Soul Keeper hasnt been hinted at. Dirge has been WIP for a while now. He got updated files just last week.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
- Thread starter Swag
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Soul Keeper hasnt been hinted at. Dirge has been WIP for a while now. He got updated files just last week.
Ooooh. That is cool at least. I love being annoying with Dirge and his tombstone shit.
That and Grand Magus would be the bees knees.
The_Player
Member
Didn't play the first Dota. What kind of hero he is?
This just plain confuses me...they have been doing every other week for a long time I thought (which you then say, later in the post), and more recently they have been doing one every 3 weeks if I recall correctly.
Judging from some reactions on a different forum I was reading, people who find the LoL characters more recognizable, likable, etc. are understandable. I seem to recall someone in particular in DotA 2 (Zeus?) who would repeat the same couple of lines a LOT, and it'd be nice if they talked a bit less.
Also, personally I'd DotA 2 not go excessively in the direction of flashy graphics or facial animation, since I always want to be zoomed out, probably as far as possible, so I can tell what's going on and have a wide field of vision. I would hardly ever want to see little model details, let alone facial expressions.
And regarding the LoL store, buying seems more intuitive to me, and the categories were more obvious. I hate the GUI design. If I played a ton of DOTA 2, maybe categories there would make sense. I also don't like having to buy items in different places on the map.
Schweinehund
Member
I don't understand league's store defense.
It literally has the worst store of the three. HON being the best.
No search bar, clicking to get to items, no customizable favorite item bar...
Runes/masteries are a hassle for me. I don't think they add any value besides a knowledge barrier that gives you an advantage over players who don't know the math behind the best mastery/rune setups. I feel like every game I have to do redo my masteries for each champion. It's really annoying and tedious.
I've played more LoL than I have dota 2 so far but I don't think I can go back to LoL. Just my preference.
It literally has the worst store of the three. HON being the best.
No search bar, clicking to get to items, no customizable favorite item bar...
Runes/masteries are a hassle for me. I don't think they add any value besides a knowledge barrier that gives you an advantage over players who don't know the math behind the best mastery/rune setups. I feel like every game I have to do redo my masteries for each champion. It's really annoying and tedious.
I've played more LoL than I have dota 2 so far but I don't think I can go back to LoL. Just my preference.
The one thing Leagues store has going for it is that is a lot more friendly for new people the way things are categorized. Armor, Magic resist, health, attack speed etc. These are much easier terms to read and grasp in a short amount of time than what the other games have going for them.
Thats less the store's doing and more owing to the fact that itemization in LoL is braindead simple.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Uhhhh, you're back again with this shit? They sound different. Get over whatever strange vendetta you have against Nolan North.
haha good one
hon has the worst store
Although to be fair, the only reason LoL's isn't worse is because, as HK pointed out, there's nothing to LoL's itemization.
The_Player
Member
The only problem i have with North is that the heroes he voiced sounds the same (except for SD, he sounds like OD). Period.
Freakinchair
Member
Except they don't unless you have some sort of hearing defect.
This is Mundo's entire Voice Acting (Inclusing his skins): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDlFjcWuIQA
This is Storm Spirit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUH9Ewwp42Y
http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Storm_Spirit_responses
Can you really say Mundo is more Memorable then Storm Spirit:
They need a penguin hero so North has an excuse to use the Penguin voice.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
At least these arguments involve the game
Eeeeh? Mundo says his name and slurps. How is that memorable in the least?
Eeeeh? Mundo says his name and slurps. How is that memorable in the least?
Yeah, Storm Spirit is a Celestial and Jolly Guy fused together. Brewmaster is a Half Breed between a Celestial and... something.
They are also both from the Wailing Mountains.
It's not. It's incredibly campy and goofy. Fits with the rest of LoL.
He also runs an international corporation as he pleases. Pay attention pls.
Sentenza
Member
"Who's that handsome devil?"
PUDDIN' POP
Togglesworlh
Banned
I saw some weird buffoonery about Eul's not being a good item a couple pages back...
I dunno, I kinda like it.
It's kind of painful watching videos of me playing and seeing all the things I could've done different to make the fight turn out better maybe. ):
I dunno, I kinda like it.
It's kind of painful watching videos of me playing and seeing all the things I could've done different to make the fight turn out better maybe. ):
The_Player
Member
I'd be less surprised if you guys were living in a parallel reality, since you're trying to tell me that their voices are completely different. I realized North voiced Brewmaster by hearing Mangix' voice alone, so it's not self-hypnosis for sure.
That Sven just started hitting for insane amounts. 1700 in a single hit, ouch. Poor Zeus.
Nice video but LOL, if you used sheep instead of Euls, that Sven would have died instead of your whole team.
Schweinehund
Member
I hear a lot of similarities between lycan and lone druid but not shadow demon.
Some of the more pronounced words sound similar to lone druid.
What really annoys me is the echo effect, sounds like he's speaking into a microphone.
Some of the more pronounced words sound similar to lone druid.
What really annoys me is the echo effect, sounds like he's speaking into a microphone.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Well you should communicate these things Kirby!
Yeah that's what I was referring to. ):
Yeah that's what I was referring to. ):
He's like a pokemon
also, for anyone asking and before people fuck him up:
clap -> stats -> clap -> stats -> clap -> ulti -> clap ->passive/haze (with ultimate whenever available ofc)
stats early for panda is useful due to his limited mana pool, his need for more hp and the fact that he can lane just fine with just a thunderclap. the passive vs haze depends on what kind of lineup you're against and what your role is. Passive is good if you're going for a semi-carry ganking, haze if you need to stop an enemy carry early
item build is typically stout br br br salve tango -> pb->wand->drums->blink->scepter.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Just played my first pub match with Spectre (played a few vs bots) and I have a question: how do you contribute to the team in the early/early-mid game? Say...under 16 minutes?
She seems too fragile a mere character to get right into the middle of the action. I was able to catch a couple of fleeing enemies across the screen with the ult, but early I just didn't feel comfortable getting in there. It didn't help that the team composition and play was horrible (pudge, dazzle, batrider, mirana...no working stuns, weak disables, bat was lost and pudge missed all of his hooks the entire game)...but idk. I finished like 2/3/5 and the team got rolled.
She seems too fragile a mere character to get right into the middle of the action. I was able to catch a couple of fleeing enemies across the screen with the ult, but early I just didn't feel comfortable getting in there. It didn't help that the team composition and play was horrible (pudge, dazzle, batrider, mirana...no working stuns, weak disables, bat was lost and pudge missed all of his hooks the entire game)...but idk. I finished like 2/3/5 and the team got rolled.
PillowKnight
Member
Step 1, farm a ring of health. After that you can dip in and harass with auto attacks from time to time.
Let everyone else do the initiating, use your dagger to keep people from escaping/setup(you'll normally do this before the stuns come in). Be sure to click on the hero when you dagger, since it follows them around.
Once you get boots +vanguard you can get way more aggressive, this includes tower diving squishy supports. Be aware of your dagger's cool down as it's your means of escape. Rule of thumb, don't let yourself fall below 60%hp while dagger's on cd. After vanguard it should be fairly easy to farm phase boots and then you can basically go to town.
Oh and keep in mind that your ult can be used to escape ganks. Pop it before you get stunned or are about to be set on by multiple heros-->tp to lone hero across the map.
Spectre can definitely contribute before the 16 min mark. It's really before you get vanguard that you're most vulnerable.
Also, don't ever make the mistake of going radiance first. It's the #1 mistake inexperienced spectres make.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Noted. Thanks!
I briefly read during the LoL vs Dota 2 debate that sparked up last page, I wanted to throw in my two cents on that. I kind of wish we had a seperate "Dota 2 vs LoL vs HoN vs whatever other game like this you want to name |OT|"
Back when HoN was in beta, my friend had an extra HoN beta key and invited me to the game. We both played, and neither us had never played a game like it before, we had no idea what the hell we were doing, both fed hard, and then ragequit.
Months later I heard about this "League of Legends" thing that was so popular, so I gave that a try. The tutorial explained what the hell was going on exactly, which was nice, and after a game it seemed like something I could pick up, although I didn't play it that much. Many of my friends in real life frequently played LoL. Then Dota 2 was announced. I'll admit I was a little biased because it was a Valve game, but I was curious about it and researched more on the internet. My initial thought was that League of Legends would prepare me for it. I could not have been more wrong. I found out that HoN was closer to Dota 2, and this was shortly after HoN's free to play update hit, so I decided to give HoN a try. It was noticeably harder, but I was determined to keep trying and learn how to play. I got called a feeder left and right in HoN, because that's what I inadvertently ended up being because I had no idea what I was doing in most situations. Sure, I understood basic things like last hitting and denying, but I had no clue with the items, other than following recommended builds, and plenty of other things. I kept playing HoN occasionally, but generally did pretty terribly at it.
Then I finally got into the Dota 2 beta. This game still had a learning curve similar to HoN's, but it felt like a much better game, and of course I still kept trying to learn the game. I got better and better as time went on. Now I can look back on the other games and compare what was right and wrong with them.
League of Legends just jumped into the trend that I really am annoyed by in gaming today: Appeal to the mass market by dumbing the game down. I remember that most situations in that game, they just called for blowing your spells on the enemies in the right order. Sure there were some spells that had their special uses, but it didn't seem like it was refined. Most teamfights were "Use your ultimate! Now use those other spells!" The worst part is that strategy actually seemed to work. I'm sure it probably didn't work in every situation in that game, but it seemed like it did a lot of the time. On top of that, the heroes or "Champions", if you will, seemed to fit into the "Everyone does everything" category. One example that stuck out in my mind was Ashe the Frost Archer. That was one Champion I remember playing a few times in LoL, and now I realize she is kind of like Mirana (Ult is similar to her Sacred Arrow) + Drow Ranger (Ice arrows) + Clockwerk (I'm thinking in terms of that hawk thing she had, compare it to Flare) + Ancient Apparition (Ult is global, slows units in area it hits). All four of those heroes have very different roles in Dota (Although I guess AA and Mirana are the most similar in role out of those, but there's still big differences there). The game's system for rotating which Champions are free are what sort of cause this problem, as not everyone will be able to pick strategically since they only can pick from 10 Champions, unless they bought some. Therefore, they end up having to design it where nearly everyone can do everything.
The other thing I remembered after playing more Dota 2/HoN is how ho-hum the early game is in LoL. Towers do a ridiculous amount of damage in that game. If I remember correctly, usually one shot from one can take roughly a quarter of some Champions' health! It practically completely discourages harassing or really early ganks, making things less interesting. The lack of denying also doesn't help with that problem either.
Another thing that bothered me about it was the way some of the models looked. You see these 2D artwork for the models, then you get in game and there's this cel-shaded style, and some of the Champions don't look like their artwork at first glance, making it confusing. Master Yi was an offender of this. Sure, upon closer inspection, he does actually look like the artwork, but at first glance it certainly wasn't what I was expecting.
If LoL is to be praised for something though, it's it's tutorial. It may not have individual tutorials for Champions, but it makes sure to tell you about everything on the map, unlike HoN's tutorial. HoN's tutorial just kind of says "Okay, this is the object of the game, the jungle creeps exist over there, now push mid and win the game!" Having a good tutorial for a game with a steep learning curve like this is absolutely important. I really think that HoN may have been able to edge out LoL in playerbase if it had a tutorial that actually taught more. Given what has been seen in the files so far, it looks like Dota 2 will have good tutorials, including individual hero tutorials. I remember seeing something about a Pudge tutorial, good move on Valve's part!
As for non-gameplay things like the art, I think Dota 2 clearly has both LoL and HoN beat in this department. Nearly everything is crystal clear on what it is. Terrain is easy on the eyes, and in the teamfights, there are visual and audio cues that make it obvious who is doing what in them.
So to those that are getting frustrated with Dota 2: Keep trying, I guarantee, you will love it once you get better at it. I never really hated it myself, even when I was terrible at it, but I have certainly gotten a lot better at the game. When you do learn it, you will find it incredibly fun to play. Don't bail out and say you're just going to stick to LoL, you CAN learn this game and be good at it. I certainly did.
Back when HoN was in beta, my friend had an extra HoN beta key and invited me to the game. We both played, and neither us had never played a game like it before, we had no idea what the hell we were doing, both fed hard, and then ragequit.
Months later I heard about this "League of Legends" thing that was so popular, so I gave that a try. The tutorial explained what the hell was going on exactly, which was nice, and after a game it seemed like something I could pick up, although I didn't play it that much. Many of my friends in real life frequently played LoL. Then Dota 2 was announced. I'll admit I was a little biased because it was a Valve game, but I was curious about it and researched more on the internet. My initial thought was that League of Legends would prepare me for it. I could not have been more wrong. I found out that HoN was closer to Dota 2, and this was shortly after HoN's free to play update hit, so I decided to give HoN a try. It was noticeably harder, but I was determined to keep trying and learn how to play. I got called a feeder left and right in HoN, because that's what I inadvertently ended up being because I had no idea what I was doing in most situations. Sure, I understood basic things like last hitting and denying, but I had no clue with the items, other than following recommended builds, and plenty of other things. I kept playing HoN occasionally, but generally did pretty terribly at it.
Then I finally got into the Dota 2 beta. This game still had a learning curve similar to HoN's, but it felt like a much better game, and of course I still kept trying to learn the game. I got better and better as time went on. Now I can look back on the other games and compare what was right and wrong with them.
League of Legends just jumped into the trend that I really am annoyed by in gaming today: Appeal to the mass market by dumbing the game down. I remember that most situations in that game, they just called for blowing your spells on the enemies in the right order. Sure there were some spells that had their special uses, but it didn't seem like it was refined. Most teamfights were "Use your ultimate! Now use those other spells!" The worst part is that strategy actually seemed to work. I'm sure it probably didn't work in every situation in that game, but it seemed like it did a lot of the time. On top of that, the heroes or "Champions", if you will, seemed to fit into the "Everyone does everything" category. One example that stuck out in my mind was Ashe the Frost Archer. That was one Champion I remember playing a few times in LoL, and now I realize she is kind of like Mirana (Ult is similar to her Sacred Arrow) + Drow Ranger (Ice arrows) + Clockwerk (I'm thinking in terms of that hawk thing she had, compare it to Flare) + Ancient Apparition (Ult is global, slows units in area it hits). All four of those heroes have very different roles in Dota (Although I guess AA and Mirana are the most similar in role out of those, but there's still big differences there). The game's system for rotating which Champions are free are what sort of cause this problem, as not everyone will be able to pick strategically since they only can pick from 10 Champions, unless they bought some. Therefore, they end up having to design it where nearly everyone can do everything.
The other thing I remembered after playing more Dota 2/HoN is how ho-hum the early game is in LoL. Towers do a ridiculous amount of damage in that game. If I remember correctly, usually one shot from one can take roughly a quarter of some Champions' health! It practically completely discourages harassing or really early ganks, making things less interesting. The lack of denying also doesn't help with that problem either.
Another thing that bothered me about it was the way some of the models looked. You see these 2D artwork for the models, then you get in game and there's this cel-shaded style, and some of the Champions don't look like their artwork at first glance, making it confusing. Master Yi was an offender of this. Sure, upon closer inspection, he does actually look like the artwork, but at first glance it certainly wasn't what I was expecting.
If LoL is to be praised for something though, it's it's tutorial. It may not have individual tutorials for Champions, but it makes sure to tell you about everything on the map, unlike HoN's tutorial. HoN's tutorial just kind of says "Okay, this is the object of the game, the jungle creeps exist over there, now push mid and win the game!" Having a good tutorial for a game with a steep learning curve like this is absolutely important. I really think that HoN may have been able to edge out LoL in playerbase if it had a tutorial that actually taught more. Given what has been seen in the files so far, it looks like Dota 2 will have good tutorials, including individual hero tutorials. I remember seeing something about a Pudge tutorial, good move on Valve's part!
As for non-gameplay things like the art, I think Dota 2 clearly has both LoL and HoN beat in this department. Nearly everything is crystal clear on what it is. Terrain is easy on the eyes, and in the teamfights, there are visual and audio cues that make it obvious who is doing what in them.
So to those that are getting frustrated with Dota 2: Keep trying, I guarantee, you will love it once you get better at it. I never really hated it myself, even when I was terrible at it, but I have certainly gotten a lot better at the game. When you do learn it, you will find it incredibly fun to play. Don't bail out and say you're just going to stick to LoL, you CAN learn this game and be good at it. I certainly did.
Awesome. I'm stealing this for the next OT.
Also, I just finished the OT2 and it should be up tomorrow or Friday depending on how fast this thread moves.
I H8 Memes
Member
I'm terrible at this game, but I still love it. Me and a friend with 3 randoms just lost 2 - 59 against bots.
Fun fact, the Towers in LoL will deal 22.5% extra damage for each extra hit, capping at 135% extra Damage. Also, they start at 152 Damage.
Actually there is a move like Shadow Poison in LoL, there is Twitch's Moves. He has a built in passive which puts Venom Stacks on People (Caps at 6 stacks, last 6 second), and his skill Expunge makes people take 20-60 Extra Damage Per stack of Venom on them.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Twitch
Also, while it doesn't have the active, there is a Shiva's Guard Equivalent in LoL:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Frozen_Heart
God damn thats poor. Do you guys at have the Controles down yet? Moving the character, leveling skills, using skills, buying items, having the courier bring items? How about using things like Wards, and consumables?
I think it would be best up Friday, to try and keep the update talk out of the first few pages. I think the mods shouldn't mind the topic going a bit past 20k if it happens.
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
Did you random draft? To be fair sometimes my brother and i can go about 59-2 against bots because the bots won't buy items or the AI isn't finished for some of the bots.
For fleshing out some of their fav champs you mean nerfing every flavour of the week to oblivion? Because that's the only kind of community interaction i remember.
I played lol from april to November 15th (the day after my birthday) when i received the invite to Dota 2, never looked back since.
close to the edge
Member
Nooo, not at all. For a while, I was kind of thinking the same thing, she was picked in a lot of high level games but her animation is shitty, she's slow and dies so quickly. But then I played her a few times and she's one of my favorite supports now.
First off, she has two nukes very early on (from level 2 on, basically). Very few heroes have two nukes at the early stages of the game. The slow has huge range as well (I forgot the exact range numbers, but with the casting range + the AoE of the slow, you have something like 1000 maximum range to slow someone) and the stun/freeze is very valuable when people tower-dive you or when setting up for a kill.
As for items, as a CM (or Warlock for that matter) you usually play the 5. (meaning you get the least farm in the team, the 1 is the hard carry) This means, people expect you to buy all the wards and to only buy real items if you have some spare gold. That works in games where you can rely on your teammates but in pubs that's not always the case.
I usually get Phase Boots on her for easier positioning (you can get Treads instead if you die a lot and need the HP or Arcanes if no one else gets them). She can carry a Mekansm as well, but be careful because if the enemy realize that you hold a Mek, they will make you a priority target (if they're smart). You don't really need a lot of mana items, I hardly ever run out of mana with her. Instead you should get some items that make you more resilient. Up until now I usually got 2 Bracers and maybe Drum of Endurance if I had a lot of money. Purely by HP per gold spent, a Vitality Booster is very effective as well and only uses one item slot. (Booster costs 1100 gold, gives 250 HP, 2 Bracers cost 1050 and give you 168 HP)
The most important aspect of playing any support is positioning. People will often focus you in a teamfight and you need to be in a position where people either don't notice you immediately or focusing you is impractical because you're too far away (example: in a fight around the Roshan pit, you position yourself up on the Dire high ground next to the ancient creeps to cast your spells). This will come with experience. I'm still fairly new to playing support "the right way", so I'm not very good at it yet myself.
Got into the beta, only experience with Dota was playing the first one a few years back and being told to fuck off and join a newbie server in my first game (I couldn't find any at the time )
Played a quick match with bots:
I do want to get into it but as everyone says, there is a steep learning curve.
)Played a quick match with bots:
I do want to get into it but as everyone says, there is a steep learning curve.
Risible
Member
New players or people still learning: come idle in the "NeoGAF Noobs" channel. As we get more people it'll be easier and easier to get a game. We only had 4 or 5 last night but even with that few people Perry Farrel and I - no, not that Perry Farrel - teamed up for a couple of fun games.
- teamed up for a couple of fun games.kingellesar
Member
So I just logged in and Dota 2 popped up in Steam, going to download now. I am a complete beginner, anything I need to know to get me started?!
New players or people still learning: come idle in the "NeoGAF Noobs" channel. As we get more people it'll be easier and easier to get a game. We only had 4 or 5 last night but even with that few people Perry Farrel and I - no, not that Perry Farrel
Nice to know, I just got a beta invite yesterday
You tab, it goes to the next unit in the control group. Tada.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Man, I don't think I would ever use tab. I wouldn't trust it to pick what I needed. Control groups for this man!
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
That's exactly how it worked in WC3 if you ever played that.
Got into the beta, only experience with Dota was playing the first one a few years back and being told to fuck off and join a newbie server in my first game (I couldn't find any at the time
Played a quick match with bots:
I do want to get into it but as everyone says, there is a steep learning curve.
Same here. Got in but i have no idea what's going on.
There are plenty of good beginner guides located on the web. I read a lot on playdota.com.
Set up a game with no bots and wander around the map, get used to how the shop works, items, skills and so on. Then add bots.
When you feel comfortable try your hand at matchmaking. If you haven't played before you'll probably get destroyed but don't worry, it happens to everyone (despite what they say). Just keep going back for more.
I would suggest picking one hero first and play just with them for your first dozen games or so, so that you get used to the game mechanics. It is important to understand the capabilities of all the heros but not when you're just starting out. That will come later.
My one suggestion starting out (which may differ to other people): avoiding getting killed is more important than getting kills. Learn how to play safe - when it's same to "farm" a lane and so on - and the rest will come in time.
Godspeed!
somone linked this awhile ago, I like this one too
http://www.dotahut.com/guides.php
Site is still new but a bunch of new guides have been added. Both this and playdota is a good place to start. With playdota you will need to use the firefox plugin because some of the guides use images from the dota1 and it might confuse ppl.
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