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Wii U Speculation thread IV: Photoshop rumors and image memes

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blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The latest post at B3D is really informative. I worried and glad at the same time that Nintendo went such a customized design. Worried because we all know that many devs won't be bothered trying to exploit it and glad because it would be boring if all the consoles had out-of-the-shelves GPUs and making tech discussions mostly obsolete.
Chances are that whatever enhancements nintendo have in there are in the form of GPU ISA modifications. And since nobody writes GPU assembly, particularly not native assembly, all the enhancements will be available through the shader compiler. IOW, some high-level shader code will just 'automagically' get performance gains on the U-GPU.
 
He looks... intrigued :p

Edit: Reading what Rösti posted about Havok... does that technology is hardware or software based?
Maybe stupid question... we know it is free for developers that are working on Wii U games but what stop them from not using it on other projects?

Software based, and it's built into the SDK and compiler, I.e. if you try to compile the code to make an executable using another compiler it will fail.
 

Roo

Member
Aside from the art styles, I also hope that the architecture left a big impression on him. As an architecture/urban design fiend, I love games that have memorable structures. Take Hyrule Castle from the Wind Waker - such a fantastic setting in which to have a dramatic fight sequence! The arcades, the columns, the railings, the insets.. you could tell that the level designers put some real love into that effort.


That is a terrific metaphor for it, haha.. now I want ice cream.

Though I agree with you.. I can't see a Nintendo game using such rich architecture but Zelda... and maybe TLS and PT too. I know he will come up with something amazing so let's hope the next installments are graphical showcases.

Software based, and it's built into the SDK and compiler, I.e. if you try to compile the code to make an executable using another compiler it will fail.

Ahh I see, thank you :p
 

HylianTom

Banned
Though I agree with you.. I can't see a Nintendo game using such rich architecture but Zelda... and maybe TLS and PT too. I know he will come up with something amazing so let's hope the next installments are graphical showcases.

Not really Miyamoto, but I'd love to see a console Icarus adventure game that uses such architectural flourish. I mean.. an Icarus game to rival Zelda adventures like Ocarina of Time, with a city and towns, different landscapes, dungeons/palaces/tombs, etc.
 

wsippel

Banned
Rösti;36971432 said:
It doesn't say Havok Cloth won't be available, but that it may not be applicable for all titles. While not that of a big deal, what could be the reason for this, are titles heavily reliant on the CPU (for rendering on the controller screen) such where Cloth won't make an appearance?
His point is that almost all games need physics and animations, which is why Nintendo selected those two packages. Havok Cloth and other Havok solutions are more specialized and many games simply wouldn't need them, so it didn't make sense to license those packages for every developer.
 
His point is that almost all games need physics and animations, which is why Nintendo selected those two packages. Havok Cloth and other Havok solutions are more specialized and many games simply wouldn't need them, so it didn't make sense to license those packages for every developer.

Typical penny pinching Nintendo. If you make it available, all Dev's would have used it. Now dev's that want to have cloth physics have no reason to develop on WiiU.

So, people are already spinning his statement as Wii U being underpowered?
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Rösti;36971432 said:
It doesn't say Havok Cloth won't be available, but that it may not be applicable for all titles. While not that of a big deal, what could be the reason for this, are titles heavily reliant on the CPU (for rendering on the controller screen) such where Cloth won't make an appearance?
If you're doing a bald marine COD type game. Why would you need cloth. Sure, you might have a few banners and flags but you could just animate those.
 

Nibel

Member
Rösti;36971432 said:
The most recent issue of Developer features an interview with Havok's David Coghlan about what Havok means for Wii U. It's from the 5th of April, but I haven't seen this posted before.



Source: http://www.develop-online.net/digital-edition/download/94

It doesn't say Havok Cloth won't be available, but that it may not be applicable for all titles. While not that of a big deal, what could be the reason for this, are titles heavily reliant on the CPU (for rendering on the controller screen) such where Cloth won't make an appearance?

Havok works great - there will be smaller developers making use of it. Nice catch as always!
 

BD1

Banned
Not really Miyamoto, but I'd love to see a console Icarus adventure game that uses such architectural flourish. I mean.. an Icarus game to rival Zelda adventures like Ocarina of Time, with a city and towns, different landscapes, dungeons/palaces/tombs, etc.

Oh man, how awesome would an HD Icarus by Sora be? Expanded ground sections where this equal parts combat and "adventure/exploration"

5-Minutes of frantic, mind numbing on rails shooting
Followed by a ground section with exploration and combat
Followed by epic boss battles

In Glorious HD
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oh man, how awesome would an HD Icarus by Sora be? Expanded ground sections where this equal parts combat and "adventure/exploration"

5-Minutes of frantic, mind numbing on rails shooting
Followed by a ground section with exploration and combat
Followed by epic boss battles

In Glorious HD

I want this to happen.
 
not that there's any chance of it happening whatsoever, but how would you guys react if come E3 it's revealed that Wii U is roughly 6-8x the capabilities of this gen and more or less a standard generational leap for $350?


1891079-ryanhands.gif
 
Typical penny pinching Nintendo. If you make it available, all Dev's would have used it. Now dev's that want to have cloth physics have no reason to develop on WiiU.

Not sure if sarcas--

Cloth dungeon.

…lol


http://www.revogamers.net/noticias/...spikes-es-nuevo-nicalis-wii-u-y-3ds-8407.html

Basically, this tells that Nicalis is preparing a remake of 1,001 Spikes for the 3DS eShop and the Wii U what-ever-the-online-shop-will-be-called.

It mentions it wants to be there at the Wii U's launch.

Threepeat of a minor news link? We're officially out of the meme hellstorm and in Thread the Third territory again, wooooo! :)
 
So I wanted to say my own view of a few things. I am still a few pages behind but whatever....


-I hope Nintendo has acheivements for Wii U day 1 and on 3DS by the end of the year. I would rather them be like Trophies with the whole RPG element but as long as people can view mine acheivements and I can view others then I'm cool. If they don't have them I will be severely dissapointed since I like them alot, but I'll still get Wii U day one lolz.

-Since they had it in Wii (for almost all titles) and 3DS they must have a fully featured Activity Log! I love the Wii's and especially 3DS's Activity Log. I NEED MAH PLAYTIME TRACKING. Severely dissapointed this wasn't in Vita or in any other systems.

-I really don't care about graphics. As long as its on par with PS3 then I'm fine, and it apears to be quite abit more powerful, dat Zelda tech demo :)

-Actual Account names for both Wii U and 3DS and ability to have content on more than 1 system & be able to deactivate a system from a website incase yours break.. i know they already confirmed accounts for Wii U but they still could use friend codes and I can't remember if they are confirmed for 3DS (But I think it is.) If it does go on 3DS then will it override friend codes? Friend Codes are already on 3DS, it could get confusing...

Alot of people were complaining when when NES games they bought for the Wii couldn't work on 3DS aswell. But I can't help to think it was because of the Wii's limited online ways, and they have already set this up on the 3DS meaning that any NES game you buy on 3DS can infact be played on Wii U.

-Digital version of all retail games. I don't really care, because I like physical games but it could be useful for something like Animal Crossing. That way I don't have to put the disc in each time...

-And please Nintendo, let me costumize the music on the Wii U menu. PLEASE! It was cool at first but the Wii Menu music got old fast.

-And for the love of the Triforce, have folders! FOLDERS!!!

I wanted to respond to the posts about acheivemnts a few pages back, then got into my wishlist for the system..so there.

*Goes back to playing Pokemon. *
 

AzaK

Member
Chances are that whatever enhancements nintendo have in there are in the form of GPU ISA modifications. And since nobody writes GPU assembly, particularly not native assembly, all the enhancements will be available through the shader compiler. IOW, some high-level shader code will just 'automagically' get performance gains on the U-GPU.

Is it also possible they would be adding Wii U only stuff on top of making standard shader code faster. NOTE: I have no idea if all shader code is currently standard.

Edit: just remembered, aren't these supposed enhancements fixed function? Is that still "shader" tech?
 

BlackJace

Member
So I wanted to say my own view of a few things. I am still a few pages behind but whatever....


-I hope Nintendo has acheivements for Wii U day 1 and on 3DS by the end of the year. I would rather them be like Trophies with the whole RPG element but as long as people can view mine acheivements and I can view others then I'm cool. If they don't have them I will be severely dissapointed since I like them alot, but I'll still get Wii U day one lolz.

-Since they had it in Wii (for almost all titles) and 3DS they must have a fully featured Activity Log! I love the Wii's and especially 3DS's Activity Log. I NEED MAH PLAYTIME TRACKING. Severely dissapointed this wasn't in Vita or in any other systems.

-I really don't care about graphics. As long as its on par with PS3 then I'm fine, and it apears to be quite abit more powerful, dat Zelda tech demo :)

-Actual Account names for both Wii U and 3DS and ability to have content on more than 1 system & be able to deactivate a system from a website incase yours break.. i know they already confirmed accounts for Wii U but they still could use friend codes and I can't remember if they are confirmed for 3DS (But I think it is.) If it does go on 3DS then will it override friend codes? Friend Codes are already on 3DS, it could get confusing...

Alot of people were complaining when when NES games they bought for the Wii couldn't work on 3DS aswell. But I can't help to think it was because of the Wii's limited online ways, and they have already set this up on the 3DS meaning that any NES game you buy on 3DS can infact be played on Wii U.

-Digital version of all retail games. I don't really care, because I like physical games but it could be useful for something like Animal Crossing. That way I don't have to put the disc in each time...

-And please Nintendo, let me costumize the music on the Wii U menu. PLEASE! It was cool at first but the Wii Menu music got old fast.

-And for the love of the Triforce, have folders! FOLDERS!!!

I wanted to respond to the posts about acheivemnts a few pages back, then got into my wishlist for the system..so there.

*Goes back to playing Pokemon. *




This. The elevator-style menu music does get repetitive after a while. Plus, I think it'll be a first for a console to have a custom menu theme. It would be a neat feature IMO.
 
I'm curious: Are you not interested in the shift towards downloadable (or streaming, which seems not quite as great) movies? They take up a lot less space than Blu-Rays.
I live in canada, our selection sucks balls compared to america so streaming is hardly an option. Then you throw in things like data caps, and the fact that I enjoy owning physical things for some reasons, and I don't know, maybe I'll prefer completely streaming in a year or 2.
 

guek

Banned
The responses to my hypothetical are interesting. Personally I think it'd be a pretty big mistake and potentially disastrous for both the industry and nintendo's profit margins. Of course I'd be excited for upcoming games, but I'd be very very concerned about future sustainability.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
The responses to my hypothetical are interesting. Personally I think it'd be a pretty big mistake and potentially disastrous for both the industry and nintendo's profit margins. Of course I'd be excited for upcoming games, but I'd be very very concerned about future sustainability.

Yeah, if its anymore than 50% more powerful, Nintendo loses everything.
 
The responses to my hypothetical are interesting. Personally I think it'd be a pretty big mistake and potentially disastrous for both the industry and nintendo's profit margins. Of course I'd be excited for upcoming games, but I'd be very very concerned about future sustainability.
to answer your question, I'd want it. LETS DOOOO ITTTT.
 

Akai

Member
The responses to my hypothetical are interesting. Personally I think it'd be a pretty big mistake and potentially disastrous for both the industry and nintendo's profit margins. Of course I'd be excited for upcoming games, but I'd be very very concerned about future sustainability.

The industry could barely handle this generation's budgets, so it will definitely be interesting to see how many players die trying to display significant visual boosts as compared to this generation's games. I believe, if developers are smart, they'll just focus on fine-tuning the visual fidelity we are already seeing this generation so as to not blow their budgets out of proportion. I foresee many disappointed gamers in the future, on all fronts...
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
not that there's any chance of it happening whatsoever, but how would you guys react if come E3 it's revealed that Wii U is roughly 6-8x the capabilities of this gen and more or less a standard generational leap for $350?

If it were really that much of a leap, $400 would be an acceptable price.

So I wanted to say my own view of a few things. I am still a few pages behind but whatever....


-I hope Nintendo has acheivements for Wii U day 1 and on 3DS by the end of the year. I would rather them be like Trophies with the whole RPG element but as long as people can view mine acheivements and I can view others then I'm cool. If they don't have them I will be severely dissapointed since I like them alot, but I'll still get Wii U day one lolz.

I would be really interested in seeing how Nintendo would approach achievements though. More than anything, I'd like to actually be able to do something with achievements. Maybe unlock promotional materials or something cool like that. As-is now, I really don't care about achievements at all.

-Since they had it in Wii (for almost all titles) and 3DS they must have a fully featured Activity Log! I love the Wii's and especially 3DS's Activity Log. I NEED MAH PLAYTIME TRACKING. Severely dissapointed this wasn't in Vita or in any other systems.

I love how Steam handles this and hope all three console manufacturers do it next gen. When checking out a game, now I'll regularly look it up on Steam, look at which of my friends has played that game, look up who has the most hours on the game, and ask them if the game is any good. I need to be able to do that on consoles.

-I really don't care about graphics. As long as its on par with PS3 then I'm fine, and it apears to be quite abit more powerful, dat Zelda tech demo :)

-Actual Account names for both Wii U and 3DS and ability to have content on more than 1 system & be able to deactivate a system from a website incase yours break.. i know they already confirmed accounts for Wii U but they still could use friend codes and I can't remember if they are confirmed for 3DS (But I think it is.) If it does go on 3DS then will it override friend codes? Friend Codes are already on 3DS, it could get confusing...

Alot of people were complaining when when NES games they bought for the Wii couldn't work on 3DS aswell. But I can't help to think it was because of the Wii's limited online ways, and they have already set this up on the 3DS meaning that any NES game you buy on 3DS can infact be played on Wii U.

If they're unifying accounts between the Wii-U and 3DS they damn well better unify Virtual Console libraries.

-Digital version of all retail games. I don't really care, because I like physical games but it could be useful for something like Animal Crossing. That way I don't have to put the disc in each time...

Nintendo's thinking about this, but they don't want to piss off retailers.

-And please Nintendo, let me costumize the music on the Wii U menu. PLEASE! It was cool at first but the Wii Menu music got old fast.

-And for the love of the Triforce, have folders! FOLDERS!!!

I wanted to respond to the posts about acheivemnts a few pages back, then got into my wishlist for the system..so there.

*Goes back to playing Pokemon. *

Responses in bold.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Is it also possible they would be adding Wii U only stuff on top of making standard shader code faster. NOTE: I have no idea if all shader code is currently standard.
It does not make much economical sense to speedup all code for a given (e.g. Wekiva) architecture - picking a successor architecture would be the natural choice then. For a given architecture, though, they could try to improve deemed-critical (by the client) aspects of it, which would then be exposed via the compiler (as that's really the only stage in the pipeline that could expose said enhancements).

Edit: just remembered, aren't these supposed enhancements fixed function? Is that still "shader" tech?
That's essentially semantics, as most individual instructions (i.e. all except those heavily reliant on fat microcode implementations) can be deemed 'fixed function'.
 

Kandinsky

Member
Oh man, how awesome would an HD Icarus by Sora be? Expanded ground sections where this equal parts combat and "adventure/exploration"

5-Minutes of frantic, mind numbing on rails shooting
Followed by a ground section with exploration and combat
Followed by epic boss battles

In Glorious HD

*dies*
 

nordique

Member
Rösti;36971432 said:
It doesn't say Havok Cloth won't be available, but that it may not be applicable for all titles. While not that of a big deal, what could be the reason for this, are titles heavily reliant on the CPU (for rendering on the controller screen) such where Cloth won't make an appearance?

No, I think its more of a "its not something that is important for majority of games"

He does state it could be used if a title were to need it, but that most titles won't need it. He says it himself:

"Wii U games developers can still come to us for other products, but something like Havok Cloth may not be applicable to for every game for the platform, while things like physics and animation are clearly relevant to every title."
 
The responses to my hypothetical are interesting. Personally I think it'd be a pretty big mistake and potentially disastrous for both the industry and nintendo's profit margins. Of course I'd be excited for upcoming games, but I'd be very very concerned about future sustainability.

What I say is that if they can do it with a reasonable chance of profitability they should do it. Thing is, how reasonable is it?

Could you imagine if they came out at E3 straight away with a Retro x Crytek Metroid Prime 4 that completely blew the doors off anything PS3/X360 can offer? The fanboy tears would be Tenorman delicious.
 
For the die-hard, sure, but for the mass market? Unless nintendo catches lightening in a bottle again, forget it.

Unless nintendo catches lightening in a bottle again, majority of the early adopters who are going to buy the Wii U are not going to be the mass market anyway regardless of the price.
 

nordique

Member
Chances are that whatever enhancements nintendo have in there are in the form of GPU ISA modifications. And since nobody writes GPU assembly, particularly not native assembly, all the enhancements will be available through the shader compiler. IOW, some high-level shader code will just 'automagically' get performance gains on the U-GPU.

Interesting.

I would love to hear your opinion on what you take of both Li Mu Bai's posts regarding his information on the Wii U, especially this recent one
 

BurntPork

Banned
Chances are that whatever enhancements nintendo have in there are in the form of GPU ISA modifications. And since nobody writes GPU assembly, particularly not native assembly, all the enhancements will be available through the shader compiler. IOW, some high-level shader code will just 'automagically' get performance gains on the U-GPU.

But what does that mean of the devs saying that it has less shaders? Some made-up excuse?
 
But what does that mean of the devs saying that it has less shaders? Some made-up excuse?

It means they have middleware that isn't made to use the Wii U's GPU fully yet.
All these devs saying "Blah blah blah the Wii U is weak and blah blah" are likely using middleware that was created for 6 year old systems.

The reason that we have companies like GearBox and Epic and Crytek touting the system as clearly more capable, is that Nintendo is specifically targeting those popular engines and tweaking the hardware to fit them perfectly.
They are making sure that UE4 and Cry 3 and other popular middleware engines will run without a hitch.

If a developer is not using one of those engines, then we'll see some breakdown, as they will have to fix them their selves.
 

guek

Banned
Unless nintendo catches lightening in a bottle again, majority of the early adopters who are going to buy the Wii U are not going to be the mass market anyway regardless of the price.

How do you figure? There's definitely a middle ground there where Wii U sales are solid but doesn't take off into the stratosphere like its predecessor. The mass market isn't an all or nothing demographic. If the price is right and there's some good casual bait software or features, it could do well with both the hardcore and the mainstream.

Besides, that kind of mentality leads to terrible sales. Appealing solely to the hardcore is the mistake MS and Sony made at the beginning of this gen, and it was a long time before they could try to rectify those mistakes.

But what does that mean of the devs saying that it has less shaders? Some made-up excuse?

Don't forget that that's an anonymous source. I'm not saying throw it out completely, but we shouldn't treat those statements as verified facts either.
 

nordique

Member
How do you figure? There's definitely a middle ground there where Wii U sales are solid but doesn't take off into the stratosphere like its predecessor. The mass market isn't an all or nothing demographic. If the price is right and there's some good casual bait software or features, it could do well with both the hardcore and the mainstream.

Besides, that kind of mentality leads to terrible sales. Appealing solely to the hardcore is the mistake MS and Sony made at the beginning of this gen, and it was a long time before they could try to rectify those mistakes.

Terrible sales? This is pretty standard in electronics. Sony sold the ps2 at a loss at a premium price. Even Apple did this with the Iphone when they released it.(sold it at a premium price). You milk the early adopters early on and eventually broaden out down the line. Rarely you go after the mass market right away. I even remember people being surprised the wii's launch price since there were rumors of it being $199. I wouldn't be shocked if that was the original price, but Nintendo sold it at $249 because they knew they could get away with it early on.
 

Oddduck

Member
There's one thing people are forgetting.

After the 3DS price cut and ambassador program, I think you'll see a large number of people waiting it out to see how the Wii U does before buying it.

Iwata himself said he is worried of this happening with the Wii U.
 
There's one thing people are forgetting.

After the 3DS price cut and ambassador program, I think you'll see a large number of people waiting it out to see how the Wii U does before buying it.

Iwata himself said he is worried of this happening with the Wii U.


Which is why they'll sell it much closer to the break even point and try and sweeten the pot with some built in software (note: Not a bundled game).
 

BlackJace

Member
There's one thing people are forgetting.

After the 3DS price cut and ambassador program, I think you'll see a large number of people waiting it out to see how the Wii U does before buying it.

Iwata himself said he is worried of this happening with the Wii U.

If the Wii U is priced appropriately, there's no reason people would be hesitant to get it.
The only reason this happened with the 3DS is because it had NO REASON being $250. Nintendo knew this, we knew this.
 

Linkhero1

Member
There's one thing people are forgetting.

After the 3DS price cut and ambassador program, I think you'll see a large number of people waiting it out to see how the Wii U does before buying it.

Iwata himself said he is worried of this happening with the Wii U.

If they have a strong launch lineup then they won't have to worry about this happening with the Wii U.
 

Roo

Member
There's one thing people are forgetting.

After the 3DS price cut and ambassador program, I think you'll see a large number of people waiting it out to see how the Wii U does before buying it.

Iwata himself said he is worried of this happening with the Wii U.


If they get great third and first party games at launch I think they will be fine
damn! beaten TWICE!!! >___<
 
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