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[Pancakes R Us]

I would argue that the money required to secure GTA V as an exclusive would be better spent investing in new IPs that appeal to the same market, and expand Nintendo's portfolio. I'd also argue that doing this, and doing it well, would significantly increase Nintendo's market position, and thus greater revenue, to the point where the likelihood of GTA V arriving with minimal effort from Nintendo, if any at all, would be high. If Rockstar smell money from an audience that will buy GTA V on a Nintendo platform, they will send it there.

I don't mean to imply money spent on GTA V would 'drain' development budgets, just that the money could be spend on expanding development budgets. It's all investments, and I believe with the launch of a new console there are better investments than moneyhatting Rockstar.

Agreed. And if some people's pipe dreams about GTA V being an exclusive on a Nintendo system were to ever come true, I think we'd see the game selling a tiny amount in comparison to the last few console entries as opposed to people buying the system in droves just due to GTA. I think the age of these single super-power games died out a while back.

 

[rhoq]

Oh is it really...

It is. Also from one of many totally badass scenes from the series. I know it has to end, given the premise, but I am not prepared for the upcoming final season. Even worse - they just announced the schedule and it is being split into to two parts (8 episodes each) to in 2012 (July 15th) and 2013 (TBA).

 

[Izick]

Agreed. And if some people's pipe dreams about GTA V being an exclusive on a Nintendo system were to ever come true, I think we'd see the game selling a tiny amount in comparison to the last few console entries as opposed to people buying the system in droves just due to GTA. I think the age of these single super-power games died out a while back.

I don't know. If it's labeled GTA V, and not GTA: Whatever? I think you underestimate the power of that franchise and its numerous fans. It's up there with CoD in terms of loyalty.

 

[EatChildren]

Maybe that's true, but remember that one of the most common criticisms of Nintendo is that they don't "give a damn about third parties." And if Nintendo, quite visibly, spends more of their money making and marketing their own games and not "helping" third parties out, then that image will persist, even if they make a market leading console, it seems.

I do think they need to help entice third parties to shed that label, but I don't really view it as something that needs to be absolutely priority. I believe a lot of what Nintendo needs to gain in the third party department would be a natural progression from success in other areas, notably having a market that wants these games in the first place. Pubs are dumb, pubs are smart, but if they feel money can be made from their big games on Nintendo platforms, they will bring them across.

That said even after expanding at NST and Retro Nintendo would still lack the development muscle they need in western countries. Therefore I think it would be wise to offer buyouts of talented mid-tier studios, such as Gearbox or Next Level Games (NLG). Gearbox would fill the FPS niche that Nintendo very much needs to address and NLG is already very familiar with Nintendo, so it would be an easy transition for them. I'm sure there are several other studios that Nintendo could target as well, does anyone else have some ideas with regards to this?

I think the lesson Nintendo has learned from past relationships is that full buyouts aren't wise. People make games, not company names, and if those people leave you're fucked. Rather than go full scale buyout, they'd be better off either establishing new studios (and expanding Retro and NST, like you said), or simply saddling up with independent studios for limited partnerships, not unlike Microsoft working with Epic on Gears.

That way Nintendo gets the talent and skill of an independent Western developer, but none of the baggage of a forever-term relationship.

 

[Lupin the Third]

I am on the same train of thought that EatChildren is on. Nintendo needs to have a stronger in-house development presence in Western markets. Expanding their existing teams at NST and Retro is a no brainer, and is already being done (at least in Retro's case, not sure about NST).

That said even after expanding at NST and Retro Nintendo would still lack the development muscle they need in western countries. Therefore I think it would be wise to offer buyouts of talented mid-tier studios, such as Gearbox or Next Level Games (NLG). Gearbox would fill the FPS niche that Nintendo very much needs to address and NLG is already very familiar with Nintendo, so it would be an easy transition for them. I'm sure there are several other studios that Nintendo could target as well, any suggestions?

Iwata recently commented on their shift away from purchasing studios due to talent leakage. After they bought Retro, for example, a lot of talented staff ditched the studio. He said they've now moved toward partnerships with proven studios instead of buyouts, which seems to offer better results.

edit: Dang it, EatChildren!!

 

[Jumpman23]

Agreed. And if some people's pipe dreams about GTA V being an exclusive on a Nintendo system were to ever come true, I think we'd see the game selling a tiny amount in comparison to the last few console entries as opposed to people buying the system in droves just due to GTA. I think the age of these single super-power games died out a while back.

I remember seeing the same level of hysteria when GTA was announced for the DS. It came to the platform, but with fairly low sales. IF Nintendo paid big money to get GTA first or exclusively I can only hope it has a chance to showcase the console properly otherwise everyone will balk and wait for the inevitable ports to 360,PS3.

 

[Boogybro]

It is. Also from one of many totally badass scenes from the series. I know it has to end, given the premise, but I am not prepared for the upcoming final season. Even worse - they just announced the schedule and it is being split into to two parts (8 episodes each) to in 2012 (July 15th) and 2013 (TBA).

If it wasn't clear, I was being sarcastic I love BB, and Gustavo is a badass. I posted that particular gif in relation to Nintendo's bomb droppingness.

It'll be interesting to see where they go from the way that season ended.

 

[sphinx]

I would like to respectfully ask:

how did this thread reach 860 posts, 17 pages in a single day? are you people that hyped?

I thought the world hardly knew anything about the changes made to the WiiU, never had thought there was for so much discussion.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Silicon Knights win its case against Epic about their Unreal Engine 3 dissatisfaction but are only entitled to $1 in damages

 

[Jzero]

Man these threads update quick.

 

[EatChildren]

Agreed. And if some people's pipe dreams about GTA V being an exclusive on a Nintendo system were to ever come true, I think we'd see the game selling a tiny amount in comparison to the last few console entries as opposed to people buying the system in droves just due to GTA. I think the age of these single super-power games died out a while back.

That too is important to message: exclusivity doesn't guarantee waves of sales. GTA is massive, but sticking it on once console, a new one at that, is basically saying "this game has a three figure price tag".

That's why Rockstar would have such a high price too. These games cost so much money to make they're not going to be interested in risking an exclusive launch on a new console, not without Nintendo covering potential losses up front. They need these games to launch on multiple systems right out the gate.

I remember seeing the same level of hysteria when GTA was announced for the DS. It came to the platform, but with fairly low sales. IF Nintendo paid big money to get GTA first or exclusively I can only hope it has a chance to showcase the console properly otherwise everyone will balk and wait for the inevitable ports to 360,PS3.

Chinatown Wars selling badly is more evident of the isometric GTA being dead. But the DS market too was predominantly quite young, and most of those kinds of games did poorly on the system. A shame too. Chinatown Wars is my favourite GTA since GTA 2.

 

[rhoq]

Agreed. And if some people's pipe dreams about GTA V being an exclusive on a Nintendo system were to ever come true, I think we'd see the game selling a tiny amount in comparison to the last few console entries as opposed to people buying the system in droves just due to GTA. I think the age of these single super-power games died out a while back.

No way GTA V will be an exclusive for anyone. I wouldn't rule out some sort timed-exclusive content (like Microsoft worked out with GTA IV "episodes"). I also think it's possible there could be a Wii U/3DS exclusive spin-off (which would end up getting re-tooled & ported to other systems a year or so later).

 

[lednerg]

Breaking Bad is on my to-watch list. I saw an episode a while ago and was totally sold on it. Just the fact that Bob Odenkirk is in it is pretty awesome, and Cranston ain't no slouch either.

On-topic: Nintendo's patents mention the ability to display information about the TV program you're currently watching. They also say that you have to type in the channel manually, so we're not talking anything too fancy here. But we did hear about them speaking with cable companies at CES, so I wonder if they're going to go ahead with this. (Patents aren't ever a guarantee of anything happening.)

 

[nordique]

Iwata recently commented on their shift away from purchasing studios due to talent leakage. After they bought Retro, for example, a lot of talented staff ditched the studio. He said they've now moved toward partnerships with proven studios instead of buyouts, which seems to offer better results.

edit: Dang it, EatChildren!!

Still, Retro today is still quite talented.

I do agree that Nintendo should get an additional "western" developer or two.

This strategy alone has paid Sony dividends and may be one of the main reasons Sony had great software for the PS3 - because those western studios they bought during the PS1 and PS2 days gave games that catered to tastes.


Can anyone imagine where Sony would be today, after the PS2, without the Uncharted inFAMOUS Killzone games etc...exclusive for the PS3? I can imagine more than a few gamers would have opted not to purchase a PS3.

This day and age where third party exclusives are not abundant as they were in the PS2 era, first party exclusives are more important.


That said, from a business POV, I do agree with Iwata as well. Talent does leave any acquisition because there's always someone who doesn't agree with the new direction of the company especially the creative ones, don't like working "under" someone else's fixed design. They tend to leave to be "free".

I still feel he is only building these strong foundations only to eventually acquire the right company when it comes along -- he is certainly not against it as under him Monolith Soft was acquired by NIntendo.

 

[brochiller]

Chinatown Wars selling badly is more evident of the isometric GTA being dead. But the DS market too was predominantly quite young, and most of those kinds of games did poorly on the system. A shame too. Chinatown Wars is my favourite GTA since GTA 2.

Out of curiosity what makes isometric GTA games more appealing to you?

 

[shadyspace]

But buyouts are so much more megaton.

 

[Sadist]

The whole GTA V talk is kind of boring to me tbh. Yeah, I understand it's important in the grand scheme of things but all these third party talks seem te revolve around GTA. You, know I'd more worried if Wii U missed out on stuff like MoH Warfighter, Dead Space 3, Overstrike and other games like that. Those are EA titles, but are just examples.

 

[Deguello]

I do think they need to help entice third parties to shed that label, but I don't really view it as something that needs to be absolutely priority. I believe a lot of what Nintendo needs to gain in the third party department would be a natural progression from success in other areas, notably having a market that wants these games in the first place. Pubs are dumb, pubs are smart, but if they feel money can be made from their big games on Nintendo platforms, they will bring them across.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the other part of the problem of Nintendo just focusing on themselves with their marketing and development dollars. IF Nintendo gets too successful with their new IPs, it will be used as a sword against them because another of the most common criticisms levied against Nintendo hardware is that only Nintendo software sells on it. Nintendo spending big on first party development only ensures that their games will be the best on the platform.

It's a Moebius Strip sometimes, but apparently that's a problem they need to fix as well. It could be a time to pen an editorial akin to "A Modest Proposal" that posits an absurd solution to this like Nintendo buying up third party games and then making bad games on purpose to make those third party games look better.

 

[Somnia]

Iwata recently commented on their shift away from purchasing studios due to talent leakage. After they bought Retro, for example, a lot of talented staff ditched the studio. He said they've now moved toward partnerships with proven studios instead of buyouts, which seems to offer better results.

edit: Dang it, EatChildren!!

Sounds like what Microsoft does, which could be a really good thing.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I would like to respectfully ask:

how did this thread reach 860 posts, 17 pages in a single day? are you people that hyped?

I thought the world hardly knew anything about the changes made to the WiiU, never had thought there was for so much discussion.

Rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have done this, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

 

[nordique]

That too is important to message: exclusivity doesn't guarantee waves of sales. GTA is massive, but sticking it on once console, a new one at that, is basically saying "this game has a three figure price tag".

That's why Rockstar would have such a high price too. These games cost so much money to make they're not going to be interested in risking an exclusive launch on a new console, not without Nintendo covering potential losses up front. They need these games to launch on multiple systems right out the gate.



Chinatown Wars selling badly is more evident of the isometric GTA being dead. But the DS market too was predominantly quite young, and most of those kinds of games did poorly on the system. A shame too. Chinatown Wars is my favourite GTA since GTA 2.

I still don't buy the "DS market being too young hence GTA CW didn't sell loads" argument.

I think the DS market was quite varied overall, with a huge amount of adult gamers too.

I just believe, legitimately, that the concept of GTA on the DS was simply not enticing by-and-large to the mass market.

"Why would I get GTA on my DS when it doesn't look like the GTA I am used to?", for instance. GTA3 is really when the mass market become associated with that series. It was popular before, but not hugely popular.

CW didn't sell well on any device it was released, relative to the LCS/VCS games on PSP or even GTA3 anniversary edition on iOS

 

[Izick]

All this isometric talk reminds me, is Retro City Rampage slated for Wiiware? It would be just another nice game to fill out a sizzle real at E3 for Wii U games.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Nintendo would likely have to cough up 200m at a minimum to secure GTA5 as an exclusive. I'm basing this on the rumored price tag (100m) that Rockstar was asking Sony and MS for exclusivity on GTA4. That went on to become the best selling game in the series, so Rockstar would definitely want a lot more for 5.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

I don't know. If it's labeled GTA V, and not GTA: Whatever? I think you underestimate the power of that franchise and its numerous fans. It's up there with CoD in terms of loyalty.

People thought that PS360 sales were going to go nuts when GTA IV launched. From what I recall, it didn't happen.

 

[Jumpman23]

Chinatown Wars selling badly is more evident of the isometric GTA being dead. But the DS market too was predominantly quite young, and most of those kinds of games did poorly on the system. A shame too. Chinatown Wars is my favourite GTA since GTA 2.

Thoroughly enjoyed it myself, isometric view and all. Not my favorite in the series but up there.

GTA + Nintendo...my thinking is Nintendo out of the gate wants to come off as a less kiddy company and more of an overall entertainment company with something for everyone. I think starting with games like GTA is a good move to attract an older demo graph but it will take far more than a single game to bring the adult masses back to Nintendo. Here is hoping they too offer up some adult level gaming of their own. Additionally, they need 3rd party heavy hitters day and date with the other consoles. And by that I mean, not facsimiles but versions that are a feature parity of the others with some additional WiiU exclusive additions. Games like Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, etc.

 

[EatChildren]

Out of curiosity what makes isometric GTA games more appealing to you?

The arcadey gameplay. After GTA 2, the series has grown more and more serious. The themes, the gameplay, the scenarios, the presentation: everything is more serious. Way-back-when in the days of GTA/GTA2, the series played more like a wild, arcade sandbox game.

Chinatown Wars reminded me why I love that kind of gameplay for this particular series. I like my character being a tiny little avatar on the screen. I like moving between vehicles quicker, and gunplay limited to switching between targets. I feel this makes for a faster player, arcade style game environment and that's what I love the most.

Realistic, serious GTA just isn't for me. And even though GTA 3 was great, I'm not very fond of full 3D third person GTA in general. It doesn't 'click' with me like isometric GTA does.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

People thought that PS360 sales were going to go nuts when GTA IV launched. From what I recall, it didn't happen.

Yep, they sold less than the previous month.

 

[Neuromancer]

The arcadey gameplay. After GTA 2, the series has grown more and more serious. The themes, the gameplay, the scenarios, the presentation: everything is more serious. Way-back-when in the days of GTA/GTA2, the series played more like a wild, arcade sandbox game.

Chinatown Wars reminded me why I love that kind of gameplay for this particular series. I like my character being a tiny little avatar on the screen. I like moving between vehicles quicker, and gunplay limited to switching between targets. I feel this makes for a faster player, arcade style game environment and that's what I love the most.

Realistic, serious GTA just isn't for me. And even though GTA 3 was great, I'm not very fond of full 3D third person GTA in general. It doesn't 'click' with me like isometric GTA does.

Best part of GTA3 was running around with that top down view. I don't know why but it made the mayhem and destruction so much funnier. They never should have taken out that option.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Out of curiosity what makes isometric GTA games more appealing to you?

I can't speak for EC, but one of the things about top-down games is that you can do things far faster than on games with 3D interfaces. Just go back to LttP and go from one end of a town to another, then do the same in TP. It takes ages to do in the latter comparatively, even though there are often just as many or more places to visit in the former. This sort of thing is one potential fun killer.

Obviously, it doesn't always matter, but I can see how it can make people prefer less 3D games.

 

[mrwilt]

Would something like this be doable with the WiiU pad?

http://youtu.be/z6GJy19nWgQ

 

[qq more]

Because of goddamn trekkies. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ╯(°□° &#9583

 

[Father_Brain]

People thought that PS360 sales were going to go nuts when GTA IV launched. From what I recall, it didn't happen.

Well, the GTA audience already had many, many reasons to own a PS3 or 360 at that point. That wouldn't necessarily be the case for Wii U, particularly if GTAV launches in the first six months of its lifespan.

 

[Deguello]

I still don't buy the "DS market being too young hence GTA CW didn't sell loads" argument.

I think the DS market was quite varied overall, with a huge amount of adult gamers too.

I just believe, legitimately, that the concept of GTA on the DS was simply not enticing by-and-large to the mass market.

"Why would I get GTA on my DS when it doesn't look like the GTA I am used to?", for instance. GTA3 is really when the mass market become associated with that series. It was popular before, but not hugely popular.

CW didn't sell well on any device it was released, relative to the LCS/VCS games on PSP or even GTA3 anniversary edition on iOS

I have to agree. Saying the DS skewed "young" sort of flies in the face when all those elderly and middle-aged people were training brains on it. Remember, kiddy/mature got thrown out the window when grannies started bowling and playing DS games. Then it became casual/hardcore.

 

[ColdBlooder]

The arcadey gameplay. After GTA 2, the series has grown more and more serious. The themes, the gameplay, the scenarios, the presentation: everything is more serious. Way-back-when in the days of GTA/GTA2, the series played more like a wild, arcade sandbox game.

Chinatown Wars reminded me why I love that kind of gameplay for this particular series. I like my character being a tiny little avatar on the screen. I like moving between vehicles quicker, and gunplay limited to switching between targets. I feel this makes for a faster player, arcade style game environment and that's what I love the most.

Realistic, serious GTA just isn't for me. And even though GTA 3 was great, I'm not very fond of full 3D third person GTA in general. It doesn't 'click' with me like isometric GTA does.

Seems like today is "recommend Saints Row" day! So if you want it wild... Saints Row is the way to go I highly recommend it

 

[GameplayWhore]

Would something like this be doable with the WiiU pad?

http://youtu.be/z6GJy19nWgQ

It has no back-facing camera. That's the only killer for what is shown here, I think.

edit: That's if it's showing an Augmented Reality view and not a totally virtual view. I can't tell from the tiny screen. If it's the latter, then Nintendo has already shown this capability with an awkward-looking gun shell.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Would something like this be doable with the WiiU pad?

http://youtu.be/z6GJy19nWgQ

yes and they showed it in killer freaks. when the zapper+ peripheral is unveiled in 2 weeks we will see more of this type of game mechanic being shown. Though it will be using gyro controls.

 

[lednerg]

Nintendo should get GTA V and games like it by providing a platform and audience that Rockstar, etc won't be able to ignore. They should make them want to put the game on the console on their own. Also, as far as I know, the reason no Nintendo home console has had a GTA game before has been because of hardware issues - the lack of space on GC discs, and the Wii's lack of programmable shaders. (Not that I know much)

 

[brochiller]

The arcadey gameplay. After GTA 2, the series has grown more and more serious. The themes, the gameplay, the scenarios, the presentation: everything is more serious. Way-back-when in the days of GTA/GTA2, the series played more like a wild, arcade sandbox game.

Chinatown Wars reminded me why I love that kind of gameplay for this particular series. I like my character being a tiny little avatar on the screen. I like moving between vehicles quicker, and gunplay limited to switching between targets. I feel this makes for a faster player, arcade style game environment and that's what I love the most.

Realistic, serious GTA just isn't for me. And even though GTA 3 was great, I'm not very fond of full 3D third person GTA in general. It doesn't 'click' with me like isometric GTA does.

The whole serious thing is starting to wear on me as well. I can't speak for the non-3D games, but my favorite GTA is Vice City because of it's lighthearted setting and ridiculous characters.

I can't speak for EC, but one of the things about top-down games is that you can do things far faster than on games with 3D interfaces. Just go back to LttP and go from one end of a town to another, then do the same in TP. It takes ages to do in the latter comparatively, even though there are often just as many or more places to visit in the former. This sort of thing is one potential fun killer.

Obviously, it doesn't always matter, but I can see how it can make people prefer less 3D games.

I never thought about these differences, I guess it does make a lot of sense though. You spend more time in top-down games actually doing things that are relevant and not just moving from place to place.

I may have to pick up Chinatown wars as I've never played it.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Would something like this be doable with the WiiU pad?

http://youtu.be/z6GJy19nWgQ

Yes, this has been demonstrated last E3 (Only in trailerform though). See here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpeIIOSU014

(Around 1:55)

 

[Izick]

Well, the GTA audience already had many, many reasons to own a PS3 or 360 at that point. That wouldn't necessarily be the case for Wii U, particularly if GTAV launches in the first six months of its lifespan.

Exactly.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

It has no back-facing camera. That's the only killer for what is shown here, I think.

edit: That's if it's showing an Augmented Reality view and not a totally virtual view. I can't tell from the tiny screen. If it's the latter, then Nintendo has already shown this capability with an awkward-looking gun shell.

I played many shooting games using the shell so i dont think it would feel awkward. Imagine colonial marines with that peripheral.

 

[jwj442]

I wonder what Nintendo has planned for the Excite ____ series? I think Excite Truck and Excite Bots are two of the more underrated Wii games (how is the Wiiware Excitebike btw? Haven't played it).

What they really need to do to sell the series is improve the presentation and give it a good soundtrack. At first glance, Truck looks and sounds like generic monster truck shovelware, and Bots looks like generic mascot racer shovelware. Of course that's not true, but I can't blame someone for having that first impression.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Yes, this has been demonstrated last E3 (Only in trailerform though). See here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpeIIOSU014

(Around 1:55)

Ah, yes, that's the "Apartment Creeper spying game" I referenced in the OP. I secretly believe that half of N-GAF would love to clandestinely stalk Miyamoto & friends with a telescope while they walk through an apartment complex.

To expand the matter, there's nothing stopping the guntroller shown there from being rotated completely away from the TV, as the magnetometer and gyrometer can give pretty accurate attitude measurements.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Silicon Knights win its case against Epic about their Unreal Engine 3 dissatisfaction but are only entitled to $1 in damages

Relevant?

 

[lordmrw]

People thought that PS360 sales were going to go nuts when GTA IV launched. From what I recall, it didn't happen.

Not only did both systems sell less than the previous month but the Wii broke the April sales record as well. I think that was as clear a sign as any that the war was over to many who thought for sure the tide would turn.

 

[lednerg]

It has no back-facing camera. That's the only killer for what is shown here, I think.

edit: That's if it's showing an Augmented Reality view and not a totally virtual view. I can't tell from the tiny screen. If it's the latter, then Nintendo has already shown this capability with an awkward-looking gun shell.

It's just using a Gyration mouse, which the DRC can emulate no problem. I've even written scripts to let you use a Wii MotionPlus to do the same thing on a PC. The addition of a magnetometer in the DRC makes it even more reliable.

 

[brochiller]

I was thinking about embarrassing E3 moments on stage today and a few came to mind such as the whole Skyward Sword demo debacle last year and of course this from the Microsoft conference.

So what do you guys think Nintendo could screw up this year on stage, presentation wise?

 

[DragonKnight]

I was thinking about embarrassing E3 moments on stage today and a few came to mind such as the whole Skyward Sword demo debacle last year and of course this from the Microsoft conference.

So what do you guys think Nintendo could screw up this year on stage, presentation wise?

Pretty much everything. See there E3 2008 presser.

 

[shadyspace]

I'm glad we're not getting launch line-up, price and launch date at E3. Where would this community be without things to go speculate about?!

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'm glad we're not getting launch line-up, price and launch date at E3. Where would this community be without things to go speculate about?!

More importantly, it means they'll stay away from shit that can be announced in a press release and focus on showing footage and shit.