• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

Status
Not open for further replies.

ghst

thanks for the laugh
May 9, 2006
15,209
0
0
London, UK
That RPS piece is just yet another example of the tired defense (used many times before) of "You take this shit too seriously".

You could almost play gamer press bingo with the responses used by various writers to defend the status quo.

"I'm incorruptible!"

"You're just jealous"

"You take this shit too seriously, let me mock you!"


Just two more to go and I've got a full line on my card, what do I win?

*I win nothing, there's no winners in this game, only losers
no it's not. stop being a righteous dullard.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Feb 4, 2012
13,071
0
585
www.youtube.com
RE: RPS Article

It was obviously written for a very specialized audience as it doesn't work for anyone but people very familiar with his RPS content. That's OK. Perhaps a mistake to post it in this thread as "RPS take on the situation" seeing as it's specialized humor for the RPS faithful, but not really worth criticising or calling funny or unfunny.
 

Victrix

*beard*
Sep 1, 2005
7,657
0
0
RE: RPS Article

It was obviously written for a very specialized audience as it doesn't work for anyone but people very familiar with his RPS content. That's OK. Perhaps a mistake to post it as "RPS take on the situation" seeing as its specialized humor for the RPS faithful, but not really worth criticising or calling funny or unfunny.
 

darkistheway

Member
May 16, 2012
3,486
0
0
Canada
I don't see why her name even needed to come out to begin with. It was rather unnecessary.
Unnecessary? It was an article about corporate shills masquerading as journalists.

Real journalists name names, provide sources. Why even write an article about the lack of journalistic integrity in the industry if you are not going to show some faces?

I don't know why you are defending her, this isn't someone writing a blog in their spare time.

Naive? In my opinion, her totally unjustified overreaction implies a certain defensive awareness of what she was doing.

Real journalists aren't allowed to collect paychecks from the companies they report on. And if they did in the past, they better fucking disclaim it loud and clear.

By the way, most of the posts in this thread have focused on the bigger picture. Specific information about her dealings in the industry is a part of that picture.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
May 9, 2006
15,209
0
0
London, UK
I honestly can't figure out what the hell that article is trying to accomplish. I really can't.
asperger RPS crip sheet, re: tim stone's article.

it's a humour piece. tim stone is rps'/uk pc gaming's famed simulator grognard beardman gamer, it's a common theme for him to make light of how unglamorous and dry his field is, the piece is an extension of this theme which satirises the current narrative.

it's complex. don't hurt your head.
you can blow out your lungs declaring how hard you didn't laugh, but that's okay. humour can do that.
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Jul 23, 2010
4,186
0
0
no it's not. stop being a righteous dullard.
Looks like I pushed a button, pavlovian response or did you actually expend any mental activity on that retort?
 

Derrick01

Banned
May 9, 2011
34,663
0
0
^ That comic is pretty misused here as they're right. If you don't read RPS a lot you won't understand what they're doing.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Feb 4, 2012
13,071
0
585
www.youtube.com
Haha. I didn't mean to suggest it should be immune to criticism, just that maybe it really isn't important enough to worry about in the larger scheme of things seeing as it is being described as just a quirky article goofing around that has apparently gone over most people's heads including mine. In that context I really don't think it's defending anything or taking the issues at hand here seriously. And that's OK. But why worry about it?

We've got bigger fish to fry.
 

Dead Man

Member
Aug 24, 2007
54,266
0
0
asperger RPS crip sheet, re: tim stone's article.

it's a humour piece. tim stone is rps'/uk pc gaming's famed simulator grognard beardman gamer, it's a common theme for him to make light of how unglamorous and dry his field is, the piece is an extension of this theme which satirises the current narrative.

it's complex. don't hurt your head.
Thanks for the clarification, you can keep the snide comments though.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
May 9, 2006
15,209
0
0
London, UK
Looks like I pushed a button, pavlovian response or did you actually expend any mental activity on that retort?
tick the box which involves you grossly misconstruing context due to unfamiliarity with the writer.

Thanks for the clarification, you can keep the snide comments though.
sorry, force of habit. if it was a single response i'd have been more measured, but my dickhead gland swelled to bursting point after reading half a page of indignation.

funnily enough, it's exactly the kind of humour that rab florence would've appreciated. god rest his soul.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
0
0
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
How exactly do the journalists get access to games in development? PR is a necessary evil.. in EVERY industry... no company is giving 100% access with no restrictions. Name me one?



Going to be very few updates on that site if you remove all the previews, trailers, and game dev news.. because you won't have any.




Did I say they can't affect you? Still they are toys.
It may be a necessary evil, but the extent to which they permeate gaming media is vastly higher than it is with other forms of entertainment media.
 

Dead Man

Member
Aug 24, 2007
54,266
0
0
sorry, force of habit. if it was a single response i'd have been more measured, but my dickhead gland swelled to bursting point after reading half a page of indignation.

funnily enough, it's exactly the kind of humour that rab florence would've appreciated. god rest his soul.
No harm done.
 

s_mirage

Member
Jan 2, 2012
2,277
17
470
asperger RPS crip sheet, re: tim stone's article.

it's a humour piece. tim stone is rps'/uk pc gaming's famed simulator grognard beardman gamer, it's a common theme for him to make light of how unglamorous and dry his field is, the piece is an extension of this theme which satirises the current narrative.

it's complex. don't hurt your head.
While the piece is obviously intended to be humourous, I would personally say that its timing is poor. RPS have yet to post a proper article on the subject and this one seems to be poking fun at one of the issues which is causing so much concern. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but without a serious article as a counterbalance it makes it look as if the site does not consider this to be a serious issue within the industry at all. That is almost certainly not what they are aiming for but it is how it can easily be percieved. This piece should have been posted later IMHO.
 

Ken Masters

Banned
Jun 24, 2007
13,850
0
0
I work in the games press in the UK (GameSpot) and know Lauren and many of the folks mentioned here relatively well. I was disgusted to hear what happened in relation to the Eurogamer article this morning, and disagree that it was the right course of action for all concerned to take. But I also think that this story is starting to grow legs and walk further from the truth.

I believe we have a case of gross nativity on her part, but the removal of her information from various websites is an understandable (though ill conceived) defensive reaction to what must be a pretty awful night of internet interest in her, her friends and her past.

I'm happy that today's actions have forced a lot of the games press over here to reconsider the way they act. Those of us who take the work seriously have a disdain for those who act like spoiled children while working in an industry we are privileged to be part of. But in relation to Lauren's PAST work - I don't believe she was fooling or attempting to fool anyone. Anybody trying to do so wouldn't post about it all on public forums, blogs or twitter. Her deleting of certain information tonight is the work of a worried person - not somebody leading a double life.
Yes, that's it. We are too naive and dumb to grasp your extremely complicated jobs, why else did you all go to medical school for it
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Mar 6, 2008
7,852
0
0
The Satellite of Love
I work in the games press in the UK (GameSpot) and know Lauren and many of the folks mentioned here relatively well. I was disgusted to hear what happened in relation to the Eurogamer article this morning, and disagree that it was the right course of action for all concerned to take. But I also think that this story is starting to grow legs and walk further from the truth.

I believe we have a case of gross nativity on her part, but the removal of her information from various websites is an understandable (though ill conceived) defensive reaction to what must be a pretty awful night of internet interest in her, her friends and her past.

I'm happy that today's actions have forced a lot of the games press over here to reconsider the way they act. Those of us who take the work seriously have a disdain for those who act like spoiled children while working in an industry we are privileged to be part of. But in relation to Lauren's PAST work - I don't believe she was fooling or attempting to fool anyone. Anybody trying to do so wouldn't post about it all on public forums, blogs or twitter. Her deleting of certain information tonight is the work of a worried person - not somebody leading a double life.
Oh my yes, let's all feel sorry for "poor, naive little Lauren" who bragged about threatening legal action against a journalist for telling the truth and tried to cover her tracks by deleting incriminating information she herself had made public. And oh yes, shame on the gaming community for causing her to be "a subject of much Internet interest" due to her own stupid, aggressive, crass and unethical behavior but never mind all the harassing e-mails and threats Robert received, right? Give me a break.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Jan 20, 2012
13,028
90
605
Wales
www.twitch.tv
It's taken me two days to read this thread.

What a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

What Florence did with that article is commendable, but perhaps a little naieve. Calling out people by name is never going to end well, even if it was not his intent. Even if it was necessary...

Lauren has come away from this badly. If she learns something from it then great. I doubt her career will be the same for her though.

I don't think any worse of EG for it. They allowed that to be published in the first place, which in my eyes is commendable. We still don't know what actually happened to them either unless I missed something.

What has Geoff have to say about all this?
I feel sorry for him to be honest.
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
Jul 16, 2008
8,291
0
0
Very nice take on the situation. I kind of agree with his conclusion. This whole mess is probably beyond repair. Game writers are only part of this humongous problem. I still would hope for at least some game journalists to re-evaluate and re-think their job ethics. I want them to stop for a moment and think about the treatment they are getting from PR. I want them to realize that true journalism means much more than being a mouthpiece for PR. I want them to think about the kind of responsibility being a reviewer is, and how can they be true and fair to their readers. That alone would be huge win for me.

But if the writers posting in this thread is any indication, they will always believe that they are incorruptible and continue doing what gaming PR want them to do.

Sean Elliot's posts illustrate very clearly why the replies of some people (including journalists) have very unpleasant implications for the future of games writing. They believe that they can stoically weather the storm of influence from PR, emerging unscathed, pure and unbiased like the superhumans they are. You are influenced by everything, and the most dangerous influence is the one you're not aware of.
For anyone who missed them:

Read these posts from fartofwar.

Post #1
Post #2
Post #3

You are just rationalizing to internally justify that your opinion is incorruptible. It is not. Even at an unconscious level.
 

crazygambit

Member
Jun 4, 2007
4,928
0
0
Publisher =/= your client

If I viewed publishers as client, I would feel like I have to "obey/serve" them, which I don't. Also, I'm pretty sure you get money out of your job. I don't get a nickle out of this, and pr gifts are not a way to "pay me". Most of them gather dust in my room.

PR gifts is only a small portion of the entire thing btw. A lot of people think it's all fun and free games, but it's not always like that. Certainly not on the site I work. There are times I have to pay for the trip myself, only to play some demo for 30 minutes and leave again. People really have a wrong vision if they think people like me get to do lavish trips every day and bathe in glorious pr gifts et cetera

Like I said, they're only a fraction of the work. We have to write news every day, check sources (yeah, we actually check those) and more. I don't get anything out of writing news, except for our site being up-to-date.

Of course, the corrupt will always stand out more and make everyone look bad. It's always been like that. I'm not defending the current gaming press system either, it could be a lot better, but I make the best out of it.

I'm not defending people like Lauren in any way btw. It just irritates me that those people make the system even worse.
You're missing the point. If in a real business you can't even accept gifts from clients , which should be OK, because it could look like impropriety, accepting gifts from PR and seeing nothing wrong with it, is delusional.
 

Lime

Member
Apr 27, 2008
26,894
0
0
Why do some people continue to claim that Florence shouldn't have named names? I mean, isn't that what a journalist has to do? Empirical data to support his claim?
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
Jul 16, 2008
8,291
0
0
I'm not a RPS reader, so the article didn't make sense to me either. However:
Oh my god the train simulator video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86PUB4u2s2A

I could watch that all day.
This was awesome. :lol

What has Geoff have to say about all this?
I feel sorry for him to be honest.
You know, I think Geoff has already given up on the ethics and integrity of the gaming journalism industry. I think he knows what he's doing, and he knows it looks bad. He just doesn't care anymore. The money is good. The fame is good. And at the end of the day, he is living a dream of every gamer kid. Why would he bother himself with this issue?
So when he sat in that chair surrounded by Doritos, Mtn Dew and a huge Halo poster, answering questions by constantly referring to how awesome Halo 4 will be. Do you really think he never thought that what he was doing was unprofessional as a journalist? Yeah, again, I think he realizes what he has become.
It's sad.
 

Eurocult

Member
Dec 13, 2009
489
0
540
Northeast USA
Hoping this whole mess separates the fakes from the reals. Would be great to get some more unbiased writers out there, not just glorified PR shills. What the hell at the doritos & dew display though. I laughed so hard. That said, I don't even hate Geoff, I always knew what I was getting from him. His style is more akin to watching entertainment tonight or something.
 

Victrix

*beard*
Sep 1, 2005
7,657
0
0
I have a hard time believing anyone who is actually making good money off this is especially sad about it. Free games, talk about games, schmooze with PR all day? Woe!

People talking solely about ethics as a motivator have a much more clear and dewy eyed view of the world than I do, that's for sure.

Without consequences or rewards, behavior isn't going to change. Internet outrage that doesn't impact advertising dollars or work relationships is neither.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Jan 20, 2012
13,028
90
605
Wales
www.twitch.tv
Why do some people continue to claim that Florence shouldn't have named names? I mean, isn't that what a journalist has to do? Empirical data to support his claim?
Because the picture of Geoff was evidence in itself. Enough to prompt the article and begin with. The claim about the Twitter promo did not need names. The picture was the entire point.
 

Mobius1

Member
Nov 2, 2011
270
0
0
Austin, TX
I feel like the total number of professional, adequately paid gaming writers in the world is rather low. And the ratio of professionals to hobby writers must be abysmal given that so many people are writing for free or for perks.

The economics of running/staffing a website are a much bigger part of this than has been discussed. If there were visible opportunities to become a respected, adequately compensated writer in the gaming media, I think it would naturally attract higher quality writers. But those positions are few and far between, so talented people are more likely to look elsewhere.

Having been a hobby writer myself, and eventually making it into the offices of one of the major U.S. websites as an intern and then a freelancer, personally I couldn't take it. The us-vs.-them mentality when it came to readers and competing sites was stupid. The fact that getting free stuff from companies caused writers to boast was ridiculous. I had my writing censored. To say nothing of all the inefficiency and wasted time, hiring of friends, etc.

Maybe the solution isn't just making sure paid writers are honest, it's about improving the self-respect of all those thousands of unpaid writers. Websites have access to this giant pool of enthusiasts who are willing to produce content with no regard for integrity or fair compensation, and not because they're bad people. They're just caught up in the excitement of being "part of the industry", at getting a peek behind the curtain, and being treated like they're special. If these people took themselves a little more seriously, if they were a little less willing to sacrifice their time and energy for a pat on the back, maybe the term "gaming journalist" would mean a little bit more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.