I'm saying that the PS1 didn't originate on its own but came out of direct result of Sony working on the SNES CD-ROM add-on.
Dual N64-controller setup in Goldeneye.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Totilo article on Wii U's power. New rumors, analysis of getting PS4/720 ports
- Thread starter schuelma
- Start date
I'm saying that the PS1 didn't originate on its own but came out of direct result of Sony working on the SNES CD-ROM add-on.
Dual N64-controller setup in Goldeneye.
rohlfinator
Member
Yeah, the controller issue is one of my bigger concerns about the system. It's one thing to offer multiple control options in the same device, like the N64 or the DS, but three separate controllers just seems nuts. It might be less of an issue for current Wii owners, but I'm not excited about the prospects of having to buy all these different controllers to cover all the bases.
We shall see about that price. Or whether being slightly cheaper is that great of an advantage when you're pushing 7-year old hardware.
The controller with a screen is the gimmick. That's their whole sales pitch. That is their reason to buy the console. Without that, you're left with a console that has roughly the same level of hardware that's been out on the market since 2005, and is currently available for $99.99. If they fail to sell people on that gimmick, then they've failed to sell the system to anyone that isn't buying just because they love Mario that much.
I assume by "roughly" you mean "between 2-4x" right?
bgassassin
Member
We have an indication they did in April. But most likely not through a physical change of the CPU.
You're pretty sure of yourself there.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Probably $199 with a three year committment to Xbox Live / PS+ / Comcast / your soul being forfeit
bgassassin
Member
The early target specs he refers to told him everything.
No the size of the case told me everything. The early specs filled in the details. The power brick confirmed it....
By "roughly" I mean it will be running current gen games that look like current gen games.
bgassassin
Member
Totally concrete. Nothing else to see here. >_>
Aside from them copying the SNES controller practically verbatim..no nothing at all.
While the PS controller took obvious design cues from the SNES pad, it was far from a verbatim copy. Handles, split d-pad and additional shoulder buttons make the pad feel completely different.
I remember in Edge yeeeears ago, there was a photo of all the design iterations of the pad. Different designs, all carved out of wood, used to test out which form factor worked the best.
I can't find it on Google, but did find a couple of the rejected designs which are more like the SNES pad.
(what I did find, which I think was from the same Edge article, is the design evolution of the PS logo. Which is neat.)
Trusted insiders sources rated Vita from "half as powerful" to "pretty much a portable Ps3". :/
Which early specs? You got the clocks, number of SPUs, memory setup or at least transistor count of the device?
bgassassin
Member
The case size and early target specs told him everything... everything.
That's a lot of information, all you really needed to know to figure out the specs was that it is a Nintendo console.
Right bros?
I'm not too worried about it, and it's tiresome to see people argue over the power as though the innards of the machine itself is more important than the games. It will look great and perform great, and while it likely won't measure up to Sony and Microsoft's next consoles it should still be able to handle ports decently. And everyone will love it the first time they see Mario and Zelda in true HD.
I was just thinking about the possibilities the Wii U presents with sports games. Drawing up my own plays in NCAA and adjusting formation/tactics on the fly in FIFA sounds great. Regardless of what the haters say, I'm stoked for this machine.
I was just thinking about the possibilities the Wii U presents with sports games. Drawing up my own plays in NCAA and adjusting formation/tactics on the fly in FIFA sounds great. Regardless of what the haters say, I'm stoked for this machine.
Error Macro
Member
Despite the odd appearance, the GCN's C-stick was indeed an analog input device. However, it was a natural progression of the C-buttons already present on the N64 pad, which were intended for camera controls.
Hmm, if you take the C-stick from the 'Cube controller and put it in place of the C-buttons on the N64 controller, it's basically the Wii U's layout :O
WOWOWOW
shinra-bansho
Member
Something something copycat blah blah.
Innovation is, frankly, overrated and iterative improvement incredibly undervalued.
Innovation is, frankly, overrated and iterative improvement incredibly undervalued.
This guy knows what's up. Game over Nintendo. Game over man.
I'm not saying the 360 had HDMI first or anything. I'm just saying it's likely next Gen systems would likely have had these features regardless.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
But its actually not as small as it appears. I think what's important is the foot-print of the console, not overall volume. Unless the design has the components staked like with Gamecube or a mac-mini, the surface area gives you an idea of how big the motherboard and heat sink will be.
Here is are cut outs of the official Wii U dimensions side by side with the foot-print of an xbox 360 slim:
Here is the Wii U overlapping Microsoft's console:
As you can see the Wii U is not so tiny when compared to the Xbox 360.
Third party ports are likely to look identical. They probably still would if the Wii was 20x as powerful, but maybe in 1080 or 60fps.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Clearly ~600GFLOPs == 2* 240GFLOPs confirmed.
Judging by what they showed of first party games, it's all going to look pretty current gen.
Bluemercury
Member
Where are the power brick photos?
Do you really believe NSMB U, NintendoLand or Pikmin 3 are indicative of the Wii Us power though?
That's like thinking NSMBW, Wii Sports and NPC Pikmin were indicative of the Wiis power.
It okay buddy. Keep your head up. I think its funny you call me out for questioning how they could get over 500 gflops, now this has turn into best case. Using the latest AMD IG GPU BTW. As you said "they passed that with under clock early dev kits." Not with a r700 based card in this little small box. So you went to the latest and greatest from amd. But even this still get you to around 500 glfop at 35 watts about double the performance of current gen consoles at 240 glfops.
And for every gen of gpu they go back from current the performance gets worse. If they are still using r700 that match the "early dev kit" its not pretty. To the point that it barely above ps360. For example the RV730 PRO is 384 gflops and is a 48watt tdp card at 55nm. If they lower it to 32nm this may fit into the tdp range needed.
You were betting on a very high power usage like 80w-100w. I was right in the 40-50w for the console....
I dont need any of that. I can guess the gpu performance pretty much at any given tdp for every gen of amd gpu, from r700 to current. It might not be exact but in the same ballpark. ballpark is 300-550 in this tdp range.
It not that wide of scale.... perforance on the high end is 550 glfop about double the current gen consoles[240 glfops].
The power brick already confirm the tpd. I was right the whole time...
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Whoa, hold your horses there buddy. The max flops ratings of the ALUs (which is what is being discussed here) have not changed since.. I dunno, R300 perhaps. So it does not matter whether it's GCN or R300 - it's always 2 FLOPs per scalar per clock (clearly referring to MAD/FMAD). What part of that max flop rating can be achieved under what conditions is an entirely different matter (yes, there GCN could have an efficiency advantage with the current crop of compilers). But in the same regard, a more recent VLIW design would likewise be more efficient than Xenos'. So please don't run around claiming how 500-600GFLOP of VLIW is 2x Xenos' 240GFLOP, while at the same time declaring how VLIW is oh-so-less efficient than GCN.
80W-100W was also my guess for a max PSU rating given the case, just because it's quite possible to achieve that (for reference see the myriad of 85W-110W mac minis).
No photos, just eyewitness info.
Flops do change based on GPU design because of the main fact that each new series in done on a different fab. For the same power consumption you get more flops. So VLIW is less efficient than GCN just for the fact they are design for different fab. I know there is some over lap but you understand what I am saying. Now if we find out what fab the gpu is being built on that is pretty much the final piece. This of course is GFLOPS/W. Which is really the measure we can use in wiiu. We take any gpu family and put in the range of power[watts] and it will give us a ball park of the gflops.
Its pretty easy to understand. Gflop are a bad measure but that is all we have to compare. If you like we can find some gaming benchmarks and comparing them to the ps3[rsx aka a 7800gs].
But even with this efficiency the number do not change much. And let us be sure to included this when we talk next gen consoles from ms/sony that will be using GCN.
You leave out one important factor, Cost. MAC mini are expensive something the wiiu cannot be....
He was not saying PSU rating he was speaking of the console itself.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I understand what you're saying - that a VLIW design might not be able to achieve the clock or ALU density of the GCN design at the same fab node. Yet, E6760 (which is what I assume you refer to as 'best case') is not GCN - it's VLIW (Turks). Vis-a-vis a Wekiva (assuming it's the closest architecture to U-GPU's that we are familiar with), Turks affects the wavefront efficiency, i.e. the compiler utilisation of the ALUs, but essentially nothing changes with regard to the fab process efficiency per ALU. So yes, a Wekiva manufactured in the same fab node as E6760's can have the same number or ALUs and reach the same wattage at the same clock.
Sure. I'm not neglecting GCN's higher efficiency at the current compiler tech levels. And I'm well aware of the flops' disadvantages as metrics.Its pretty easy to understand. Gflop are a bad measure but that is all we have to compare. If you like we can find some gaming benchmarks and comparing them to the ps3[rsx aka a 7800gs.
But even with this efficiency the number do not change much. And let us be sure to included this when we talk next gen consoles from ms/sony that will be using GCN.
While the minis surely have more expensive motherboards, their cooling system is bog standard. I've been using minis for a few model generations now, and I always service them myself. Mini's "secret" to staying cool in those little cases is nothing exotic or expensive - it's good old thermal engineering keeping all exhaust air paths ultra short. Basically, it's all a matter of how fast it can dispatch of the heat that builds up inside, and short air paths combined with a reasonable throughput fan do just fine there.
While the minis use nowhere near their PSU's rating during normal loads, they can (and do) occasionally reach the PSU ratings, as shown in this official table (376 BTU/h is another way of saying 110W of thermal power).
Similar threads
- Locked