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[pixlexic]

Though its 8 core, isn't 1.6ghz kind of slow? How fast were the CELL cores on the PS3 again?

It was when it was Wii-u only huh? lol

But cpus do not work the same way they did a few years ago. Think of old multi core cpus as a river that forks into 2 smaller slower tributaries with each thread forking the river even more getting smaller and slower.

The new cpus would be like 2 separate rivers running parallel not influencing each others size or speed, but both emptying into the same ocean.

 

[CLEEK]

The only thing that needs improvement is the crappy D-pad and the face buttons. Aside from that, the 360 controller is top-notch.

I always smile when I read this (very common) comment. As people always say on one hand that the 360 pad is near perfect, then go one to mention how some fundamental aspects of it are appalling! How can a pad be 'top notch' when the d-pad is practically unusable for games and and the chunky face buttons are uncomfortable? It's just saying your car is great, apart from the engine and chassis.

The great thing about the 360 pad is how comfortable it is for games that just uses sticks and triggers. For anything else, it's flawed. The DS3 is far more versatile, albeit with its own problems.

I hop both MS and Sony revise both their controllers, as their individual flaws are pretty obvious and simple to fix.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Could it be raw performance multipliers of the CPU, RAM, and GPU?

So you want to tell us that (going by the order of your post above)... 8x250 GFLOPS = 2 TFLOPS GPU? ~20 compute units?

PS: I will now go back and edit my post, just so that you guys know.

 

[MikeE21286]

I really hope only one SKU is bundled with Kinect 2.0, the other SKU being solely for the enthusiast. Make a few Kinect games here and there, i dont mind that, ill probably even get the next Dance Central game day 1. But just do not lose focus, do not get complacent

I hope we get the Microsoft of 2005-2008 back

I guess we could maybe see something like that.

Right now we have 3 main SKUs

1. 4GB
2. 4GB with Kinect
3. 250GB

SKU 2 and 3 cost the same. Maybe we get something that looks like SKU 2 and SKU 3 at launch, without a SKU 1.

The only way MS could do this, from a pricing perspective, is to launch both SKUs (the one with Kinect and the one without) at the same price. That way you're not "paying" for Kinect, it's only an opportunity cost. The SKU with Kinect can't cost more than the base SKU.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Absolutely. Both controllers are far from perfect with very simple-to-fix tweaks and changes that would please a huge amount of people. The 360's bumpers are hysterically poor but the overall ergonomics are excellent. The DS's triggers are still lamentable and many people comment on the looseness of the sticks. If either manages to develop a reversible stick-dpad element then good luck to them, but the important thing is to actually develop both properly first. "Placement" doesn't matter as much as build quality. Those who say they can't stand one placement over another would be happy if the build quality was better.

The special edition xbox controller with the changeable d-pad was better, but it broke on me after two weeks. I assume some people liked it, though.

 

[Spongebob]

16 x 512MB = 8GB

5 x 240GFLOPS = 1.2TFLOPS

8x = The GPU performance advantage over Xenos when taking efficiencies into account?

 

[thehypocrite]

16 x 512MB = 8GB

5 x 240GFLOPS = 1.2TFLOPS

8x = The GPU performance advantage over Xenos when taking efficiencies into account?

Raw performance.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Am I wrong to think that 6x-8x jump in performance in the 720 compared to the 360 is pathetic? What was the jump between the Xbox to the 360?

It has been 8 years and that's the best they can do?

It just doesn't make sense to me unless they are dropping the whole ten year cycle and going back to a 5-6 year cycle.

 

[SPDIF]

I can imagine what three blocks they're talking about, and at least two of them will help with graphics, although one is more general purpose. I have a special fondness for the third, since I spent many hours coming to terms with it's idiosyncracies.

So I wonder what this was about?

 

[Proelite]

So I wonder what this was about?

Just fooling around. Don't read too much into it.

 

[Psychotext]

Don't read too much into it, or you'll be next.

:O

 

[Proelite]

Am I wrong to think that 6x-8x jump in performance in the 720 compared to the 360 is pathetic? What was the jump between the Xbox to the 360?

It has been 8 years and that's the best they can do?

It just doesn't make sense to me unless they are dropping the whole ten year cycle and going back to a 5-6 year cycle.

At least 8x performance jump in raw GPU performance on paper.
10-12x jump in useable ram
>=3 times jump in ram bandwidth
4-5x jump in CPU horsepower.
>3x jump in embedded ram.

This isn't even counting the audio / video dsps, the special sauces, the improved tools etc.

IMO easily a traditional generation leap. The ram itself is 2x a generation leap.

I think when the next Durango focused article comes out, people will be switching their tunes, at least until the next Orbis article comes out.

Rollercoaster.

 

[StevieP]

You'll probably need it for the next gen console ports.

Nope.

 

[onQ123]

So I wonder what this was about?

my bet is that the 3rd one is for Kinect \ Voice Recognition.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So I wonder what this was about?

Oh damn! did Leadbetter get Bkilian in trouble?

 

[oversitting]

At least 8x performance jump in raw GPU performance on paper.
10-12x jump in useable ram
>=3 times jump in ram bandwidth
4-5x jump in CPU horsepower.
>3x jump in embedded ram.

This isn't even counting the audio / video dsps, the special sauces, the improved tools etc.

IMO easily a traditional generation leap. The ram itself is 2x a generation leap.

I think when the next Durango focused article comes out, people will be switching their tunes, at least until the next Orbis article comes out.

Rollercoaster.

I really do wonder what the wizard jizz is.

 

[onQ123]

At least 8x performance jump in raw GPU performance on paper.
10-12x jump in useable ram
>=3 times jump in ram bandwidth
4-5x jump in CPU horsepower.
>3x jump in embedded ram.

This isn't even counting the audio / video dsps, the special sauces, the improved tools etc.

IMO easily a traditional generation leap. The ram itself is 2x a generation leap.

I think when the next Durango focused article comes out, people will be switching their tunes, at least until the next Orbis article comes out.

Rollercoaster.

on paper Xbox 360 GPU has 240 GFLOPs , 8 x that would be 1.92 TFLOPs


has something changed?

 

[i-Lo]

on paper Xbox 360 GPU has 240 GFLOPs , 8 x that would be 1.92 TFLOPs


has something changed?

Might be the secret sauce/wizard's jizz.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Oh damn! did Leadbetter get Bkilian in trouble?

He might just be playing it safe given how much info that article seems to have pulled from that thread.

 

[onQ123]

Might be the secret sauce/wizard's jizz.

"this isn't even counting the audio / video dsps, the special sauces, the improved tools etc."

 

[GarthVaderUK]

I think when the next Durango focused article comes out, people will be switching their tunes, at least until the next Orbis article comes out.

A lot of people seem to have already decided that faster RAM makes Orbis > Durango, really think tunes will be changed?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

So I wonder what this was about?

Oh damn! did Leadbetter get Bkilian in trouble?

He might just be playing it safe given how much info that article seems to have pulled from that thread.

Hmm, this is interesting. So Leadbetter is scooping that thread for info and guy edits post to put him off the scent?

 

[sholvaco]

A bit of speculation on my side; if the rumored performance gap is real and MS felt the pressure to close it, they could still opt for enabling the two GPU compute units that get fused off for production yield reasons (assuming they do have backups). The total number would be brought to 14 CUs or 896 SPs which would increase compute performance to 1,43 TFLOPS. Additionally they could bump GPU clocks (speculated 800 MHz) by 50 MHz to 850 MHz resulting in ~1.52 TFLOPS.

Of course yields would take a nose dive and the chip might end up costing them by an integer factor more than initially projected. Would they be willing to eat the costs and sell at a loss for a moderate gain?

Alternatively they could delay the launch by 6 months, redesign to match or exceed the PS4 GPU and opt for stacked wide I/O memory instead of eDRAM further increasing performance at a reduced? production cost. If I'm not mistaken one of the consoles was rumored to be delayed to 2014?

 

[pixlexic]

I am betting it will play all windows 8 RT games and apps as well.

 

[Proelite]

A lot of people seem to have already decided that faster RAM makes Orbis > Durango, really think tunes will be changed?

When honest developer opinions surfaces, yes.

It's not like Durango's ram is slower than it needs to be.

 

[Proelite]

A bit of speculation on my side; if the rumored performance gap is real and MS felt the pressure to close it, they could still opt for enabling the two GPU compute units that get fused off for production yield reasons (assuming they do have backups). The total number would be brought to 14 CUs or 896 SPs which would increase compute performance to 1,43 TFLOPS. Additionally they could bump GPU clocks (speculated 800 MHz) by 50 MHz to 850 MHz resulting in ~1.52 TFLOPS.

They can bump the clock from 800mhz to 1ghz more easily than from 12 CUs to 14 CUs.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I am betting it will play all windows 8 RT games and apps as well.

What RT games and apps? And RT is for ARM.

I think some people keeping saying RT as they think it's some super lightweight W8 distro or something.

 

[pixlexic]

What RT games and apps? And RT is for ARM.

RT development is the exact same as XNA. New Metro apps run on both windows 8 and 8 RT

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

When honest developer opinions surfaces, yes.

does such a thing exist

 

[specialguy]

A lot of people seem to have already decided that faster RAM makes Orbis > Durango, really think tunes will be changed?

yeah and i dont necessarily agree. sometimes it seems like people have preconceived biases.

eg, ps4 has x and durango doesn't, so x is suddenly built up as some great thing. conversely durango has y and ps4 doesn't, but people mostly ignore/downplay y.

in this case x=faster ram and y=greater quantity of ram.

 

[StevieP]

does such a thing exist

Nope.

Especially when MS' tool set is as good as it is. If I hear "special sauce" one more time I'm going to face plant.

 

[oversitting]

What RT games and apps? And RT is for ARM.

I think some people keeping saying RT as they think it's some super lightweight W8 distro or something.

ARM emulation on x86 if pretty easy. 8 jaguar cores can easily emulate the tegra 3 inside the Surface.

You can play Android games on your PC right now with software, not all of it works but microsoft should be able to work on it if they wanted to.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

At least 8x performance jump in raw GPU performance on paper.
10-12x jump in useable ram
>=3 times jump in ram bandwidth
4-5x jump in CPU horsepower.
>3x jump in embedded ram.

This isn't even counting the audio / video dsps, the special sauces, the improved tools etc.

IMO easily a traditional generation leap. The ram itself is 2x a generation leap.

I think when the next Durango focused article comes out, people will be switching their tunes, at least until the next Orbis article comes out.

Rollercoaster.

But it has not been a traditional generation.

A "traditional" generational jump after 8 years to me raises alarms.

 

[specialguy]

They can bump the clock from 800mhz to 1ghz more easily than from 12 CUs to 14 CUs.

yup, i'm hoping for a clock bump. Even 10% to 880mhz would be something. that would increase flops to ~1.35.

Heat is practically the number one enemy of consoles though, and MS seems to be stupidly deciding performance isnt important based on their decisions so far, so, yeah.

 

[PG2G]

What RT games and apps? And RT is for ARM.

I think some people keeping saying RT as they think it's some super lightweight W8 distro or something.

WinRT is technically the API for "Windows Store" apps. Not to be confused with Windows RT which is the ARM version of the OS.

RT development is the exact same as XNA. New Metro apps run on both windows 8 and 8 RT

This isn't true, XNA is not supported by "Windows Store" apps or even in Windows Phone 8 apps (it does support them in a backward compatibility mode though)

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Hmm, this is interesting. So Leadbetter is scooping that thread for info and guy edits post to put him off the scent?

BGAssassin was specifically quoted I think, I'm sure a Durango article is in the works, and some of Bkilian's quotes would be nice fodder to fill up a page...

 

[oversitting]

Nope.

Especially when MS' tool set is as good as it is. If I hear "special sauce" one more time I'm going to face plant.

Wizard's Jizz is the better term anyways.

 

[Karma]

yeah and i dont necessarily agree. sometimes it seems like people have preconceived biases.

eg, ps4 has x and durango doesn't, so x is suddenly built up as some great thing. conversely durango has y and ps4 doesn't, but people mostly ignore/downplay y.

in this case x=faster ram and y=greater quantity of ram.

If the specs ended up with PS4 having more but slower RAM the same people would find a way to then say that was the better way.

 

[pixlexic]

yeah and i dont necessarily agree. sometimes it seems like people have preconceived biases.

eg, ps4 has x and durango doesn't, so x is suddenly built up as some great thing. conversely durango has y and ps4 doesn't, but people mostly ignore/downplay y.

in this case x=faster ram and y=greater quantity of ram.

Faster ram doesn't make it better if you have a slower pipeline to feed that ram from ..say a hdd. You just end up with a machine that can clear its buffers really fast.

More, slightly slower ram that doesn't have to page memory to another source is going to cut down on texture stream issues and those annoying ram load "pauses"

 

[specialguy]

i notice this thread, the df foundry thread, the ps4 spec thread, they are all garnering very healthy view counts in a short time...

let this be a lesson steviep, people want gfx lol.

 

[sholvaco]

They can bump the clock from 800mhz to 1ghz more easily than from 12 CUs to 14 CUs.

That could work too, but they'd also have to redesign the cooling/packaging as a clock increase of this magnitude would have a profound effect on TDP.

 

[StevieP]

8 jaguar cores can easily emulate the tegra 3 inside the Surface.

What is this I don't even

let this be a lesson steviep, people want gfx lol.

Us people. Normal folk care a lot less.

 

[Can Crusher]

does such a thing exist

Of course. Why would devs lie?

 

[specialguy]

Faster ram doesn't make it better if you have a slower pipeline to feed that ram from ..say a hdd. You just end up with a machine that can clear its buffers really fast.

More, slightly slower ram that doesn't have to page memory to another source is going to cut down on texture stream issues and those annoying ram load "pauses"

yup, i try to point this out a lot as durango fanboy defender. i mean i very well may lose and ps4 ends up blowing away 720, but i'm not convinced thats decided yet like some are.

everybody looks at the flops and ignores that durango has quite the hefty ram edge. more if they are able to reduce the os overhead in the future.

 

[i-Lo]

i notice this thread, the df foundry thread, the ps4 spec thread, they are all garnering very healthy view counts in a short time...

let this be a lesson steviep, people want gfx lol.

So... XB3 has better specs. Oh well, Sony's ship has been sinkin' anyway with Vita and perhaps this'll be their last console. Bring it MS and Steambox.

 

[Proelite]

But it has not been a traditional generation.

A "traditional" generational jump after 8 years to me raises alarms.

Well, honestly the jump from Xbox to 360 wasn't that impressive in the real world. For a while games were Xbox 1.5 caliber.

 

[Can Crusher]

If the specs ended up with PS4 having more but slower RAM the same people would find a way to then say that was the better way.

It is known.

 

[nib95]

If the specs ended up with PS4 having more but slower RAM the same people would find a way to then say that was the better way.

Lol, doubtful. There's a reason every new high end GPU on the market comes with GDDR5 instead of far cheaper DDR3. DDR3 is typically used for system ram, not video ram. Having said that I'm sure many devs will get more use out of more DDR3 compared to less GDDR5. But I'd imagine as graphical features intensify, and devs start pushing the boat, that GDDR5 will start seeing serious advantages.

 

[oversitting]

What is this I don't even



Us people. Normal folk care a lot less.

hmmm?
http://www.amd.com/us/vision/shop/cool-apps/pages/androidapps.aspx

 

[CrunchinJelly]

BGAssassin was specifically quoted I think, I'm sure a Durango article is in the works, and some of Bkilian's quotes would be nice fodder to fill up a page...

So does Leadbetter actually have any of his own leads?