Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
You can move her manually exactly like Crisis Core. Then when you start an action, she becomes AI controlled... again, like Crisis Core.
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Lightning Returns: FFXIII screenshots and extended Jump Festa trailer
- Thread starter Kagari
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You can move her manually exactly like Crisis Core. Then when you start an action, she becomes AI controlled... again, like Crisis Core.
Yeah ppl seriously need to either play Crisis Core or watch some videos, LR seems to be an expansion on the style of gameplay introduced in that game.
Zack was fully controllable in Crisis Core and the dodging/evasion was very fast and on point. You could even dodge cancel out of your attacks to reduce the recovery or evade an enemy's attack. It was all highly responsive and very well done.
Zack was fully controllable in Crisis Core and the dodging/evasion was very fast and on point. You could even dodge cancel out of your attacks to reduce the recovery or evade an enemy's attack. It was all highly responsive and very well done.
Sanctuary
Member
Anything has to be more interactive than that. So anything other than the paradigm shift can only be a good thing. It's what made playing FFXIII such a snooze to "play" when you actually had control of your characters. As much as people criticized the gambit system from XII, at least that game felt like a game. I'd given up on Square after their past two RPGs, but this game actually looks like it might have potential.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
But then, that almost sounds like you can't cancel the attack if you needed to choose something else (ie: dodge in the middle of a swipe if you're planning on attacking) because she turned into a robot for a bit. What's the point of movement, then, if the enemy's going to catch you off-guard in the middle of an attack? Because in the video, she certainly wasn't dodging some of those knockdown hits.
The rest of my post is sound, right? It takes precious seconds to select a style and then evade the attacks you want to if you're in a style where you don't have Eva/Guard mapped to a button. But if you don't have a passive skill like the ward skills associated with the style in case you don't get there in time, then having guard/eva mapped in a different style is counterintuitive to some players who like to get things done quick. You have to take the damage and go through the slow as hell hit animation as opposed to the quicker evade and guard animation where you can easily recover and go for a strike.
Lightning's animations, especially her knockdown animation, are kind of slow for my tastes.
I don't recall liking CC's combat that much. I thought it was too simple. I mean, it worked, but it wasn't to my taste.
Edit: wait, the Minerva battle was okay.
...to be fair, you're talking to someone who's writing up a post on why FFMQ is fun for her to run through often, so...
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
CC was such a good game... shitty side missions if anything.
NieR pretty much proves my point of how stupidly impossible some people are to satisfy. First they are all "bwaaah, bwaah, Square Enix shouldn't focus so much on production values", then when they come up with a game like Nier, which isn't the prettiest game around, but plays decently & has a neato story, a lot of people change their tune and are all like "lulz, this looks like shijaaaaat, lololol, why so lazy, Square Enix, will wait until it's <10$." It's like... they can't win.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Haha, I think Nier the character went pretty well with how Nier the game looked. Rough on the outside, but when you dig down, it's not as bad as it initially seems to be and you'll find something you like about it. I felt the game had lots of personality after a bit of time with it, and I kinda enjoyed how the game kept (massive dungeon spoilers)
. Game had a lot of heart.
...most people would generally say that its best feature is probably the soundtrack? I guess?
switching up its genre: from shmup to a nod to Zelda to Resident Evil to a visual novel, etc. Not a lot of people like that, but even if it was a mishmash like that, it still felt focused and cohesive and those genre changes felt like extra content for players familiar with those concepts (they blended in and weren't the focus of the game)
...most people would generally say that its best feature is probably the soundtrack? I guess?
Femmeworth
Banned
I would do serious things to see Yoko Taro direct a main entry Final Fantasy. Then again, Square Enix would likely brake him like Matsuno.
StunandStab
Member
The novel parts of Nier were what stood out to me the most. I enjoyed those bits.
WHAT
The characters in Nier are anything but generic.
That latest Famitsu interview really surprised me. I never thought she would be allied with Bhunivelze. That's really interesting. I have no idea how that happened, since Bhunivelze was pretty much opposed to Etro, and created the Fal'cie and gave them the task that led to their plot to destroy Cocoon in the first place. I was almost certain Bhunivelze would be the main villain in this game.
Well I knew I wasn't going to be able to predict it accurately. They always do something unexpected.
The murder subplot sounds interesting so far. I'm down for more mature storylines. That's what lots of people have been asking for.
I was hoping the battle system would be a full blown action RPG, but this will be pretty interesting. Even in the Lightning Epilogue DLC for XIII-2 you had to switch paradigms extremely rapidly to block attacks and get back on the attack since you were only one character. With even more responsive real time blocking and evades, I have high hopes that this is going to be really fun to play. We'll see. Sounds like there's quite a bit they haven't finished yet, let alone shown off to us.
Yep, been saying this for a while. "bahhhh you wait forever to show us Versus. Just show us something!" Then they show off alpha version gameplay of LR, "bahhh it's not visually perfect, and look at those shadows! You should have just shown off nothing!"
The list goes on and on. And yeah, NieR is amazing. One of my favorite games this gen. I don't think it even looked rough. I loved the look of it. Reminded me of Ico and SotC for most of it.
Well I knew I wasn't going to be able to predict it accurately. They always do something unexpected.
The murder subplot sounds interesting so far. I'm down for more mature storylines. That's what lots of people have been asking for.
I was hoping the battle system would be a full blown action RPG, but this will be pretty interesting. Even in the Lightning Epilogue DLC for XIII-2 you had to switch paradigms extremely rapidly to block attacks and get back on the attack since you were only one character. With even more responsive real time blocking and evades, I have high hopes that this is going to be really fun to play. We'll see. Sounds like there's quite a bit they haven't finished yet, let alone shown off to us.
Yep, been saying this for a while. "bahhhh you wait forever to show us Versus. Just show us something!" Then they show off alpha version gameplay of LR, "bahhh it's not visually perfect, and look at those shadows! You should have just shown off nothing!"
The list goes on and on. And yeah, NieR is amazing. One of my favorite games this gen. I don't think it even looked rough. I loved the look of it. Reminded me of Ico and SotC for most of it.
Whoops, I meant the dev team head. Sorry I wrote that while I was sleepy. I know this was pages back but I don't want to be misrepresented.
I'll have something to say later on more recent discussion.
Ideal solution for a story where information is not force fed to you is dark souls.
I always found reading through stuff like the datalog or books in Elder Scrolls to be tedious. Elder Scrolls is okay because they aren't that important and some of them are kind of funny. But it feels kind of like a cop-out to force someone to read through piles of text to clarify a part of the story, unless its a visual novel or.. a book.
Exactly. It's a case of Toriyama picking a random god from FNC and getting Lightning to be their bitch for a game. Then he gets bored so he picks another one, it doesn't matter that they were never really mentioned in the previous games nor that the people of the world seemed to have been oblivious to their existence until not where they suddenly all know about them.
He's the main god in FNC. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
There was a subtitled video explaining it, but I can't find it in English anymore.
It's not really random though. The whole point of all the FNC mythology is that Bhunivelze went to sleep, and waited for the day that the door to the unseen realm was finally opened, and created the fal'cie to look for it.
At the end of XIII-2
it opens.
Nier is one of my favorite game this gen, but let's be honest, it felt like the game was sent out to die. I don't need FFXIII-level graphics, in fact, it seems having them is a bad thing. At the same time, Nier is terribly unpolished. There is a happy middle-ground they could have entered, and then less people would have dropped the game quickly and seen what an awesome plot and music it has.
I mean, even if they actually made it a PS2 game, then upscaled it, the same way as the ICO collection or Zone of the Enders. That would have been great. In fact, I wish the smaller devs who could not afford to make RPGs this gen on consoles just did that from the get go. I would not mind a new Suikoden or Wild Arms game made on PS2 then just released as an upscale for say $30-40. It would be much cheaper for them and HD-ified PS2 games look pretty damn nice and polished.
Yeah but Bhunivelze was never mentioned before. No one knows who is, no one has any idea he even exists (well you could say Cocoon fal'cie did and called him Maker, but they could have just as easily called Lindzei Maker too and I think in Japanese they referred to 'Makers' rather than 'Maker'). And yet suddenly he's put on the pedestal as the main driving force in LR. Not to mention that he somehow makes Lightning his champion, the same Lightning who defied what he would have wanted in FFXIII and the same Lightning which was a champion of Etro, a deity he clearly opposes, and a failed champion at that.
It's the same as the jump from XIII to XIII-2. First of all XIII didn't really have any elements of FNC in the story when it came to the gods. It worked as a standalone story without the need for the mythology. The 'Goddess' was mentioned twice in the whole game, Bart doesn't even call Lindzei or Bhunivelze by their names but rather refers to them as Maker, Pulse is completely absent. Yet, before XIII-2 Toriyama said that XIII was about Lindzei and Pulse. XIII-2 comes in and suddenly everyone knows Etro, there's a tribe on Pulse that are Etro's followers and everything revolves around Etro. Lindzei is nowhere to be seen or mentioned even though the door was opened in the last chapter of XIII or the fact that Etro is completely messing up the world without her two more powerful brothers intervening. She picks Lightning as her champion despite being Pulse fal'cie and despite actually killing Orphan which lead to almost the death of millions if Etro didn't intervene. And don't even get me started on the whole Serah is seestress thing, even though she looks nothing like a Yuel and there being no indication of her being so in FFXIII.
These are just too big jumps of logic to simply justify what Toriyama wants to happen. FFXIII-2 would have worked just as well as a new FNC staring just Noel, same as LR would have worked just as well as another new IP from FNC either continuing with Noel's story or having a story of a new champion of Bhunivelze.
I think my problem is that stuff is pretty far into the background, until it bitchslaps you at the end of the game. After reading that wiki page I can't determine if Bhunivelze is good or bad (or just fucked up). It can be incredibly confusing for someone who doesn't deeply follow the FNC mythos. Why does Bhunivelze want to open the gate? To kill his mother apparently, but doesn't that make him bad to want to kill his mother?
FFXIII did have lots of bits about FNC, but they were all relegated to the datalog. I'm pretty sure the Farseers where mentioned somewhere in FFXIII too, although it probably was some some datalog entry so it's not completely out of nowhere.
And Serah gains her eyes of etro after the end of XIII, so it couldn't have been shown before simply because she didn't have the ability yet.
That's exactly the thing. The analects do a fairly good job of telling the story of the War of Transgression and of Lindzei creating Cocoon. Yuel is mentioned as one of the writers of the datalog and that's it.
The fact is though, none of the people in the game know this, that's why it's in the datalogs. In FFXIII they don't know of any Etro, of Lindzei or Pulse and they certainly don't know of any Bhunivelze. And then suddenly, here comes the next game and Toriyama decides that know that stuff is public knowledge? It just doesn't follow, especially since we're talking largely the same people here.
ALso re Serah, I suppose you're referring to the retconed ending of FFXIII. The question is why does she suddenly have Etro's eyes? According to the game's logic there is already a Yuel somewhere on Gran Pulse that is doing the same job as Serah would be as a seeress. So why give Serah the gift? What was Etro's motivation behind it? These things are never explained, and so Serah once again becomes a plot device rather than a main character.
Though don't get me wrong I'm happy it eventually led to her death, at least one character from the game is gone.
Oh and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up getting a prequel where Lightning travel's in time to be Muin's champion for no apparent reason, going by the recent trend of Toriyama.
FNC mythology always toys around with perspective. You're never quite sure who is good, or who is evil, and it can change depending on who wrote the text you're reading and what their perspective is. We know that Bhunivelze dominates the mortal realm, but we don't know if that's actually good or bad. I assumed it was bad. But at the same time, he created Pulse and the fal'cie, which is kind of making all of existence as humans know it, so that's pretty good.
It seems like he's just interested in power. I think he wants the door open to the unseen realm because it's something he can't currently attain. It's hard to say, but if he's the focus of the third game, and it's a conclusion to the story, I think we'll learn a great deal in LR about it all.
"In the physical world, it contains within its form endless chaos. By the will of the deities, it gives birth to all living things. I speak of crystal. The eternal dream world of the crystal lies within the Unseen World. Even the gods long to find their way to that place. In all crystal, the heart that shines most brightly is called Bhunivelze."
Yeul's Confessions, Final Fantasy XIII-2
I assume this "eternal dreamworld of the crystal" is the "new world" Lightning is going to lead souls to. I don't know what else it could possibly be.
We really know next to nothing about it, or about crystal in FNC. The driving force behind the story up until now was trying to get to the unseen realm. Now it seems like hidden in the unseen realm is a crystal dream realm. And FNC means "Tale of the Crystal" so this could be the whole point of it all.
I guess we'll see soon enough! I know I find it really interesting, even if it's confusing sometimes.
The story is told terribly. That's the problem. You can have the best mythology ever in the history of the cosmos, but it amounts to nothing if it's told like crap. Execution counts, I think the world has potential but it looks to be completely misrepresented by that hack Toriyama. He assumes too much of the playerbase following his "carefully-woven" story. I doubt many people care about the background/expanded fiction besides us people on Gaf and fansites. Having gods that actually have indecipherable motives sounds like a grand idea, but I fear it will be squandered. The societal changes due to everyone being immortal and living on land suspended in nothingness? That's not gonna be told well at all if we look at the series' history.
Well that's up to you to decide. I'm not telling you to like it.
I just know that I can't wait to see what happens next. I can't think of any game ever that has this many crazy/interesting things going on. The true god of everything is showing up, and plays a role. There's now souls and dead people. Everyone's 500+ years old. The world is ending, but there's a new world somewhere. There's also the floating ark Bhunivelze (Cocoon 2) and who even knows what that's like?
It just seems like so much stuff that it's impossible to really tackle it all. We may not ever get all the answers, but he's sure good at setting up tons of interesting scenarios, in my opinion. His writing style reminds me a bit of Evangelion or Lost. It's purposely vague and that plays a key part in making it fun. If they sat and spelled out every single thing it would kind of ruin it.
After the LR Ultimania stuff comes out though, it'll be interesting to see what questions we all still have.
I'm not too concerned about whether casual FF fans are following it all. It's not as accessible as past FF stories, I agree. But for those that want to dig in, the mystery makes it really fun, in my opinion.
I still don't understand how Bhunivelze isn't the main villain. In the first game, completing your focus and dreaming eternally in crystal stasis is a hellish prison for Serah. In Yeul's prophecy it's the most desirable thing ever. Who knows? I'm hoping LR really delivers on all of these concepts in some way.
Wasn't the FNC world created by someone else first then handed to Toriyama? The might explain what's going on. I myself do like terrible things, for example I love the Kingdom Hearts storyline even if it's nonsensical, needlessly convoluted and so stupid. But that's fine because it's consistent in it's stupidity after KH1 and the combat is kickass.
I can however tell you the remaining question after LR comes out: "Where the fuck is Versus XIII?!?!"
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
FNC mythos is a basic outline that is used for all FNC games that was written by Nojima who is also writing Versus. Toriyama just has a bad interpretation.
The only good DLC and the best part of the entire game.
Literally makes fun of the battle system, and requires you to use a specific strategy.
The only good DLC and the best part of the entire game.
Literally makes fun of the battle system, and requires you to use a specific strategy.
Oh really? Oh man I gotta see this, got a link?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fabula_Nova_Crystallis:_Final_Fantasy
Sometimes I think I'm one of the few that knows everything.
Actually I meant the Gilgamesh fight.
...I can probably just look this up myself. I'm stupid.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
INORITE
I'd figure you'd like that.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Of course. I am GILGAMESH FAN KING.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Considering he is already retired, I'd say he's probably already broken.
Unfortunately completely overused. It's like they want to cram him into every single Final Fantasy game.
What's wrong with having a recurring villain like that? Are chocobos overused?
He is usually secret or extra, and his weapon variety provides references to past FFs and such.
GoldandBlue
Member
I don't see how he's overused. Besides adding him later to past FF as an extra boss (using the same old sprite of him) the only FF where he has even spoken lines recently is FF12 and FF13-2.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Because he's an extra he doesn't need unlikeable flaws for the sake of character development, which means he can be constantly awesome and funny. Can't be worse than Serah/Lightning.
YES! Tell them Myriadis! Drag the GilgaMEH fans to the pits of New Bodhum with the ultimate truth!
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Still haven't made a spinoff game for em though.
Whereas Lightning gets a major role in Duodecim, mediocre role in XIII-2 and now her own game. To be greeted into the Hall of get your own game with Vincent and Zack.
Damn Straight.
Except the market reaction was negative and SE has acted accordingly. FF fans want their entire story on a disc and I don't blame them. XIII-2 was a terrible way of handling it anyway with the cliffhanger ending... and then build up to the Lightning DLC which wasn't even conclusive.
Just because you think it's a good idea doesn't mean the audience at large does.
You seem pressed at the lack of relevance of your favorite character. What if Lightning has a major role in every game she is in? Not her fault to be this iconic.
PS: And no shame in being in the same hall as the most famous final fantasy male character in Japan. Fitting tbh.
I'm sure her game and Vincent's will have a lot in common.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
You seem pressed at the lack of relevance of your favorite character. What if Lightning has a major role in every game she is in? Not her fault to be this iconic.
PS: And no shame in being in the same hall as the most famous final fantasy male character in Japan. Fitting tbh.
Every game she's been in excluding Duodecim features the same planet feeble mortal.
Meccanical
Member
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