• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Mitt Romney announces Paul Ryan as running mate

Status
Not open for further replies.
LostVoyager said:
It is not as big of a deal as it once was. Same with anti-semitism, sexism, etc. They were huge problems and now they are dying down.

That said institutional racism is a big problem like lookism, heightism, etc.

This is my opinion, not a fact.

Look at the people making fun of Paul Ryan looking like Eddie Munster (or whatever it is)
Click to expand...

O.M.G
 
honestly, just reading through the last few pages of LostVoyager's posts has me feeling like I'm less intelligent. It's like wading through the Tumblr cesspool
 
Chumly said:
How about you enlighten everyone here instead of beating around the bush.
Click to expand...

Curufinwe said:
I think you delaying actually responding to the article and making condescending posts instead is much more amusing.

For anyone who's interested in a detailed breakdown of the article behind that article:

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/
Click to expand...

Chill, guys. I just don't have the time right now, but luckily I think from what I've read of Curufinwe's factcheck link that it does an excellent job, as factcheck usually does. In essence it's about Spending and/or Deficits compared to GDP, not about increases from year to year in spending. Also, people in this very thread have pointed out how the crisis of late 2008 drastically changed things; while it isn't fair to put that "saddled" spending on Obama, it also isn't fair to call that the "real" starting point. This'll have to do for now.

To the people saying "lol Liberal Forbes" -- it's an Op-Ed, by Rick Ungar, whose own byline (if that's the right word?) on that very page says "Writing from the left on politics and policies." His bias is right there. Not to say that the article itself is therefore inherently wrong because of it, but it's certainly not a right-winger admitting how great Obama is.
 
Duffyside said:
Chill, guys. I just don't have the time right now, but luckily I think from what I've read of Curufinwe's factcheck link that it does an excellent job, as factcheck usually does. In essence it's about Spending and/or Deficits compared to GDP, not about increases from year to year in spending. Also, people in this very thread have pointed out how the crisis of late 2008 drastically changed things; while it isn't fair to put that "saddled" spending on Obama, it also isn't fair to call that the "real" starting point. This'll have to do for now.

To the people saying "lol Liberal Forbes" -- it's an Op-Ed, by Rick Ungar, whose own byline (if that's the right word?) on that very page says "Writing from the left on politics and policies." His bias is right there. Not to say that the article itself is therefore inherently wrong because of it, but it's certainly not a right-winger admitting how great Obama is.
Click to expand...

That's it? All that smugness for that?
You owe me some anticipation.
 
SVLS6.png
 
Duffyside said:
Chill, guys. I just don't have the time right now, but luckily I think from what I've read of Curufinwe's factcheck link that it does an excellent job, as factcheck usually does. In essence it's about Spending and/or Deficits compared to GDP, not about increases from year to year in spending. Also, people in this very thread have pointed out how the crisis of late 2008 drastically changed things; while it isn't fair to put that "saddled" spending on Obama, it also isn't fair to call that the "real" starting point. This'll have to do for now.

To the people saying "lol Liberal Forbes" -- it's an Op-Ed, by Rick Ungar, whose own byline (if that's the right word?) on that very page says "Writing from the left on politics and policies." His bias is right there. Not to say that the article itself is therefore inherently wrong because of it, but it's certainly not a right-winger admitting how great Obama is.
Click to expand...

What? I don't understand what you are talking about. 2010 Federal spending dropped by 1.8%. 2011 it increased by 4.3%. 2012 it increased by .7%. This significantly less than any other republican president. Is that what you were trying to point out? That Obama has not increased federal spending by very much?
 
Duffyside said:
Ryan is so sharp and well-spoken that I wish he was the nominee. It's a shame there will be only one debate featuring him, and that it won't be against Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1yTY2MciOk
Click to expand...

Anyone here have links/resources that would refute Ryan's points or just offer a differing viewpoint? I want to hear an actual opposition/debate to it but it's not there since only Ryan speaks. I could look myself for all the facts but figure I would try here first. For example the best way to find someone like Krugman's thoughts on Ryan's policies but in detail on every money issue or just people on the left in general.
 
Angry Fork said:
Anyone here have links/resources that would refute Ryan's points or just offer a differing viewpoint? I want to hear an actual opposition/debate to it but it's not there since only Ryan speaks. I could look myself for all the facts but figure I would try here first. For example the best way to find someone like Krugman's thoughts on Ryan's policies but in detail on every money issue or just people on the left in general.
Click to expand...

Are you talking just about the video you quoted or Ryan's policies more generally?
 
empty vessel said:
Are you talking just about the video you quoted or Ryan's policies more generally?
Click to expand...

Both. I know it's a lot to ask for but I'm just now starting to get into economics and want to read everything I can get my hands on so I can know what I'm talking about. I know how many conservatives work in terms of misleading, caring more about economic prosperity than equality, the flat out lying etc. but I would have no clue what the opposite stances are in the Ryan video because I don't know the details. I don't know if what he's saying is true and if it isn't what would I base that on etc. and so on.
 
Angry Fork said:
Anyone here have links/resources that would refute Ryan's points or just offer a differing viewpoint? I want to hear an actual opposition/debate to it but it's not there since only Ryan speaks. I could look myself for all the facts but figure I would try here first. For example the best way to find someone like Krugman's thoughts on Ryan's policies but in detail on every money issue or just people on the left in general.
Click to expand...

I don't know if anyone has gone into depth on this particular speech but its pretty much all fluff like normal. He insinuates that the Medicare cuts will cause the providers to go bankrupt or stop seeing clients which is simply not true since it doesn't actually cut the benefits. The savings are the lump sum payments to hospitals and other payouts. This is to be made up with people actually being on insurance which is why they got the payments in the first place (to pay for uninsured). He blames the Medicare Advantage cuts on on Obama but all its doing is the cutting the extra 9-13% portion that pads private insurance companies bottom lines (Massive waste of taxpayer money). You would think he would be all for that.
 
Duffyside said:
Ryan is so sharp and well-spoken that I wish he was the nominee. It's a shame there will be only one debate featuring him, and that it won't be against Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1yTY2MciOk
Click to expand...
Ryan is well-spoken in the sense that he can calmly distill every Republican talking point into a single speech, but he makes a few significant (and intentional) errors. First, the doc fix has nothing to do with the health care bill (it's something that originated in the 90s), and appending it to the cost of the ACA is merely a gimmick in the other direction: an attempt to make the bill look like it costs more than it really does. Second, the double counting phenomenon is a canard. Kevin Drum explains why. The accusation of budgeting gimmicks is rich coming from someone who will pay for tax cuts by reducing discretionary spending to an unrealistic and untenable level.
 
Angry Fork said:
Anyone here have links/resources that would refute Ryan's points or just offer a differing viewpoint? I want to hear an actual opposition/debate to it but it's not there since only Ryan speaks. I could look myself for all the facts but figure I would try here first. For example the best way to find someone like Krugman's thoughts on Ryan's policies but in detail on every money issue or just people on the left in general.
Click to expand...

Here is Obama's response talking about medicare advantage which is what Romney's recent medicare ad is talking about (and lying about)
http://youtu.be/teEpm9_TJdQ?t=13m43s
 
Angry Fork said:
Anyone here have links/resources that would refute Ryan's points or just offer a differing viewpoint? I want to hear an actual opposition/debate to it but it's not there since only Ryan speaks. I could look myself for all the facts but figure I would try here first. For example the best way to find someone like Krugman's thoughts on Ryan's policies but in detail on every money issue or just people on the left in general.
Click to expand...

He's not wrong about accounting trickery aimed at the CBO rating, and he's not entirely wrong about the lack of savings. I'd say the hole in his logic, interpreting his statements charitably, is that he assumes that an unregulated market that produces the same care would find cost savings the government won't. Interpreting him uncharitably, he implies that people who can't afford their own care will have to do without, lowering the overall cost of the system.
 
Duffyside said:
I wasn't using it as an example of his debating skills, but of his speaking skills and knowledge. I am just presuming that would translate into a debate.
Click to expand...

What is the world makes you think Ryan has any "knowledge" based off that clip? Pretty much everything he was saying was factually wrong or purposefully misinterpreted.
 
While the minutiae of all this is fairly interesting, I think the bigger take away is Republicans are now using the Democrats Mediscare tactics against them. If it works does anyone dare touch Medicare?
 
Dash27 said:
While the minutiae of all this is fairly interesting, I think the bigger take away is Republicans are now using the Democrats Mediscare tactics against them. If it works does anyone dare touch Medicare?
Click to expand...

Republicans have always tried that. It never really works out for them because people are usually more inclined to trust Democrats when it comes to social programs.

And Mediscare? What does that even mean?
 
Dash27 said:
While the minutiae of all this is fairly interesting, I think the bigger take away is Republicans are now using the Democrats Mediscare tactics against them. If it works does anyone dare touch Medicare?
Click to expand...

Wait did you just try to call Democrats out on trying to scare people about Medicare? Did you freaking miss the last 3 years?
 
KHarvey16 said:
I liked the "I'm not doubting CBO, I'm questioning the reality of their numbers." I don't think it worked.
Click to expand...
I'll be sure to use that the next time someone gives a research talk in my department. I'm not doubting your work but I'm questioning the reality of your results.
 
KHarvey16 said:
I liked the "I'm not doubting CBO, I'm questioning the reality of their numbers." I don't think it worked.
Click to expand...

MThanded said:
I'll be sure to use that the next time someone gives a research talk in my department. I'm not doubting your work but I'm questioning the reality of your results.
Click to expand...

What Ryan was obviously referring to were not the numbers of CBO's results, but the numbers they were presented with. The CBO is not a press group who is diligently researching things to find the truth. They are presented a plan and they rate the plan that is presented to them. Ryan was doubting those numbers, as were many people at the time, also pointing out how these things always cost more than the politicians pushing them originally claim, which therefore means the CBO always has to revise its rulings later. Such as here. Multiple times. Here's the latest, from the liberal Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...-the-deficit-less-than-we-previously-thought/
 
It's pretty funny to see Ryan doubt the CBO's numbers because of the assumptions they are given... considering his budget relies on absolutely impossible fundamentals he gave them.

And the CBO (as is their job) played along.
 
Duffyside said:
What Ryan was obviously referring to were not the numbers of CBO's results, but the numbers they were presented with. The CBO is not a press group who is diligently researching things to find the truth. They are presented a plan and they rate the plan that is presented to them. Ryan was doubting those numbers, as were many people at the time, also pointing out how these things always cost more than the politicians pushing them originally claim, which therefore means the CBO always has to revise its rulings later. Such as here. Multiple times. Here's the latest, from the liberal Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...-the-deficit-less-than-we-previously-thought/
Click to expand...

Hey did you ever learn about how tax brackets work? I wanted to follow up but missed the past few days of posts.
 
Duffyside said:
What Ryan was obviously referring to were not the numbers of CBO's results, but the numbers they were presented with. The CBO is not a press group who is diligently researching things to find the truth. They are presented a plan and they rate the plan that is presented to them. Ryan was doubting those numbers, as were many people at the time, also pointing out how these things always cost more than the politicians pushing them originally claim, which therefore means the CBO always has to revise its rulings later. Such as here. Multiple times. Here's the latest, from the liberal Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...-the-deficit-less-than-we-previously-thought/
Click to expand...


The government has relied on the CBO for it's budgetary issues since it's inception. It's only recently that the Republicans have been waging this retarded war against it, just because they don't like the results of some of their NONPARTISAN findings.
 
Duffyside said:
What Ryan was obviously referring to were not the numbers of CBO's results, but the numbers they were presented with. The CBO is not a press group who is diligently researching things to find the truth. They are presented a plan and they rate the plan that is presented to them. Ryan was doubting those numbers, as were many people at the time, also pointing out how these things always cost more than the politicians pushing them originally claim, which therefore means the CBO always has to revise its rulings later. Such as here. Multiple times. Here's the latest, from the liberal Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...-the-deficit-less-than-we-previously-thought/
Click to expand...
Already moving on since you realized that the article was correct that obama hasn't increased federal spending much?
 
Duffyside said:
Ryan is so sharp and well-spoken that I wish he was the nominee. It's a shame there will be only one debate featuring him, and that it won't be against Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1yTY2MciOk
Click to expand...

You see that comment by nt1009? It's the second comment below the top ones for me. Here it is:

Why does Obama and the Liberal Party arbitrarily think that every member of society naturally deserves Health Care and Medicine when that is something that was artificially created?
Click to expand...

I don't normally condone violence, but the things I would do to these kinds of people would get me banned if I discussed them.

Also, these are the kinds of people who oppose Universal Healthcare. Sociopaths.


thezerofire said:
honestly, just reading through the last few pages of LostVoyager's posts has me feeling like I'm less intelligent. It's like wading through the Tumblr cesspool
Click to expand...

Duffyside is about on the same level, although at least he backed off his alphanoid tax comments.
 
Duffyside said:
What Ryan was obviously referring to were not the numbers of CBO's results, but the numbers they were presented with. The CBO is not a press group who is diligently researching things to find the truth. They are presented a plan and they rate the plan that is presented to them. Ryan was doubting those numbers, as were many people at the time, also pointing out how these things always cost more than the politicians pushing them originally claim, which therefore means the CBO always has to revise its rulings later. Such as here. Multiple times. Here's the latest, from the liberal Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...-the-deficit-less-than-we-previously-thought/
Click to expand...

You're aware, of course, that that's a gross cost? The net effect is a reduction of the deficit when the law is taken into account in its entirety. The article says the most recent analysis states that the law reduces the deficit by $4 billion between 2013 and 2019, but I cannot for the life of me find where he's getting this number. The most recent estimate I can find is from March of 2011 and it's $119 billion over the period 2012 to 2019.
 
Puddles said:
You see that comment by nt1009? It's the second comment below the top ones for me. Here it is:
Click to expand...

Wait wait, don't even tell me, let me guess....

....."Comment Pending Approval!"

Yup, another conservative circle-jerk youtube comment section.
 
Tesseract said:
i admire ryan's super intellect.
Click to expand...
What evidence have you seen of that? He talks well, but his budget is not exactly an intellectual landmark.

Honestly the praises heaped on Ryan's brain have left me thinking of Idiocracy. If he's one of the smartest of either side, we are so fucked.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

gaf running slow?
2
73
748
Zacfoldor replied
Paul McCartney BANNED on Reddit
33
753
mopspear replied
UK water running short - 3 day heat wave
2 3 4
176
757
Dr.Morris79 replied
Elon Musk announces TERAFAB
2
78
1K
Ovek replied
Paul Kalkbrenner's new album The Essence
0
346
Sticks replied
Top Bottom