i do, much more than you.
You appear to be avoiding everyone's responses to you.
i do, much more than you.
Ok Proof that she is promoting Tomb Raider on her Twitter in exchange for something form the SquareEnix PR team.
He even says "I"m sure she isn't" ... then why even post, if he is sure she is not guilty then why call her out? Obviously he does think she is guilty of this. That was a blatant contradiction in his article.
Ok Proof that she is promoting Tomb Raider on her Twitter in exchange for something form the SquareEnix PR team.
He even says "I"m sure she isn't" ... then why even post, if he is sure she is not guilty then why call her out? Obviously he does think she is guilty of this. That was a blatant contradiction in his article.
Ok Proof that she is promoting Tomb Raider on her Twitter in exchange for something form the SquareEnix PR team.
He even says "I"m sure she isn't" ... then why even post, if he is sure she is not guilty then why call her out? Obviously he does think she is guilty of this. That was a blatant contradiction in his article.
I still can't believe an oblivious 21-year old college student got a veteran writer fired.
noirvisage, you need to read up on this stuff before you post.
Lol did you even read the article? People have been repeating this thing for ages: Florence wasn't accusing them of corruption, but of not being self-aware of how it might look to their readers. That they didn't reflect on how much they are blurring the lines between PR and journalism.
What? He didn't say that either.
"I'm sure she isn't" does not mean "I know she isn't".
You seem to have missed the whole point of the article. That such close relationships with the PR departments can cast doubts on one's work.
He wasn't fired.
not defending her, couldn't care less about her, i'm calling him on naming names when he had no reason to in the article he was told to write, then continuing his attention seeking ways in a follow.
I still can't believe an oblivious 21-year old college student got a veteran writer fired.
What? He didn't say that either.
"I'm sure she isn't" does not mean "I know she isn't".
You seem to have missed the whole point of the article. That such close relationships with the PR departments can cast doubts on one's work.
So he is saying the issue today with "gaming journalism" is just a perception issue and not a real issue?
I want to clarify here that at no point in my column did I suggest that either Dave Cook or Lauren Wainwright were corrupt. Their public tweets were purely evidence that games writers rarely question what their relationship with PR should be. In Lauren’s case I made the point that her suggestion that it’s fine for a games writer to tweet a promotional hashtag for personal gain could make everything she tweets and writes suspect. I was saying – “Folks, be careful what you say. You might make yourself look bad.” There was nothing libellous in that column.
I think that he's just worried that if the focus remains on her then people may ignore that this is a much bigger problem. There's no way that she's the only one doing that. And some of the response that he's received over this issue shows that.
The point of the article never was to call someone out for having ties to any corporations. That's at least not what I thought when reading the article.bingo..not sure if you're being sarcastic, but that's my point.
Read the original excerpt of the article. And if you're still in doubt, read the follow-up below:
http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/
The only thing he did was show her twitter messages with the has tag and said it calls her objectivity into question. He didn't say she was a corporate shill (which she is) nor did he say she was guilty of anything merely that it called her enthusiasm for TR into question. That's not libel. He actually says that he knows people are in bed with PR and specifically makes a point to NOT name them...maybe you just need to re-read the thread
you're not gullible.. are you really?
Damage control.
Damage control.
Damage control.
What "damage" is he trying to control?
You should really sweep all this under the rug and just move on guy, you're kinda being a drama queen.you're not gullible.. are you really?
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
-- Nah, people will just laugh even harder then they already do when "game" and "journalist" are placed next to each other. Couldn't happen to a more deserving crowd of second-rate PR clowns.That's just it, there won't be any consequences of this incident and that imo is the saddest thing of all...
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
Rab's right. The focus should move away Lauren Wainwright and what happened yesterday. It was completely wrong and the criticism of her actions was completely justified, but there's not much more that can be said about it. It's moved beyond that, it's time to look at the wider issue. As he said, issues such as the role of PR people and their potential interference with games writing.
I have to talk about Lauren Wainwright. Her first reaction after the column went out was to claim the piece was libellous. Lauren is clearly a writer with many friends in the games press and in games PR. I think it is shameful, and very telling, that none of them talked her out of a course of action that could only end horribly for everyone involved. The internet is a savage thing, and these friends let her fling herself into its jaws. I feel for Lauren in a way, because I dont think shes corrupt. I said as much in my piece. I think that shes behaved how shes been conditioned to behave by her fellow writers and by her PR friends. I think she did one of the worst things one writer can do to another, but I dont think shes on the take. And her actions since, supported by people who know better, have made her a focal point for a piece that was never about her. She has faced the ugly side of these internet dramas, where people dig into your past and highlight all your mistakes. Shes faced nasty comments based on her sex and her looks, because thats what some corners of the internet do to women.
I am furious. I am furious because yesterday the games PR and marketing men flung a few people under a bus, and today theyre probably sipping drinks at the Golden Joystick awards. I am furious that some people think we should all just move on from this, allowing the PR people to get back to their narrative. I am furious that some are saying that its just games. Its not games. Its writing. And writing matters. Writing always matters.
He is clarifying what he meant as a number of people such as yourself have misinterpreted him.
Might be because English isn't my first language but everything in that article sounds like the same song he's been singing since the article was first posted. He seems a bit pissed now, though.Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
It isn't damage control when it always was exactly like this in the article.Damage control.
Even if he is telling the truth. This is still damage control.
People went nuts on Lauren as a result of his article, now he is writing a "hey take it easy guys I didn't mean it like that" article as damage control.
She's a 25/26 year old with a journalism degree and has had work published by various high-profile websites and a national newspaper. She should have known better given her experience.I still can't believe an oblivious 21-year old college student got a veteran writer fired.
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
And instantly I am suspicious. I am suspicious of this journalist's apparent love for Tomb Raider. I am asking myself whether she's in the pocket of the Tomb Raider PR team. I'm sure she isn't, but the doubt is there. After all, she sees nothing wrong with journalists promoting a game to win a PS3, right?
[...]
Standards are important. They are hard to live up to, sure, but that's the point of them. The trouble with games journalism is that there are no standards. We expect to see Geoff Keighley sitting beside a table of s***. We expect to see the flurry of excitement when the GMAs get announced, instead of a chuckle and a roll of the eyes. We expect to see our games journos failing to get what journalistic integrity means. The brilliant writers, like John Walker for example, don't get the credit they deserve simply because they don't play the game. Indeed, John Walker gets told to get off his pedestal because he has high standards and is pointing out a worrying problem.
She's a 25/26 year old with a journalism degree and has had work published by various high-profile websites and a national newspaper. She should have known better given her experience.
For the new page: Follow up article http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/
You obviously havent.Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on,
The mere appearence of impropriety is the issue here. Honestly, GAF members shouldn't be the ones explaining this to paid professionals. Google "journalism ethics".
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
Uhhh... have you not been following what has been going on, he lost his job (his choice) and is less likely to find employment in this field. He also made some enemies in the industry.
Now he is saying "Oh I didn't mean it like that".
Even if he is telling the truth. This is still damage control.
People went nuts on Lauren as a result of his article, now he is writing a "hey take it easy guys I didn't mean it like that" article as damage control.
Im guessing he is implying that Square-Enix or some higher up from MCV is involved in this, right?
I don't think damage control means what you think it means. He's not doing damage control. He stands by what he said 100%. He is asking the idiots who have gone off the chain to personally insult and demean Wainwright to cease. She should absolutely be criticised but does not deserve the sexist stuff that is being said.Even if he is telling the truth. This is still damage control.
People went nuts on Lauren as a result of his article, now he is writing a "hey take it easy guys I didn't mean it like that" article as damage control.
Personally I blame Kane and Lynch.So, the main villain is the bad part of PR people? Eidos again, like what happened with Jeff Gerstmann?
Now it feels like it's you're the one who hasn't been following this story.Even if he is telling the truth. This is still damage control.
People went nuts on Lauren as a result of his article, now he is writing a "hey take it easy guys I didn't mean it like that" article as damage control.
Even if he is telling the truth. This is still damage control.
People went nuts on Lauren as a result of his article, now he is writing a "hey take it easy guys I didn't mean it like that" article as damage control.
So, the main villain is the bad part of PR people? Eidos again, like what happened with Jeff Gerstmann?
So, the main villain is the bad part of PR people? Eidos again, like what happened with Jeff Gerstmann?
PR wasn't to blame, just idiot managers mostly.So, the main villain is the bad part of PR people? Eidos again, like what happened with Jeff Gerstmann?
Do you think Lauren acted entirely alone in pressuring Eurogamer to change my piece? Do you think she has that power? I dont. Who do you think MIGHT have that power?