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Remi ‏@Remij010

@yosp Hey, have a quick question. A friend says that WiiU will be more powerful than PS4...yes PS4. He really said that. What is your take?

@yosp

@Remij010 Let him dream.

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LOL that guy has a very stupid friend. yosp is the man.

Is WiiU even stronger then the PS3?

 

[systemfehler]

Sony using beer as electrolyte for their capacitors. Drunken factory workers increase by 100% and the PS4 will launch 2014.

 

[KageMaru]

Depends on the density of the beer, and its type.
Sometimes you can only make a certain lager based on the availability of the brew kettles.

Shoot. I was hoping you could stack the kegs.

lol nice.

Is WiiU even stronger then the PS3?

Yes by a decent amount.

 

[sTeLioSco]

Remi ‏@Remij010

@yosp Hey, have a quick question. A friend says that WiiU will be more powerful than PS4...yes PS4. He really said that. What is your take?

@yosp

@Remij010 Let him dream.

-----------

LOL that guy has a very stupid friend. yosp is the man.

Is WiiU even stronger then the PS3?

wait yosp said there is a ps4....?

 

[AgentChris]

Yoshida is too awesome.

 

[Shikoro]

wait yosp said there is a ps4....?

Here's the tweet to better represent what was said.
https://twitter.com/yosp/status/212393696979730432

 

[gofreak]

Man, next-gen really has unofficially started when even execs are being so loose-lipped about it. There's been, what, 2...3..4 (?) Sony execs who've alluded to it or even directly referenced it since E3?

 

[mckmas8808]

Man, next-gen really has unofficially started when even execs are being so loose-lipped about it. There's been, what, 2...3..4 (?) Sony execs who've alluded to it or even directly referenced it since E3?

Yeah. You can tell they are ready to just jump to next-gen, but the time just isn't quite there yet.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Wow, an emotional explosion because I assumed a person that didn't know about the cell vision and was a blogger didn't own a PS3. I'm sorry if it was taken the wrong way.

DieH@rd, it's "program execution can be easily offloaded to other processing resources available in servers, PCs and mobile devices." In other words, a Handheld can use the CPU-GPU in your home desktop computer. This could be a reason for the first Foundation members being chipmakers for Handhelds.

The HSA spec does also support HSA which is what you keyed on. While true I wasn't making that point.

The Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) Foundation will provide an open hardware interface specification under which program execution can be easily offloaded to other processing resources available in servers, PCs and mobile devices. The new specification will lead to applications that are portable across architectures, while also enabling workloads to be broken up between CPUs and graphics processors for faster and more power efficient computing.

My speculation is that Sony will also support this as it echos the Sony 2011 Cell vision patent. In this I can be wrong. The rest is obvious if you read about AMD HSA; it's more than an efficient Fusion of GPU and CPU.

I think this is rather big.

 

[Massa]

Man, next-gen really has unofficially started when even execs are being so loose-lipped about it. There's been, what, 2...3..4 (?) Sony execs who've alluded to it or even directly referenced it since E3?

This is just acknowledging that there will be a successor to the PS3. Miyamoto just did the same to the 3DS, it's no big deal.

 

[szaromir]

Yoshida is too awesome.

His lack of neck is disturbing.

 

[plainr_]

Here's the tweet to better represent what was said.
https://twitter.com/yosp/status/212393696979730432

lol. awesome.

EDIT: Snipped!

 

[gofreak]

You know what my bad I always thought Tahiti was more Compute looking seeing as it got beat out by the smaller 680 and was of the opinion AMD must have done a split a la Nvidia with the 560 and 580.

One giant APU you say, interesting, anything above 320 mm^2 I think is off the table. In addition with the CPU and GPU occupying relatively even portions of the chip would you not run into a problem of having to disable 1 core or entire module and 1 bank of compute units in order to keep yeilds up?

What I am saying is on a traditional CPU the vast majority of area is usually cache so if we have a defect we disable a section of cache or a number of cores and sell at a lower price. On a GPU the greatest area is taken up by compute units and you act accordingly. On this APU the majority of area is not taken up by a single unit so in order to keep yields up will you not end up having to disable both a core and a bank of compute units thus limiting your performance - especially on a chip which is going to weigh in at around 300 mm^2.

It could prove difficult to meet their target on one die...I would guess that discrete dies for the CPU and GPU is still an option if things don't go to plan. But I think it'll be one or the other. I don't think we'll see an APU + GPU.

Just my guesses though. Has anyone worked out how big the die for this kind of chip would be? Maybe even if yields were challenging initially, it might still be worth it because of knock-on savings elsewhere.

 

[specialguy]

It could prove difficult to meet their target on one die...I would guess that discrete dies for the CPU and GPU is still an option if things don't go to plan. But I think it'll be one or the other. I don't think we'll see an APU + GPU.

Just my guesses though. Has anyone worked out how big the die for this kind of chip would be? Maybe even if yields were challenging initially, it might still be worth it because of knock-on savings elsewhere.

well since we dont know the CPU who knows.

Pitcairn is pretty small like 210mm IIRC

Bulldozer is big, 315mm

For reference RSX was 240mm and Cell 230mm according to wiki at launch.

But, I'm guessing they can cut bulldozer down a lot by slicing cache, plus it's only 4 cores in PS4 I thought (8 in desktop Bulldozer)?, and I dont really know what Jaguar cores are, could be small. If this is supposed to all be on 22nm too? Even way smaller.

Wild guesstimate would be 400mm-ish on 28nm.

 

[Represent.]

lol. awesome.

EDIT: Snipped!

lmao, this is the thread it was from

http://systemwars.com/forums/index....weaker-than-wiiu-showcases-move2/page__st__30

 

[AstroNut325]

lmao, this is the thread it was from

http://systemwars.com/forums/index....weaker-than-wiiu-showcases-move2/page__st__30

There's a site called System Wars????? Really?????

 

[Karak]

There's a site called System Wars????? Really?????

Dude there is a site called Gapewars...System Wars seems tame and logical.

 

[Biggzy]

lol. awesome.

EDIT: Snipped!

Shit just got real.

 

[iamvin22]

yosp is so cool. i remember having a convo with him on what vodkas to drink over twitter.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

lol. awesome.

EDIT: Snipped!

LOL, <3 yoshida

 

[coldfoot]

Dude there is a site called Gapewars...System Wars seems tame and logical.

I am too scared to ask what that is...

 

[Raistlin]

Got any Labatt Blue?

Wait - people actually like Labatt?

 

[Self_Destructive]

lol. awesome.

EDIT: Snipped!

Haha, yea I was surprised when he responded, and quite quickly might I add.

Can always count on Yoshida to rape the haters

 

[Chuck Norris]

There's a site called System Wars????? Really?????

Its.... beautiful

 

[Karak]

I am too scared to ask what that is...

Fearing it is a just and noble reaction hahahahaha

 

[joshwaan]

AMD 2013 APUs To Include ARM Cortex-A5 Processor For TrustZone Capabilities

Guess this can take on the security job that one of the Cell's SPEs was used for in the PS3 now that PS4 will not have a Cell processor.

Thanks for posting this onQ123 very interesting read

Shoot. I was hoping you could stack the kegs.

ROFL well played hehe

lol. awesome.
EDIT: Snipped!

LOL that's gold

 

[onQ123]

could Ray-Tracing be the main reason that Sony will not let go of the faster ram for more ram?

I think they have something mapped out the reason they are hung up on having GDDR5

 

[thuway]

could Ray-Tracing be the main reason that Sony will not let go of the faster ram for more ram?

I think they have something mapped out the reason they are hung up on having GDDR5

There is no possible way Sony has ray tracing on the cards. The original fermi GTX 480 was tracing at ONE frame per second.

 

[TAJ]

could Ray-Tracing be the main reason that Sony will not let go of the faster ram for more ram?

I think they have something mapped out the reason they are hung up on having GDDR5

Ray tracing is an incredible waste of resources. Why try to simulate with a simple scene what you can fake with a huge scene?

 

[onQ123]

There is no possible way Sony has ray tracing on the cards. The original fermi GTX 480 was tracing at ONE frame per second.

was that fermi GTX 480 on the same chip as the CPU with them both using GDDR5 with maybe another co-processor on the APU?

 

[Kagari]

lol, Yoshida. Not as good as the Wario64 troll but still great.

 

[Ashes]

could Ray-Tracing be the main reason that Sony will not let go of the faster ram for more ram?

I think they have something mapped out the reason they are hung up on having GDDR5

no.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

That's Jeff for you. He'll spend hours looking through Sony patents and anything he finds=FACT! even though he doesn't understand that these companies make plenty of patents and many don't see the light of day.

Oh come on, he reads and does his stuff. I don't think anyone credits him with some kind of insider knowledge. Everything he's brought up is in docs all over the place. He merely bring the info to the table. Whether or not it's going to facilitate into something on a future Sony platform is not the point. Go easy on the guy. All that info gathering is very admirable.

 

[FLEABttn]

All that info gathering is very admirable.

I used to think that too about myself until that restraining order.

 

[onQ123]

no.

do you know this or are you just going by what has been done in the past?


because there has been talk of a FPGA & extra DSPs being part of the PS4

( 'He describes the architecture in broad terms: "You are talking about powerful CPU and GPU with extra DSP and programmable logic."' (Alternative quote in another article: ' “We are looking at an architecture where the bulk of processing will still sit on the main board, with CPU and graphics added to by more digital signal processing and some configurable logic.”) )



which happen to also be parts that other people have used to create Ray-Tracing hardware.


("(2002) The computer graphics laboratory at Saarland University headed by Dr. -Ing Slusallek has produced prototype ray tracing hardware including the FPGA based fixed function data driven SaarCOR (Saarbrücken’s Coherence Optimized Ray Tracer) chip[9][10][11] and a more advanced programmable (2005) processor, the Ray Processing Unit (RPU)[12]
(1996) Researchers at Princeton university proposed using DSPs to build a hardware unit for ray tracing acceleration, named "TigerSHARK"[13]" )

 

[ThisWreckage]

So is Sony going to utilize the 150 GB Blu Ray discs for the PS4?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I used to think that too about myself until that restraining order.

I have a doctor I know who can help that!

 

[Ashes]

do you know this or are you just going by what has been done in the past?


because there has been talk of a FPGA & extra DSPs being part of the PS4

( 'He describes the architecture in broad terms: "You are talking about powerful CPU and GPU with extra DSP and programmable logic."' (Alternative quote in another article: ' &#8220;We are looking at an architecture where the bulk of processing will still sit on the main board, with CPU and graphics added to by more digital signal processing and some configurable logic.&#8221 )



which happen to also be parts that other people have used to create Ray-Tracing hardware.


("(2002) The computer graphics laboratory at Saarland University headed by Dr. -Ing Slusallek has produced prototype ray tracing hardware including the FPGA based fixed function data driven SaarCOR (Saarbrücken&#8217;s Coherence Optimized Ray Tracer) chip[9][10][11] and a more advanced programmable (2005) processor, the Ray Processing Unit (RPU)[12]
(1996) Researchers at Princeton university proposed using DSPs to build a hardware unit for ray tracing acceleration, named "TigerSHARK"[13]" )

Legitimate Ray tracing software would require an order of magnitude processing power not feasible on next gen hardware. Not even on Next gen2.

I'll pay £10 to Child's play charity, if ray tracing makes it into a console game next gen. Digital or Retail release.

With a probable 2013 release date, let's say, 13+7, until 14 June 2020.

 

[i-Lo]

The question remains, how much of a gap will PS4 open over PS3 in terms of visual fidelity.

Can the next gen first party titles from GG end up looking like THIS in real time? That trailer looks to use up res'd in engine assets with better lighting and AA.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

The question remains, how much of a gap will PS4 open over PS3 in terms of visual fidelity.

Can the next gen first party titles from GG end up looking like THIS in real time? That trailer looks to use up res'd in engine assets with better lighting and AA.

Probably. Sony dev tech is something else so I wouldn't put it pass them.

Remember this commerical for Killzone 2?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk3SOI9l2kY

You could actually download the realtime version of the trailer on PSN.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Man, next-gen really has unofficially started when even execs are being so loose-lipped about it. There's been, what, 2...3..4 (?) Sony execs who've alluded to it or even directly referenced it since E3?

I was actually shocked when Rohde said PS4 games are in development. I remember last year everyone was being so secretive, and used the standard "We don't comment on rumours or speculation". I guess we can realistically expect them to reveal it in 2013. Hopefully sooner.

So is Sony going to utilize the 150 GB Blu Ray discs for the PS4?

Unnecessary, it will be 50GB with higher read speeds. I hope it is 8x, but it probably would be lesser than that.

 

[Death Dealer]

Unnecessary, it will be 50GB with higher read speeds. I hope it is 8x, but it probably would be lesser than that.

It might be unnecessary for gaming use, but it wouldn't shock me if PS4 can read triple layer (100GB) BDs.

I think one of the leaked spec sheets said 6x read speed, but I don't remember for sure.

 

[CLEEK]

Doesn't the BD in the PS3 Slim read multi-layered Blu-Rays? I'm sure I read (probably in the thread...) that the only thing preventing Sony utilising this is that the PS3 Fat only supports single layed discs.

 

[Death Dealer]

the PS3 Fat only supports single layed discs.

I don't think that's correct.

Haven't a couple PS3 games shipped on dual layer discs ?

 

[NBtoaster]

I don't think that's correct.

Haven't a couple PS3 games shipped on dual layer discs ?

Yes, such as FF13.

 

[CLEEK]

I don't think that's correct.

That's highly likely! I was just passing on second hand info read on some forum somewhere.

 

[Auto_aim1]

It might be unnecessary for gaming use, but it wouldn't shock me if PS4 can read triple layer (100GB) BDs.

I think one of the leaked spec sheets said 6x read speed, but I don't remember for sure.

It's fair to expect some reasonable improvement in that area. Regarding read speed, I'm totally fine with 6x!

Doesn't the BD in the PS3 Slim read multi-layered Blu-Rays? I'm sure I read (probably in the thread...) that the only thing preventing Sony utilising this is that the PS3 Fat only supports single layed discs.

PS3 Slim cannot read multi-layered discs. The drive in both models are quite similar, only the internals are frequently changed with each revision. For example, the Sept 2008 revision had a different disc loader.

 

[Razgreez]

PS3 Slim cannot read multi-layered discs. The drive in both models are quite similar, only the internals are frequently changed with each revision. For example, the Sept 2008 revision had a different disc loader.

Where do gaffers get such misinformation from? Seriously... There are a ridiculous amount of PS3 games all over the 25GB single layer limit and they can be played on all PS3s

 

[Auto_aim1]

Where do gaffers get such misinformation from? Seriously... There are a ridiculous amount of PS3 games all over the 25GB single layer limit and they can be played on all PS3s

Dual-layer and multi-layer are different things.

 

[Razgreez]

Ah so two is not a multiple of one.

I really shouldn't be responding to such an illogical statement