Well, the thing is, Brevik was asked in an interview about this. AFAIK he didnt just randomly offer up his opinion, it was solicited. OTOH, he is talking about game design and whatnot, so I feel Hellgate is fair game on this one.
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Diablo 1/2 project lead shares his opinions of Diablo 3
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Well, the thing is, Brevik was asked in an interview about this. AFAIK he didnt just randomly offer up his opinion, it was solicited. OTOH, he is talking about game design and whatnot, so I feel Hellgate is fair game on this one.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I meant internal repercussions/punishment. I don't think anyone will necessarily be fired over this, but there will likely be some disciplinary action for the employees involved.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Haha, people (read haters) are just out for blood, so they are taking this as an excuse.
Both the interviewer and Brevik where complete dicks in that interview. There is no way to know that his version of D3 would have been recieved any better so it is easy to say crap like this after the fact. And yes, going off hellgate does give a hint that his creation might not have been well recieved anyway, so trying to claim that "people matter" (he was probably thinking of himself) sounds ridiculous.
And then people going for blood because the current developers of d3 get upset on facebook out of all places? I sure hope all these people getting upset sets the same high standard for themselves as they do of others.
haha, oh well, it will be fun to follow if anything happens at least
Doesn't matter if its on Facebook. If it can be viewed by the public you better keep it damn professional. Social networking is a bitch.
That's a good thing.
Yea, I agree... But I still feel some sympathy.
It's just hard for a lot of people to grasp the possible consequences of what they say on their personal accounts on social networks...
He obviously didn't mean for anyone outside their work group to read this. And now he caused a whole shitstorm because of one politically incorrect sentence.
Haha, people (read haters) are just out for blood, so they are taking this as an excuse.
Both the interviewer and Brevik where complete dicks in that interview. There is no way to know that his version of D3 would have been recieved any better so it is easy to say crap like this after the fact. And yes, going off hellgate does give a hint that his creation might not have been well recieved anyway, so trying to claim that "people matter" (he was probably thinking of himself) sounds ridiculous.
And then people going for blood because the current developers of d3 get upset on facebook out of all places? I sure hope all these people getting upset sets the same high standard for themselves as they do of others.
haha, oh well, it will be fun to follow if anything happens at least
I have to go with this aswell. The whole story will be blown big for nothing like every other d3-story.
Yep.
The D3 team is just about to release an amazing patch, and this interview does nothing but takes a quick jab at the whole team - in a case like this, it would take a very enlightened person to just say "fuck it, we are fine" instead of "fuck that dude, seriously".
Of course, here is the point where all the oldschool D2 players can chime in and pretend that this kind of enlightened state is but a requirement for being able to create a game worthy of being a successor of D2
Welcome to internet dude. If you are known person as Jay Wilson you don't want to make any post like he did. And yet knowing it he did. Not only Jay Silvernail is full denial mode, and one of ex-xreators of D3 feels like being hit by bus just because old dev stated what everybody say countless times "loot system and DPS fix it !".
Silvernail responses are just pure gold.
How irrational you must to be stating something like this knowing he created with B North Diablo 1 and 2.
Don't get what the backlash is for. I only read the section quoted in OP and Brevik is very 'civil' in his remarks. He is careful to say that the D3 team went with a different philosophy and that he would have made different decisions than they did. It's not like he was blunt about it like 'your design sucked; crap decision making' and so forth..Brevik avoided overt judgement only saying 'i would have done it differently' rather than 'the way they did it was crap'.
Blizzard really aren't helping themselves with those employee attacks.
Blizzard really aren't helping themselves with those employee attacks.
How does one not think that much? How do people still not realize Facebook is a public forum of discussion?
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Yeah, it puts them in a bad light when they respond to a fairly civil interview by spewing bile.
What patch ? 1.04 It adds new things but it don't fix what really fucked up with D3. And still there is no PvP.
Yep.
The D3 team is just about to release an amazing patch, and this interview does nothing but takes a quick jab at the whole team - in a case like this, it would take a very enlightened person to just say "fuck it, we are fine" instead of "fuck that dude, seriously".
Of course, here is the point where all the oldschool D2 players can chime in and pretend that this kind of enlightened state is but a requirement for being able to create a game worthy of being a successor of D2
I dont even frequent Diablo discussion and your regular persecution complex still annoys me.
I will not try to take your opinion away from you, but I will not put energy into trying to argue with a viewpoint that thinks that 1.0.4 is a "too little, too late" type of thing or something that sucks because it does not turn D3 back into D2.5: HD edition. (Because personally, after 400+ hours in D3, I do not see majorly fucked up things in it that will not get addressed with the new patch. Two remaining things will be whether the skill changes really are enough and whether these interesting new legendaries will be impactful enough to warrant a slot use without the usual mainstat/vit/allres/crit rare being the alternative.)
So let us just agree to disagree : )
I am very sorry to hear that.
maladroit
Member
Haha, people (read haters) are just out for blood, so they are taking this as an excuse.
Both the interviewer and Brevik where complete dicks in that interview. There is no way to know that his version of D3 would have been recieved any better so it is easy to say crap like this after the fact. And yes, going off hellgate does give a hint that his creation might not have been well recieved anyway, so trying to claim that "people matter" (he was probably thinking of himself) sounds ridiculous.
And then people going for blood because the current developers of d3 get upset on facebook out of all places? I sure hope all these people getting upset sets the same high standard for themselves as they do of others.
haha, oh well, it will be fun to follow if anything happens at least
he wasn't being a dick at all, he just said he would've done things differently because the two studios operated differently.
the defensive, dismissive, bitter attitude displayed has become the norm for blizzard employees over the last few years. they routinely have public meltdowns, talk down to people, attack anyone who has issues with any aspect of their games. i don't even know why they're allowed to communicate with the public anymore. nothing good ever comes from it.
edit:
Yep.
The D3 team is just about to release an amazing patch, and this interview does nothing but takes a quick jab at the whole team - in a case like this, it would take a very enlightened person to just say "fuck it, we are fine" instead of "fuck that dude, seriously".
Of course, here is the point where all the oldschool D2 players can chime in and pretend that this kind of enlightened state is but a requirement for being able to create a game worthy of being a successor of D2
lol what's amazing about it? all the people who couldn't beat inferno will now be able to, thus causing more people to quit playing? amazing!
It confounds me, then, that you would inject yourself into said debate. It's just inflammatory posting, and it doesn't further the discussion at all.
antiquegamer
Member
That's why you don't post stuff on social network site that you don't want public to see because well it's public. I have no sympathy for him. His (Jay) and the rest of D3 team (I assume they are) comment just unprofessional and crude.
I love D3 and still play it but I am not going to deny that there is problem with the game especially things that he mention in the interview such as the loot system. The Blizzard Diablo 3 team act as if they don't deserve criticism is just arrogant which is nothing new with Blizzard.
Inject myself into said debate? He was answering me with the post that I replied to.
Also, the consensus amongst those that are still interested in Diablo III and/or play it is that 1.0.4 is a very great patch.
You answered him by saying that you would not debate with your opponents and then subsequently made an argument. How is that not inflammatory?
Your post describes two very different groups of people. I am interested in Diablo III: I am an extremely big fan of the Diablo series, and I've played all of them extensively. I still play Diablo and Diablo II, and I will likely continue to play them for as long as that's possible. I don't play Diablo III, however, because it's terrible. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in it, and there's no one who would like it to not suck more than I do. There are quite clearly a large percentage of "interested" people who are not playing the game as evidenced by the wide gap in the number of people who bought the game and people who are currently playing the game. If they weren't interested in the game, they wouldn't keep talking about it.
And, well, of course the people still playing the game are going to anticipate the patch; they are, after all, still playing it.
1) D2 had its share deal of problems aswell at launch if I recall.
2) I bet that majority of D2 buyers had left the game in the same manner as people left D3.
3) D3 isn't a terrible game. A terrible game is something that has shittons of buggs, broken gameplay / not working and isn't fun. That said, it isn't as good as post patch + post expanstion D2.
Scalemail Ted
Member
How so?
I made a giant post in this thread about Diablo 2's launch problems. They're not the same.
I have Diablo 2 installed in its 1.00 incarnation and I've played through it recently; trust me, it's not that bad.
Diablo 3 has broken gameplay and isn't fun.
He read it and that's how he felt the article came across?
I only read the quoted parts in the OP of this thread but this part is utterly ridiculous:
He's basically saying that he would have done it differently and that he would have been able to avoid some of the changes the new team made that weren't very well-received.
Then he goes on to basically insinuate that the D3 team failed because they didn't have the kind of talent that David Brevik and his team had. Bluntly put, he said they failed because they weren't talented and all that talent left after Blizzard North guys (ie. David Brevik himself) left. He's basically praising himself to the high heavens and shitting all over the D3 team. I would be totally pissed if I was Jay Wilson.
How hard is it for people to read in between the lines here? The first response to this thread is:
So humble? Are you fucking kidding me?
If anyone wants to read the interview it's cached.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cd=1&hl=pt-PT&;ct=clnk&gl=pt&client=firefox-a
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cd=1&hl=pt-PT&;ct=clnk&gl=pt&client=firefox-a
Scalemail Ted
Member
I didn't pickup on those qualities in the interview and was looking for a little insight on it. I gather you feel the same?
maladroit
Member
diablo 3 has all of these things. there was duping, permanently invulnerable characters, tons of other bugs i don't feel like listing, and obviously the game has issues in the broken gameplay and fun departments since they're in the process of overhauling every aspect of the game.
Fugu, help me out here, please, because I have no idea how to progress.
I respect you greatly, really. Based on the posts you made regarding D2, you seem like someone who has 10 times the experience and the skill compared to me in that game.
But, and here is the big but: it does not make your opinion on D3 more rock-solid. It is still going to be a skewed one because obviously, your emotional investment in D2 was great enough that you can just write down things like the parts that I bolded, and not be asked about it. I could post a comment that is similar to yours regarding whether this is good for creating discussions or not.
Personally, when it comes to Diablo III and opinions, besides having my own view (although I understand my own limitations as well: 350+ hours, Wizard/Monk, no perspective over the Barb/WD sight - DH is limited because my girlfriend has one and a friend of mine who I almost exclusively grind with does as well, and I get their mechanics), I VASTLY prefer the guys over the Diablo III OT who express themselves in a constructive manner and have a fair share of experience behind them as well - Scv, Dahbomb, etc. When it comes to Diablo III, there are TONS of valid arguments to be had. Believe me or read back when I say that most of those arguments were played out greatly in previous threads in the OT.
These arguments can be summed up by these:
-Main weapon DPS having too much of an impact on builds (what to do about it?)
-Legendary items should either be improved vastly (because resources were already spent on creating the unique looks) or the unique textures should at least be used in rares as well (Blizz decided to greatly buff them, good decision, right?)
-The game obviously needed a beta test in Act3/Act4, they are way less polished as they are right now than the first half of Act1 or even Act2. (What to do about it? It can be expanded by new events and a few new zones or mob types, question remains what Blizz will do about it. Diablo II was not immune to this either, if you can say with a straight face that you enjoy Act3 jungle or ActIV first two waypoints up till the Sanctuary, well....good for you!
) - PVP needs to be implemented
- Crafting was definitely underwhelming in its current state, the removal of the enchanter definitely can be felt (Blizz partially fixes this by improving lv62 weapon stats and crafted legendaries, to a certain extent, but question remains whether it is enough or not)
-The game is still barebones in its current endgame, the equivalent of Uber bosses or some kind of additional challenge rooms need to be implemented (This remains a question mark, but if they really implement a prestige system for 1.0.4, this shows that they are not afraid to be less and less rigid than they originally planned)
-Witch Doctor pets fully broken, class seems like it came from WoW and got lost in the way (at least partially getting solved)
-Some affixes plainly annoying instead of being fun (that is being looked at right now, we shall see whether 1.0.4 fully or "just" largely fixes this)
-All classes need buffs to certain skills to improve build variety (this is touched by 1.0.4, we shall see it in a few days whether it was a good enough attempt for a fix or not).
These kinds of things can be argued upon. When the majority of the players agree on these points (again: those that still play it!), Blizzard has an "easy" job, because obviously, these problems are visible, and they can be fixed.
What cannot be fixed is empty rhetoric like "the game was clearly built around the AH" (even if developers stated that they did not test it with an AH, and there was no big enough tester pool for a virtual economy to be had even for testing purposes - which is very unfortunate), "the gameplay is broken" (This is a brick wall in arguments, a simple brick wall. What do you do about it? You can bash your head against it, jump above it with a high horse or sidestep it, but you cant break it down) or "the game is no fun" (again: same. Nothing to argue about, if it is not fun for you, you obviously do not play it. Those who play it must have some kind of return from it, because otherwise they would not bother).
So how do you feel like we should argue about whether the gameplay is broken or not when the idea of a solid gameplay (or even a mediocre one) is so far removed from both the opinions of those who feel like that this is the best combat any arpg had in the past 5-8 years (like me) or those that feel like that games like Sacred, Titan Quest and others vastly surpass it (like you). There is no middle point to had, no argument to make other than the acknowledgement that both of our opinions are valid, we just simply represent different kind of tastes. Is that good enough? : )
People defending D3 with D2 patch history is just laughable at best , they made those mistakes at the time, you would think that even if it is a different team they would have learned from it when making the sequel but NO they just ignored that and made some even worse design mistakes.
Worse they implemented ideas from Wow and made the same mistakes that took them years to change in this game (like pet scaling problems)
We'll see how the patch history goes this time but they'll clearly have to rework many things from the groud if they want to make this game a worthy successor
Worse they implemented ideas from Wow and made the same mistakes that took them years to change in this game (like pet scaling problems)
We'll see how the patch history goes this time but they'll clearly have to rework many things from the groud if they want to make this game a worthy successor
Here is an easy to follow/understand post:
I'm kind of excited to see what happens with these devs, I've lost respect for them the more they've talked about Diablo 3 and it's future, now this is just the cherry on top.
Blizzard along with Bioware are probably the two most disappointing developers this gen. What a shame.
That just leaves what? Valve and Rockstar? This is just fucking great.
I've put some hope in United Front Games, so I'll wait to see how they further do things for the PC.
I'm kind of excited to see what happens with these devs, I've lost respect for them the more they've talked about Diablo 3 and it's future, now this is just the cherry on top.
Blizzard along with Bioware are probably the two most disappointing developers this gen. What a shame.
That just leaves what? Valve and Rockstar? This is just fucking great.
I've put some hope in United Front Games, so I'll wait to see how they further do things for the PC.
graywolf323
Member
Here is an easy to follow/understand post:
I'm kind of excited to see what happens with these devs, I've lost respect for them the more they've talked about Diablo 3 and it's future, now this is just the cherry on top.
Blizzard along with Bioware are probably the two most disappointing developers this gen. What a shame.
That just leaves what? Valve and Rockstar? This is just fucking great.
I've put some hope in United Front Games, so I'll wait to see how they further do things for the PC.
edited in an updated one
TheChewyWaffles
Member
After the distaster that was HGL? No.
1.0.4is cominvg out this week, D2 didn't get "stable" before 1.0.9 so we'll see who has the better track record as far as fixing the game first
It's not about "stable" - D2 wasn't fundamentally unsound before 1.0.9.
Not D3 either, atleast for me.
The negative impact the AH would have on the average player's gaming experience (due to the ease of acquiring new equipment) is the single biggest design issue in Diablo III. It was an issue for me days into the game, where I realized I really wasn't having fun because any challenge/excitement of new drops had disappeared due to the ability to just go buy upgrades every 10 levels or so. They needed to jump to bound loot.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I think any game where you have to spend money (real or fake) in order to win the endgame of it has problems. the game however, was designed that way so....
br0ken_shad0w
Member
He does come across as condenscending, but man that overraction. :lol
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
could somebody explain this joke to me?
I figured it had to do with the Matrix movies, only as far as I know all 3 were made by the same people...
Treemonkeys
Member
Paragon system...what they fuck? They are basically increasing the level cap by one hundred and they think that will make the game more fun? They are doing anything they can to avoid just making loot hunting fun, they want you to grind, and spend money on the AH it seems.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
the game was designed so that they could control all the gold farming and item selling that happened in D2. they failed anyway.
cpp_is_king
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqXltcnOMCY
This originated from the official forums but thread was deleted