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[gofreak]

I was trying to avoid Wii U discussion in this thread, but if that rumor of Wii U having a GPGPU is true then it does belong as that makes Wii U a PS4/Xbox 3-lite instead of a souped up Xbox 360.

Surely it depends, as always, on the performance gap and what performance envelope devs end up targeting for their games.

Ticking a feature box won't level things. If that was the case, to take it to an extreme, Vita would be a 'PS4/Xbox 3-lite' by virtue of GPGPU capability.

Relative performance is what will bring the consoles within the same class, or not, not architectures.

 

[KageMaru]

I used to read stuff on B3D allot and sometimes post but just like every where else they got there crazy people .
Also half of the time they are wrong about stuff just like every where else.

If MS does go with 8GB of ram and most of it DDR3 and Sony goes with 4GB of ram and it DDR5 it going to make thing very interesting.
I just hope Sony taking with there first party devs about the spec since they have some of the best in the world.

Oh I know they have their crazies and people there are wrong as well. However it's not hard to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who's full of it.

Besides I was only joking.

 

[bgassassin]

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

It would definitely explain things pointing to Nintendo's possible emphasis on lighting in Wii U's hardware.

Surely it depends, as always, on the performance gap and what performance envelope devs end up targeting for their games.

Ticking a feature box won't level things. If that was the case, to take it to an extreme, Vita would be a 'PS4/Xbox 3-lite' by virtue of GPGPU capability.

Relative performance is what will bring the consoles within the same class, or not, not architectures.

Yes, that is obviously true. However from a raw power viewpoint Wii U would not be comparable to Vita in this case.

That said I've never claimed Wii U to be on par with PS4 or Xbox 3 anyway. But considering what Wii U is, "checking that box" will go a long way.

 

[jeff_rigby]

if you read the thread someone actually brought up the thought of using a APU in the new consoles.

Congrats, I didn't understand Stephen Cobbert when he brought up ARM-Nvidia APUs earlier either. You need to provide cites and sometimes you can be too early like I am (webkit and XMB rewrite) for good cites to be available.

Too bad you were banned when I started my posts as we could have between the two of us having a dialog, kept a thread on topic. I had to do allot of catchup as I seem to be doing most of the time recently.

Honestly, you are one of the posters I always read.

 

[onQ123]

Surely it depends, as always, on the performance gap and what performance envelope devs end up targeting for their games.

Ticking a feature box won't level things. If that was the case, to take it to an extreme, Vita would be a 'PS4/Xbox 3-lite' by virtue of GPGPU capability.

Relative performance is what will bring the consoles within the same class, or not, not architectures.

actually it pretty much is if you take out the fact that it needs to be portable & clock the CPU & GPU all the way up , that would place it above the PS3 & Xbox 360 for the most part.

 

[Horse Armour]

actually it pretty much is if you take out the fact that it needs to be portable & clock the CPU & GPU all the way up , that would place it above the PS3 & Xbox 360 for the most part.

Unless you overclock it to like 5GHZ, the Vita will never overtake the PS3 and 360.

 

[Sickboy007]

Buying a 1080p TV for CONSOLE GAMING only purposes this generation was all of about worthless.

fixed

 

[z0m3le]

How would you describe target specs given no-one has seen the new memory, use the fastest available memory at the time? Custom or semi-custom memory with a GDDR5 interface does not make sense!

As to drawbacks, it's faster, requires less power and produces less heat. Manufacturing memory with TSVs and stacking like on like has been done for 4 years so it's not new.

As to the SOC and MCM that both games consoles will be using, that's not a debatable point but is also being overlooked in BY3D for the most part. It's process optimized building blocks with differing die size and processes that are TSV connected to a SOC substrate with overflow being assembled by TSMC using TSVs and 2.5D transposer (MCM).

IBM and AMD have been working together on this since 2008. Micron has been working on the memory solutions to feed HSA HPC SOCs.

2013 is the target date a number of industries have been working toward and Game console volumes are kick starting the technology and making it economical.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself and I'm sure some of you are getting tired of reading my posts. I've provided the cites and created a thread which has a summary of what makes a next generation game console possible, I suggest you read through the cites on the first page.

Your comment about 3D transistors for instance, which won't happen till 14nm, is an example of your misunderstanding of the technology. I've made similar gaffs on Neogaf <grin>.

Edit: For example, I insisted Gstreamer was in the PS3 since Firmware 3.0 incorrectly and Massa (below) corrected me (LGPL) and forced me to rethink my position. Turns out My first guess on BY3D which was Adobe open source AVM+ was correct which I dismissed later as SNAP and GTKwebkit indicated Gstreamer was the future which may still be true but I couldn't believe Sony would invest in AVM+ and then rewrite/replace most of the XMB routines later this year. Should have known as Netflix had to port a complete QTWebkit plus gstreamer to the PS3. I also insisted the XMB would be rewritten to support CairoSVG when it's already OpenVG SVG as I didn't know about EGL which provides support for OpenVG + OpenGLES2 and Cairo can be edited to use OpenVG for the 2D parts of Cairo and use OpenGLES2 for the 3D parts of CairoGL= Cairo-eGL

I'm really surprised that given AMD has admitted that their process optimized building blocks include "(CPU, Cache, DRAM, GPU, analog, SSD)" and the popularity of SSD for very fast loading and solid state hard disks as well as DRAM inside a SOC that no-one is speculating on this. The rumors of 16 gig Flash = SSD sorta supports this.

I was a bit outdated on 3D transistors: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Ar...ing-till-20nm-to-introduce-3d-transistors.htm the plan was 20nm, but they have changed it: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/...y_One_Version_of_20nm_Process_Technology.html

http://newsroom.intel.com/community...reinvents-transistors-using-new-3-d-structure
as for my complaint about 3D transistors, I am talking about Intel's 37% increased performance (The 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate transistors provide up to 37 percent performance increase at low voltage versus Intel's 32nm planar transistors. This incredible gain means) that everyone expected to see from Ivy bridge, and maybe their thermal decisions had a lot to do with why we didn't see that, but I think it's pretty plain to see that Sony might not have the resources to put out the sort of box you are talking about, I'm sure later this year we will hear more about PS4, if not directly from Sony, a reliable rumor will pop up.

All I do know is that these target specs were accurate at one point, but has likely changed thanks to unexpected losses at Sony as well as a new Sony president betting big on Sony, they also closed their TV branch after these initial target specs and laid off 10k employees, I'm not saying they are going for a cheaper console, their betting big could in fact mean the opposite. But your idea of a next generation console needing to basically be cutting edge technology, including in the ram department, is just not really taking into account the specs we see here, they do in fact point to a larger jump in memory from the xbox from last gen thanks to resolution not changing and what role that has on memory sizes.

I do find the technology you are talking about interesting, but it doesn't mean that it will be inside this box for various reasons. Continue to speculation, just wanted to point out just how much more memory 2GBs is than 512MBs in a generation shift targeting the same resolution.

 

[onQ123]

Congrats, I didn't understand Stephen Cobbert when he brought up ARM-Nvidia APUs earlier either. You need to provide cites and sometimes you can be too early like I am (webkit and XMB rewrite) for good cites to be available.

Too bad you were banned when I started my posts as we could have between the two of us having a dialog, kept a thread on topic. I had to do allot of catchup as I seem to be doing most of the time recently.

Honestly, you are one of the posters I always read.

it's mostly random thoughts on my part so I don't really have cites to backup my thoughts.


like my thought that Xbox Next will be pretty much a mini Windows 8 box, right now there is nothing to back it up it's just a thought.

 

[coldfoot]

I also have no idea how effective this RAM will actually be in games. With a 256 bus it can get around 97 GB/s of bandwidth max I believe. Vs like 200 GB/s for the leaked Orbis specs.

You're mistaken. DDR3-2133 (fastest available, just started mass production) has a theoretical bandwidth of 17GB/s for 64-bit. For 256-bit, that'd be 68GB/s theoretical and <60 in the real world.

 

[onQ123]

Unless you overclock it to like 5GHZ, the Vita will never overtake the PS3 and 360.

I think all 4 of Vita's CPU cores clocked at 2GHz & all 4 of it's GPU cores clocked at 400MHz pushing out to it's 960 x 544 would be above PS3 & Xbox 360.


the CPU would be behind but the GPU would be above the PS3 & Xbox 360.

 

[joshwaan]

I think all 4 of Vita's CPU cores clocked at 2GHz & all 4 of it's GPU cores clocked at 400MHz pushing out to it's 960 x 544 would be above PS3 & Xbox 360.


the CPU would be behind but the GPU would be above the PS3 & Xbox 360.

What is the Vita clocked at default atm?

Will we see Sony do what they did with PSP 1000 and 2000 models?

 

[StevieP]

I think all 4 of Vita's CPU cores clocked at 2GHz & all 4 of it's GPU cores clocked at 400MHz pushing out to it's 960 x 544 would be above PS3 & Xbox 360.


the CPU would be behind but the GPU would be above the PS3 & Xbox 360.

This doesn't make sense for the same reason that people claiming that iPads do or will soon surpass PS360. Physics. PowerVR is *very* good at what they do, but they do not operate in the same power envelopes and 2-3w chips are constrained by physics.

Wow so one would expect about 6GB in the console, is it always the case Dev's get double the ram and retail units ship with half or would I be off with that analogy?

Most of the time you'd be correct. In this case you'd be off.

I just get the feeling Microsoft is going to slowly move away from the Core gamer console.

They are and always have been looking to dominate the living room in general, as "the box everyone turns on with the TV" - gamers were just their foot in the door. The pack-ins in the box will reflect that.

 

[systemfehler]

Most of the time you'd be correct. In this case you'd be off.
.

So what is the magic number?

 

[synchronicity]

Liverpool? That can't be good.

You got that right!!!!

 

[jmdajr]

This is a silly comparison. You'll save much more than 500$ in the long run just from the prices of games and accessories by buying the 100$ PC.

The comparison is not silly at all. The numbers are different for everybody. And I'm strictly questioning the capabilities of the hardware.
A 500 dollar PS4 will be better than a 500 PC in 2014 (strictly for game performance). It might possibly equal a 1000 dollar computer for a short period of time.
It will never compare to people with 500 dollar graphics cards running in Quad SLi mode. But how many people fork over the money for that?
Personally I would never spend more than 200 bucks on a graphics card. Although I did fuck up once buying one of those AllInWonder cards for 400 bucks.
Didn't exactly work out as planned.

 

[Razgreez]

That page is really old, like 3-4 years old.

The age of the webpage means it doesn't exist?

 

[Death Dealer]

100MB?

Conservatively 100MB. It was just an illustration. If it needs more than that, all the more reason to have more than 2GB.

 

[KageMaru]

The age of the webpage means it doesn't exist?

No, the fact that it doesn't exist in the market means it doesn't exist.

Again show me proof that it has become more than a concept on a webpage.

 

[jeff_rigby]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/sof...ec-for-software-use-across-multicore-devices/

ARM, AMD Other companies in the HSA Foundation are Texas Instruments, which develops chips for smartphones, Imagination Technologies, which develops graphics technology used in smartphones and tablets and MediaTek, which provides mobile chips.

The Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) Foundation will provide an open hardware interface specification under which program execution can be easily offloaded to other processing resources available in servers, PCs and mobile devices. The new specification will lead to applications that are portable across architectures, while also enabling workloads to be broken up between CPUs and graphics processors for faster and more power efficient computing.

= Cell vision 2011

Software is usually written specific to a device, and the HSA Foundation is an effort to abstract the hardware layer so software can work across the multiple devices and cores, said Dean McCarron, principal analyst at Mercury Research.
For example, smartphones have customized versions of Android, but a standardized specification could provide the groundwork to abstract the hardware, which could enable Android builds to work across different devices.

"It looks to me like they are laying down some of the infrastructure to enable some portability," McCarron said. "If you established what amounts to a standard API for cores, that interaction can be abstracted."

= HSAIL

Offload GPU and CPU processing from your handheld to your PS4....coming with next generation.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Now im gonna admit im quite behind the powercurve. Is HSA something I should look in to?

 

[Karak]

Now im gonna admit im quite behind the powercurve. Is HSA something I should look in to?

They have stated that they are not even at the point of totally laying groundwork, or you could take them all signing the agreement as the first bit but it looks to be way out from groundwork to something usable. Won't go into the next gen obviously.

 

[KageMaru]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/sof...ec-for-software-use-across-multicore-devices/

ARM, AMD Other companies in the HSA Foundation are Texas Instruments, which develops chips for smartphones, Imagination Technologies, which develops graphics technology used in smartphones and tablets and MediaTek, which provides mobile chips.

= Cell vision 2011

= HSAIL

Offload GPU and CPU processing from your handheld to your PS4....coming with next generation.

1. Cell didn't originate any of this, no matter how much of a hard on you have for the chip.

2. What does this have to do with the PS4's possible architecture? Why would anyone care to offload processing from a mobile device onto your console?

 

[Auto_aim1]

The age of the webpage means it doesn't exist?

There's not a single relevant press release there, and combined with the fact that there isn't a record of how many units they shipped after being announced ages ago says all that needs to be said.

They've shipped 100 million units of XDR RAM and have also listed products that adopted it. There's nothing like that for XDR 2 so far. It's a fantastic technology, sure, but I doubt we will see it in next-gen consoles.

 

[jeff_rigby]

1. Cell didn't originate any of this, no matter how much of a hard on you have for the chip.

2. What does this have to do with the PS4's possible architecture? Why would anyone care to offload processing from a mobile device onto your console?

Found by onQ123 and I expanded on it. It's part of the Next Generation Game Console Technology thread

http://www.google.com/patents?id=j8...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

The patent is for a Java Model (Virtual machine) - Cell and APU hardware implementation allowing the "Cell Vision" of sharing processor, memory and data over broadband network (Internet and wireless) with a common ISA instruction set. This is the AMD HSA IL (JIT Virtual machine) which "Scales from Handheld to Supercomputer".

The date in the patent is Dec 8, 2011, it starts with Cell in PDAs (1 cell personal handheld devices like cell phones and Tablets), TVs 4 cell...you get the point, as many cell processors (CPU + SPU) as needed by the device and goes on to use Cell and APU as equivalent building blocks Cell=APU=(CPU + GPGPU)=(CPU + SPU).

The Dec 8, 2011 date is important! The first picture with Cell in everything is the original vision with Cell still planned for advanced CE devices displaying 4K (TV and high end 4K blu-ray). Cell is in the Toshiba 4K TV and it does have features not possible without Cell.

That AMD is including this in all AMD Full HSA Fusion APUs (2013 and later) means the PS4 and future PCs (at least AMD) will be able to share application code and data transparently. I don't know how far this will be taken......it's possible to have the same applications run on PS4 and AMD PCs because of the HSA IL virtual machine. The OS (Microsoft Windows 8? or a simplified Linux with PS3 Linux kernel released at the same time as the PS4 Linux supporting the HSA IL virtual machine?) would have to support this and this is possibly another reason for the domain name registration microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com. I suspect this will be fleshed out more at the June AMD developers conference and might be hinted by Sony at E3. Will this if properly explained to the consumer impact buying a PS4 over a WiiU. Is the next Xbox supporting this?

Toshiba PDF mentioning the reason for the Cell (power wall, Frequency wall) and applies to Heterogeneous Cell as well as Fusion APU. Also 1 SPU = 16 Intel core Duo X86 processors for single precision FLOPs in 2008.

SPURS engine (4SPUs) designed to be included in platforms with other processors like X86 (Face Recognition, Media codec, Gesture recognition and more). This is now or will soon be provided by GPGPUs in platforms with GPUs. Platforms that need this power but don't need GPUs will probably use Cell (4K TV, 4K Blu-Ray). PDF also mentions clusters of cell over network to share processing, POSIX etc. This is a 2008 "Cell Vision" and the 2011 Sony patent is a later "cell vision" also including a Virtual engine like PS Suite's Mono.

You can reuse your application and library running on SPE across all Cell family processor. All your efforts on one platform are preserved on other platforms.
Please quit &#8220;reinvention of the wheel&#8221;

Please join us to create common environment
Please stop developing environment, but feedback to common environment instead
Please focus on your actual applications
Please look forward to enjoying compatibility
Firstly, write your code using PS3 or CRS(Toshiba&#8217;s Cell Reference Set)
Then, scale up to high performance computing world using QS22 or later blades without any modification
And, make available to PC users using SpursEngine!

Sony created a group to develop and promote DLNA (2000) to share media over the home network. This is being expanded to RVU which is Remote Viewing and control of DVR boxes. DLNA includes discovery and Plug and Play which was developed by the DLNA group. A next generation game console following this vision will need DLNA, RVU and multiple low power standby modes always listening to the Network port; the AMD Fusion SOC chipset provides these as well as the 2011 "Cell vision".

That AMD is including this in all AMD Full HSA Fusion APUs (2013 and later) means the PS4 and future PCs (at least AMD) will be able to share application code and data transparently. I don't know how far this will be taken......it's possible to have the same applications run on PS4 and AMD PCs because of the HSA IL virtual machine. The OS (Microsoft Windows 8? or a simplified Linux with PS3 Linux kernel released at the same time as the PS4 Linux supporting the HSA IL virtual machine?) would have to support this and this is possibly another reason for the domain name registration microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com. I suspect this will be fleshed out more at the June AMD developers conference and might be hinted by Sony at E3. Will this if properly explained to the consumer impact buying a PS4 over a WiiU. Is the next Xbox supporting this?

Will PS Suite be tied into this at some point in the future (announced one month after the above patent)? OpenCL and HSA IL? The PS3 application side is evolving toward a Gnome Mobile Webkit desktop at least as far as functionality and could support a HSA IL virtual machine.

Read posts here especially 4th down.

AMD is addressing this via HSA. HSA addresses these fundamental points by introducing an intermediate layer (HSAIL) that insulates software stacks from the individual ISAs. This is a fundamental enabler to the convergence of SW stacks on top of HC.

Unless the install base is large enough, the investment to port *all* standard languages across to an ISA is forbiddingly large. Individual companies like AMD are motivated but can only target a few languages at a time. And the software community is not motivated if the install base is fragmented. HSA breaks this deadlock by providing a "virtual ISA" in the form of HSAIL that unifies the view of HW platforms for SW developers. It is important to note that this is not just about functionality but preserves performance sufficiently to make the SW stack truly portable across HSA platforms

This starts with AMD 2013 HSA Fusion APUs and the PS4 SOC should be a 2014 design. Speculation but fits Sony & Toshiba goals for Cell and explains Sony going with a AMD fusion APU as the vision is identical and AMD has done the work. Both AMD and Sony need this to succeed. My opinion is Sony is going to concentrate on software and AMD on hardware including hand-helds.....partnership that hasn't been announced yet? AMD/Global foundries is part of the low power ultrawide memory I/O standards group =>handheld memory. <grin> best choice in a AMD HSA Fusion SOC for handhelds.

EDIT: SemiAccurate article about onlive which brings up the possibility (similar to Folding@home) of using idle AMD Fusion HSA platforms to support something like Onlive between handhelds and PS4 where the PS4 is the GPU in the cloud.

 

[KageMaru]

There's not a single relevant press release there, and combined with the fact that there isn't a record of how many units they shipped after being announced ages ago says all that needs to be said.

They've shipped 100 million units of XDR RAM and have also listed products that adopted it. There's nothing like that for XDR 2 so far. It's a fantastic technology, sure, but I doubt we will see it in next-gen consoles.

Thank you.

wall of bullshit

You know it's possible to address a post without hiding behind a wall filled with useless bolding and colored words.

Also Cell won't be in the next PS4, so WTF are you talking about?

 

[jeff_rigby]

You know it's possible to address a post without hiding behind a wall filled with useless bolding and colored words.

Also Cell won't be in the next PS4, so WTF are you talking about?

Have you heard about Folding@home? Last sentence in my previous post. Xbox360 gamers have some catching up and may not know about Folding@home or read about the Cell vision.

For Toshiba and Sony, being able to share processor and memory between various Consumer Electronics devices creates an ecosystem. In this ecosystem of the Cell vision, a PS3 could share the Cell and memory in a File server with cell processors or a Blu-ray player with Cell, increasing it's performance. This was one of the rumored reasons the PS3 had a Gigabit network port.

The 2011 Cell vision does not need a cell processor, it's hardware agnostic using a virtual machine (HSA IL JIT Virtual machine).


Folding@home The project has pioneered the uses of GPUs, PlayStation 3s, and Message Passing Interface (used for computing on multi-core processors) for distributed computing and scientific research. This large-scale computing network has allowed Folding@home to simulate protein folding at timescales thousands of times longer than previously achieved.

 

[z0m3le]

Have you heard about Folding@home? Last sentence in my previous post. Xbox360 gamers have some catching up and may not know about Folding@home or read about the Cell vision.

For Toshiba and Sony, being able to share processor and memory between various Consumer Electronics devices creates an ecosystem. In this ecosystem of the Cell vision, a PS3 could share the Cell and memory in a File server with cell processors or a Blu-ray player with Cell, increasing it's performance. This was one of the rumored reasons the PS3 had a Gigabit network port.

The 2011 Cell vision does not need a cell processor, it's hardware agnostic using a virtual machine (HSA IL JIT Virtual machine).

yeah, you are talking about compute shaders, so just call it that... Cell without the Cell... lol

 

[BeEatNU]

I hate when you guys mainly Jeff starts posting all this crazy patent theory stuff :/

 

[thuway]

I officially have lost track on what we are talking about.

 

[StevieP]

I officially have lost track on what we are talking about.

I think it's how many penisflops we have.

 

[DieH@rd]

I officially have lost track on what we are talking about.

Jeff is saying that Sony and AMD are aiming to create console in which any part of code could be processed in any part of of its central hardware [APU], or even hardware over motherboard buses [dedicated GPU] and external connections [LAN]. Its a nice idea, expecially since there is no more need of creating insane CPU configuration. With HSA you can truly offload a ton of things to GPUs [which have thousands of parallel threads], and it can be used for potential emulation of CELL or its functions.

Same thing will soon become part of home PC's, at least if AMD is successful [they are making all the right moves so far, standardizing sw and hw with few very big companies].

 

[KageMaru]

Have you heard about Folding@home? Last sentence in my previous post. Xbox360 gamers have some catching up and may not know about Folding@home or read about the Cell vision.

For Toshiba and Sony, being able to share processor and memory between various Consumer Electronics devices creates an ecosystem. In this ecosystem of the Cell vision, a PS3 could share the Cell and memory in a File server with cell processors or a Blu-ray player with Cell, increasing it's performance. This was one of the rumored reasons the PS3 had a Gigabit network port.

The 2011 Cell vision does not need a cell processor, it's hardware agnostic using a virtual machine (HSA IL JIT Virtual machine).


Folding@home The project has pioneered the uses of GPUs, PlayStation 3s, and Message Passing Interface (used for computing on multi-core processors) for distributed computing and scientific research. This large-scale computing network has allowed Folding@home to simulate protein folding at timescales thousands of times longer than previously achieved.

What the fucking fuck? Who the are you to be acting all high and mighty with this smug tone? I know about folding@home, I have a PS3 that I use almost daily, and I think you should STFU with your pompous comments since all you do is take quotes out of context and spread misconceptions in this forum.

How many times have you been proven wrong? How many times have you been corrected on one of your assumptions? Pull your head out of Sony's ass for two seconds and realize I'm not falling for your bullshit.

I can't wait until next gen specs are revealed and I hope they are nothing like you keep assuming they'll be so everyone can see what kind of joke you are.

I hate when you guys mainly Jeff starts posting all this crazy patent theory stuff :/

That's Jeff for you. He'll spend hours looking through Sony patents and anything he finds=FACT! even though he doesn't understand that these companies make plenty of patents and many don't see the light of day.

 

[Ashes]

Temper tantrums on gaming forums. Next gen console speculation sure is serious business.

 

[Karak]

Temper tantrums on gaming forums. Next gen console speculation sure is serious business.

Hell ya. I want to know exactly how many penisflops and vaginabits my system will be able to fold@home while allowing for HSA across my stack of complex cell cores within cores within cores. Don't you?

 

[KageMaru]

Temper tantrums on gaming forums. Next gen console speculation sure is serious business.

I'm just telling him he should STFU before making assumptions about people or technology. There's nothing worse than someone who will cherry pick which post to ignore and which to reply to.

I'm not mad at all, just annoyed that he's ruining another thread with his bullshit. I stayed out of the last PS4 rumor thread for a reason.

 

[Avtomat]

I thought Tahiti and Pitcairn were the same architecture?

Anyway, the reason this will probably be reasonable at 28nm is because there won't be two chips One APU at 28nm. It might be a large-ish chip but there'll only be the one.

You know what my bad I always thought Tahiti was more Compute looking seeing as it got beat out by the smaller 680 and was of the opinion AMD must have done a split a la Nvidia with the 560 and 580.

One giant APU you say, interesting, anything above 320 mm^2 I think is off the table. In addition with the CPU and GPU occupying relatively even portions of the chip would you not run into a problem of having to disable 1 core or entire module and 1 bank of compute units in order to keep yeilds up?

What I am saying is on a traditional CPU the vast majority of area is usually cache so if we have a defect we disable a section of cache or a number of cores and sell at a lower price. On a GPU the greatest area is taken up by compute units and you act accordingly. On this APU the majority of area is not taken up by a single unit so in order to keep yields up will you not end up having to disable both a core and a bank of compute units thus limiting your performance - especially on a chip which is going to weigh in at around 300 mm^2.

 

[StevieP]

Guys, guys.
Let's all have a beer

 

[onQ123]

I'm just telling him he should STFU before making assumptions about people or technology. There's nothing worse than someone who will cherry pick which post to ignore and which to reply to.

I'm not mad at all, just annoyed that he's ruining another thread with his bullshit. I stayed out of the last PS4 rumor thread for a reason.

everything up until the official specs are revealed is assumptions so why get mad about someone's assumptions in a thread that's filled with nothing but assumptions?

 

[KageMaru]

Guys, guys.
Let's all have a beer

Got any Labatt Blue?

everything up until the official specs are revealed is assumptions so why get mad about someone's assumptions in a thread that's filled with nothing but assumptions?

He can blow smoke up your guys' ass all he wants, it's his assumption about me and what I do or don't know that bothers me. Besides, like I said, I'm not mad, just very annoyed.

Keep in mind he bothers me more than most here due to an exchange of PMs we had previously which ended with him just calling me a fanboy because lowering himself to name calling was the only option he had left.

 

[onQ123]

Got any Labatt Blue?



He can blow smoke up your guys' ass all he wants, it's his assumption about me and what I do or don't know that bothers me. Besides, like I said, I'm not mad, just very annoyed.

Keep in mind he bothers me more than most here due to an exchange of PMs we had previously which ended with him just calling me a fanboy because lowering himself to name calling was the only option he had left.

I'm pretty sure gaf has a ignore list if someone annoys you & everything they post annoys you it would be better to just put them on your ignore list.

 

[Karak]

Keep in mind he bothers me more than most here due to an exchange of PMs we had previously which ended with him just calling me a fanboy because lowering himself to name calling was the only option he had left.

The truth will out. Always in the long run. There is a reason, if you look back, why some posts are just skipped by most of us and discussion continues. Do the same thing and in the end they become as annoying as a Wii ad and that is about it. Though I admit my scroll wheel gets a workout

Its all good!

Also why can't I find the ignore button or list. Damn.

 

[StevieP]

Got any Labatt Blue?

Currently only Molson Canadian, with a side of 12GB of ram

 

[KageMaru]

I'm pretty sure gaf has a ignore list if someone annoys you & everything they post annoys you it would be better to just put them on your ignore list.

Thanks but I have too much fun laughing at his posts when I actually care to enter a thread he's in. I was just annoyed since he decided to share his ignorant assumption about me. It doesn't help that I'm having a shitty day at work too lol

The truth will out. Always in the long run. There is a reason, if you look back, why some posts are just skipped by most of us and discussion continues. Do the same thing and in the end they become as annoying as a Wii ad and that is about it. Though I admit my scroll wheel gets a workout

Its all good!

Also why can't I find the ignore button or list. Damn.

Yeah you're right, sorry about the OT posts.

Currently only Molson Canadian, with a side of 12GB of ram

That's cool I like Molson Canadian the same. Those two are my favorite beers =p

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Guys, guys.
Let's all have a beer

Only if you promise me 4 gigs.

Spoiler

=) =O

At this point i think SP knows more info about PS4 than jeff.

Sorry jeff, i like you but

Hope you prove us wrong.

 

[onQ123]

AMD 2013 APUs To Include ARM Cortex-A5 Processor For TrustZone Capabilities

Guess this can take on the security job that one of the Cell's SPEs was used for in the PS3 now that PS4 will not have a Cell processor.

 

[StevieP]

Only if you promise me 4 gigs.

Depends on the density of the beer, and its type.
Sometimes you can only make a certain lager based on the availability of the brew kettles.

 

[Karak]

Depends on the density of the beer, and its type.
Sometimes you can only make a certain lager based on the availability of the brew kettles.

Shoot. I was hoping you could stack the kegs.

 

[Shikoro]

Depends on the density of the beer, and its type.
Sometimes you can only make a certain lager based on the availability of the brew kettles.

Shoot. I was hoping you could stack the kegs.

Haha, love it. XD

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Depends on the density of the beer, and its type.
Sometimes you can only make a certain lager based on the availability of the brew kettles.

I laughed.