Hot Coldman
Banned
My body is ready to be beaten by a SWAT team
You are just stating your opinion tkscz. Screen shots are not a full proof method to analyze the intrinsics of a game visuals. Watching the games running in the 360 prove other wise. Ask anyone well versed in rendering and they will tell you how both PD and Kameo are a generation ahead of anything the PS2 or 360 could deliver, even ironically when one considers the fact that both projects were born in past gen hardware.
In the Perfect Dark case it featured Parallax Mapping a very taxing effect that went missing for a lot of AAA projects that came later into this generation of consoles. I think it featured HDR aslo. In the case of Kameo while the effects are more or less similar to what we got used to in the Xbox 1 life, it had a monumental increase of them in quantity and complexity, just look at the huge amount of alpha texture being used and the game sported one of the best example of realtime geometry instancing we had seen in a console.
So yes we can safely call them next generation games.
Yeah, that's something I never really understood. On the other hand, Factor5 had atmospheric light scattering in a Gamecube launch title.In the Perfect Dark case it featured Parallax Mapping a very taxing effect that went missing for a lot of AAA projects that came later into this generation of consoles.
Yeah, that's something I never really understood. On the other hand, Factor5 had atmospheric light scattering in a Gamecube launch title.
Ask anyone well versed in rendering and they will tell you how both PD and Kameo are a generation ahead of anything the PS2 or 360 could deliver
I see, so Kameo is an Xbox 720 launch game huh?
It is visually that Kameo and PD Zero are a generation ahead of the 6th (PS2/XBOX/GC). But for example in terms of play mechanics, simulations or control methods then no, they are basically upgraded PS2/XBOX era games.Except Visually, which is all I was talking about. Also I did forget about Oblivion, but that did come a year after launch, so my point still stands I believe.
Factor 5 did the scattering effect for the sequel Rebel Strike, i think wsippel. But in any case it was an approximation and Eggbert never disscussed how they achive it. Its similar to Shadows of the Colossus case, Team Ico did an approximation of HDR but it is not exactly it nor it means the PS2 is capable of doing it in game scenarios. They had to manually make bounding boxes for differnt bloom factors if im not mistaken. A very time consuming process.Yeah, that's something I never really understood. On the other hand, Factor5 had atmospheric light scattering in a Gamecube launch title.
I see, so Kameo is an Xbox 720 launch game huh?
Typing mistake, it was xbox 1 not 360No, he's just a really big fan of Kameo and thinks it looks better than anything else on the 360. Bar none.
The games at a console's launch will always look worse than the games coming years later, thanks to understand the console innards, that is partly what my statement is about, PS4/XB3 launch games will mostly be up-ports or projects moved to the new console that were already in development, considering this, I really don't think any of those games at launch were that full "10x" better graphically and I know that is subjective, so I will put it into context, I think Assassin's creed and Gears of War looked a full generation above Xbox, there were some good looking Xbox games.
In case people forgot "Black" http://www.ign.com/images/games/black-xbox-683537/4fa6ca27cdc388ed13ec6d5b and then there was also Ninja Gaiden http://www.ign.com/images/games/ninja-gaiden-black-xbox-745543/4fa6c9fecdc388ed13eb9311
What I am saying is that people should expect games that look "10x" better than this: http://www.ign.com/images/games/uncharted-3-drakes-deception-ps3-94314/4fa6cb6fcdc388ed13f62b18
If Wii U can look like this at launch but with the added effects of a modern graphics card,(lighting, tessellation, better physics) and Devs start to unlock the true power of the console a year or two later when PS4/XB3 launch; their launch games will likely look only slightly better than Wii U's games releasing around that same time.
That is a pretty interesting prospect IMO.
It is visually that Kameo and PD Zero are a generation ahead of the 6th (PS2/XBOX/GC). But for example in terms of play mechanics, simulations or control methods then no, they are basically upgraded PS2/XBOX era games.
Factor 5 did the scattering effect for the sequel Rebel Strike, i think wsippel. But in any case it was an approximation and Eggbert never disscussed how they achive it. Its similar to Shadows of the Colossus case, Team Ico did an approximation of HDR but it is not exactly it nor it means the PS2 is capable of doing it in game scenarios. They had to manually make bounding boxes for differnt bloom factors if im not mistaken. A very time consuming process.
And yea, is too bad some of the IQ effects some of us expected at the beginning of this cycle took a significant hit or were missing altogether. Remember how good the IQ was on some of those early 360 ports? They actually featured a good amount of aniso filtering, some of the AAA stuff dropped a lot of IQ enhancing stuff to get some of the other in vogue effects cause the consoles couldn't handle them.
Typing mistake, it was xbox 1 not 360
This is true except that wii U or the latter machines are "the same" than this generation. There is no need to make new development tools (or not too different) to work with the new machines as all the companies have to do with x360/ps3. Basically the architecture will be very close.
So in theory you could have better (much better) things at launch in this machines than in other generations.
It is visually that Kameo and PD Zero are a generation ahead of the 6th (PS2/XBOX/GC). But for example in terms of play mechanics, simulations or control methods then no, they are basically upgraded PS2/XBOX era games.
Factor 5 did the scattering effect for the sequel Rebel Strike, i think wsippel. But in any case it was an approximation and Eggbert never disscussed how they achive it. Its similar to Shadows of the Colossus case, Team Ico did an approximation of HDR but it is not exactly it nor it means the PS2 is capable of doing it in game scenarios. They had to manually make bounding boxes for differnt bloom factors if im not mistaken. A very time consuming process.
And yea, is too bad some of the IQ effects some of us expected at the beginning of this cycle took a significant hit or were missing altogether. Remember how good the IQ was on some of those early 360 ports? They actually featured a good amount of aniso filtering, some of the AAA stuff dropped a lot of IQ enhancing stuff to get some of the other in vogue effects cause the consoles couldn't handle them.
Typing mistake, it was xbox 1 not 360
True but we'll see things like Assassin's Creed III at launch, which is fine for me to begin with from a tech' pov.This is true except that wii U or the latter machines are "the same" than this generation. There is no need to make new development tools (or not too different) to work with the new machines as all the companies had to do with x360/ps3. Basically the architecture will be very close.
So in theory you could have better (much better) things at launch in this machines than in other generations.
Besides I don't think we will see things like uncharted 3 (or better) at wii U launch. It's my personal opinion, I hope I'll be wrong.
I think Iherre was essentially referring to the general pipelines, so your point still stands. That, plus software advancements during the course of a console generations are not to be underestimated either. For instance, we did not have deferred shading at the start of this passing gen. Now many competent titles use it across the board, and as a results, titles have much richer lighting, while little-to-nothing changed in the hw or dev's understanding of hw.If this gen unlocks the full potential of a console at launch, that would be very surprising to me, even if it's basically the same hardware only more of it, they should find extra power in using these new features, a balance comes into play with visuals I would assume, and you have a give and take for what you are doing that might be more obvious the second or third time you develop a full game on the hardware... I mean they should all have their strength and weaknesses that I would assume isn't blatantly apparent to your average developer.
I think Iherre was essentially referring to the general pipelines, so your point still stands. That, plus software advancements during the course of a console generations are not to be underestimated either. For instance, we did not have deferred shading at the start of this passing gen. Now many competent titles use it across the board, and as a results, titles have much richer lighting, while little-to-nothing changed in the hw or dev's understanding of hw.
Oh my.
Seems like there's something every other day or so that reinforces the notion that Nintendo fans are an, umm, interesting breed. Remarkable.
(also: ~530 hours remain!)
For some reason you are ignoring my past comments on why visually both Kameo and PD Zero sported next generation visuals at the Xbox 360 launch. To make a summation, both games featured a collection effects/technics or amounts of them that just weren't possible in the previous consoles. This is contrasting with the ports, say something like King Kong which were just upresed projects with better IQ settings.Yes, the console hardware was next gen, but if features of the graphics card alone tells you that it's a next gen console, 3DS is a full generation beyond PSP, and PSV is a full generation beyond 3DS, that just isn't how we measure it, Kameo looks like an xbox game with added effects, just look at the links above to black and ninja gaiden, sure Kameo is better looking, but not "10x" better looking, and certainly not as good looking as Oblivion or uncharted.
you don't have to be nice and hold back...
Nintendo fans stop embarrassing me!
This pleases me, I don't think Wii U will be a beast, but if it can look like uncharted 3 at launch (before holiday 2013) with better lighting/tessellation, I'll be perfectly content with that, even if XB3 looks like epic's demo.
For some reason you are ignoring my past comments on why visually both Kameo and PD Zero sported next generation visuals at the Xbox 360 launch. To make a summation, both games featured a collection effects/technics or amounts of them that just weren't possible in the previous consoles. This is contrasting with the ports, say something like King Kong which were just upresed projects with better IQ settings.
And regards to Uncharted, what's the point? Of course game visuals improve as the generation goes on. That's deviating from the point. Im not claiming Kameo is the best looking game on 360.
Anyway, to prove my original point is valid (true next gen launch games) , if you wan let's forget about Kameo and PD Zero. Project Gotham 3 was a next generation game not buts about it
Dude, PGR3 is the game that invented pixel counters. It ran at 600p and you could tell.Anyway, to prove my original point is valid (true next gen launch games) , if you wan let's forget about Kameo and PD Zero. Project Gotham 3 was a next generation game not buts about it
Besides I don't think we will see things like uncharted 3 (or better) at wii U launch. It's my personal opinion, I hope I'll be wrong.
This is kinda similar to how I feel. I like touch controls, and I like the idea of streaming video, but they're gimmicks I'm not really interested in. I would prefer touch interface gimmicks be kept to the 3DS, and as neat as game streaming is the reality is I'll rarely use it (as in, TV being used, thus I play on the pad). Nice for others who do, pretty useless to me.
I expect uses to be mixed but, as a whole, gimmicky, as most games will not be built specifically for the Wii U. Even neat stuff like what IdeaMan suggest with Assassin's Creed 3 really aren't enough. Doesn't matter how neat or useful the gimmick is: it's not how the game was designed from the ground up, and it's not going to be enough to sell me on that port. I don't care about additional birds eye hunting cameras on the Wii U Pad when I can play the same game, minus the gimmick, just as effectively and significantly better looking on my PC.
But this goes hand in hand with my disinterest in the pad as a whole, because of how much I love the Wii remote. I was actually disappointed with the pad. Neat it may be, but unique it is not. It's an extension of the DS/3DS philosophy, now on a console. The actually controller itself is back peddling to pander to pad-only gamers who can't hack the sheer awesomeness of the Wii Remote, which is ultimately the superior, more original and unique control scheme. When I look at the Wii U pad I see a touch screen with a traditional controller attached to it. With the Wii Remote I see awesome motion controls, comfortable split controller design, and the incredible IR pointer.
In my head, I would have much preferred to see the Wii U simply refine the Wii Remote philosophy with stronger hardware. I wanted to see the Wii dream evolve, Nintendo and others taking the Wii remote to new levels. Given the NES->SNES and N64->GCN path of progress, I totally expected this to happen. Wii->Wii U. And yeah, it's backwards compatible, and a lot of games will still probably use the remotes, I just don't care about the pad.
This is especially true for what you said: it's an more expensive unit that will detract from hardware strength relative to sale price.
Tim Sweeney hints at high-powered Xbox 360 and PS3 successors
Echoing comments made by Epic VP Mark Rein earlier this year, the company's founder said one of the things next-gen hardware needs is "raw performance".
CVG
I'm pretty sure the rumor that FOXCONN will be manufacturing the WiiU was brought up already but anyways, I guess this confirms it. (if it wasn't already confirmed)
It's a financial forecast by HSBC for FOXCONN (Mar. 27, 2012), basically saying that they are expecting a strong 2nd 2012 half, mainly from the launch of WiiU and Iphone 5.
(economics is def. not my thing - I hope I'm not reading it all wrong)
Old?
This is true except that wii U or the latter machines are "the same" than this generation. There is no need to make new development tools (or not too different) to work with the new machines as all the companies had to do with x360/ps3. Basically the architecture will be very close.
So in theory you could have better (much better) things at launch in this machines than in other generations.
Besides I don't think we will see things like uncharted 3 (or better) at wii U launch. It's my personal opinion, I hope I'll be wrong.
And I think you are very optimistic for launch games hehe (Uncharted is a "beast" in some ways).
But basically blu is correct about my thoughts. I'm not saying that this machines won't have any progress at all, but I think developers will be more adapted/comfortable to them at first that they were with x360 and ps3.
And I think you are very optimistic for launch games hehe (Uncharted is a "beast" in some ways).
But basically blu is correct about my thoughts. I'm not saying that this machines won't have any progress at all, but I think developers will be more adapted/comfortable to them at first that they were with x360 and ps3.
Tim Sweeney hints at high-powered Xbox 360 and PS3 successors
Echoing comments made by Epic VP Mark Rein earlier this year, the company's founder said one of the things next-gen hardware needs is "raw performance".
CVG
No. He's saying devs don't have to rewrite the book with the Wii U, PS4 or Durango.So what you're say is, from a multiplat dev standpoint, it's a current-gen machine?
Nintendo fans are friggin' incredible.you don't have to be nice and hold back...
Nintendo fans stop embarrassing me!
No. He's saying devs don't have to rewrite the book with the Wii U, PS4 or Durango.
While I do believe the Upad has some potential for certain things, I also preferred refining the Wiimote over that decision. IMO the Upad is another one of Nintendo's overreactions that I mentioned not too long ago. I felt and still feel that dual pointer controls could have been the proper replacement of dual analog. Every now and then I still wish the screen was detachable from a dual Wiimote setup.
And I think you are very optimistic for launch games hehe (Uncharted is a "beast" in some ways).
I'm pretty sure the rumor that FOXCONN will be manufacturing the WiiU was brought up already but anyways, I guess this confirms it. (if it wasn't already confirmed)
It's an old-ish financial forecast by HSBC for FOXCONN (Mar. 27, 2012), basically saying that they are expecting a strong 2nd 2012 half, mainly from the launch of WiiU and Iphone 5.
(economics is def. not my thing - I hope I'm not reading it all wrong)
Old?
Reports claim that Microsoft has commissioned both IBM (primary) and Global Foundries (secondary) to build a PowerPC-based System on a Chip (SoC) -- codenamed Oban -- for the next Xbox console (720/Loop/Next). The reports also claim that the 32-nm chip entered production back in December 2011, and will be available for development kits slated to arrive at game studios by April.
I think if they focus on asymmetric gaming, and add a Wiimote in the box, it will become a standard controller, I mean MKwii and Smash use all available controllers, there is something like 4 options for both, 5 if you count ccp as it's own. I am hoping that COD uses Wiimote controls as well as Upad. We will have to wait and see, but my fingers are crossed... btw I don't think the tablet is in anyway pointless, there is a lot of gaming designs that can be pushed into reality thanks to that controller, a lot are asymmetric, but it's by no means the only one.
Nintendo fans are friggin' incredible.
Example that I have noticed recently:
Go on etsy and do a search for, say, "Zelda." Count the results.
Next, go on and plug-in any IP from one of the other console makers. Count those results.
We're crazy-passionate about the product. It's one reason I'm always pretty comfortable about Nintendo's future - we (the crazies) simply won't allow them to go away, even if it's just for an unremarkably little corner-of-the-market, GameCube-like existence.
No mention of Microsoft I take it.
Sorry, but this
Sounds like WiiU. When did developers get their new kits?
Just recently right?
Runing sub HD doesn't disqualified as a next gen gaming. Resolution is just a part of the visual's equation.Dude, PGR3 is the game that invented pixel counters. It ran at 600p and you could tell.
You are purposely dancing around the issues z0m3le. If in your opinion Kameo or PD Zero are not generational leaps. You had Project Gotham at launch which represents a clear show case of a generational leap in visuals.http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=EpykEFAplVskuCnPNW I think Project Gotham Racing 2 looked pretty damn good, I didn't ignore your points about effects, I'm not taking away from the FACT that they are on "next gen hardware" at the time that they released, but those games, visually didn't produce a full leap in graphics,
This part of your post i have issues with because plain and simple is self constructed so you can give some type of reply. First because is so obvious, "the visual in games improves as a generation goes by" "so 2 later released games (Creed and Oblivion) look better". That's never being up for debate in the first place.z0m3le said:the effects did move the bar, just not as far as Assassin's creed or even Oblivion, which were that full generational leap graphically (or "10x" better) and that is just an opinion of mine I guess, we can both agree hopefully that launch 360 games didn't look as good as present ones, which I guess is my whole point...
No, Microsoft is not mentioned in that report.
No sure I understand the second part of your post. Where's that from?
Awhile back wsippel began mentioning that the Semiaccurate rumored Oban chip for the next Xbox console may actually be for Wii U. Quite a few things since the rumor was released point to the notion being fairly possible.
Awhile back wsippel began mentioning that the Semiaccurate rumored Oban chip for the next Xbox console may actually be for Wii U. Quite a few things since the rumor was released point to the notion being fairly possible.
Yup. And the best advice I would've given Sony or MS is to create and nurture the hell out of a select number of widely-appealing, core IPs so that they'd have what would essentially be guaranteed income. In rough times, it could make a very critical difference. Imagine how different the Vita's fate would've been had Sony continued to nurture and evolve their earlier mascot characters.I think a part of that is because of how long Nintendo's history is in gaming.
But you are definitely right about how passionate we are about Nintendo. And I'm proud of that passion. Great company. They make a few boneheaded decisions once in a while, but still a great company.