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[KojiKnight]

I don't see why they couldn't do the same without introducing the Gamepad.

The thing is, I believe Gamepad will eventually end up being of little use in games and most games will be compatible with Pro Controller; but more importantly, I believe a focus on Wiimote could be more useful in a lot of more games, such as the first person genre.

I don't disagree with you on all points. You do make a valid arguement for some genres, but not all and while most games that use the gamepad would work fine on the Pro Controller it's all about options. If anything, that's what most devs have stated too that Nintendo gave them a multitude of options and they like it. Options are a good thing.

 

[walking fiend]

I don't disagree with you on all points. You do make a valid arguement for some genres, but not all and while most games that use the gamepad would work fine on the Pro Controller it's all about options. If anything, that's what most devs have stated too that Nintendo gave them a multitude of options and they like it. Options are a good thing.

Sure, but I don't believe it's important when a publisher decides whether to make a game for Wii U or not. There are neat ideas like developing RPGs with Gamepad user as dungeon master, but honestly I don't see any major RPG developer [which are mostly on PC] making a Wii U exclusive game in the near future; or the idea of it being used in Fallout and TES, but those games may not even be ported, let alone seeing if Gamepad usage would be more interesting than better graphics [or even Wiimote as the controller, considering both are first person]

What I am trying to say, is that there will be few 3rd party games that are made for Wii U but cannot be ported to HD consoles, this gen or next gen, or to a Wii HD using a Pro Controller.

Of course the same is true for Wiimote [as long as non-motion based games are considered], but at least the console could be much cheaper or powerful that way, could release earlier, and first person genre is the most popular one right now.

 

[Coolwhip]

Why would Nintendo gimp the CPU compared to the GPU?

 

[USC-fan]

Why would Nintendo gimp the CPU compared to the GPU?

So wii games would run on the console. Plus the cpu uses little power and it good enough for their performance goals and cheap.

 

[metalslimer]

Sure, but I don't believe it's important when a publisher decides whether to make a game for Wii U or not. There are neat ideas like developing RPGs with Gamepad user as dungeon master, but honestly I don't see any major RPG developer [which are mostly on PC] making a Wii U exclusive game in the near future; or the idea of it being used in Fallout and TES, but those games may not even be ported, let alone seeing if Gamepad usage would be more interesting than better graphics [or even Wiimote as the controller, considering both are first person]

What I am trying to say, is that there will be few 3rd party games that are made for Wii U but cannot be ported to HD consoles, this gen or next gen, or to a Wii HD using a Pro Controller.

Of course the same is true for Wiimote [as long as non-motion based games are considered], but at least the console could be much cheaper or powerful that way, could release earlier, and first person genre is the most popular one right now.

Nintendo's 1st party development having games ready was the deciding factor on Wii U's release. The gamepad probably had very little to do with it. We had indications the system was actually scheduled to come out this summer, but if I had to guess Nintendo saw what happened with the 3DS and pushed Wii U back to NSMBU ready for launch

 

[JordanN]

I would like to add it wouldn't be the first time a dev has incorrectly labled a console's hardware power.

There was a dev who claimed Gamecube had inferior memory to the PS2.

 

[antonz]

Why would Nintendo gimp the CPU compared to the GPU?

Its not so much gimped as it is unique and so Nintendoish. Even though Nintendo has hyped up the ease of porting that's not 100% really true. Yes you can get everything over and running pretty quickly but that's not optimal for getting the bang for the buck performance.

Quick cheap ports are going to suffer every time while ports that are given a modest budget and not rushed will do great and going forward things that are built from the ground up will do even better

 

[walking fiend]

Nintendo's 1st party development having games ready was the deciding factor on Wii U's release. The gamepad probably had very little to do with it. We had indications the system was actually scheduled to come out this summer, but if I had to guess Nintendo saw what happened with the 3DS and pushed Wii U back to NSMBU ready for launch

I am not sure if that is true, considering mainly two factors:

1. Wii U had several dev kits and apparently has gone through a lot of change
2. Wii U is NOT launching with important 1st party game anyway, excluding NSMBU which doesn't seem to be utilizing either Gamepad or the graphical power anyway

 

[Thoraxes]

"With the Wii U being new hardware, we're still getting used to developing for it, so there are still a lot of things we don't know yet to bring out the most of the processing power. There's a lot that still needs to be explored in that area."

Like it is for all hardware. For everything to look so nice out the gate already bodes well once people learn and optimize. Will be great.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

We've come a long way if Koei developers are being listened to when talking about hardware power.

 

[hachi]

I am not sure if that is true, considering mainly two factors:

1. Wii U had several dev kits and apparently has gone through a lot of change
2. Wii U is NOT launching with important 1st party game anyway, excluding NSMBU which doesn't seem to be utilizing either Gamepad or the graphical power anyway

Nintendoland? You can be sure that it's a title of the utmost importance from Nintendo's perspective, even if it hasn't quite lit the gaming web on fire.

 

[walking fiend]

We've come a long way if Koei developers are being listened to when talking about hardware power.

I won't be surprised if they are the same developer that 'previously' reported low CPU power -_-

Nintendoland? You can be sure that it's a title of the utmost importance from Nintendo's perspective, even if it hasn't quite lit the gaming web on fire.

And build around Gamepad; of course if not because of the Gamepad, it wouldn't even exist

 

[sp3000]

.

 

[Heart of Black]

And yet I had a talk one day with a friend who told me just how shitty the PS3's graphics card is that they can't populate the world as fully as on 360. So which is it?

 

[gryz]

people need to stop being so hung up on clock speed. the clock speed of a new i7 processor in a laptop is slower than the clock speed of a pentium 4. guess which one is better?

 

[TheD]

The new One Piece Game has lots of enemies and it doesn't look this bad. Warriors series reeks of being low budget so I think it's generous to say it's because it's handling alot of enemies why it looks this way. The game doesn't appear to use much (or any) shaders either.

You have no idea what you are talking about!

It clearly has shader effects all over the place!

Are all of you "clock speed doesn't matter, out-of-order, they don't know how to use it effectively" people aware that it is usually much easier to extract perfromance from an out-of-order architecture than an in-order architecture? (Do you even know what OOE is?)

I have been trying to tell people that for weeks.

 

[walking fiend]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Clock speed has nothing to do with it. In fact, out of order CPUs are much easier to program for than in order CPUs like the 360.

If anything, it should be easier to get performance out of the wii u than the 360.

You don't even have to have any idea to know that being easier to program != being easy to optimize for.

It's just common sense that unless Wii U CPU is considerably more powerful than that of 360/PS3 [which is not the case], it'll take time for developers to know how to get the most out of it.


As I have said previously, just the mere fact that Wii U CPU architecture is different than current consoles and new developers are porting their games [like AC3, BOps] to the system in a short time while being on par with other consoles, should be more than enough to know that Wii U is marginally more powerful than current gen.

Also the fact that they are looking marginally better at best, should show that Wii U can NOT be considerably more powerful than current gen.

All the other tech talks is basically bullshit and useless, because there's a very low chance that further Wii U games [in few years] look much better than the best of early efforts, and just the same very low chance that they don't look reasonably better [like comparing U3 vs U1].

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Oh no, another Wii U specs thread. But hey: new news, new thread.

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-u-with-the-developer-of-a-wii-u-launch-title

"According to Suzuki, the main issue is that developers are still wrapping their head around the CPU, and so are yet to work out how best to use it."


This was the only part of the quotes that should have been in bold but wasn't. Basically this is a non-issue and old news about the CPU being different, as in OoOE.....

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

As expected, ground up engines will (unsurprisingly) perform best and take better advantage of the hardware, producing games that exceed current generation capabilities. The hardware stuff is there for developers who have the time/budget/engineers to get good stuff out of the system.

But the CPU issues will be a concern and I am personally of the belief that even with possible work arounds Nintendo made a pretty baffling decision to do what they've done in that area. I do wonder if their insistence on Wii backwards compatibility and low power draw lead to this.

I think the thing that really brings the disappointment home when it comes to the decision is when you realize that this is it for 5 years at least....

Anyway, basically what we ready knew. Better than ps360 in all ways but CPU. But won't be nearly as good as ps4/720. But at the same time, the gap won't be as insurmountable as this generation.

/summary

 

[walking fiend]

I think the thing that really brings the disappointment home when it comes to the decision is when you realize that this is it for 5 years at least....

Anyway, basically what we ready knew. Better than ps360 in all ways but CPU. But won't be nearly as good as ps4/720. But at the same time, the gap won't be as insurmountable as this generation.

/summary

I really doubt this be true; I find it impossible for this being true yet BOps being able to played co-op on TV and Gamepad without taking a hit and run in 60fps [let alone being full HD as they claimed, though I'd say it's bullshit and it will be 720P].

 

[zoukka]

So the CPU really is worse than the current HD generation houses in...

That's depressing.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I really doubt this be true; I find it impossible for this being true yet BOps being able to played co-op on TV and Gamepad without taking a hit and run in 60fps [let alone being full HD as they claimed, though I'd say it's bullshit and it will be 720P].

I just believe it to be true because its the one rumour that had always stuck. We've been hearing that since the thing leaked. Obviously it'll get better over time for devs compared to now. But the fact that it needs work to get to the level of this gen consoles isn't so hot.

 

[JordanN]

So the CPU really is worse than the current HD generation houses in...

That's depressing.

And who knew it would come from one of the worst looking Wii U/PS3 games either?

It's like if Tetris made the N64 choke.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

So the CPU really is worse than the current HD generation houses in...

That's depressing.

If the Wii U CPU was worse than the current gen HD consoles they wouldn't have said that "developers are still wrapping their head around the CPU, and so are yet to work out how best to use it."

If it were just a lower clocked Xenon CPU, they wouldn't have to "wrap their heads around" anything would they?

 

[Teletraan1]

Its the SNES all over again. I wonder if they can bolt on super fx chips on those 25Gb optical discs.

 

[walking fiend]

I just believe it to be true because its the one rumour that had always stuck. We've been hearing that since the thing leaked. Obviously it'll get better over time for devs compared to now. But the fact that it needs work to get to the level of this gen consoles isn't so hot.

I don't care about rumours [that for all we know, may have all been from the same few sources].

What we have 'seen' is that it can run current gen games like BOps or AC3 [which have graphics better than most other multiplat games] at least on par, if not even better, with current gen console AT LAUNCH.

Unless Suzuki's team are programming geniuses, if they have hit a wall because of Wii U CPU being lower powered in fact, they are faced with a issue that cannot be solved 2 months prior to console launch if their game already requires all of the PS3/360 calculation power, unless the problem is that they don't know how to harness the power, and not in the CPU capability:

"With the Wii U being new hardware, we're still getting used to developing for it, so there are still a lot of things we don't know yet to bring out the most of the processing power. There's a lot that still needs to be explored in that area."


---
However, what which can be reasonably inferred, is that CPU 'relative' to GPU and Ram, is not a clear jump from the current gen. But this is one thing, saying it is less powerful than current gen consoles is something else.

I am not sure why it is like this, but 'maybe' they expect some calculations, like the physics, to be done using the GPU, so they thought it would make sense to make the GPU more powerful instead of the CPU. So CPU may not end up as a bottleneck.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Its the SNES all over again. I wonder if they can bolt on super fx chips on those 25Gb optical discs.

Expansion CPU Core Pack!

 

[specialguy]

If the Wii U CPU was worse than the current gen HD consoles they wouldn't have said that "developers are still wrapping their head around the CPU, and so are yet to work out how best to use it."

If it were just a lower clocked Xenon CPU, they wouldn't have to "wrap their heads around" anything would they?

You're being disingenuous. It's not either or. The Wii U CPU can be both different than Xenon and weaker.

 

[zoukka]

If the Wii U CPU was worse than the current gen HD consoles they wouldn't have said that "developers are still wrapping their head around the CPU, and so are yet to work out how best to use it."

If it were just a lower clocked Xenon CPU, they wouldn't have to "wrap their heads around" anything would they?

Well you are being optimistic about it. I kinda trust the word of actual game developers, no matter how shitty their IP is :b

They have absolutely no reason to diss Nintendo, quite the contrary.

 

[walking fiend]

Well you are being optimistic about it. I kinda trust the word of actual game developers, no matter how shitty their IP is :b

They have absolutely no reason to diss Nintendo, quite the contrary.

So you trust developers with games that look considerably worse than games like AC3 more than actual games like AC3 running on Wii U?

It's just not logical no matter how you look at it; if a system can run AC3, it should definitely be able to run a musou game [which ever of them!]

 

[TUROK]

Are all of you "clock speed doesn't matter, out-of-order, they don't know how to use it effectively" people aware that it is usually much easier to extract perfromance from an out-of-order architecture than an in-order architecture? (Do you even know what OOE is?)

This. To hint that the developers aren't familiar with an OOE architecture is asinine.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Expansion CPU Core Pack!

CPU Pack Pro: Drop in cradle for Wii U with an additional 8 core array.

And a set of analog triggers.

Comes with exclusive Wii U lapstand for extended 'hardcore' gaming sessions.

Iwata: *laughs*

 

[Terrell]

I read it and it seems to me like he's saying "clock speed is low, but it's an out-of-order CPU and we haven't seen one before, so we have no idea how to optimize games for it, but we think we can if we had more time."

This. To hint that the developers aren't familiar with an OOE architecture is asinine.

It may be easier once you use it as intended, but if you've never used one before, how are you supposed to? In-order processors are the norm in console development and the devs who have been the loudest with voicing CPU issues are Japanese developers who don't and possibly have NEVER made games on platforms that have OoO CPUs.

Riding a bike is faster than walking, and everyone knows that, but you still gotta learn to ride the damn thing first.

 

[walking fiend]

This. To hint that the developers aren't familiar with an OOE architecture is asinine.

Only if the Durante hasn't fixed a problem From software couldn't solve on PC [and not a totally new console].

Trusting a Japanese dev that is not SE, Capcom or KojiPro is the last thing that one should do when it comes to technical stuff

I read it and it seems to me like he's saying "clock speed is low, but it's an out-of-order CPU and we haven't seen one before, so we have no idea how to optimize games for it, but we think we can if we had more time."

But that should not be possible! We all know that how competent Japanese developers and specially Koei is when it comes to technical matters, more specially when it comes to a new console with architecture they haven't worked extensively before!

 

[Arla]

We have difficulty working with a new hardware, because of this we can't optimize the performance of the game. It will have bad frame rate and fewer enemies than other Warrior games. The system is obviously stronger than the 360 & PS3 so we decided to just bump up the graffix and rush it out for launch.

 

[zoukka]

So you trust developers with games that look considerably worse than games like AC3 more than actual games like AC3 running on Wii U?

It's just not logical no matter how you look at it; if a system can run AC3, it should definitely be able to run a musou game [which ever of them!]

Yeah they might be making a shitty game for sure, but the lesser CPU doesn't make the WiiU worse than the current gen as a whole if everything else is better.

But it's not going to be long for us to find out the full specs so whatever

 

[Teletraan1]

I am sure we will get some amazing games on this system but some of the responses every time this comes up are hilarious. This isn't some bullshit insider or console warrior that is posting on the internet. It is an interview with a developer. You shouldn't have to tell them to STFU about clock speeds or the differences of an OoOE processor. They already know all that and are sharing their experiences with the Wii U.

 

[Lord Error]

people need to stop being so hung up on clock speed. the clock speed of a new i7 processor in a laptop is slower than the clock speed of a pentium 4. guess which one is better?

I'm going to guess that a developer of several published games knows the difference between a slow processor and a low clocked processor, and when they say that it's slow, they don't mean the later.

So you trust developers with games that look considerably worse than games like AC3 more than actual games like AC3 running on Wii U?

It's just not logical no matter how you look at it; if a system can run AC3, it should definitely be able to run a musou game [which ever of them!]

Weren't there several reports saying that AC3 looked or ran a bit worse than the PS3 version sitting next to it on Gamescom?

 

[walking fiend]

Yeah they might be making a shitty game for sure, but the lesser CPU doesn't make the WiiU worse than the current gen as a whole if everything else is better.

But it's not going to be long for us to find out the full specs so whatever

I doubt we ever find out the full specs, and more importantly how much that can be utilized.

What I mean is that before we actually saw PS3 ports, it would be difficult to say that 360 versions would end up looking/running better most of the time [while PS3 exclusives like Beyond can look noticeably better than the best games on 360]

I'm going to guess that a developer of several published games knows the difference between a slow processor and a low clocked processor, and when they say that it's slow, they don't mean the later.

I didn't expect Durante to solve a problem From couldn't solve in like few hours after release;

And I guess "there are still a lot of things we don't know yet to bring out the most of the processing power" is a pretty clear statement.

 

[lightchris]

It may be easier once you use it as intended, but if you've never used one before, how are you supposed to? In-order processors are the norm in console development and the devs who have been the loudest with voicing CPU issues are Japanese developers who don't and possibly have NEVER made games on platforms that have OoO CPUs.

They never made games for Wii?

Besides, optimizations done for in order execution (which are quite limited anyway) shouldn't hurt OoOE usually.


edit:

I'm going to guess that a developer of several published games knows the difference between a slow processor and a low clocked processor, and when they say that it's slow, they don't mean the later.

Well, it says he is the producer. Not saying that he can't be a skilled developer as well though.

 

[zoukka]

I doubt we ever find out the full specs, and more importantly how much that can be utilized.

I think you are wrong. This is not CELL all over again, I doubt the WiiU's performance is a nut to crack for any developer out there.

I am sure we will get some amazing games on this system but some of the responses every time this comes up are hilarious. This isn't some bullshit insider or console warrior that is posting on the internet. It is an interview with a developer. You shouldn't have to tell them to STFU about clock speeds or the differences of an OoOE processor. They already know all that and are sharing their experiences with the Wii U.

Exactly.

 

[Terrell]

They never made games for Wii?

Besides, optimizations done for in order execution (which are quite limited anyway) shouldn't hurt OoOE usually.

According to some on GAF, no 3rd parties did.

And Broadway is not an OoO processor.

 

[walking fiend]

I think you are wrong. This is not CELL all over again, I doubt the WiiU's performance is a nut to crack for any developer out there.

Firstly, it is just what you 'think'.

Secondly, even 360 which is much easier to develop for, is having much better looking games now than at launch [like BOps vs CoD 2, etc.]

 

[zoukka]

Firstly, it is just what you 'think'.

Secondly, even 360 which is much easier to develop for, is having much better looking games now than at launch [like BOps vs CoD 2, etc.]

Who here is arguing that WiiU games won't improve over time? It's a completely different matter.

 

[Coolwhip]

Its not so much gimped as it is unique and so Nintendoish. Even though Nintendo has hyped up the ease of porting that's not 100% really true. Yes you can get everything over and running pretty quickly but that's not optimal for getting the bang for the buck performance.

Quick cheap ports are going to suffer every time while ports that are given a modest budget and not rushed will do great and going forward things that are built from the ground up will do even better

Making cheap ports hard to do is a very bad choice by Nintendo then.

 

[walking fiend]

Who here is arguing that WiiU games won't improve over time? It's a completely different matter.

Well, obviously that how much Wii U games can be improved over time, means that merely knowing some specs like the CPU frequency and it's base model will not determine if the CPU is less powerful than 360 or more powerful, and specially if functions that use CPU on 360 cannot be relegated to the GPU.

 

[zoukka]

Well, obviously that how much Wii U games can be improved over time, means that merely knowing some specs like the CPU frequency and it's base model will not determine if the CPU is less powerful than 360 or more powerful, and specially if functions that use CPU on 360 cannot be relegated to the GPU.

My head hurts now.

Like no-one here is doubting that WiiU is more powerful as a whole. It's just disappointing to hear, that the CPU is even in the same ballpark as the 360.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

What I took from this whole interview is that Retro's game is going to look amazing.

 

[walking fiend]

My head hurts now.

Well, considering from your obvious disposition which doesn't seem to disappear, it is expected. Review your reply:

I doubt we ever find out the full specs, and more importantly how much that can be utilized.

I think you are wrong. This is not CELL all over again, I doubt the WiiU's performance is a nut to crack for any developer out there.

Just like the PS3, Wii U architecture may require some time to be fully utilized by developers. Just knowing it's spec will not help to determine the extent that codes for it can be optimized.

Like no-one here is doubting that WiiU is more powerful as a whole. It's just disappointing to hear, that the CPU is even in the same ballpark as the 360.

Wii U ram is merely 2x current gen, if CPU is 1.5x, it can be considered in the same ballpark. What matters, is that CPU doesn't become a bottleneck;

---
These whole articles regarding Wii U performance power is sounding just like some propaganda and hit baits for media. We are ultimately arguing over whether Wii U is 1.75x more powerful than current gen or 2.25x; I don't see why it matters much when next gen is going to be like 10x more powerful anyway.

 

[lightchris]

And Broadway is not an OoO processor.

It sure is.

(If you don't believe me, a quick search for a source gave this: http://hitmen.c02.at/files/yagcd/yagcd/chap2.html)