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[JaseC]

No it doesn't. He is saying Steam should keep on authenticating past purchases but you are restricted from doing anything else. It would be understandable if Valve hadn't built Steam to do that but recently they are allowing banned accounts to access their games so the functionality exists.

What they need to do now is revise how the terms of service application works such that if you decline the terms it doesn't deactivated steam but instead put you under ban status.

Well, technically, the entire point of the account restriction system is that banning/disabling accounts is no longer necessary. But, yes, there is bitter irony in the fact that those who disobey the SSA after having agreed to it are afforded greater access to their account/s than those who'd prefer to decline.

 

[iNvid02]

Well, technically, the entire point of the account restriction system is that banning/disabling accounts is no longer necessary. But, yes, there is bitter irony in the fact that those who disobey the SSA after having agreed to it are afforded greater access to their account/s than those who'd prefer to decline.

this is all they need to fix, if they had given users who decline the same accessibility as suspended accounts this thread would never have been created

 

[paolo11]

For those who are saying Steam offline mode is a myth, care to explain why? I play my Steam offline just fine( no Internet connection). Or are you just plain trolling?

 

[Sentenza]

No idea why people keep bringing up this strawman.

Because it isn't one.

 

[BlackJace]

For those who are saying Steam offline mode is a myth, care to explain why? I play my Steam offline just fine( no Internet connection). Or are you just plain trolling?

Mine never works. And I have some of the best internet.

 

[Catshade]

For those who are saying Steam offline mode is a myth, care to explain why? I play my Steam offline just fine( no Internet connection). Or are you just plain trolling?

It's pretty spotty, especially if you have an unplanned offline session. That, and there's no indefinite offline mode; after a few months, you have to go online to authenticate your account again.

 

[paolo11]

Mine never works. And I have some of the best internet.

Did you check the Steam FAQ on how to do it? Mine always works offline. I can help you as well later.

 

[paolo11]

It's pretty spotty, especially if you have an unplanned offline session. That, and there's no indefinite offline mode; after a few months, you have to go online to authenticate your account again.

If you check the remember my password box and click offline mode once when your online, your good to go. And show me the link that I have to authenticate again because I never heard of this.

 

[Pandaman]

If you check the remember my password box and click offline mode once when your online, your good to go. And show me the link that I have to authenticate again because I never heard of this.

you have to click offline mode before you go offline?

not everybody gets that chance.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

I'd call this a slippery slope, but customers were fallen at the bottom of the hill before the debate started, they just did not want to admit it.

Steamworks baffles me though. Why again, did consumers want their games to be monopolized by a online retail store? Why? It's like MS going Gamestop Only. It's not like you couldn't buy your game at Gamestop before.

 

[alexandros]

He is saying Steam should keep on authenticating past purchases but you are restricted from doing anything else. It would be understandable if Valve hadn't built Steam to do that but recently they are allowing banned accounts to access their games so the functionality exists.

It's not the same. Getting banned from a game is a violation of that game's Terms and Conditions, not Steam's in general. In this case you are refusing to use the service as a whole, so it isn't possible to retain access. It sucks, but I can't see how it would be possible to keep using a service, even in a limited way, when you don't accept the terms of that service.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

While I would agree with you that Gabe Newell wasn't exactly kind and forgiving in that circumstance, you should really try to read "the Final hours of Half-Life 2" to understand where that came from.
Most of Valve's staff was in a state of deep depression after that leak. They thought it was going to kill the company. Gabe Newell reported that some of the youngest employees went to talk to him, asking if it they were going to shut down the studio, if it was the end for them.

I can just guess that he really hated (*fiercely*) that little prick who put them in that rough spot and then even bragged about it in some email asking for a job.

I never understood why the leak meant Valve had to dissolve. Never.

People would have still purchased HL2 in droves.

 

[Mudkips]

Still waiting for the joke that is Steam Support to respond to my ticket.

I've also filed complaints with the BBB, the FTC, the EFF, and the Washington State Attorney General. I'll be sending incessant registered letters to Valve beginning this week.

For those who are saying Steam offline mode is a myth, care to explain why? I play my Steam offline just fine( no Internet connection). Or are you just plain trolling?

Offline mode has never, ever worked for me.
If I have Steam open and I tell it to use offline mode, I can play games.
If I close Steam and reopen Steam, one of the following happens:

If I have an internet connection Steam works and I am in regular mode (not offline mode).
If I do not have an internet connection Steam does not work.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Still waiting for the joke that is Steam Support to respond to my ticket.

I've also filed complaints with the BBB, the FTC, the EFF, and the Washington State Attorney General. I'll be sending incessant registered letters to Valve beginning this week.

Is the new ToS live for Europe as well? Cause it breaks EU law, as well as this licensing mumbo jumbo.

Gonna be really funny if they put the squeeze on Americans while letting Europeans have their right to their products.

 

[Mudkips]

Is the new ToS live for Europe as well? Cause it breaks EU law, as well as this licensing mumbo jumbo.

Gonna be really funny if they put the squeeze on Americans while letting Europeans have their right to their products.

Yes it is, and there's a line in it saying something along the lines of "Some of this might not apply to people in the EU.".

 

[Boerseun]

Religion of peace.

Spoiler

Wrong thread?

 

[paolo11]

Still waiting for the joke that is Steam Support to respond to my ticket.

I've also filed complaints with the BBB, the FTC, the EFF, and the Washington State Attorney General. I'll be sending incessant registered letters to Valve beginning this week.



Offline mode has never, ever worked for me.
If I have Steam open and I tell it to use offline mode, I can play games.
If I close Steam and reopen Steam, one of the following happens:

If I have an internet connection Steam works and I am in regular mode (not offline mode).
If I do not have an internet connection Steam does not work.

Im going to verify if offline mode works for me. I find it odd some of you guys are unable to play the game offline

 

[OldJadedGamer]

If you check the remember my password box and click offline mode once when your online, your good to go. And show me the link that I have to authenticate again because I never heard of this.

Needing to be online so that you can play offline is an oxymoron.

 

[(._.)]

Steamworks baffles me though. Why again, did consumers want their games to be monopolized by a online retail store? Why? It's like MS going Gamestop Only. It's not like you couldn't buy your game at Gamestop before.

I guess your question is why do people want Steamworks in a good amount of their PC games? to answer this.

Many people like having everything they've ever purchased being in one organised place available to them 24/7. its nice that the retail game you buy goes straight to your steam library which often holds the majority of most user's PC games. achievements and community features around the game have also been a major contributing factor too.

Offline mode has never, ever worked for me.
If I have Steam open and I tell it to use offline mode, I can play games.
If I close Steam and reopen Steam, one of the following happens:

If I have an internet connection Steam works and I am in regular mode (not offline mode).
If I do not have an internet connection Steam does not work.

LOL just because you don't know how to do a simple google search in order to get offline mode working doesn't mean it is broken

 

[CecilRousso]

Steamworks baffles me though. Why again, did consumers want their games to be monopolized by a online retail store? Why? It's like MS going Gamestop Only. It's not like you couldn't buy your game at Gamestop before.

Why we want Steamworks? Because we experienced the alternatives, and it was not pleasant.

 

[Mudkips]

LOL just because you don't know how to do a simple google search in order to get offline mode working doesn't mean it is completely broken

LOL just because you don't have the problem doesn't mean others don't.
I know how it's supposed to work. It doesn't fucking work.

 

[(._.)]

LOL just because you don't have the problem doesn't mean others don't.
I know how it's supposed to work. It doesn't fucking work.

apparently you don't actually

 

[Sentenza]

I never understood why the leak meant Valve had to dissolve. Never.

People would have still purchased HL2 in droves.

I'm actually with you on this, but that's what people say everytime there's a leak.
See: Crysys 2 or Deus EX HR. Apparently if someone can try your game before it's complete, it means you are royally screwed or something.

On a more serious note, for HL2 the problem was probably worse than for those other two games because (if I remember right) they leaked even the source code with the early build.

 

[Mudkips]

apparently you don't actually

Select offline mode.
Go offline.
Steam doesn't work.

Apparently the EFF is aware and looking into it. I hope they raise a stink.

[Mudkips],

Thanks for contacting EFF.

I have been notified of some of the clauses. I'm going to start researching it this week.

Best,

Mark M. Jaycox

 

[paolo11]

Needing to be online so that you can play offline is an oxymoron.

It's only a one time activation for the online anyway. So only one time, change it to offline mode, disconnect your computer from Internet and go play offline mode. It will work. Guaranteed.

 

[rozay]

It's only a one time activation for the online anyway. So only one time, change it to offline mode, disconnect your computer from Internet and go play offline mode. It will work. Guaranteed.

I did that, then a year later when I went to Tahoe and had no internet access, offline mode refused to work. It's not a one time only thing and I guess you need to do it every so often which makes it worthless in my book.

 

[Psi]

The only time offline mode didn't work for me was a while back when there was some kind of bug where it would only work if you logged in with your username in all lowercase letters. I think they fixed that pretty quickly, but maybe it's still an issue for some people. Might want to give it a try.

 

[Mudkips]

It's only a one time activation for the online anyway. So only one time, change it to offline mode, disconnect your computer from Internet and go play offline mode. It will work. Guaranteed.

Not guaranteed because it fucking never worked for me. This is what would happen when I had and didn't have internet connectivity:

Be online
Launch Steam
Select offline mode
Steam works
Close Steam
Launch Steam
Steam tries to connect to the Steam servers and succeeds
Steam is in online mode even though I told it to go to offline mode during my last session


Be online
Launch Steam
Select offline mode
Go offline
Steam works
Close Steam
Launch Steam
Steam tries to connect to the Steam servers and fails to launch
Steam is in online mode even though I told it to go to offline mode during my last session and have no internet connectivity

The only time offline mode didn't work for me was a while back when there was some kind of bug where it would only work if you logged in with your username in all lowercase letters. I think they fixed that pretty quickly, but maybe it's still an issue for some people. Might want to give it a try.

If I ever use my Steam account again I'll check this.

 

[Inanna]

The reason why I still buy physical copies of most games whenever I can! And also the reason why I do most of my gaming on the consoles.

 

[NullPointer]

Apparently the EFF is aware and looking into it. I hope they raise a stink.

Excellent.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Yes it is, and there's a line in it saying something along the lines of "Some of this might not apply to people in the EU.".

Well I thought it would be really funny but I ain't laughin.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I love the steam supporters.

Steam Supporter: YOU DUMMY SELECT OFFLINE MODE.

Customer: I can't get it to work, it keeps closing when I disagree with the new terms.

Steam Supporter: YOU DUMASS

Customer: OK....

Great comedic responses.

 

[paolo11]

I love the steam supporters.

Steam Supporter: YOU DUMMY SELECT OFFLINE MODE.

Customer: I can't get it to work, it keeps closing when I disagree with the new terms.

Steam Supporter: YOU DUMASS

Customer: OK....

Great comedic responses.

C'mon, sir. You're not trying to start a flame war, are you? Trust me, I don't like Steam's deactivation policy as well but Steam's offline mode is working for a lot of us.

Mudkip, I'll test my Steam offline mode tonight and will see what happens. I'll tell you what I did.

 

[faceless007]

I'll be speaking to a lawyer tonight about the ramifications of this particular TOS, the status of licensed purchases and whether a class action would be feasible. If anyone has any questions they think would be pertinent to ask please PM me. This is basically just information-gathering; I don't think this attorney would be willing to represent us.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I'll be speaking to a lawyer tonight about the ramifications of this particular TOS, the status of licensed purchases and whether a class action would be feasible. If anyone has any questions they think would be pertinent to ask please PM me. This is basically just information-gathering; I don't think this attorney would be willing to represent us.

I'll preview it for you:

Ramifications of the TOS: You're bound by it until the terms change or the court says they won't fly.

Status of licensed purchases: It's revocable at the will of Valve, and while it shouldn't be considered legal, it stands until it's brought to court.

Class-Action: You can bring this to court, but you don't have the money. Take out a loan or something if you really want to do it.

 

[faceless007]

Class-Action: You can bring this to court, but you don't have the money. Take out a loan or something if you really want to do it.

Did you see my last question about this?

 

[Zzoram]

Has anyone successfully won a court case against a ToS update for any service before? I suspect not.

 

[GoofsterStud]

C'mon, sir. You're not trying to start a flame war, are you? Trust me, I don't like Steam's deactivation policy as well but Steam's offline mode is working for a lot of us.

Mudkip, I'll test my Steam offline mode tonight and will see what happens. I'll tell you what I did.

If you accepted the terms already, your test will accomplish nothing. It'll show you how people who accepted the terms activate offline mode.

Has anyone successfully won a court case against a ToS update for any service before? I suspect not.

The locking of games makes this an unprecedented case.

 

[paolo11]

If Steam woul let us keep our games if we disagree on the new terms, there would be less uproar.

 

[faceless007]

Chacranajxy, I want to ask you about something you said earlier in the thread:

The confusing thing is that when you buy a game, it tells you "you have bought a subscription to [game]." But yes, elsewhere it lists licenses. It's kind of a mess.


Though in either case, the agreement when you buy a game basically says that Steam can alter or terminate the agreement you have with them for that game for any reason. Which strikes me as a contract that would not hold up in court due to the lack of any obligation on their part.

Could you elaborate on this? Why would an agreement that does not obligate one party to do something be inherently invalid?

 

[Zzoram]

If you accepted the terms already, your test will accomplish nothing. It'll show you how people who accepted the terms activate offline mode.



The locking of games makes this an unprecedented case.

If you don't agree to new PayPal ToS can you still use any PayPal credit you have? That might apply to this situation.

What about not agreeing to new iOS/iTunes ToS and access to your Apple stuff?

 

[NullPointer]

If Steam woul let us keep our games if we disagree on the new terms, there would be less uproar.

Well by all accounts we shouldn't think of them as games, but as game subscriptions. That's how Steam sees it and we should probably use that terminology when talking about Steam, in order to keep people from getting the wrong impression.

It would also help if Steam changed that "Purchase" button to say "Subscribe to this Game Service" instead, but then again we might stop to wonder what we're getting into.

 

[Zzoram]

Well by all accounts we shouldn't think of them as games, but as subscriptions. That's how Steam sees it and we should probably use that terminology when talking about Steam, in order to keep people from getting the wrong impression.

That's how I see it too, it's pretty clear what digital distribution is to me. We pay for a lifetime subscription to use whatever game, and that subscription can be revoked in some exceptional cases.

People who get banned from an online-only game for violating ToS are no longer able to play their game and as far as I'm aware that's legal. You can buy an iPhone but if you don't agree to the Apple ToS when you need to activate it, you can't use your iPhone. Tons of things have moved to a "service" model instead of a "product" model and there are no signs of this trend reversing.

 

[GoofsterStud]

If Steam woul let us keep our games if we disagree on the new terms, there would be less uproar.

That is the uproar. The fact that Steam one upped even Origins with how they implemented this anti-consumer measure.

The fact that people realize they now didn't "purchase for myself".

 

[Zzoram]

That is the uproar. The fact that Steam one upped even Origins with how they implemented this anti-consumer measure.

What? This is exactly the same thing EA Origins added to their ToS before Valve added it to Steam's ToS.

 

[GoofsterStud]

What? This is exactly the same thing EA Origins added to their ToS before Valve added it to Steam's ToS.

No. I did not agree with PSN new terms, I still play the games I purchased.

Origins is the same as PSN on this one, Steam is currently the only exception in a trend we don't want started.

 

[alr1ght]

What? This is exactly the same thing EA Origins added to their ToS before Valve added it to Steam's ToS.

No. They both have the no class action clause.

Valve is locking people out of purchased games if they don't agree to the terms.

 

[Zzoram]

No. They both have the no class action clause.

Valve is locking people out of purchased games if they don't agree to the terms.

Oh. So if you don't agree to the Origins ToS you can keep using Origins? That's bizarre, how is it even a ToS if you don't need to agree to it?

 

[Raptomex]

I accepted it but that seems a little extreme if you ask me.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Oh. So if you don't agree to the Origins ToS you can keep using Origins? That's bizarre, how is it even a ToS if you don't need to agree to it?

You can keep using the last version of origins before the new terms.