Microsoft and Sony aren't doing too well amongst indies these days either. All the consoles are progressively losing out to Steam and iOS.
Indeed
All those DD outlets still existed at the same time as Nintendo's DD store on the Wii and this is where most console people are going to look for comparisons(even though the 3DS shop has really improved compared to Nintendo's old stores). I'm sure the Wii U's storefront and policies might shine through over time if Nintendo keeps trying to be competitive. No fees for patching and extremely fast steam-like updates is VERY VERY promising news compared to the quicksand that is the XBL patch certification process(God... I hate certifications).
I didn't talk about indies for my part, I talked about dumb decisions like Mass Effect 3, Dead Rising Wii, or countless other examples, where companies could've acted much smarter.
If you don't even try to create a good basis on a Nintendo system, you shouldn't complain about the sales numbers. Ubisoft obviously hasn't that big problems, but they bring exclusive games alongside their mainstream/mid-tier-games.
Of course, Nintendo systems aren't the holy grail for 3rd parties, but throwing continuously shit at the market and "testing" the system won't change it either. And you can earn a good amount of additional money (see Ubisoft or Activision) and I don't think anyone is reluctand to earn additional millions.
This is why I think some of the publishers should get smarter people or get off of their ridiculous market strategies regarding that part.
I can get that. I was a pretty big Wii supporter myself and I raged hard at DSE becoming a rail shooter, Umbrella Chronicles, DS Chronicles, that non fighter Soulcalibur game and the other cash-ins. It is definitely a different case from the indie scene. Publishers didn't need to worry about size limites, lack of hard drives or storefront marketing. They just needed to make a nice game on a modest budget like they did on the PS2/GC/Xbox and profits could come, but they just kept flailing like fish out of water while the industry ate it's flesh to survive and adapt to HD development.
You have a point but it is still a bias that you are stating here, that the industry standard barers are XBLA/PSN and "eShop who?" is pretty much a bias. If you are indie I am sure you want your project on those known hyped platforms as you said Nintendo came very late into this. Wii did not have an eShop, Wiiware was not a good marketing plan and a half-assed effort. So if you are an indie you are asking "What the hell is an eShop?"
As far as profits, Steam and iOS yes but you should not be so hasty giving XBLA/PSN so much credit for indie gold from the much hyped and loved titles we always hear about can be named from the recent VGAs while hundreds of unknowns go without selling... I think indies may find it cool to be on those platforms and this is out of a bias that those are the big guns of the industry but profitable is a different matter when you are on a big hype machine market visibility for smaller projects becomes a struggle. So I can see why jumping on a new kid on the scene would be worth exploring.
if you read some of Joel's posts in this thread he has his experiences with Trine 2 on these platforms http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504498&page=2
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying on top. I don't know whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. Nintendo was a non-factor for indies and small studios that couldn't afford to enter retail for 3-4 years now since their online store was barebones as it could get. PSN and XBLA were more or less the standard until Steam exploded a couple of years afterwards and there is no doubt in my mind that Valve is the current king despite all the hoopla over iOS. Consoles in general have a lot of work to do if they want to be the proper home for indies and small devs.
Also, I'm totally aware of how messy it can be for indies and small devs on PSN and XBLA right now. My favorite game(Skullgirls) has practically been massacred by patch fees, stupid behind the door stipulations and silly DLC policies that are stopping Lab Zero Games from making money they need to fund a PC version of the game. Shit sucks bad, but it wasn't always this way and it isn't always that bad an experience for everyone. Until recently this was the only choice for third parties that wanted to make a 40mb+ game on consoles with hard drives and a decent storefront for marketing. Nintendo has to prove to the industry that they are capable after being a non factor for an entire generation. That slate doesn't get wiped so easily when you have their kind of record.
Steam, yes. PSN, XBLA and iOS, however? Not really. But this isn't the thread to discuss this in detail.
Yeah, this is more of a konami thread. The discussion just veered way out into some other place. I'm definitely leaving this discussion right there. More platinum and Konami PC development plz.