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[Stumpokapow]

What is honest to-goodness piracy? Are you referring to the open source community and content makers who use torrents to distribute their products?

give me a break.

Edit: It occurs to me you might not be familiar with the expression "honest-to-goodness" especially if English is not your first language. It means "real". I meant "There's enough real, actual piracy that you don't need to worry about edge cases like this."

 

[Zoe]

Morally you should be buying two copies of the game. What you would be doing is no better than keeping the copy after you no longer have access to the original.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

What is honest to-goodness piracy? Are you referring to the open source community and content makers who use torrents to distribute their products?

I don't think we need to outline this in crayon do we?

 

[BlazinAm]

give me a break.

I wasn't trying to attack you or call you out but those were the only two examples I could think of in the context of gaming.

Never heard of the "honest to goodness" term/phrase sorry.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I wasn't trying to attack you or call you out but those were the only two examples I could think of in the context of gaming.

See my edit above--if you didn't know the expression "honest-to-goodness", I apologize for getting snippy.

 

[BlazinAm]

See my edit above--if you didn't know the expression "honest-to-goodness", I apologize for getting snippy.

all good.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Piracy is still piracy dude.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

What is honest to-goodness piracy? Are you referring to the open source community and content makers who use torrents to distribute their products?

I think he outlined his point as well as I did. And sorry for posting this again but I have more context to bring and a new post may serve better but I digress......

He can be eloquent but I want to be simple and clear, I think it's wrong to do something similar to what the TC mentioned. You can't circumvent these things by using the fact that you own a copy and then use that as an excuse to bastion pirating a game because you don't want to open it.

In the end, you're supporting the developer but until we see and individual case by case breakdown, I am willing to side with the ones who will play dirty and sell that game for full price thus exploiting the system.

A small example, say you are hyped for a game and buy it on hype because you're naive and ignorant and can't make up your own mind on which games to buy. You purchase AAA game for 60 and are having second thoughts. You then decide to pirate the game because you want to try it and really see if you like it and your money was well spent. You end up beating the game and seeing it as a value proposition but ultimately end up returning it for a full refund. Or you sell the sealed copy for 15-20% off retail and make a little bit out of it. Now that you legally don't own the game, will you be honest enough to delete your pirated copy? Or even for the sake of adding more, you simply don't like the game and take it back for full refund. The intent of piracy is still the same at the core. Do not use it as a springboard to make the reasoning of doing it in any way valid.

Maybe I'm not being clear but if you're willing to go to the extent of downloading an illegally distributed game then you have thrown away a certain amount of rights by taking that particular road. And this is just assuming that you are doing it for the purposes stated in the OP. This can take on a kaleidoscopic of different flavors and scenarios. And it's not out of this world. This kind of stuff happens with the millions of games sold monthly.

 

[KojiKnight]

DMCA says you're allowed to have a legal backup of your OWN copy. It is 100% illegal to download or make/use a copy of something that is not your own.

Even if it's a copy of the same game, if you didn't make the copy yourself from your disc, it's illegal. DMCA is VERY clear on that (which is why any website hosting roms for "backup" purposes is total bullocks and would not, and has not ever held up in court).

As for morally wrong... If you have to ask if something is morally wrong, it probably is.

 

[rCIZZLE]

what if I bought the ps3 version of skyrim And then pirated the pc version?

How should I feel?

According to always-play-by-the-rules GAF? You're not better than a murderer. To everybody else? They'd say you're doing enough by even buying a copy in the first place.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

According to always-play-by-the-rules GAF? You're not better than a murderer. To everybody else? They'd say you're doing enough by even buying a copy in the first place.

That's a whole different beast in certain ways. In the end, you bought the PS3 version but that doesn't buy you right to legally own the PC version.

I agree with your moral point on the PS3 version of that game (if this is what you were eluding to). If you are ignorant enough to ignore the flaws of that game and want to use it as an excuse or safety net to say you have rights to the PC version by way of piracy then you aren't that smart (and that's me being kind). Obviously Beth has treated that version poorly. Maybe some of it wasn't their fault but that doesn't give a free pass to downloading the PC version because one doesn't research their facts enough to know that is the worse version.

If you're going to even think about going that far then you should just rent the game and return it after 5 days. Spend enough time with it then make your mind up. On PC, I realize that can be hard with lack of demos on some games and cd-keys/drm. The system is built this way for a reason though and on PC, it's way to easy to get your hands on games of any kind, let alone PC games via piracy.

 

[kittens]

I don't get it. Why would the OP buy two copies? That makes zero sense to me. He already bought one copy, thus paying into having the rights to play the game. He can pirate the game for private use all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

you have my blessing op. do whatever you want

 

[rCIZZLE]

I don't get it. Why would the OP buy two copies? That makes zero sense to me. He already bought one copy, thus paying into having the rights to play the game. He can pirate the game for private use all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

Probably a collector. Not that it's very relevant with current games but I can see someone buying a sealed older game and then downloading a copy for use.

edit: Of course this is probably illegal but I have trouble seeing this as a big moral issue.

 

[goldenpp72]

It's not legal, there is nothing immoral about it. While I have never pirated a game, I could see the logic of wanting to preserve your collection while experiencing the game, that would be less than 1 percent of the market though i'm sure.

 

[Zoe]

I don't get it. Why would the OP buy two copies? That makes zero sense to me. He already bought one copy, thus paying into having the rights to play the game. He can pirate the game for private use all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

He doesn't have the ability to make use of his copy until he opens it.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Legal? No.

Moral? I don't know, since morality is relative, but it wouldn't bother me to find out someone else did that. (Not that such behavior would make any damn sense.)

 

[Arksy]

It's an open question as to the legality in Australia.

(Read: It's probably not legal but the question of law has not been sufficiently settled yet).

 

[Coins]

Hmmm. I thought it was a couple of silly questions until I realized when I buy a Marvel comic or a DC comic in paper form I always just download it from somewhere so I can bag and board the paper comic. I'm a collector and spend about 220 a month on comics and cringe when I touch a page. I don't do it for resell value, I'm just anal.

Is what I'm doing any different? I don't know.

 

[Rubius]

Morals are something that do not exist except for you. By example, for mayans, it was the moral thing to do to kill virgin women. Serial killers also have different morals about killing people, ect.

For the law part, I dont think so. Piracy is illegal, that you own the product or not. I know that in the US they are pretty anal about that, where in Canada, piracy is not really ran after. Never heard of a piracy raid, outside of bootlegger or Child Pornography in Canada.

 

[Sojgat]

The word "pirate' is right there in your question.

 

[Palette Swap]

Is it legal? It depends on where you live I guess but probably not. That said, it doesn't seem particularly enforceable to me: in a world where every day millions of people download stuff they have no claim whatsoever to, I think the guy who doesn't unwrap his game and downloads it instead is very low on anyone's priority list. Not to mention going after him will probably cost society as a whole way more than whatever damage he's done.

Morally, I have little qualm with it. If everyone did that, the market would be ruined but I really don't see a lot of people going through these hoops. Hell, look at this thread, half the people who answered don't even see the point.
Also, in the case of supply constrained games, typically out of print games, a resell would have zero footprint on the market.

Is what I'm doing any different? I don't know.

Not really. Yet you aren't exactly destroying the comic market.

 

[GoofsterStud]

For those that don't understand why someone might do this.

The main reason to avoid harmful DRM or DRM that causes conflicts with your computer settings.

The thing is, if you buy a game and can't play it due to SECURUM DRM, you might just install a pirated version instead that is DRM free.

:-/

It's a hassle to have to check for DRM before purchasing titles, but to avoid the gray area I do my research, and if there is a hint of DRM beyond Steam or Windows Live, I will just do without, or buy the game on a console used (so the developer doesn't get a dime).

I'm bitter

 

[Kenai]

I can't say. I think that's it's pretty shady to do so since 90% of the people doing that would only be doing so to resell it at maximum profit but have less guilt about the pirating since they still "bought it". Otherwise they'd just buy digital copies or open it to directly rip the game.

Personally if I like a game enough to leave it sealed with no intention of ever opening it, I'd buy a second copy. I've only done that a couple times though (CEs).

 

[BocoDragon]

What if you buy a game, rip it, and then sell it? Is it retroactively piracy?

(lol this is like software pirate philosophy)

 

[Ranger X]

It's indeed not legal and I wonder how moral questions about it can pop. It's not because you bought X item that it gives a "steal card" to get more of that item. It still is stealing and as morally good as its legal.

 

[Dion Blaster]

It's probably illegal but you probably won't get caught. That's usually a pretty good answer for any piracy questions.

 

[moniker]

It's definitely illegal, but is morally acceptable (by my standards).

 

[Eusis]

Given the preponderance of actual, honest-to-goodness piracy in the world, it seems to me like trying to engage in hand-wringing worry about the marginal morality of edge case actions like this is wasted emotional effort, especially given the fact that no legal sanction would ever be taken on this basis.

But I would note that by opening something, you "use" it and reduce the value. By keeping it sealed, it retains full value. So part of ownership rights is deciding between keeping something pristine and being able to fully use it. So clearly by scamming the system this way you are making an active decision to circumvent the intended effect of usage--reducing value of the product. If you absolutely must insist on having an answer on whether this is the "right" thing to do, let this inform your thinking.

Admittedly in this (insane) case there IS a trade off: you keep your copy of Halo 4 sealed, but something that is at least half of the game (the multiplayer) is walled off. However, if you open it then you gain full access, even if you can't resell it for an insane amount decades later on the novelty of still being sealed.

But this obviously doesn't apply as strongly to single player games, especially ones without DLC of any sort like Xenoblade.

 

[vareon]

If you want to apply something like translation patch, I think it's OK.

If you just want to keep a sealed copy, buy two.

 

[Vaporak]

He doesn't have the ability to make use of his copy until he opens it.

...Why? That's some weird technical limitation, not a legal or moral one.

 

[Fredrik]

DMCA says you're allowed to have a legal backup of your OWN copy. It is 100% illegal to download or make/use a copy of something that is not your own.

Even if it's a copy of the same game, if you didn't make the copy yourself from your disc, it's illegal. DMCA is VERY clear on that (which is why any website hosting roms for "backup" purposes is total bullocks and would not, and has not ever held up in court).

As for morally wrong... If you have to ask if something is morally wrong, it probably is.

So running a NES/SNES/MD etc emulator on a homebrew channel is 100% illegal, and perma-bannable on this board, if you're not creating your own ROMs from your own physical copies?

I thought everyone just downloaded ROM collections, and that it was okay to do so, since many emulator lovers seems to have every game known to man in possession.
But they're all owning these games physically too?

That's quite impressive. Some of those games are super expensive today. I tried to collect all my favorite SNES games a few years ago but gave up quite fast after realizing that it would cost me like $1000 or even more. :/

I started hoarding VC games instead. It's not quite like having physical copies but they're all emulated to perfection so it's okay. Only thing I wish for right now is a faster way to get to them on WiiU. They're stupidly hidden away in the weird Wii Menu closet right now for no logical reason. Having them directly on the WiiU menu with Miiverse communities and all would be the most logical thing to do, which means it will never happen :/

Edit: sorry for going off topic

 

[Jonnyram]

...Why? That's some weird technical limitation, not a legal or moral one.

There's nothing technical about breaking a seal on something new. Are you insane?

 

[DDayton]

He doesn't have the ability to make use of his copy until he opens it.

Hmm... so we're establishing the arbitrary guideline of "unsealed is ownership," eh?

So... what if he bought his copy from Gamestop, and it was a gutted display copy? How does that work into this?

Spoiler

Yes, I understand the legal issues - I'm not sure what the ethical problem is with someone using a digital copy instead of the physical one. If it's due to the letter of the law, I understand; if it's due to encouraging others to pirate, I understand; I don't think I get the "it's wrong to play without opening your copy." Why does the package condition factor into this?

 

[zsidane]

The example in OP is a no for me. However I don't see a problem for me to download F Zero GX or Ikaruga because I want to play them on emulator and I'm lazy and/or want to see them in 1080p (while I own both of them).

 

[DarkKyo]

I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[dose]

Just to clear up some misinformation here, in the UK (not sure where the OP is from) it is legal to backup a game.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/50A
Obviously you do have the problem of circumventing the DRM though, which I think is illegal lol :/

 

[Weltall Zero]

There's actually another reason for ripping them out, and that is for the sake of convenience. This is most prevalent in the case of handheld consoles, especially "older" ones like the DS which can "legally" only hold one game at a time, yet with a flash cart it can hold many and switch between them hassle-free.

As convenience goes up (with new consoles, even handhelds, offering downloadable versions of most if not all games), this will hopefuly start to become a non-factor.

 

[michaelius]

what if I bought the ps3 version of skyrim And then pirated the pc version?

How should I feel?

I'd feel perfectly fine in this case.

 

[Gintamen]

i think its makes the uploader feel that he isn't doing something illegal.

It's points out that the uploader knows it being illegal, not just feel like it. Like here is a full version, a demo with full content, but buy it it if you like. Still illegal.

 

[Fredrik]

The example in OP is a no for me. However I don't see a problem for me to download F Zero GX or Ikaruga because I want to play them on emulator and I'm lazy and/or want to see them in 1080p (while I own both of them).

Apparently it's illegal (might be bannable too, don't know) to run emulators with ROM you haven't created yourself, so if you own them and want to see them running in an emulator you need to do your own ROM dumps.

 

[Jonnyram]

OP is not talking about ripping a product, so that he can have a backup/permanent copy that never erodes.
He/she is talking about buying a product, keeping it new, enjoying the product, while it maintains its "new" value.

That's what we call "having your cake and eating it". There's nothing morally right about it. It's stupid and immature. If you want to play the game, open it, or buy it digitally. If you want to collect games and sell them later, buy it, keep it sealed. You can't mix the two.

 

[boiled goose]

If you buy a car is it legal to steal one even if you just keep it parked in your garage?

.

If u want to collect And play. Buy 2. Simple as That.

 

[zsidane]

Apparently it's illegal (might be bannable too, don't know) to run emulators with ROM you haven't created yourself, so if you own them and want to see them running in an emulator you need to do your own ROM dumps.

I gave the exemple of GC games on purpose since it's a hassle to make my own (still looking for a BBA...).
It's easier fir me on PS3 since i just ripped my guitar hero games to take advantage of the HDD...

 

[freddy]

I keep the opened physical copies and if I decide to sell the game I delete it from my hard drive. Most of the time there is a serial code inside the box that I need. I wouldn't download a full copy of the game off the net because I have one in front of me. There are many people who will buy legit copies but will just download non-DRM and No-CD cracks.

No, I don't agree with what you are proposing.

 

[Gintamen]

Buy 2 copies. Open and play one. Resell the other.

Not more like sell the used one once you are finished with the opened product? What sense would it make to buy an extra copy only to sell it later on? Oo

op, don't let other peoples moral compass guide you.

Only that most seemed to be morally okay with it, so that begs the question if you have even read the thread.

What if you buy a game, rip it, and then sell it? Is it retroactively piracy?

The piracy started with the ripping. In most cases at least.

 

[Canis lupus]

Haha, no. If you wanna keep it new you should buy 2 copies then, or rip yo games yoself.

 

[Cheerilee]

I've got Chrono Trigger for the SNES which I bought new when it came out.

Many years ago I used an SNES game copier to make a "backup" so that I wouldn't have to damage my copy any more than I already did.

I don't see how wanting to preserve 100% of a game's condition, right down to the shrink wrap, is immoral.

 

[mentok15]

It's probably illegal, i don't really know.

I would say it's morally fine. Can someone explain to me why it's not? Who is it hurting? The developer/publisher/store all got their money for the game.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I see no problems with it. I think it's fine to "pirate" games you can't buy, too, like lost PC games etc. But you should buy them if they ever go on a DD platform later.