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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days

Or they will just drop Invasion.

Seriously. They are "reinventing" the core multiplayer modes. They are hinting that we'll have traditional multiplayer alongside it. We have old and new slayer, BTB and everything else and still have room for shit like Invasion. And what about the other fringe gametypes, SWAT, Griffball, Zombies. They aren't going to have 20+ playlists again.

And besides, if they're going to listen to the community and give the player base what it wants, then it's going to be something like Zombies. Give up the Invasion hopes and prey Forge 3.0 supports the gametype so you can play it in customs or something.

Invasion requires serious support and dedicated levels and I'd be severely disappointed if 343 don't learn from Reach and make the same mistakes with that mode. Halo 4 needs to focus on the core Halo experience. Slayer. Objective and BTB and nail these things down.
Headhunter, hot potato and Invasion and all that crap from Reach should be left behind.
They can start adding playlists and such once they get everything right, why blame Reach's horrendous number of playlists into these "fringe gametypes" and not in the TU/Vanilla/ZB crap introduced by 343 or the whole Slayer only playlists (I count more than 6)...it got even worst with Anniversary, do Grifball and Living Dead disturb you that much?

Invasion won't have dedicated maps and gametype at launch but I think it'll be a really bad move from 343 to totally scrap the only somewhat popular gametype Reach introduced and pretend Reach never happened, something I think they're not doing: hologram, sprint, camo, jetpack... yeah, sounds familiar.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
If Forge is actually good people could create their own Invasion maps. Down the line there could even be an Invasion playlist for it too. No resources wasted on making Invasion maps, just let the community do it.
 

Arnie

Member
Aye, Invasion can die in a fire for all I care. BTB doesn't need ancillary objectives or slowly expanding maps. Just give lots of players an objective and a sandbox and they're almost bound to have fun. I had more fun playing one bomb on Valhalla than I did playing Invasion, ever.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Invasion won't have dedicated maps and gametype at launch but I think it'll be a really bad move from 343 to totally scrap the only somewhat popular gametype Reach introduced and pretend Reach never happened, something I think they're not doing: hologram, sprint, camo, jetpack... yeah, sounds familiar.

Introducing a marginally improved special gametype that is overlapping with BTB would be a bad move, worse than leaving it out altogheter, i think. Invasion needs maps made specifcally for it, each one should be unique with its own unique objectives, sound effects and events (like the Longswords on Boneyard), not Forged crap. Also, ability to customize loadouts, "buy" vehicles and power weapons...
 
Do you guys think they'll actually develop some sort of decent zombie mode with Flood that have their own unique abilities, or will it be more of the same crap that's been in the past games? People seem to be content with the same old... Crazy considering you actually have zombie (of sorts) in the fiction.

No flood confirmed in Halo 4 so they aint going to go out their way to make the models just for a MP mode.

Its also pretty pointless, Zombies is so far removed from the main game dedicating time to make a a flood form playable with animations and such just for a "community" gametype is redundant.

Zombies was best in Halo 2 when i worked on honour rules. In a ideal world id relegate it back to weekend playlists with Griffball and all that bullshit in Action sack like hockey and plinko and stuff but this opinion has been met with strong resistance before so yea i doubt thats happening soon. Kids gotta boost that KDR in zombies

Id rather invasion got the playlist space that Griffball and stuff does, (obviously not happening since it requires custom maps)
 
If Forge is actually good people could create their own Invasion maps. Down the line there could even be an Invasion playlist for it too. No resources wasted on making Invasion maps, just let the community do it.
This is what I'm hoping for, I also love BTB so getting some real BTB maps from launch would be really sweet.

Really good forge invasion maps are possible, see: Overgrowrh, Meteora, Floodgate, Broadcast and Traxus.

Only downside is all of them are a gray crapfest, hopefully H4 introduces new colors, COLORS!
 

FyreWulff

Member
Zombies doesn't take that much to support. Your map works with Slayer? Congratulations, it's compatible with Zombies!

Also I don't expect Invasion from a new developer. Them never even attempting an Invasion map in DLC shows that you need a developer with the institutional experience like Bungie to even pull it off, let alone a new dev (343) or a dev doing maps as a side contract (CA)

Also, 343 is to blame for the current Reach overglut of playlists, not Bungie.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
They can start adding playlists and such once they get everything right, why blame Reach's horrendous number of playlists into these "fringe gametypes" and not in the TU/Vanilla/ZB crap introduced by 343 or the whole Slayer only playlists (I count more than 6)...it got even worst with Anniversary, do Grifball and Living Dead disturb you that much?

Invasion won't have dedicated maps and gametype at launch but I think it'll be a really bad move from 343 to totally scrap the only somewhat popular gametype Reach introduced and pretend Reach never happened, something I think they're not doing: hologram, sprint, camo, jetpack... yeah, sounds familiar.

343 are clearly not ignoring Reach. Reach brought much to the franchise but they shouldn't be forced to take everything either.

Invasion should stay behind with Armour Lock and Hot Potato in the Halo remedial classroom whilst the rest of the class graduates.

And I agree about the Slayer mess in Reach. Reach is a a clusterfuck of various options. Classic Slayer, TU Slayer, ZB Slayer, Super Slayer.... gawd. I weep for the poor casual Halo player that comes back and plays Halo every few months - the confusion around which playslists have which specific settings must be aggravating.

343 really need to learn from Reach in this regard. You can't please everyone, clearly, but be surgical. A clean wound heals fast.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Also I don't expect Invasion from a new developer. Them never even attempting an Invasion map in DLC shows that you need a developer with the institutional experience like Bungie to even pull it off, let alone a new dev (343) or a dev doing maps as a side contract (CA)

Yeah, well, it ain't like Bungie did a good job either. None of their Invasion maps is actully great.... They have so many faults each of them.... And i find the Breakpoint to be worst of them, it feels like they didnt' learn anything about Boneyard and The Spire.
 

feel

Member
Saw these floating around on the webs, from the premium Halo 4 theme.

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Requiem looks so fucking awesome.
 

darthbob

Member
343 are clearly not ignoring Reach. Reach brought much to the franchise but they shouldn't be forced to take everything either.

Invasion should stay behind with Armour Lock and Hot Potato in the Halo remedial classroom whilst the rest of the class graduates.

And I agree about the Slayer mess in Reach. Reach is a a clusterfuck of various options. Classic Slayer, TU Slayer, ZB Slayer, Super Slayer.... gawd. I weep for the poor casual Halo player that comes back and plays Halo every few months - the confusion around which playslists have which specific settings must be aggravating.

343 really need to learn from Reach in this regard. You can't please everyone, clearly, but be surgical. A clean wound heals fast.

You've certainly hit the nail on the proverbial head with the exorbitant amount of 'experiences' that Reach MM currently offers. While variety is nice, I look back on Halo 2's days of MM, specifically 2005 with great regard for playlist management. Things were concise, and varied. That sort of cleanliness combined with a non-defunct ranking system would be, to me, glourious. However I do think that Invasion, with some 'tuning' could be a really awesome mode for Halo 4.
 
Yeah, well, it ain't like Bungie did a good job either. None of their Invasion maps is actully great.... They have so many faults each of them.... And i find the Breakpoint to be worst of them, it feels like they didnt' learn anything about Boneyard and The Spire.
They're pretty perfect except for Spire (Banshee camping Elite spawns) what you don't like about them?

Edit: wut? I freaking love Breakpoint, it blew my mind the two times I played it!
 
Zombies doesn't take that much to support. Your map works with Slayer? Congratulations, it's compatible with Zombies!

Also I don't expect Invasion from a new developer. Them never even attempting an Invasion map in DLC shows that you need a developer with the institutional experience like Bungie to even pull it off, let alone a new dev (343) or a dev doing maps as a side contract (CA)

Also, 343 is to blame for the current Reach overglut of playlists, not Bungie.

Didnt know bungie mad the noble map pack, always thought it was CA.

Still i dont think it takes anything of exception to make a invasion map its essentially a tiered big team map.
 
Or they will just drop Invasion.

Seriously. They are "reinventing" the core multiplayer modes. They are hinting that we'll have traditional multiplayer alongside it. We have old and new slayer, BTB and everything else and still have room for shit like Invasion. And what about the other fringe gametypes, SWAT, Griffball, Zombies. They aren't going to have 20+ playlists again.

And besides, if they're going to listen to the community and give the player base what it wants, then it's going to be something like Zombies. Give up the Invasion hopes and prey Forge 3.0 supports the gametype so you can play it in customs or something.

Invasion requires serious support and dedicated levels and I'd be severely disappointed if 343 don't learn from Reach and make the same mistakes with that mode. Halo 4 needs to focus on the core Halo experience. Slayer. Objective and BTB and nail these things down.
Headhunter, hot potato and Invasion and all that crap from Reach should be left behind
.

I agree completely but I don't think we've seen the back of that sort of thing. Regicide already announced and they said that new gametypes and modes will be on show at E3. Flag, bomb, hill and slayer are enough for me but most game studios feel the need to include a clutch of new gametypes to justify the latest installment and I can understand why. Reach's objective additions were mostly poor though I do enjoy Headhunter in multiteam: DMR starts, BK popcorn errwhere, no skullamanjaros ending the game in 30 seconds.

Edit: VVV My reaction when reading that
 

FyreWulff

Member
Didnt know bungie mad the noble map pack, always thought it was CA.

Still i dont think it takes anything of exception to make a invasion map its essentially a tiered big team map.

It sounds like you just make 3 tiers of a BTB map, but even in Forge Invasion is a big time investment. There's just so many damn moving parts and things to worry about, as you're essentially forging 3 maps and 3 game modes at once, where the weapon layout and vehicle layout morphs as it goes. Now imagine not having the pre-built skeleton of an existing map to start with.

It's easy to tell that Bungie made the Noble Map Pack, there's actually shield doors available in Forge on those maps. Certain Affinity has no shield doors on any of their maps, which definitely hurts forging Invasion onto their maps as you can't make true safe spawns for either team.
 
Going through Keyes anniversary terminal again it looks like there's some footage there from when ancient humanity battled against the Forerunner. Still my favorite terminal.
 
It sounds like you just make 3 tiers of a BTB map, but even in Forge Invasion is a big time investment. There's just so many damn moving parts and things to worry about, as you're essentially forging 3 maps and 3 game modes at once, where the weapon layout and vehicle layout morphs as it goes. Now imagine not having the pre-built skeleton of an existing map to star twith.

It's easy to tell that Bungie made the Noble Map Pack, there's actually shield doors available in Forge on those maps. Certain Affinity has no shield doors on any of their maps, which definitely hurts forging Invasion onto their maps as you can't make true safe spawns for either team.

On a sidenote who made that Headlong Invasion map, i want to try that out with HaloGAF sometime.
 

FyreWulff

Member
On a sidenote who made that Headlong Invasion map, i want to try that out with HaloGAF sometime.

Depends, if it's the one I think you're talking about, I made it. Gabo was making another one but I'm not sure if he ever showed it in the thread.

I'll probably be releasing the final version next month.
 

Woorloog

Banned
They're pretty perfect except for Spire (Banshee camping Elite spawns) what you don't like about them?

Everything about them sucks.

Boneyard works somewhat okay with 12 players but Breakpoint is definetly done with 16 players in mind. The Spire works ok with 12 people but it starts sucking really bad if either team loses even one person.
All of the maps are too large, they lack easy way to get to front lines if you chose a wrong spawn (accidentally, forced, thought you would get something but didn't). The Spire especially suffers from this.
Boneyard's extraction zone and the route to it is horrible. Boneyard's Spartan vehicle spawns are horrible, the Elites can just wait till the tank comes slightly out of the garage and blow it up. Besides, the Scorpion has no place in Halo multiplayer, it is just that overpowered, no amount of tweaking can change that. (So is Reach Banshee...)
The Spire's final phase is idiotic too, people just throw down the core and then it is a race to whoever gets first a bubble shield over the core. That is, if the Banshee is not a factor. The second phase is stupid due to Armor lock and, IMO, bad placements of the "hills", two small rooms with just one entrance...
Both original Invasion maps have okay first phase though precision weapons can make Boneyard 1st phase really awful, too little cover for the Elites from high ground.
Breakpoint is just bad. The extraction is even worse than the others, just a long direct line without cover. The core being a "support weapon" was a stupid decision as it makes use of vehicles impossible in practice.
All maps suffer from this idiotic "defenders can go to camp attacker spawns". Defenders should be defending, the map desing should not allow them to be "attackers".

EDIT as i said, Invasion can be fun with a full party (preffably having the other team also people you know won't quit, ie HaloGAFers) or when people don't quit but play seriously. But those matches are rare. And the maps themselves certainly don't make the game fun.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
As someone that enjoys Invasion more than most people here, I think they should drop it, for the reasons you listed.

As for 20+ playlists, I think it's going to happen. I think they will continue their arguably misguided mission of trying to make everyone happy.

I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Also, Invasion is wonky on DLC maps. Tempest has the sirens constantly going off and Headlong doesn't have sirens go off at all.

It probably doesn't help that we're still stuck with the launch disc variant of Invasion for any non-Breakpoint/Boneyard/Spire map. So while all those maps have the bugfixed gametype, we're still rolling with a gametype from Reach launch for any FW/other DLC map variants.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.
am cry
 

Woorloog

Banned
I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.

Yes, this, this, this.
Just focus on Halo 4 and improving and tweaking it to produce a best possible experience.
 
I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.

Agree. The playerbase fractures itself enough as it is. Let the players play how they want in Customs, and perhaps a major playlist later on down the line. But at the start, keep it simple.
 
Also, Invasion is wonky on DLC maps. Tempest has the sirens constantly going off and Headlong doesn't have sirens go off at all.

It probably doesn't help that we're still stuck with the launch disc variant of Invasion for any non-Breakpoint/Boneyard/Spire map. So while all those maps have the bugfixed gametype, we're still rolling with a gametype from Reach launch for any FW/other DLC map variants.
We can't even set different times for arming and detonating bomb options and that's something Bungie did on Breakpoint afaik
 
I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.

EqRJH.gif
 

kylej

Banned
I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.

That's why we need a custom game/server browser.
 

senador

Banned
So sexy, I can't wait to see more of this game...that said, the things I'm moist excited for are the outdoor environments we saw in some of the Sparth art. Also, I hope halo 4 has some snowy environments, I would love to see the outdoor area of Solitary in action. Bring on e3.

Speaking of e3, I bet we get to see some new enemies, but wont be told exactly who or what they are.. as in what the actual big picture is. One way or another is I hope they show off a lot of the inevitable new sandbox items, we have seen a ton of returning items, I really expected to see more new things.

They had the same effect on me.
 
If there's some 343 folk listening please make the H4 rockets so that they don't slowly go down my target like Reach's one, it's a pointless mechanic and it messed up with some mini games.

Going to bed now <3
 
I just hope that any and all attempts to create a "classic" Halo playlist(s) dies with Reach. The situation we're in now, with the playlist fracturing, just can't happen again. Whatever Halo 4 is, let that define the core game. I realize the situation Reach is in is partly because, well, it's Reach and they tried to slice it to please more of the player base, but I don't want to see a similar reaction with Halo 4. No "classic". Just Halo 4.

Yep, agreed. The fact that Halo has such a disparity from big team to 4v4 to begin with already fragments the game without trying to have "classic" sections of matchmaking. Halo 4 should be Halo 4, for better or worse.

Cyren, I'd love spectator has much as the next guy, but you aware that it's very unlikely right? Wouldn't it be a significant use of RAM, which of course they can't afford on the 360.
 
I'm late but great job on the montage Duncan. Oh and does anyone know why you can post vids directly on gaf mobile but only link them on the normal site?
 
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