Support NeoGAF

[CHEEZMO™]

I like how you're shunning off all the facts im providing you. Take example of the RT news report. What are you gonna say RT is now some sort of Zionist puppet agency which isn't a real source?

RT is an incredibly shitty source but for different reasons.

 

[Chuckie]

No, what is telling is that the site he links from is an infamous Islamaphobic site. Which says something. I haven't denied the attack, rather I am confused as to how two incidents, whose only similarity is that the perpetrators are Arab (note the assumption that they are therefore Muslim) is somehow evidence of a massive trend of Muslim attacks on Jews.

Considering that the claim he needs to support is that the majority of attacks on Jews are by Muslims, and has supported this with a couple of articles that haven't established motive or even perpetrators (not in the article he links anyway), then I don't feel like I'm up against it in this discussion.

Must I do his research for him?

I did not know that was an infamous islamaphobic site.

Nevertheless it is a weak argument to call it self-referential (which all newssites do if they have follow-ups) or to ask for a reliable source when you yourself said you don't deny the attack.
It would have been better if you directly wrote the arguments you wrote in the post to me that I am now quoting, to him.

They told me they don't serve Muslims. But maybe they meant something else?

Is that even legal? Can't you bring this to the police or press? Because that is fucked up.

 

[SoccerGoaliePro]

What's so funny?


What crimes did the Assyrians in the region commit against the Muslims?


You have a link to prove this? Any recording from them?

He's a troll . I'm not even gonna respond to him anymore.

 

[nib95]

Fox News and the Right Wing. That and bigotry, racism and xenophobia. There's the political agenda too, always good to vilify a certain group when you're at war with them or they have resources you really need to make up an excuse to go steal.

 

[Ashes]

Jews have had it worst, and it's not even close. Not even close.

What a disgusting way to look at it. It's not a competition bro. Humanity loses every single time.

 

[SoulPlaya]

I find the linking of ethnicity and Christianity in the ME particularly peculiar, because it leads to assertions like yours; namely talking about the religion being 'indigenous' to anywhere. It doesn't work like that. It is a further irony considering the history Christianity has with 'indigenous' religions. There are still copts for example. There are no druids though.

Not many worshippers of Quetzecoatl for that manner.

I didn't mean "Christianity" was indigenous. I meant Assyrians and Armenians, which they are.

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

What a disgusting way to look at it. It's not a competition bro. Humanity loses every single time.

Get your BS faux outrage out of here. You know damn well I didn't mean it in any fucked up way.

 

[Sianos]

What crimes did the Assyrians in the region commit against the Muslims?.

It's the Muslims who obviously committed the crimes in that case, you know what I mean.

Muslims kill innocent non-Muslims, Christians kill innocent non-Christians. All because they don't share the same beliefs. Truly disgusting.

 

[OttomanScribe]

I like how you're shunning off all the facts im providing you. Take example of the RT news report. What are you gonna say RT is now some sort of Zionist puppet agency which isn't a real source?

You need to provide proof of your claim. You haven't, so I don't feel a need to give it any more time.

You said 'Muslims are behind most of the attacks on Jews'. You need to either provide proof for that claim, or go back on it.

Showing that Muslims are involved in some attacks is not sufficient evidence, because that is not my argument.

 

[Ashes]

Get your BS faux outrage out of here. You know damn well I didn't mean it in any fucked up way.

How am I to know that exactly? You get called out for being facetious at your own peril.

 

[Nesotenso]

I didn't mean "Christianity" was indigenous. I meant Assyrians and Armenians, which they are.

Sorry if you misunderstood me.


Get your BS faux outrage out of here. You know damn well I didn't mean it in any fucked up way.

yeah, there is and was mistreatment of religious minorities in the ME and the muslim world. That's not a secret. So does that make the reverse or reprisals fair play ? why are taking you the thread off to another tangent ? but then again you have stated as much that you are ignorant and irrational. I'll add stupid to that as well.

also lol to anyone calling Russia Today a reputable news source

 

[OttomanScribe]

You have a link to prove this? Any recording from them?

Ha. I'm a liar now?

I didn't mean "Christianity" was indigenous. I meant Assyrians and Armenians, which they are.

My point is about Muslim attacks on Christians that are indigenous to these areas

If that is your objection, then how does religion come into it? What does your idea of those groups specifically being 'Indigenous' (a strange claim indeed) have to do with anything?

 

[Poohblaster]

What is a race? Is it something with a clear scientific meaning?

Don't ask me I'm not a scientist. But the U.S. Census Bureau, political polling, scholarship committees, standardized tests, and my driver's license all seem to think it can be defined. Muslim has never been one of the options, but I think I'd check it if I had the chance.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Don't ask me I'm not a scientist. But the U.S. Census Bureau, political polling, scholarship committees, standardized tests, and my driver's license all seem to think it can be defined. Muslim has never been one of the options, but I think I'd check it if I had the chance.

It is defined as a social construct, it doesn't have any scientific validity. Therefore 'race' as an attribute can be applied to anything from religion to types of food enjoyed.

 

[Ashes]

Don't ask me I'm not a scientist. But the U.S. Census Bureau, political polling, scholarship committees, standardized tests, and my driver's license all seem to think it can be defined.

You ever heard the term 'race thinking'?

 

[RustyNails]

You have a link to prove this? Any recording from them?

"I will tell a story about bad muslims storming my church in my native country and beheading my priest, BUT YOU SHALL PROVIDE YOUR SOURCES FOR YOUR STORIES OF MUSLIMS BEING HARASSED"

Get your head out of your ass.

 

[Indrid Cold1]

Amongst the ignorant and fearful, I would imagine the main reason that muslims are distrusted and hated to be the fact that in recent times, people who identify as muslim have brought catastrophic death and destruction to innocent men, women, and children in every corner of the world.

9/11, Bali bombings, 7/7 attacks, Madrid train bombings, Beslan hostage crisis, Toulouse shootings, Benghazi diplomatic mission attack, the list goes on and on.

Your law abiding muslim minding his own business in the street is almost a victim of these attacks in his own right, as the way the media reports these tends to whip the ignorant and fearful into a frenzy. This is when he becomes "the enemy" by association.

 

[Ashes]

As has every other religion. And a couple of secular states... and both democratic and authoritarian states, as well as socialist communist states. Nobody's hand is clean.

Let's face it. This is post 9/11 fervour.

 

[FreeMufasa]

We're an easy target right now. And since we're not a homogenous race, ppl feel they're not racist.

EDIT: something ppl forget is we (average Muslim in da west) are also fearful of terrorist attacks. I was on da train on the failed London bombing a week after 7/7. You can bet I ducked out of there and was shitting bricks.

I told someone at work and his response. "But you're Muslim, they won't get you"
......seriously

 

[SoulPlaya]

"I will tell a story about bad muslims storming my church in my native country and beheading my priest, BUT YOU SHALL PROVIDE YOUR SOURCES FOR YOUR STORIES OF MUSLIMS BEING HARASSED"

Get your head out of your ass.

That's my point! I'm trying to make a joke here about ridiculous claims for evidence.

It was a joke that I didn't convey, clearly, I admit.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Ha. I'm a liar now?





If that is your objection, then how does religion come into it? What does your idea of those groups specifically being 'Indigenous' (a strange claim indeed) have to do with anything?

I don't know if you are a liar. It was a badly said joke.

They were attacked because of their religion. The only reason why I identified them as "indigenous" is because someone was trying to make a point about Christian states vs. Muslim states, and I was just trying to make it clear that these aren't foreigners or something. That's all.

yeah, there is and was mistreatment of religious minorities in the ME and the muslim world. That's not a secret. So does that make the reverse or reprisals fair play ? why are taking you the thread off to another tangent ? but then again you have stated as much that you are ignorant and irrational. I'll add stupid to that as well.

also lol to anyone calling Russia Today a reputable news source

You didn't read what I wrote? I said that what happened to that man was terrible. I wasn't condoning it in anyway. I'm just trying to highlight another tragedy, as well. Like I said, I already stated that it didn't condone anything, and that what happened to this guy was terrible.

BTW, please avoid name calling. I don't know you, and you don't know me, but I assure you that I'm no dummy. Doing so only makes you look bad.

 

[2MF]

No, I can't think of a rational reason to distrust either group as a whole.

This is not politically correct to say, but statistically I would distrust a Muslim faster than I would distrust an atheist - the former are more likely to support things I object to such as religious law.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

This is not politically correct to say, but statistically I would distrust a Muslim faster than I would distrust an atheist - the former are more likely to support things I object to such as religious law.

Why would that be reason to distrust them?

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

The Christian race HATEs the Muslim race

 

[2MF]

Why would that be reason to distrust them?

Because religious law is a very bad idea. People who support bad ideas are less deserving of my trust (all other things being equal).

 

[OttomanScribe]

I don't know if you are a liar. It was a badly said joke.

They were attacked because of their religion. The only reason why I identified them as "indigenous" is because someone was trying to make a point about Christian states vs. Muslim states, and I was just trying to make it clear that these aren't foreigners or something. That's all.

So, I'm confused, what was your point in the end? Would you say that the example you used is in any way exceptional? Either in terms of intercommunal violence in Iraq more generally, or even religious violence more generally. Your initial thing was using an example of discrimination against Muslims within 'Christendom' as a jumping off point for...

 

[SoulPlaya]

So, I'm confused, what was your point in the end? Would you say that the example you used is in any way exceptional? Either in terms of intercommunal violence in Iraq more generally, or even religious violence more generally. Your initial thing was using an example of discrimination against Muslims within 'Christendom' as a jumping off point for...

My initial example was what? I honestly don't know what you're asking me here.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Atheists are the master race :3

 

[OttomanScribe]

My initial example was what? I honestly don't know what you're asking me here.

I'm asking you what your point was. From here it looks like an attempt to lessen the problem of racist attacks against a muslims through your example of an unrelated act of violence in a country in the midst of a civil war.

I'm sure you would disagree with that characterisation, so I'm asking you to clarify.

 

[SoulPlaya]

I'm asking you what your point was. From here it looks like an attempt to lessen the problem of racist attacks against a muslims through your example of an unrelated act of violence in a country in the midst of a civil war.

I'm sure you would disagree with that characterisation, so I'm asking you to clarify.

Despite the fact that I've already listed examples from far before this time? There are also plenty of examples of attacks going on currently in Egypt, Pakistan, Nigeria, etc.

My point was simple. What happened to this man was terrible, but I wish some more attention could also be paid to the plight of Christians in Muslim countries. That's all.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Pretty soon we're just going to have to ask who aren't people racist against.

At the same time?

This coupled with your avatar had me laughing.

 

[dark_chris]

True story: Americans distrust atheists more than they do Muslims.

Think about that for a second.

Because Atheists are blasphemous heathens that dont believe in God.
=p

 

[neobiz]

Why does any group of people hate any other group of people?

That wasn't in NPR. It was in Land O' Lakes (I've spent pretty much my entire life in LO'L). The majority of the population is normal run of the mill folks but not long ago you would have considered it a 'hick' town. There was maybe a handfull of minority kids in my highschool (close to 20 years ago).

It irritates me that my wife and kids shop at that Wal Mart but hopefully nothing like that happens during the day.

I would have beat the living shit out that guy after I realized it wasn't a 'real' gun. I give props to the victim for not pulling the gun he was carrying and shooting the attacker dead.

 

[Zee-Row]

I guess the anti-Arabic shenanigans have continued, Time Warner terminated Current TV since it was bought by Al Jazeera.

 

[Zapages]

Amongst the ignorant and fearful, I would imagine the main reason that muslims are distrusted and hated to be the fact that in recent times, people who identify as muslim have brought catastrophic death and destruction to innocent men, women, and children in every corner of the world.

9/11, Bali bombings, 7/7 attacks, Madrid train bombings, Beslan hostage crisis, Toulouse shootings, Benghazi diplomatic mission attack, the list goes on and on.

Your law abiding muslim minding his own business in the street is almost a victim of these attacks in his own right, as the way the media reports these tends to whip the ignorant and fearful into a frenzy. This is when he becomes "the enemy" by association.

List goes both ways....

Here's just an example:

Continued support for dictators in Muslim countries
Chechynia
Palestine/Israel issue
Kashmir, and Babri Mosque
Muslims in China
Muslims in Burma
Bosnia
Iraq
Afghanistan
Drone attacks killing innocent people in Pakistan
etc...

 

[OttomanScribe]

Despite the fact that I've already listed examples from far before this time? There are also plenty of examples of attacks going on currently in Egypt, Pakistan, Nigeria, etc.

My point was simple. What happened to this man was terrible, but I wish some more attention could also be paid to the plight of Christians in Muslim countries. That's all.

Picture this. You create a thread, say, about that priest getting killed. Then I come in and start talking about Srebrenica, Sabra and Shatila... all the work of your co-religionists.

Now tell me that wouldn't be not only ridiculous, but freaking tasteless. It is like some morbid Kanye West thread bomb thing, 'I'ma let you discuss the oppression that this thread is about, but here, listen to this relatively unrelated other oppression'.

At best it is a non-sequitur, at worst it looks like you are trying to say that they had it coming.

 

[pakkit]

To OP: because too many people use religion as a method to attack others, or consider themselves above others, instead of using religion as a way to learn about humanism and living life to its fullest.

 

[OttomanScribe]

To OP: because too many people use religion as a method to attack others, or consider themselves above others, instead of using religion as a way to learn about humanism and living life to its fullest.

What?

 

[pakkit]

Humanism: valuing people individually and globally. An example of humanism is being wholly anti-war, since it undoubtedly causes casualties.

Regarding "living life to its fullest," many religions emphasize moral guidelines or meditation in order to enjoy life. This philosophical side of religion doesn't strike me as dangerous (although, misapplied it can be).

 

[OttomanScribe]

Humanism: valuing people individually and globally. An example of humanism is being wholly anti-war, since it undoubtedly causes casualties.

Regarding "living life to its fullest," many religions emphasize moral guidelines or meditation in order to enjoy life. This philosophical side of religion doesn't strike me as dangerous (although, misapplied it can be).

So the reason that people are racist against Muslims is because some Muslims don't follow the same ideology as you?

Also I know what humanism is, and your definition is... not one that I would agree with.

 

[Monumental]

What I always find hilarious are the torrent of people who rush into these topics solely to point out that Muslims are not a race.

I always imagine these masters of observation and keen intellect to then promptly pump their chests and fist pump into the air as if its some remarkable accomplishment and the thread must now be concluded.

Picture this. You create a thread, say, about that priest getting killed. Then I come in and start talking about Srebrenica, Sabra and Shatila... all the work of your co-religionists.

Now tell me that wouldn't be not only ridiculous, but freaking tasteless. It is like some morbid Kanye West thread bomb thing, 'I'ma let you discuss the oppression that this thread is about, but here, listen to this relatively unrelated other oppression'.

At best it is a non-sequitur, at worst it looks like you are trying to say that they had it coming.

Dude, don't bother any further. The thread has run it's course. Now you're just left with the ignorant, the daft, and the purposefully-obtuse.

You can't be racist against muslims, by definition. You can be intolerant, which I think we all should be

Case in point.

 

[Kite]

Amongst the ignorant and fearful, I would imagine the main reason that muslims are distrusted and hated to be the fact that in recent times, people who identify as muslim have brought catastrophic death and destruction to innocent men, women, and children in every corner of the world.

9/11, Bali bombings, 7/7 attacks, Madrid train bombings, Beslan hostage crisis, Toulouse shootings, Benghazi diplomatic mission attack, the list goes on and on.

Your law abiding muslim minding his own business in the street is almost a victim of these attacks in his own right, as the way the media reports these tends to whip the ignorant and fearful into a frenzy. This is when he becomes "the enemy" by association.

This is correct.

 

[Monumental]

I would imagine the main reason that muslims are distrusted and hated to be the fact that in recent times, people who identify as muslim have brought catastrophic death and destruction to innocent men, women, and children in every corner of the world.

I'd wager more catastrophic death and destruction has befallen on innocent Muslim men, women, and children in Palestine, Burma and Iraq.
None of which was due to terrorism done in the name of Islam.

 

[pakkit]

So the reason that people are racist against Muslims is because some Muslims don't follow the same ideology as you?

Also I know what humanism is, and your definition is... not one that I would agree with.

Few problems: Islam is not a race. They're the enemy du jour for the USA, however.

Humanism is not an exact concept. The essentials are still about valuing humanity on an individual basis.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Florida.



(not my answer to the thread title)

+1

 

[OttomanScribe]

Few problems: Islam is not a race. They're the enemy du jour for the USA, however.

Islam, while not being a race, is on the whole 'racialised' in a phenomenon that is becoming increasingly widely recognised. Discrimination against Muslims has an undeniably racial character with alarming regularity.

Humanism is not an exact concept. The essentials are still about valuing humanity on an individual basis.

I didn't say it was an exact concept, merely that your definition would probably not be agreed with by many humanists.

 

[OttomanScribe]

I said Muslim discrimination isn't that big of a problem in north america and proved it with stats coming from statscan and the FBI which showed that it wasn't a large issue.

Care to expand on your statistics to include you know, attacks per capita. How many Muslims are there in America? How many Jews? According to wiki anyway, there are two times as many Jews as Muslims. Which doesn't negate the severity of anti-Jewish violence, but certainly shows that, proportionally, violence against both groups is far higher than against any other.

So you have not supported your assertion. Your quoting of percentages of attacks without references to percentage of the general population is misleading.

Then I said Muslims are leading the way of promoting anti Jewish violence.

No, this is what you said:

On the other hand everytime a Jewish person is killed or attacked its almost always a Muslim person.

Then I showed you some recent cases where this proved that point then found a news report showing that anti Jewish discrimination in Sweden grows larger as the muslim population grows .

Which does not support your argument. Showing two cases of Arabs (you did not ascertain their religion) attacking Jews does not support your case in any meaningful way. It is what is called anecdotal evidence.

Then you resorted to denying that all away and began to cry for official stats that Muslims are the main offenders of anti Jewish discriminatory crimes but ignored the fact that if you look back just last year you can see that around 80-90 percent of news reports of Jews being killed or abused because of their religion was done by Muslims.

I asked for stats that supported your assertion. You didn't provide them.

80-90% eh? Prove it. Show me where you got that stat from? Or are you making it up?

I don't feel like I am being childish in asking you to support your assertions with more than anecdotal evidence from Islamaphobic websites and stats that mislead. I think it far more likely that you are prone towards certain sources of information, that deliberately emphasise a specific narrative, than there is a global pogrom against the Jews by Muslims. Relations have certainly worsened since the creation of the state of Israel, but asserting that Anti-Semitism is driven by Muslims is patently ridiculous.

 

[RustyNails]

Few problems: Islam is not a race. They're the enemy du jour for the USA, however.

It doesn't matter. It's brown people, and the people who align with them are just as worse. In the end, the victim's (and his family's) pain is not eased if he was killed for following a particular religion or being member of a particular ethnicity. Bigotry manifested itself, just like it did in the NYC Subway murder.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

The handicap parking has got to be for a mental disablilty and not physical.

And THAT, friends, is your answer..no more no less. Pretty sad..

 

[Rhomega Beta]

3 Things About Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

Also:
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com
http://www.jihadwatch.org

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't trust them myself. I just get them linked a lot.

 

[OttomanScribe]

3 Things About Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

Also:
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com
http://www.jihadwatch.org

Hahaha.

No.

The video is brain hurtingly bad, and wrong in so many ways that I guffawed a little bit.

The claims it makes are either malicious, or wilfully ignorant of the traditions it claims to be educating people about. These are testable claims. For example 'the Qur'an is meant to be taken literally and is not full of symbolism' is not only contradicted by the work of tafsir, but also by just.. you know, reading it. Only 4% is legal rulings, which is why the majority of legal rulings are sourced not from the Qur'an, but from the hadith.

It then asserts the doctrine of naskh (abrogation) is a historiographical exercise, which it is not. The way it works is complicated and dependant upon which juristic theory one is using.

It then makes the assumption that the only way that people interpret the Bible and the Torah is the way that they do, which is incorrect. There are Jews, for example, that maintain that the punishment for apostasy, as espoused in Jewish religious law, quite explicitly, is death by stoning.

It then goes on talk about 'Sha'riah law', without a definition. Which is a failure in and of itself.

Then it goes on about creeping Shar'iah lol. Doesn't acknowledge the fact that religious 'courts' exist for all major religions in a number of countries. A contract made under the Sha'riah is a contract like any other in Western law.

Meh. Usual uninformed fear mongering stuff.