3DS with Fire Emblem and Code of Princess next week. I want Nintendo to do well. But not at the expense of loosing some great Sony franchises. That's not a net gain in my book.

Unless of course sony also leave the home console market soon too(quite likely imo)

 

[Cookie18]

Unless of course sony also leave the home console market soon too(quite likely imo)

Haha! Brilliant joke!

 

[muu]

Have we ever had any figures for how the wii and ds did in korea? I seem to remember many years ago (possibly when the wii launched there) they'd sold a million ds systems

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301367

probably the thread you're talking about. I'm guessing software isn't keeping up w/ the hardware sales though, what with the attitude towards Intellectual Property these days.

 

[frankie_baby]

Haha! Brilliant joke!

Ps3 - catastrophic launch, psvita -abortion before birth. Unless ps4 does drastically better of course they'll leave the market

 

[frankie_baby]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301367

probably the thread you're talking about. I'm guessing software isn't keeping up w/ the hardware sales though, what with the attitude towards Intellectual Property these days.

So we've had nothing more recent then

 

[BKK]

From January 2010;

Hardware:

NDS: 3 million
WII: 1 million

Software:

[WII] Wii Sports: 290,000
[WII] Wii Fit: 240,000
[NDS] New Super Mario Bros.: 460,000
[NDS] Brain Training 400,000
[NDS] Nintendogs: 310,000
[NDS] English Training 240k
[NDS] Magical Chinese Letters Training: 110,000

 

[Celine]

Off-topic:
Struck me as surprising that Virtual Boy just had 5 months span from the first game released in shops and the last one.
Nintendo was really quick to kill the system.

Outside of like the original Xbox, has there been a major game system released in Japan that was out for 5 months and didn't have a single major game for the Japanese market released or announced? Vita's support has been worse than I would have ever expected.

define "major".

 

[frankie_baby]

From January 2010;

Hardware:

NDS: 3 million
WII: 1 million

Software:

[WII] Wii Sports: 290,000
[WII] Wii Fit: 240,000
[NDS] New Super Mario Bros.: 460,000
[NDS] Brain Training 400,000
[NDS] Nintendogs: 310,000
[NDS] English Training 240k
[NDS] Magical Chinese Letters Training: 110,000

Hmmmm, not completely insignificant then

 

[Cookie18]

Ps3 - catastrophic launch, psvita -abortion before birth. Unless ps4 does drastically better of course they'll leave the market

Why do the launches matter when the PS3 has sold 60+ million to date and the PSP has sold 70+ million?

No console manufacturer is making a console for a quick profit in the first year. They're in it for the long haul so they can make money off the systems (eventually) and the games sold.

The Vita has had a slow start but this is a 5-10 year life we're talking about. They'll cut the price and games will be released.

If you think the launch matters at all relative to the life span of the systems then you are very wrong.

 

[Chris1964]

The Vita has had a slow start but this is a 5-10 year life we're talking about. They'll cut the price and games will be released.

If you think the launch matters at all relative to the life span of the systems then you are very wrong.

I can't take the same discussion in these threads for another week.

We'll enter Golden Week very soon. If KH has any legs it will show there, if Vita doesn't get a respectable bump things will be worse in May.

 

[Opiate]

The problem with Sony leaving the portable space and a theoretical Nintendo only portable future is that we gamers would be loosing some great games. No First Party Sony franchise is going to appear on a Nintedo portable so we loose out on Hot Shots Golf, Gran Turismo, God of War, Patapon, Loco Roco, MLB the Show, Uncharted and all the rest.

Our friend who wants a one handheld future may not care about such titles but I sure as heck do. Of course this is a MC thread and it isn't about what I want it's about what Japan wants.

Make no mistake. I'm a huge 3DS fan to the point of importing a J-3DS with Fire Emblem and Code of Princess next week. I want Nintendo to do well. But not at the expense of loosing some great Sony franchises. That's not a net gain in my book.

It definitely has its downsides.

More importantly, while there are a few reasons to "root" for a system to fail which are at least vaguely justifiable, I suspect most of those reasons are only held as a flimsy pretense. While this doesn't apply to everyone on all "sides" of the debate, there are quite a few who already prefer Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft and will adhere to any plausible justification to validate those pretedermined preferences.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The problem with Sony leaving the portable space and a theoretical Nintendo only portable future is that we gamers would be loosing some great games. No First Party Sony franchise is going to appear on a Nintedo portable so we loose out on Hot Shots Golf, Gran Turismo, God of War, Patapon, Loco Roco, MLB the Show, Uncharted and all the rest.

Our friend who wants a one handheld future may not care about such titles but I sure as heck do. Of course this is a MC thread and it isn't about what I want it's about what Japan wants.

Make no mistake. I'm a huge 3DS fan to the point of importing a J-3DS with Fire Emblem and Code of Princess next week. I want Nintendo to do well. But not at the expense of loosing some great Sony franchises. That's not a net gain in my book.

What would stop Sony from releasing games on iOS, mobile, Android, PC, or even 3DS? MS did/does nearly all of the above. Money is money. Of course, if Sony were a 3rd party developer they would have much less reason to subsidize underperforming franchises just for the sake of a platform (Motorstorm/Evolution would be axed overnight).

 

[AceBandage]

I can't take the same discussion in these threads for another week.

Why limit it to only one?
We'll be discussing it until:

1. The Vita finally is pulled from the shelves.

2. Sony gets its act together and revitalizes the system.

 

[frankie_baby]

Why do the launches matter when the PS3 has sold 60+ million to date and the PSP has sold 70+ million?

No console manufacturer is making a console for a quick profit in the first year. They're in it for the long haul so they can make money off the systems (eventually) and the games sold.

The Vita has had a slow start but this is a 5-10 year life we're talking about. They'll cut the price and games will be released.

If you think the launch matters at all relative to the life span of the systems then you are very wrong.

Firstly i never mentioned the psp but now you do so despite a decent hardware figure the software sales in the west have been appaling so i doubt its been that much of a money spinner for them, so what if the ps3 sold 60 million its still lost them untold billions that it'll never make back and if you really think vita will have a 5 year life (let alone 10, man what have you been smoking) then you're very much mistaken

 

[test_account]

Yea, I mixed up earlier, I was thinking GBAs peers (WSC, NGPC), but overlooked the overengineered handhelds of the early 90s. Doesn't really change my point though, Nintendo has more technology handheld firsts than basically all their competitors combined.

If we're counting add-ons you can add dual analog to the list too.

True about being first in that sense, but if we talk about being first as in "first with the idea", then i wouldnt count features that were released after someone else had announce it to come.

 

[Cookie18]

Firstly i never mentioned the psp but now you do so despite a decent hardware figure the software sales in the west have been appaling so i doubt its been that much of a money spinner for them, so what if the ps3 sold 60 million its still lost them untold billions that it'll never make back and if you really think vita will have a 5 year life (let alone 10, man what have you been smoking) then you're very much mistaken

You can't honestly believe that Sony haven't made any money on the PS3 and PSP? Do you think they are in the business for the good of the people or something?

 

[DCharlie]

if you really think vita will have a 5 year life (let alone 10, man what have you been smoking) then you're very much mistaken

I'd be interested in how long people think it'll last. 1 year? 2 years?

 

[AceBandage]

You can't honestly believe that Sony haven't made any money on the PS3 and PSP? Do you think they are in the business for the good of the people or something?

The way they bleed money, I wonder how they're in business at all.

I'd be interested in how long people think it'll last. 1 year? 2 years?

Depends on how much Sony cares about its success. I mean, they could, in theory, just keep pumping out 10K units a week for Japan forever, but I don't see them doing that.

 

[bigtroyjon]

PSP(2011 YTD)= 678,494
PSP+PSV(2012)=504,213

Looking ahead to Week 15, PSP did 24,053 in 2011.

3DS+DS(2011 YTD)=1,216,721
3DS+DS(2012 YTD)=1,342,589

Looking ahead to week 15, 3DS+DS did 43,208 in 2011.

All handhelds(2011 YTD)=1,895,215
All handhelds(2012 YTD)=1,846,802

 

[chickdigger802]

How nice are we talking?

Well I got a wifi one with case stand and 32 gb card for $250

 

[Opiate]

You can't honestly believe that Sony haven't made any money on the PS3 and PSP? Do you think they are in the business for the good of the people or something?

Sony has lost ~5 billion dollars on the PS3. It is the worst financial disaster in gaming history, losing more money for its parent company than either the Dreamcast or original Xbox.

The PSP has almost certainly made money for Sony, however. And Vita is both a portable and a system with dramatically lower initial loss leading margins.

 

[test_account]

Firstly i never mentioned the psp but now you do so despite a decent hardware figure the software sales in the west have been appaling so i doubt its been that much of a money spinner for them, so what if the ps3 sold 60 million its still lost them untold billions that it'll never make back and if you really think vita will have a 5 year life (let alone 10, man what have you been smoking) then you're very much mistaken

Similar things were said about PS3 and PSP as well early on, so i see no reason to rule out the Vita for a 5 year period at this point.

 

[frankie_baby]

You can't honestly believe that Sony haven't made any money on the PS3 and PSP? Do you think they are in the business for the good of the people or something?

Yes they've made money on the psp, how much i dont know but undoubtably nowhere near what they'd have liked to, but man if you think they've made money on the ps3 now thats just crazy talk

 

[Clear]

I can't take the same discussion in these threads for another week.

Its understandable given these threads are weekly. I mean objectively speaking nothing is likely to change dramatically over the space of a week unless there's some kind of major happening like a price-change or a huge title launches.

Vita isn't suddenly going to start selling more without some kind of stimulus. If Sony were doing stuff to increase sales to no avail, that would be worthy of note - but they aren't doing much at all so its not really an interesting topic.

 

[jman2050]

Similar things were said about PS3 and PSP as well early on, so i see no reason to rule out the Vita for a 5 year period at this point.

The Vita is doing far worse than either of those though.

NPD is only going to make things look even worse for the platform.