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The Ten Years Decline of Sony
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Another instance of Sony's divisions working against each other. Jack Tretton blamed the PSP's UMD failure on Movie studios pushing crap content for way too much money and it hurt the system....... yet, Sony's own movie studios were making movies on UMD and this seemed to go right over Jack's head. Sony was hurting Sony yet again.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/tretton-digitally-distributed-movies-may-be-stake-in-umd-s-heart
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/tretton-digitally-distributed-movies-may-be-stake-in-umd-s-heart
Sohter.Nura
Member
Nobody will take a spot from Sony's console business. I think the future is a dedicated device that plugs to your television and provides gaming, entertainment, multimedia and all of that stuff in one box, and if Apple or Samsung attempt it, their focus will be on a machine that provides content rather than providing gaming (meaning gaming won't be the major focus of it)
blitzcloud
Banned
Can't agree with the lulzsec/sony hack thing.
Because I could possibly argue than microsoft is doing a five year's old job compared to MS with the FIFA "hack" (as in, hacked because of FIFA). I mention Microsoft because the closing thoughts mention it.
Sony took the service down, hired companies to make you feel secure, and once the service was reworked, gave free games. Due to media coverage, the data extracted really barely worked for whoever stole it.
However the fifa hack exists for a LOOONG time, and all you get is being locked away from your account because they got through their security (let it be by exploiting a certain login thing, or by exploiting the working employees).
Sony was also part of the blu-ray movement, and last gen... DVD. I think they get lots of undeserved hate, with some of it being fair enough (arrogant statements and so on).
Because I could possibly argue than microsoft is doing a five year's old job compared to MS with the FIFA "hack" (as in, hacked because of FIFA). I mention Microsoft because the closing thoughts mention it.
Sony took the service down, hired companies to make you feel secure, and once the service was reworked, gave free games. Due to media coverage, the data extracted really barely worked for whoever stole it.
However the fifa hack exists for a LOOONG time, and all you get is being locked away from your account because they got through their security (let it be by exploiting a certain login thing, or by exploiting the working employees).
Sony was also part of the blu-ray movement, and last gen... DVD. I think they get lots of undeserved hate, with some of it being fair enough (arrogant statements and so on).
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Yeah, I'm talking specifically about the console model.
I agree. There will be a market for a Mario box for a while. But I do think that within 7-8 years dedicated gaming boxes may begin to appear redundant - the kids who grew up in the internet age will be in their 20s & 30s and comfortable enough with computers and UIs will have become user friendly enough that dedicated entertainment boxes will start to look more redundant than they are already starting to.
Dedicated PC gamers will argue, but there was an appreciable ergonomic gap between home computer and home console gaming which has been bridged in recent years.
The iOS App store is a money fountain and has more software than anything else comparable. I think they're very happy with where they are - you can make a realistic case that they're already the #1 platform holder, and well positioned for the next 5-10 years.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Apple already did it, the iPad and iPod touch exist primarily as a content consumption devices. They were just able to be in a position where they didn't have to shoehorn themselves into being gaming-only. It's kind of inconceivable that they would ever want to, it would be a step back.
CadetMahoney
Member
pretty much MS doesn't seem to even be looking at portable gaming options.
grimshawish
Banned
Way to fix the gaming division at least:
- Bring the PS4 out in 2013; make it price competitive with the WiiU and its power whilst 'more' - similar. New dual shock controller and a slightly smaller pad than Nintendo's - and OLED screen.
Sorted. Seriously - sorted. Sony need too join their own enemy; get third party support between them. If 360 is the big tech jump then MS are in danger of looking out of place to common consumers as a games console, instead looking more like something for the geeks.
Mind you - maybe next gen will be more affordable on a hardware perspective. We'll see.
- Bring the PS4 out in 2013; make it price competitive with the WiiU and its power whilst 'more' - similar. New dual shock controller and a slightly smaller pad than Nintendo's - and OLED screen.
Sorted. Seriously - sorted. Sony need too join their own enemy; get third party support between them. If 360 is the big tech jump then MS are in danger of looking out of place to common consumers as a games console, instead looking more like something for the geeks.
Mind you - maybe next gen will be more affordable on a hardware perspective. We'll see.
That's pretty screwed up. It's like nobody is ever on the same page inside that company.
Right, I'm asking if you are looking at them, not Microsoft. If you want the new competition to make a gaming unit that looks something like this:
Then I agree, you aren't likely to see new entrants. If you just want more companies competing in the gaming space -- Google and Apple are competing in the gaming space now, for example -- then there can and will be replacements for Sony.
This is really only a problem if you are specifically and particularly tied to the console model as a consumer.
CadetMahoney
Member
Don't think my post gave that indication following his reply. But following that train of thought I do think Apple is in a position to become no.1 in the portable space (marketshare/sales wise). Some argue they already are in that sense.
That would be the opposite of what they've gotten ppl to expect from them traditionally. GAF seems to have an infatuation with PS4's specs being "monster level" (10x etc.) and would perish the thought it would release an moderately powered console.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
shit like this is what I can't stand, it's what makes anything other than the official Vita thread a fucking nightmare to go into
your crystal ball, can I borrow one please? I need to know the status of hoverboard technology
I guess just stick to your little padded room of delusion, then.
Yeah same here. Man.
It also contains fallacies. The comment about Sony not learning from the PS3 in regards to Vita's profitability is misleading. Vita as a product sells very close to its cost margin, they take a minimal loss per unit. Kaz's comment about Vita being profitable in 3 years is referring to net profit for the whole venture. Vita is actually a pretty well designed piece of hardware, built with a rather low-risk off-the-shelf parts.Its a far-cry from the $800+ PS3. Its the games, the price, and well everything else that is wrong with it.
Anyway overall this article seems like it took a long time and alot of work to write. I learned quite a few facts. Good on her.
EatinOlives
Member
LOL, not being convinced that Sony'll drop out of the console race by the end of next-gen is "delusional"?
And Nintendo fans are the ones crying the "nitnend00med" meme?
He made a fair prediction. That it hurts someone to even be exposed to such an opinion is telling.
Besides, I was more referring to the general attitude in the Vita thread that all is sunshine and roses.
Yes to both counts. Now, even though they aren't selling DSLRs in the same volume as Canon or Nikon, they're still extremely profitable with their Alphas and NEX lines.
And yes, 4S uses a Sony sensor.
Fabs have great returns if backed by a good engineering and R&D company. Just look at Samsung and how much their semi fabs make for their bottom line. It's a good fit given Sony's engineering history.
It's more out of necessity. x86 is a common platform, and if rumors are true, AMD will provide some sort of mixed-architecture CPU.
Its a "fair" prediction I guess, but it isn't based in anything relevant. Sony is doing great in the console market right now.
I remain unbothered. Sony has released the most new and refreshing IPs this gen. The PS3 is catching up to the 360 WW. The graphics output was beyond amazing with their exclusives. The Vita is everything I ever dreamed of. Y'all are too worried about their finances just enjoy the games
They lost a shit-ton of market share and money this generation. Great, yeah.
That doesn't address his statement. The PS3 is doing very well WW.
But their third place console has already outsold most first place consoles from previous gens. It's not like PS3 is doing awful.
Didn't Sony lose like over 45 million dollars last quarter on gaming including the PS3? I wouldn't say Sony is doing that great in the console market right now.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/sonys-game-division-loses-45-million-6389811
I definitely think they are -- the question is whether they are learning fast enough. It's similar to Nintendo's pathetically poor understanding of online; while Nintendo's online functionality has (apparently) been improving, it's chasing a moving target. It isn't as if Microsoft and Sony are standing still on their online functionality, and Nintendo simply has to catch up; if Nintendo takes 2 steps but Microsoft takes 3, then they're even father behind than they were before, even if they are "learning."
Similarly, Sony's competitors are not standing still, and are getting better. Whether Sony is catching up fast enough remains to be seen.
Yes, it is. The PS3 is the worst financial disaster in the history of the industry. It's lost more market share than any system has lost generation over generation; it is the largest absolute drop in system sales by the same metric; it's lost more money than any system ever, including the original Xbox and the Dreamcast; it is in third place in hardware sales, third place in software sales, and also last in revenue generated. By any reasonable, objective metric, the PS3 is a financial disaster.
I just deposited $200 into my bank account. Even though I'm $6,000 in debt, I'm doing great!
That's not what I meant. I'm talking about how many units it's selling. Guess you wanna deny that part. Don't know why I even bothered to come in here it's always the same crap. Peace
So we should restrict the argument to one piece of a multifaceted puzzle?
Yup. All truth. It about 3 mill diff
MightyHedgehog
Member
If Sony isn't among the top of the current class, and they aren't doing great, how is Sony?
CadetMahoney
Member
Their gaming division is making a profit, the deficit in the gaming division could be explained by PS4 R&D and a Vita launch which in normal. The problem arises if things go downhill even more in their other divisions, at what point does it have an effect on the profitable divisions? Some say it will affect things like how powerful they decide to make the PS4, whilst others say it will have no effect, but I don't see the gaming division going before their TV which is taking a big hit.
Not just on par; the PS3 has outsold the 360 the last two years worldwide. Not by a lot, of course. The 360 is still ahead LTD.
Yes, this is true. Sony's assets are so enormous that they can take on far more debt without threat of dissolution.
Sony's problems aren't just tied to the gaming division. It's also tied to multiple divisions like televisions and mobile devices.
Do you honestly have any proof for anything you just said? It's in third place by like 4-6 million units iirc. It seems to be the most healthy console WW right now.
The article just focus on Sony gaming side and engineers vs executives war, I was looking to read about their missteps in music and movies too.
for me this generation Xbox was the replacement of Playstation, if Sony go out of the console market but keep their studio like SEGA I'd be A-Ok with that, since the less systems I pay for the better.
for me this generation Xbox was the replacement of Playstation, if Sony go out of the console market but keep their studio like SEGA I'd be A-Ok with that, since the less systems I pay for the better.
Oh. That explains his entire post. Thanks man! (2010 lol)
Canis lupus
Member
I'm not sure wether PS3 lost more money than the original Xbox though, and that graph needs to include 2011 as they made a profit in that year.
Yes, I do.
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/er.html
Here is Sony's Investor briefings by quarter. You can go all the way back to well before the Playstation 3 launched. This has the revenue, earnings, and unit sales data.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/
You can find the same information for Nintendo's systems here.
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/E...s/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY12/Q4/default.aspx
Here is Microsoft's earnings releases. They are slightly less transparent and do not provide earnings for their individual divisions (including Entertainment devices division).
In other arenas, you can find information and sales of different games consoles here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console
The only systems that really come close to the PS3's drop in marketshare are the SNES and Nintendo 64. If you measured Nintendo's decline from the NES and jumped immediately over the SNES (i.e. measured their decline from NES -> N64), the total marketshare loss is greater.
SniperHunter
Banned
PS3 was a complete disaster for Sony. PS2 R&D and timeline was pretty much perfect. Looks like Kaz Kuturagi went crazy with the budget and over engineering.
EatinOlives
Member
My biggest problem with this is the online infrastructure. I'm sure as hell not paying Microsoft a dime for Live, which IMO is one of the biggest scams in gaming right now, and knowing Nintendo they'll still be far, far behind the curve.
Sony's brought in a lot of good stuff as well that I don't think would happen if they were to go third party, like funding the smaller side projects that turn out amazing. Like Demon's Souls, for instance.
So the PS3 is doing pretty well for a "disaster", isn't it ?
I was not referring to you, your posts have always been level-headed and devoid of unnecessary preconception.
I'm aware that Sony is not in a ideal financial situation though, I can't deny that even if I was a fanboy.
In terms of unit sales compared to the competitors, yes. In terms of all the other possible metrics, not really. It's those "other possible metrics" which are the problem.
I think the better way to look at it is that it wasn't so much of a marketshare disaster that it lost software support. I think this allows you to step back from the objective analysis and simply enjoy your system; it was my favorite console this generation, for example, on a personal level.
I wasn't really trying to defend myself; I was only trying to add to your point. You are correct, Sony isn't about to implode. Being as large as Sony is has its drawbacks -- they've been very slow to course correct -- but one of the advantages is that you cannot be destroyed by a few bad years. If Sony doesn't right the ship for another 5 years, maybe we can begin talking, but few companies could survive for as long as Sony can through a dry spell simply because of their enormous asset pool.
Won't be surprise if Sony pulls out of the handheld business with the way Vita keeps performing. It's doing worse than the Dreamcast did. Will be interesting to see how the PS4 does without that crazy price that the PS3 had. Microsoft/360 gain alot of market share and those people may stick with the 720p for the their next gen system choice.
Baconsammy
Banned
You need better dreams. Nice hardware doesn't mean much if it isn't matched with great software support and marketing.