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[Oppo]

And that would work a CPU to death? I could understand the AI could work a CPU to death, but the GPGPU can handle that and physics. So, if you could give specific examples of what exactly could work a CPU to death that gaming applications commonly run.

You are being a little unreasonable in this request, he doesn't owe you a crash course on game programming. Also I would gently admonish you to perhaps do a little bit of research on the user you are conversing with before you go further.

From my own layperson's perspective, a GPGPU is a programmable graphics accelerator; they are specialized, that is why they are labelled thusly. Of course a CPU is the mainstay for game code, most of the fundamental systems will run there. GPGPU is not a panacea for slow CPU but rather a more flexible tool for dealing with 3D imagery. Of course everything else needs general purpose processing.

Even the PS3 vector units could only be brought to bear for specific situations, like code that can run in parallel, which certainly does not cover all instances.

 

[CorvoSol]

Holy cow, man. I don't know what anybody is talking about in this thread anymore. I got to 1/3 power and then it was all transistors and cores and GPUs and CPUs and Master Computer and NPCs and I don't know.

What does all this mean to the Joe Schmoe who doesn't know squat jack about how these machines work? How will this effect my experiences from here on out?

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Well, outside the fact that in Japan power consumption is *very* important (which I imagine is part of Nintendo's thinking) it's also supposed to be a living room device.

Do you guys have wives or girlfriends who aren't gamers? One example of many where power consumption and noise matters. The PS3 and 360 launched in a state where they were loud, noisy, unreliable, etc etc.

Current 360 slim and PS3 slim draw something like 80-95 watts gaming. The Wii U is basically a 360-ish device (give or take GPU muscle and CPU muscle of course) that draws half that at peak. It may not be yours or mine cup of tea because we're enthusiasts (my gaming PCs both draw 1000w at peak lol) but there's always a purpose to designing a small and efficient device.

I've said this before: Small, cheap, powerful. Pick 2.

Give me a break. Japan might have a legitimate reason for it but NA and EU don't.

I feel dizzy after reading this part:

Do you guys have wives or girlfriends who aren't gamers? One example of many where power consumption and noise matters. The PS3 and 360 launched in a state where they were loud, noisy, unreliable, etc etc.

Nobody cares, including casuals and non-gamers.

 

[zoukka]

Actually the PS3 fan annoys me when watching movies. So does my PC fan. I've heard that the 360 sounds like a Jet engine.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Actually the PS3 fan annoys me when watching movies. So does my PC fan. I've heard that the 360 sounds like a Jet engine.

That's fine, I'm sure the loudness is an annoyance to many people but to use it as a way to defend Nintendo's unabashed gimping of the Wii U's hardware is very disingenuous. And he also mentioned the power draw, as if that's going to add a lot of money to your electric bill. Maybe what $25-50 extra per year? C'mon...your wives and girlfriends aren't going to give a shit.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

That's fine, I'm sure the loudness is an annoyance to many people but to use it as a way to defend Nintendo's unabashed gimping of the Wii U's hardware is very disingenuous. And he also mentioned the power draw, as if that's going to add a lot of money to your electric bill. Maybe what $25-50 extra per year? C'mon...your wives and girlfriends aren't going to give a shit.

And what about those of us with electricity watching Super Gnomes?

 

[Lancehead]

Did 35 W power draw become a selling point now for WiiU? How does that change the games?

 

[Barack Lesnar]

And what about those of us with electricity watching Super Gnomes?

I must say you've grown on me quite a bit, like an acquired taste.

 

[zoukka]

That's fine, I'm sure the loudness is an annoyance to many people but to use it as a way to defend Nintendo's unabashed gimping of the Wii U's hardware is very disingenuous. And he also mentioned the power draw, as if that's going to add a lot of money to your electric bill. Maybe what $25-50 extra per year? C'mon...your wives and girlfriends aren't going to give a shit.

It's amazing how you know my girlfriend so well. She doesn't give a fuck about specs, that much I can tell you :b

 

[Reiko]

Holy cow, man. I don't know what anybody is talking about in this thread anymore. I got to 1/3 power and then it was all transistors and cores and GPUs and CPUs and Master Computer and NPCs and I don't know.

What does all this mean to the Joe Schmoe who doesn't know squat jack about how these machines work? How will this effect my experiences from here on out?

Perfect Cell= 360 CPU

Cell Junior= Wii U CPU

 

[Barack Lesnar]

It's amazing how you know my girlfriend so well. She doesn't give a fuck about specs, that much I can tell you :b

Use the 25 bucks you save on your electricity bill over the next year to get her something nice. Maybe a box of chocolate and a new shower curtain. Chicks dig that stuff, right?

 

[Box]

Holy cow, man. I don't know what anybody is talking about in this thread anymore. I got to 1/3 power and then it was all transistors and cores and GPUs and CPUs and Master Computer and NPCs and I don't know.

What does all this mean to the Joe Schmoe who doesn't know squat jack about how these machines work? How will this effect my experiences from here on out?

It means we'll have to wait a while longer before we get anything conclusive.

This has been going on for a long time now. A lot of people think they know what the Wii U's power is and what it means for graphics and framerates and third parties and ports and whatnot. Some of them are going to be right and they'll gloat about how they knew it all along. But we don't have to play that game and choose who to believe and who not to believe, we just have to wait for the answers that will become apparent eventually.

 

[StevieP]

Give me a break. Japan might have a legitimate reason for it but NA and EU don't.

I feel dizzy after reading this part:

Nobody cares, including casuals and non-gamers.

I didn't say I care. In fact I said the opposite, and also said there are people that care. Selective reading much?

That's fine, I'm sure the loudness is an annoyance to many people but to use it as a way to defend Nintendo's unabashed gimping of the Wii U's hardware is very disingenuous. And he also mentioned the power draw, as if that's going to add a lot of money to your electric bill. Maybe what $25-50 extra per year? C'mon...your wives and girlfriends aren't going to give a shit.

Unabashed gimping? It's being sold at a per unit loss - I'm sure any hardware designer could've given you a profitable machine with that hardware power if they didn't have a TDP ceiling of 50w to work with. Priorities were obviously different for the ones that designed this console. You're ratcheting up the troll a little bit more than usual. The console is what it is. A tiny, diminuitive gaming computer capable of rendering mostly 720p content (along with a 480p second screen) and displaying it on your 1080p HD TVs.

I can also personally assure you many people give a shit about loud obnoxious living room devices. It's not a selling point for me, granted. Nothing would be a selling point for you, obviously. But small form factor electronics is a large market segment. You're being dismissive and painting me as something I'm not just because the Wii U isn't the type of console you or I might prefer. I would suggest that you don't speak for others.

 

[Oblivion]

http://www.abloa.de/img/super_perfect_cellsao7f.jpg[/MG]

Perfect Cell= 360 CPU


[IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/cell_jr._budokai_tenkwfom5.jpg[/MG]

Cell Junior= Wii U CPU[/QUOTE]

Now is that Perfect Cell before or after he blows himself up and regenerates?

 

[fallagin]

Now is that Perfect Cell before or after he blows himself up and regenerates?

Maybe after goku gives cell a sensu bean, after he explodes he has ultimate power which gohan is barely able to beat. Gohan is like what wiiu should have been.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I didn't say I care. In fact I said the opposite, and also said there are people that care. Selective reading much?



Unabashed gimping? It's being sold at a per unit loss - I'm sure any hardware designer could've given you a profitable machine with that hardware power if they didn't have a TDP ceiling of 50w to work with. Priorities were obviously different for the ones that designed this console. You're ratcheting up the troll a little bit more than usual. The console is what it is. A tiny, diminuitive gaming computer capable of rendering mostly 720p content (along with a 480p second screen) and displaying it on your 1080p HD TVs.

I can also personally assure you many people give a shit about loud obnoxious living room devices. It's not a selling point for me, granted. Nothing would be a selling point for you, obviously. But small form factor electronics is a large market segment. You're being dismissive and painting me as something I'm not just because the Wii U isn't the type of console you or I might prefer. I would suggest that you don't speak for others.

Who are you trying to kid, man? Seriously. No amount of politically correct responses are going to change the fact that you're disingenuous. If the 720 or PS4 were announced with a similar configuration you'd be yelling from the rooftops about how you were right and how people should be eating crow, certainly NOT trying to rationalize their decision like you are here with Nintendo.

Why are you trying to come off unbiased in the first place? You can repeat that "95% of my gaming is on PC" statement a hundred more times and it wouldn't change a thing. Literally all of your posts on this forum are defending Wii U in some manner and this last one takes the cake because the amount of NA and EU consumers that would give a shit about saving $25 a year on their electricity bill or several square inches in their entertainment center or having a quieter machine are tiny... the amount of people that would use those factors as a reason to pass on the console is insignificant, and you know this, but it doesn't fit your argument.

I don't need a survey of prospective buyers to figure that out, it's obvious. It's a completely insignificant market segment for the NA and EU territories. Japan might be a different story, but Japan is also the smallest of the three major console markets now so this is why people are questioning Nintendo's decision to go this route. It makes no sense except on an ultra cost-saving, cheaping out basis. Why defend or spin this in any facet? It's terrible.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I must say you've grown on me quite a bit, like an acquired taste.

Or a fungus!

 

[LeleSocho]

Now is that Perfect Cell before or after he blows himself up and regenerates?

After, you can see it from the thunders and the pose.

 

[StevieP]

Who are you trying to kid, man? Seriously. No amount of politically correct responses are going to change the fact that you're disingenuous. If the 720 or PS4 were announced with a similar configuration you'd be yelling from the rooftops about how you were right and how people should be eating crow, certainly NOT trying to rationalize their decision like you are here with Nintendo.

I was the first to admit my mistake on 8GB of DDRx vs the 2GB of GDDR5 I thought was going into the other next gen systems. I'm not yelling from any rooftop.

Why are you trying to come off unbiased in the first place? You can repeat that "95% of my gaming is on PC" statement a hundred more times and it wouldn't change a thing. Literally all of your posts on this forum are defending Wii U in some manner and this last one takes the cake because the amount of NA and EU consumers that would give a shit about saving $25 a year on their electricity bill or several square inches in their entertainment center or having a quieter machine are tiny... the amount of people that would use those factors as a reason to pass on the console is insignificant, and you know this, but it doesn't fit your argument.

Out of all the consoles I own (including Sega consoles, MS consoles, Nintendo consoles, and Sony consoles) I play the Nintendo ones most. Their "core" first party titles interest me most (though I'm a sucker for Zelda titles and 2D platformers from my youth). But that doesn't mean I play on the consoles a lot. The overwhelming majority (to the tune of 95%+) of my gaming is indeed done on my PC because I always like to have the best versions of multiplatform titles and I always want to play with the most accurate control schemes, along with a constant 1080p/60 with the highest graphical settings possible, where possible. The few that didn't get ported this generation are on the PS3. If you stalk me as much as I think you do, you can read all about that in my post history by clicking "find all posts" and reading about how I think the Wii U gamepad is actually a step *down* from the Wii remote both in accuracy (dual analog is shit) and consumer interest, and how I do not believe the hook will be anywhere near as successful.

As far as the Wii U goes - I didn't say power consumption and small form factor are something that *I* care about. However for many, it *is* a selling point. Just as with Wii, Nintendo obviously set a hard line in TDP and stuck to it - they are a Japanese manufacturer, after all, and the push for lower power consumption is a long time cause there. I don't necessarily agree with it (for instance, I would've rather had a 100w console than a 50w console) but I would suggest that you don't speak for others.

I don't need a survey of prospective buyers to figure that out, it's obvious. It's a completely insignificant market segment for the NA and EU territories. Japan might be a different story, but Japan is also the smallest of the three major console markets now so this is why people are questioning Nintendo's decision to go this route. It makes no sense except on an ultra cost-saving, cheaping out basis. Why defend or spin this in any facet? It's terrible.

Ultra cost saving? Who's spinning? They're selling it at a per-unit loss. Is this what you derail the thread for?

 

[i-Lo]

No developer under a big name publisher can afford to burn bridges with Nintendo. No wonder all the backtracking is happening. The data and its objective interpretation will be all most devs will give you. Any criticality of the HW as an article or speech most likely would be succeeded or preceded by something tantamount to, "The views expressed here exclusively belong to person X and have no connection with developer/publisher Y".

Do you guys have wives or girlfriends who aren't gamers? One example of many where power consumption and noise matters. The PS3 and 360 launched in a state where they were loud, noisy, unreliable, etc etc.

Wow, is this what is being used as justification for rationalising Nintendo's strategy for going to for low power consuming console..?!

Never'd have imagined that I'd read this from you, mate. Reads like a page out of "Insert console" defence force. Guess everyone has his/her limit before insecurities start to crack in.

 

[Darryl]

because the amount of NA and EU consumers that would give a shit about saving $25 a year on their electricity bill or several square inches in their entertainment center or having a quieter machine are tiny... the amount of people that would use those factors as a reason to pass on the console is insignificant, and you know this, but it doesn't fit your argument.

I agree that this probably isn't a major issue right now but you'll never know when these concerns start to pop up. A single male in his 20s or 30s might not care, but a family who is interested in cutting costs might. A 200W system (assuming that's what a competitor uses, no clue whatsoever) vs a 35W sounds very significant on paper when you plan out having it on for a large portion of the day.

 

[Like the hat?]

I really like the fact that Wii and Wii u use a low amount of electricity, and it makes me feel better about playing them for a longer period of time compared to playing say my 60gb ps3 for the same length of time. It's not a selling point, but it's definitely appreciated.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I really like the fact that Wii and Wii u use a low amount of electricity, and it makes me feel better about playing them for a longer period of time compared to playing say my 60gb ps3 for the same length of time. It's not a selling point, but it's definitely appreciated.

I'm grateful as well that it barely draws any power. One could say that being underpowered is a blessing.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm grateful as well that it barely draws any power. One could say that being underpowered is a blessing.

Well fuck if it's going to be a really underpowered next-gen system, at least it's not going to be costing you much money on the electric end.

What if it was weak and jacked your electric bill by... dollars?

I'm sorry but yes I am an American and I like my things big. If I'm going to have something big I want it screaming pain big. Like Assplitter big.

I mean I still like those Nintendo games... but if Watch_Dog's is a launch Durango or Orbis game? Completely side-stepping that WiiU class hardware?

I'm definitely going to be buying one of them.

There's still a tech whore in here. Even if at one point he thought Nintendo might at least try to hit a level above the 360/PS3. Or that they had any intention of helping 3rd party devs in a significant way. Especially when offering... interesting hardware.

But either those engines couldn't hit parity by launch of the platform (and that's probably on Nintendo and their historically bad documentation), or there is a power deficit. A power deficit with the 360 and PS3.

That is mind-numbingly mind-boggling. I mean even the idea that it can't run current gen engines well. I figured given some time, and what I thought were the minimum specs launch titles would at least hit a degree of stability.

Well then we figured out the memory bandwidth. And pretty much any improvements in the design overall, even taking into account the reports that the CPU was lacking were immediately slowed to a crawl.

That's one hell of a limitation for a platform supposedly intended to be supported by 3rd parties for a generation. Give them at the minimum (barring future delays in OS efficiency) 1 gig of RAM usable for games... but make it unbelievably slow. You have space, but no speed. That...

I mean yikes. Just yikes.

I could rant all day about the insanity of the design. I mean unless purple Pikmin are hidden away in that eDram pool this thing may always struggle to run engines not intended for it. Always be limited to certain degrees of titles on the PS3/360. There may be improvements in other arenas.

But the only way we are likely to ever see it is if the dev has a singular focus on the platform. If it's all they know.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

You're a 'Murican, TM? I figured you were one of those wacky Brits.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You're a 'Murican, TM? I figured you were one of those wacky Brits.

Crazy woman trapped in a man in a monkey socialist from Kansas actually.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Girlfriends and Wives....the damage controlling is hilarious in this thread

 

[MDX]

Girlfriends and Wives....the damage controlling is hilarious in this thread

Everyone knows women run the household

 

[chertipros]

Girlfriends and Wives....the damage controlling is hilarious in this thread

LMAO! it was definitely the highlight of this thread

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Someone should start a thread: "How would you realistically redesign the Wii U?"

 

[i-Lo]

Someone should start a thread: "How would you realistically redesign the Wii U?"

Ask your wife or girlfriend.

 

[deviljho]

Give me a break. Japan might have a legitimate reason for it but NA and EU don't.

I feel dizzy after reading this part:

Nobody cares, including casuals and non-gamers.

You've made 3-4 posts on this page of this thread claiming to know what other people, women in particular, want in their living spaces. So I'll just leave this here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42372182&postcount=379

 

[Skyzard]

^ harsh

Give me a break. Japan might have a legitimate reason for it but NA and EU don't.

I feel dizzy after reading this part:

Nobody cares, including casuals and non-gamers.

I think it is also quite important for EU / NA but MOSTLY due to the gamepad's off screen play (when you don't want to turn the tv on etc and want to use it as a handheld) ... you'd feel bad running a 200 watt handheld system And let me tell you EU (UK) gas/electricity prices are bloody high these days.

edit: besides they can't exactly make a different version.... hmm

 

[freddy]

You've made 3-4 posts on this page of this thread claiming to know what other people, women in particular, want in their living spaces. So I'll just leave this here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492365

That thread is fucking hilarious. Sorry, Heavy.




Lol..

 

[Thunder Monkey]

God some of you guys are just perpetually assholes.

 

[chertipros]

You've made 3-4 posts on this page of this thread claiming to know what other people, women in particular, want in their living spaces. So I'll just leave this here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42372182&postcount=379

sweet jesus

 

[Valnen]

Going to suck when Orbis and Durango games can't be ported. The thing can barley handle PS3/360 games. Why did Nintendo have to fuck up again in the hardware area?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Going to suck when Orbis and Durango games can't be ported. The thing can barley handle PS3/360 games. Why did Nintendo have to fuck up again in the hardware area?

Because it was enough for them and why the fuck are people asking those questions?

Is it not enough for them? Because it is for Nintendo.

Any interest in garnering large 3rd party loyalties was just PR bunk. At best they might get some indies to go "Hell that's more powerful than the iphone."

 

[deviljho]

Going to suck when Orbis and Durango games can't be ported. The thing can barley handle PS3/360 games. Why did Nintendo have to fuck up again in the hardware area?

What you are saying is the people at Nintendo sat down, looked at all the available tech and upcoming tech, and made a conscious decision to make ports impossible.

Do you really think Nintendo is that dumb? It may be the case that porting is difficult or that the Wii U will get a limited set of ports. But do you really think they would actively choose to shut that door themselves?

Any interest in garnering large 3rd party loyalties was just PR bunk.

This is sad. I definitely was one of the people who had this expectation, justifiable or not. But there is no harm in waiting to see how it plays out over the next few years.

 

[freddy]

God some of you guys are just perpetually assholes.

Loosen that fig and have a scoob, my good monkey. It's the weekend where I am.

 

[pieatorium]

Because it was enough for them and why the fuck are people asking those questions?

Is it not enough for them? Because it is for Nintendo.

Any interest in garnering large 3rd party loyalties was just PR bunk. At best they might get some indies to go "Hell that's more powerful than the iphone."

I remember us talking about this 6 months or more ago, agput how WiiU won't be on the same plane as the other next systems but how there was no way they would leave themsevles with a Wii situation as far as too weak for multiplat developement. Kind of weird to think about.


They might not even be able to say that about the iPhone next year or so heh

 

[Valnen]

Because it was enough for them and why the fuck are people asking those questions?

Is it not enough for them? Because it is for Nintendo.

Any interest in garnering large 3rd party loyalties was just PR bunk. At best they might get some indies to go "Hell that's more powerful than the iphone."

No third party support for multiplatform games = no money from me. Not until I can get the system for like $150. If Nintendo isn't interested in making a system powerful enough to handle the games developers want to make then they're not worthy of anyone's money.

 

[Meelow]

Going to suck when Orbis and Durango games can't be ported. The thing can barley handle PS3/360 games. Why did Nintendo have to fuck up again in the hardware area?

If it's true about the Wii U having similar architecture to the PS4/720 it shouldn't be too much of a problem I do think the Wii U will miss out on multiplats but not as bad as the Wii for sure, and if the Wii U is selling well that could also help it.

 

[StreetsAhead]

No third party support for multiplatform games = no money from me. Not until I can get the system for like $150. If Nintendo isn't interested in making a system powerful enough to handle the games developers want to make then they're not worthy of anyone's money.

Yet you're still willing to buy it. Don't you have standards? Think of the developers! They must limit their creativity on the Wii U.

 

[Vagabundo]

I'm sorry but yes I am an American and I like my things big. If I'm going to have something big I want it screaming pain big. Like Assplitter big..

lol I'm from the EU and I like efficient things.

I'm probably that customer that the Wii U is aimed at; I do like that it has a small power draw, is a tiny machine, I do have a wife that hogs the main TV.

I'm not that bothered by the spec TBH.

So @Heavy I'm probably that customer that StevieP is talking about.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Loosen that fig and have a scoob, my good monkey. It's the weekend where I am.

I'm sorry it's just everyone on every side is being an ass.

I mean you just tried to humiliate a young man over the internet because of an argument about WiiU power usage and it's relevance/irrelevancy.

Heavy can be prickly, but this crap is just getting grating. Just start being adults discussing videogames on the internet instead of confirming long held stereotypes of manchildren with self-esteem issues.

I like most of you guys here, but why the hell do I have to be the one telling you to act like adults when instead I could be lathering some faceless stranger up in scented oils?

 

[farnham]

What you are saying is the people at Nintendo sat down, looked at all the available tech and upcoming tech, and made a conscious decision to make ports impossible.

Do you really think Nintendo is that dumb? It may be the case that porting is difficult or that the Wii U will get a limited set of ports. But do you really think they would actively choose to shut that door themselves?



This is sad. I definitely was one of the people who had this expectation, justifiable or not. But there is no harm in waiting to see how it plays out over the next few years.

Truth is third parties are a competition for nintendo as they make a lot of money on software...they can limit the penetration of the competition on the overall market through making it harder to port games on wiiu

 

[sp3000]

If it's true about the Wii U having similar architecture to the PS4/720 it shouldn't be too much of a problem I do think the Wii U will miss out on multiplats but not as bad as the Wii for sure, and if the Wii U is selling well that could also help it.

Where does this idiotic rumor keep starting

Almost nothing is known about their architecture other than it is x86 and at least one of the consoles will be using a variant AMD's Piledriver. This is vastly different from PowerPC based architecture in the WiiU, Xbox 360, and PS3.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Where does this idiotic rumor keep starting

Almost nothing is known about their architecture other than it is x86. This is vastly different from PowerPC based architecture in the WiiU, Xbox 360, and PS3.

I didn't help.

That was when I was under the impression that there was more under the hood than half of the memory bandwidth of current gen platforms. Not insurmountable, but big limitation.

 

[deviljho]

Truth is third parties are a competition for nintendo as they make a lot of money on software...they can limit the penetration of the competition on the overall market through making it harder to port games on wiiu

While I agree with this point in principle...

1) It seems to be working out for their handheld business
2) fewer "hardcore" multiplatform games will limit overall console sales (and thus total software sales)
3) I wouldn't say that Nintendo's brand recognition is diminishing, but it is slowly changing, and I'm not sure it is changing for the better.
4) Limiting content is not a good long term strategy.