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[Yamauchi]

I suppose they're going to take the mindset that if they're profitable, they don't care how they compare to the rest of the market.

Nintendo is no longer a profitable company. They posted their first ever full-year loss for the year 2011, and they have lost money in every quarter of 2012 so far. The company's stock has lost 83% of its value over the last 5 years. This is not some company sitting on their 'war chest' -- it is a company struggling to succeed.

 

[BlackJace]

Nintendo is no longer a profitable company. They posted their first ever full-year loss for the year 2011, and they have lost money in every quarter of 2012 so far. The company's stock has lost 83% of its value over the last 5 years. This is not some company sitting on their 'war chest' -- it is a company struggling to succeed.

Lol they still have tons of dough man.

 

[Aquamarine]

Insaid it before, Nintendo just can't support two pieces of hardware at the same time. It went weong with the N64-GBC, GAMECUBE-GBA,WI-DS.
Where one piece of hardware is getting great support, the other is lacking.
With more developmenttime needed per software this becomes more and more apparant.

Nintendo would be unbeatable with only one piece of hardware to support.

Nintendo (4,928 employees) is much, MUCH smaller than Microsoft (94,000 employees), Sony (162,700 employees), Samsung (369,000 employees), and even Apple (72,800 employees).

They have limited resources to pour into their studios. And, as I can infer from Yamauchi's post, they're struggling to adapt to the HD generation. You know...conglomerating small EAD studios, lowering their output, milking their best-sellers last gen, etc.

 

[Gummb]

Maybe Nintendo will learn its lesson from the Wii U launch just like they did with the 3DS launch!

Seriously though, Nintendo will struggle through the next 2 months without announcing a whole lot, but I seriously doubt the Wii U is doomed, but is in serious danger of not catching fire (just like the 3DS was).

Nintendo turned the 3DS around with solid software launches in Japan (and a price drop helped a bit as well), but we need to see more announcements to determine the Wii U's short-term success.

 

[michaelius]

Nintendo (4,928 employees) is much, MUCH smaller than Microsoft (94,000 employees), Sony (162,700 employees), Samsung (369,000 employees), and even Apple (72,800).

They have limited resources to pour into their studios. And, as I can infer from Yamauchi's post, they're struggling to adapt to the HD generation. You know...conglomerating small EAD studios, lowering their output, milking their best-sellers last gen, etc.

They are sitting on milions of dollars - if they have internal problems what stops them from funding 3rd party exclusives as short term solution ?

 

[Yamauchi]

Lol they still have tons of dough man.

They do, but my point still stands.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I've read a lot of posts in this thread, but there isn't a single one that answers my question.

Just how 'doomed' is Nintendo?

 

[nickcv]

They are sitting on milions of dollars - if they have internal problems what stops them from funding 3rd party exclusives as short term solution ?

it takes time to develop a good game, so paying now for some dev support wouldn't be a short term solution

I've read a lot of posts in this thread, but there isn't a single one that answers my question.

Just how 'doomed' is Nintendo?

disclaimer: the following sentences are just about japan

nintendo per se is not doomed, they pretty much own the market, on the other hand the Wii U is in an awful position, and they need to change that as soon as possible.
they need to do something on the same level of what they did with the 3DS

 

[AzaK]

WiiU needs something, fast.

Fucking games. Nintendo, your Hubris regarding Wii U has Zombified and is coming to get you.

What terrible numbers. I guess comparison charts for aligned weeks will come. Be interesting to see.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I've read a lot of posts in this thread, but there isn't a single one that answers my question.

Just how 'doomed' is Nintendo?

64th Level of Doom.

Spoiler

They aren't doomed at all but this does cause major concern.

 

[Nirolak]

WiiU needs something, fast.

The problem with game development though is you can't really start a project today and get it out in three months, or rush one releasing 6-12 months later to get it out now, and actually get quality results.

 

[michaelius]

it takes time to develop a good game, so paying now for some dev support wouldn't be a short term solution

Well yeah that's why it should have been done year ago when 3DS was strugling due to lack of games.

 

[Aquamarine]

They are sitting on milions of dollars - if they have internal problems what stops them from funding 3rd party exclusives as short term solution ?

They already are. Bayonetta 2 / The Wonderful 101 exclusive, Dragon Quest X Wii / Wii U exclusive, Monster Hunter 3 and 4 exclusive, Rayman Legends / Zombi U exclusive...all of that probably stems from moneyhats funded right out of Nintendo's pocket.

But a good percentage of those "millions of dollars" has been re-invested into 3DS and Wii U hardware and game development.

 

[nickcv]

Well yeah that's why it should have been done year ago when 3DS was strugling due to lack of games.

i'm not one of those people who believe they are sitting on hunderds of system seller games not announced, but they surely have something for Q3 and Q4, and maybe one of those games is a system seller.

on the short term (the next 5 months) they are pretty much fu***d, unless they reveal something in the next week

 

[AzaK]

Well yeah that's why it should have been done year ago when 3DS was strugling due to lack of games.

Exactly. As we have heard, a port is in the mlion buck range. Offering to pay that, or licence and do it themselves, for some choice titles would have given them something to tide gamers over between big releases.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Well, Iwata, you had a good run.

 

[The Horror the horror]

They do, but my point still stands.

What point is that? Iwata himself said the Wii was lightning in the bottle, and they're coming off their most impressive and sucessful generation in the company's history. A financial decline from such a spectacular but also anomalous peak was imminent and expected, so to analyze their current performance based on those achievements isn't fair.

 

[Aquamarine]

Well, Iwata, you had a good run.

He's going to be here through at least 2013.

After all, he did orchestrate the whole "Wii 100 million units sold, DS 150 million units sold" strategy.

But if Nintendo can't make the Wii U shine by 2014... Yeah, that's probably the last of Iwata.

 

[Berg]

Good thing nintendo still sells a hundred thousand DS & Wii's. Thats gotta help them a little bit.

 

[Kacho]

I bet we start seeing quite a few announcements in the next month or two, since we'll be nearing the end of their brilliant 'launch window' strategy.

 

[ASIS]

Terrible numbers for the Wii U. But the fact that those numbers still constitute about 45-50% of the home console market is kind off depressing.get to it Ninty.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

He's going to be here through at least 2013.

After all, he did orchestrate the whole "Wii 100 million units sold, DS 150 million units sold" strategy.

But if Nintendo can't make the Wii U shine by 2014... Yeah, that's probably the last of Iwata.

By the end of this fiscal year, judging from the Wii U performances and it's being sold at a loss, it'll be the second time in a row Nintendo will bleed money. That's unprecedented for Nintendo and considering how much Nintendo cares about profits, that's bad for Iwata.

 

[Somnid]

Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Wii Fit U, and Game and Wario (and Lego City in the US) all are still "launch window." This was exactly Iwata's fix to the 3DS launch issues. The problem is all of them were probably supposed to be ready around launch so they could spread them over the post holiday period but I think they all suffered soft delays for polish. This is what the "launch window" song and dance was about, they kinda knew that things could spill over and refused to give hard dates. It seems likely they'll all start clumping in March. This will result in poor sales during January/February but I doubt it will effect the overall sales that much. They hardly have nothing though.

 

[Bumhead]

Nintendo (4,928 employees) is much, MUCH smaller than Microsoft (94,000 employees), Sony (162,700 employees), Samsung (369,000 employees), and even Apple (72,800 employees).

They have limited resources to pour into their studios. And, as I can infer from Yamauchi's post, they're struggling to adapt to the HD generation. You know...conglomerating small EAD studios, lowering their output, milking their best-sellers last gen, etc.

This is fine and everything, but I don't think that excuses anything.

If Nintendo's infrastructure, resource and business cannot support multiple products then it's not for consumers to pick up the can for that. IF HD development is REALLY that serious an issue for Nintendo, and developing games is going to be that much slower and compromised across a HD platform and a handheld for Nintendo, then they shouldn't have released the Wii U. To be honest, I think it's pretty disingenous thinking by Nintendo to release the Wii U unless they were 100% sure they could support both it and their existing products without compromising one or both.

 

[ASIS]

The problem with game development though is you can't really start a project today and get it out in three months, or rush one releasing 6-12 months later to get it out now, and actually get quality results.

They don't need new projects, just announce the current ones, put out earlier deadlines, and just make new trailers for the "new" projects they have.

 

[AzaK]

Terrible numbers for the Wii U. But the fact that those numbers still constitute about 45-50% of the home console market is kind off depressing.get to it Ninty.

Yeah, but one of them is at the end of its life. The other is brand new. But yes it's all pretty depressing.

 

[DrWong]

The "waggle" on the GamePad being much improved from Wii's one (9 axis controls vs 6 axis controls on wiimote), following your logic Mario Kart on Wii U should do very well.

More seriously, I wonder how Mario Kart will use the GamePad. Probably as a wheel, but what about the touchscreen?

Mario Kart pad usage is less of a concern to me, because with a game that depends so vitally on local MP, how integral could it be when many players will be using other controllers?

Getting a bit off-topic, but I hope we get some really creative asymmetric gameplay in Mario Kart U. Something which hearkens back to the Double Dash!! school of Mario Kart design, but is even more ambitious.

Yep, I'm expexcting a U Double Dash mode where the player with the Gamepad can shoot & grab stuff in 360° (and a level design adapted to this), local &/or online. And if Mario Kart U supports - it wouldn't suprise me - 2 Gamepad (feature should be coming at the end of this year) I can see a versus U Double Dash mode &/or a classic 6 local multiplayer mode (2 Gamepad + 4 wiimote).

 

[AOC83]

They don't need new projects, just announce the current ones, put out earlier deadlines, and just make new trailers for the "new" projects they have.

People won´t buy a WiiU just because game xy is announced. The games need to be there.

 

[AzaK]

By the end of this fiscal year, judging from the Wii U performances and it's being sold at a loss, it'll be the second time in a row Nintendo will bleed money. That's unprecedented for Nintendo and considering how much Nintendo cares about profits, that's bad for Iwata.

I do wonder if a machine more powerful would have helped sell it better. Games definitely would have but something exciting in the home doesn't hurt either.

 

[metalslimer]

Why exactly are people expecting Wii U Fit to be some huge thing again? That seems exactly like the kind of game that sells huge when you already have an audience, not something to make people buy a new console when they already have Wii Fit on the Wii.

I do wonder if a machine more powerful would have helped sell it better. Games definitely would have but something exciting in the home doesn't hurt either.

If they came out with the exact same games looking beter at a higher price it would have been a disaster. NSMBU is not the game to put your system's hopes on.

 

[disco]

Eeep! Iwata is going to sweating relentlessly. I know I am.

 

[DR2K]

I see no reason why the vita will sell twice as much as the Wii U.

It's a portable with a stream of games coming in vs a console with tumbleweed on the horizon.

 

[RukusProvider]

I think it's too early to say the market is rejecting the game pad. It's just not a gimmick like the Wiimote that sells hardware pretty much on its own. The Wii U needs more than just the Game Pad and that is software. So far, it's really lacking in that regard.

People don't pay 300$ and more only to be able to play a mini game collection, a port of a game they've already played on other platforms or a new Mario game that's pretty much the same game as the one they've already played on the DS, Wii and just recently on the 3DS. It's all a case of "Been there, done that". The Game Pad alone is just not interesting enough without software supporting it.

And that's the biggest problem for them. It was the opposite last time around which had the casuals flocking to them.

If you peel away the casuals, the Nintendo hardcore aren't there in great quantities compared to the potential pool of buyers for the 360/PS3.

The PlayStation base got split (and expanded) between the PS3 and 360.

Nintendo has done nothing with the WiiU to persuade that group to come over.

In summary, no casuals and no hardcore. It's a small customer base to work with and it'll hurt.

 

[Nightstick11]

Standard drops for the Wii U post-launch. I suppose the "herpderp Vita=Wii U" mob should get their hits in now, as that line has an expiration date.

 

[orioto]

I do wonder if a machine more powerful would have helped sell it better. Games definitely would have but something exciting in the home doesn't hurt either.

Probably not. God only knows what it takes for a console to be a success in Japan right now. But 100$ less in the price and appealing software would have helped.

 

[Hi i'm Caleb]

Wii U price drop and ambassador program inc!

 

[metalslimer]

Standard drops for the Wii U post-launch. I suppose the "herpderp Vita=Wii U" mob should get their hits in now, as that line has an expiration date.

"Standard"

It's a portable with a stream of games coming in vs a console with tumbleweed on the horizon.

A stream of games that won't sell any systems. It probably will happen Souls Sacrifice/ToH week though

 

[Baconsammy]

They don't need new projects, just announce the current ones, put out earlier deadlines, and just make new trailers for the "new" projects they have.

That won't sell consoles. Games in stores will. The problem is they don't have games that will attract back the huge chunk of the market that appeared to make the Wii a raging success. Those folks are gone, so some people need to lower the bar for Nintendo a bit (a lot). Their other huge problem is attracting back all the core gamers they lost by catering to non-gamers. The Wii U's hardware and features are obviously not doing it for those people, and probably never will in a meaningful way.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

They are sitting on milions of dollars - if they have internal problems what stops them from funding 3rd party exclusives as short term solution ?

They're already doing that too (Lego City, Bayo 2).

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

A stream of games that won't sell any systems. It probably will happen Souls Sacrifice/ToH week though

ToH looks so shitty, how much is that expected to sale?

 

[Daedardus]

The problem with game development though is you can't really start a project today and get it out in three months, or rush one releasing 6-12 months later to get it out now, and actually get quality results.

True. Nintendo's only major innovative release of the past year has been Animal Crossing New Leaf, a game that was announced at E3 2010 and still hasn't been released in the West.

It paid off though, so I hope they learn to actually put effort into the rest of their sequels.

 

[AzaK]

Eeep! Iwata is going to sweating relentlessly. I know I am.

He should be. From E3 2011 until now the Wii U marketting and delivery has been amateurish.

The problem is they don't have games that will attract back the huge chunk of the market that appeared to make the Wii a raging success. Those folks are gone, so some people need to lower the bar for Nintendo a bit (a lot). Their other huge problem is attracting back all the core gamers they lost by catering to non-gamers. The Wii U's hardware and features are obviously not doing it for those people, and probably never will in a meaningful way.

Yup. They abandoned their base audience (albeit dwindling one from two previous gens) to grab the easily wowed market where profits can be high. Unfortunately for whatever reason they did not take measures to keep the original audience so when cadusls lost interest in Wii or just bought a couple of titles no one was there to keep it pumping.

 

[RM8]

I'm not surprised at WiiU numbers, it has exactly zero system sellers. 2D Mario? It's doing better on 3DS.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Nintendo (4,928 employees) is much, MUCH smaller than Microsoft (94,000 employees), Sony (162,700 employees), Samsung (369,000 employees), and even Apple (72,800 employees).

These giant companies you are tallying have different aspects of business. SONY and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. are different sectors really. Microsoft and Apple you already know have a much bigger distribution of products for international markets.

They have limited resources to pour into their studios. And, as I can infer from Yamauchi's post, they're struggling to adapt to the HD generation. You know...conglomerating small EAD studios, lowering their output, milking their best-sellers last gen, etc.

Nintendo has sufficient R&D really, and they can release as many or more games this generation than last generation. I will tell you why. Even though the games are now "HD" and "3D", the staff sizes aren't dramatically different from the Wii U to Wii, and slightly bigger from the 3DS to DS. Main reason.. Nintendo still cuts corners with production values and online features.

Their main problem is that they have been a very conservative publisher. If you want proof, compare the amount of first-party games released in Japan for the Wii/3DS in comparison to international. Just look at Pandora's Tower, Last Story, and XenoBlade Chronicles. Three mid-large scale budget first-party releases in Japan that were almost meant to stay there if Nintendo had their wish.

 

[hiska-kun]

Chris1964, these are the MC sales from week 1, 2013 for Hot Shots Golf, Call of Duty and AKB1/149. So you can add the % for this week, knowing this:

21./19. [PS3] Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational # <SPT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2012.11.22} (¥4.980) - 20.192 / 240.371 (+2%)
22./28. [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.11.03} (¥4.800)
23./18. [PS3] Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Dubbed Edition <ACT> (Square Enix) {2012.12.20} (¥7.980) - 18.715 / 90.686 (-8%)
24./21. [3DS] Toriko: Gourmet Monsters! <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.12.13} (¥5.800)
25./26. [NDS] Pokèmon Black 2 / White 2 <RPG> (Pokèmon Co.) {2012.06.23} (¥4.800)
26./31. [3DS] Aikatsu! Cinderella Lesson <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.11.15} (¥5.040)
27./16. [PSP] AKB1/149: Love Election # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.12.20} (¥7.329) - 14.887 / 180.436 (-32%)
28./30. [WII] Inazuma Eleven Go Strikers 2013 <SPT> (Level 5) {2012.12.20} (¥4.980)
29./27. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate # <ACT> (Capcom) {2012.12.08} (¥4.800)
30./14. [3DS] Inazuma Eleven 1-2-3!! Endou Mamoru Densetsu <RPG> (Level 5) {2012.12.27} (¥5.800)

Once we get the MC top 2012, we can calculate Pokemon numbers, as well.

 

[Gorillaz]

OH yea we a definitely getting a new Smash Bros 4 trailer at E3

 

[Chris1964]

Right when I thought people had finally accepted Vita's situation we are back again into illusions.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

To turn things around in Japan they need to turn things around in West first.

Looking at Wii vs PS3 situation in Japan - Wii dominated totaly and yet PS3 was getting tons of games.

Why ?

Because put together HD twins had big western userbase which responded well to most traditional genres.

Because in 2004/2005 the industry at large decided to sink everything into the HD twins. PS3 had the benefit of the doubt thanks to PS2, and even when things didn't go as planned it still made more sense to stay the course and try to build on that all-in investment. Except in Japan, where a good chunk of game makers retreated to handhelds for the most part.

Killing it in the west wouldn't help Wii U in Japan. It didn't help Wii and it didn't hurt PSP, it won't matter now either.

 

[The Horror the horror]

That won't sell consoles. Games in stores will. The problem is they don't have games that will attract back the huge chunk of the market that appeared to make the Wii a raging success. Those folks are gone, so some people need to lower the bar for Nintendo a bit (a lot). Their other huge problem is attracting back all the core gamers they lost by catering to non-gamers. The Wii U's hardware and features are obviously not doing it for those people, and probably never will in a meaningful way.

Those folks are not "gone." What, tens of millions of Wii owners and casual gamers have suddenly disappeared or quit playing console video games? They surely didn't migrate to the PS3 or fully to the 360 (exempting the kinect customers). They're still there, waiting for the right games to pull them back into Nintendo's camp. The DS started off slow in attaining casual consumer interest, as well, catering mainly to Nintendo fans and handheld enthusiasts before Nintendogs and Brain Age came out, and after that, it absorbed practically the entire casual market.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

So basically Nintendo needs to put out Mario Kart for the Wii U, then it will start to sell.