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[James Sawyer Ford]

But there are so many unknowns in Durango specs so I am not going to many any judgement until there are more credible leaks.
Only if rumored specs are true, then well..

Sure, I'll reserve final judgment obviously once we get the full picture.

Problem is, we apparently know a WHOLE LOT about the core pieces. So, unless the secret sauce amounts to something substantial (which I seriously doubt), then what we see today is what we're going to get.

 

[Sid]

But wasn't the RSX based of the GTX 7800?

Yeah and the RSX has half the ROPs of the 7800 believe.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

This will be the first generation of consoles I'm actually contemplating day one. I have an awesome pc and I might just use the money on 2 7 series gpu, when they launch. I know I'll get the consoles but probs not day 1

 

[Sid]

This will be the first generation of consoles I'm actually contemplating day one. I have an awesome pc and I might just use the money on 2 7 series gpu, when they launch. I know I'll get the consoles but probs not day 1

Yeah if you're just waiting on the exclusives lineup to fill up you may want to get on later.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Yeah, I'm thinking what it will amount to is basically PS4 games running at 60 fps and Durango games running at 30 fps.

Again, if rumored specs are true...the gap is far wider than it was this gen.

See this is the part that gets me. How is it that Sony possibly got the jump on MS in terms of rumored specs? I understand MS is going for the set top but...

 

[nbthedude]

Not even close to being the same considering that the PS3 uses 512MB combined memory for both the system AND the GPU while the specs there have 2GB of system RAM and the 7900 has 512/256MB of GPU RAM.

Ok, well yes, PC games generally require more RAM due to Windows. I wont argue that. But that type optimization is not that important or impressive. RAM is cheap and easy to upgrade.

But that doesnt have much to do with making up the gap between a moble AMD chip and an I5.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

All I am doing is looking at these current rumored specs. I have no way of knowing whether or not these specs are true. But I am telling you that if they are, that $600 PC build I listed would be considerably more powerful.

Wasn't there also a point of the RAM being a bit different than what you included?

Anyway, yeah... just stop.

 

[kpjolee]

See this is the part that gets me. How is it that Sony possibly got the jump on MS in terms of rumored specs? I understand MS is going for the set top but...

It really depends on their performance target rather than their engineering capabilities.

 

[Noirulus]

Ok, well yes, PC games generally require more RAM due to Windows. I wont argue that. But that type optimization is not that important or impressive. RAM is cheap and easy to upgrade.

But that doesnt have much to do with making up the gap between a moble AMD chip and an I5.

I'm not at all arguing the logistics of AMD vs I5, my position in this discussion only started as an offshoot because of the console optimization comment, which is an important point to consider because consoles are fully dedicated to gaming while PCs aren't.

 

[B.O.O.M]

See this is the part that gets me. How is it that Sony possibly got the jump on MS in terms of rumored specs? I understand MS is going for the set top but...

Entirely depends on the focus of the company.

 

[beast786]

Or more like the same with the same. Crysis ran at around 32fps on a 7900 at slightly higher than 720p at medium settings. Keep in mind that is an open world game that is pretty damn impressive even today.

http://www.techspot.com/article/73-crysis-performance/page3.html

Here is Skyrim running on a 7900:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=IBhk_bPan6U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DIBhk_bPan6U

Those test were done on machines with 4 times as much Memory as PS3

x2 1024MB Corsair

it was obvious this gen console were bottleneck at the RAM. your comparison doesn't work

EDIT : beaten

 

[nbthedude]

I'm not at all arguing the logistics of AMD vs I5, my position in this discussion only started as an offshoot because of the console optimization comment, which is an important point to consider because consoles are fully dedicated to gaming while PCs aren't.

Well if we want to talk about optimization in terms of RAM usage, I wouldnt argue that point, in fact it seems obvious.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I'm not at all arguing the logistics of AMD vs I5, my position in this discussion only started as an offshoot because of the console optimization comment, which is an important point to consider because consoles are fully dedicated to gaming while PCs aren't.

Right, but I'm not so sure about that going into next generation, at least not for MS. If anything, I think maybe Sony will be going back to the Playstation bit whereas MS will push more and more OS/Media/Entertainment features.

 

[wizzbang]

Any rumours on region locks yet people? Anything? I know a lot of Aussies who love their PS3. I think it's game over for us if they go back to locking. I'm not paying 90 to 120$ US for games again, I've gotten accustomed to paying US prices.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Any rumours on region locks yet people? Anything? I know a lot of Aussies who love their PS3. I think it's game over for us if they go back to locking. I'm not paying 90 to 120$ US for games again, I've gotten accustomed to paying US prices.

I seriously doubt it will happen for either Orbis/Durango

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

See this is the part that gets me. How is it that Sony possibly got the jump on MS in terms of rumored specs? I understand MS is going for the set top but...

From a post on B3D that I agree with:

I think all the people conjecturing ways that Durango will make up the difference with Orbis are somewhat missing the point.

As per the leaked roadmap, MS were aiming for 6-8x the performance of the 360, the specs we have are precisely that. They didn't know what kind of power Sony was going for, and from this gen with the Wii, they know that performance doesn't equate to sales.

 

[wizzbang]

I seriously doubt it will happen for either Orbis/Durango

I'm not sure if you're saying it will be region free or won't be region free (my fault, how I worded my original post)

Also speculation - I doubt they'll make it region free too (if that's what you're saying) but I was hoping someone may have heard some kind of rumours. To my knowledge I don't think a single journalist has even mentioned it at this point :/

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

When graphs, Toms Hardware and Anandtech starts showing up, you know that thread has gone to shitter. It shows how much they know about technology and how less you know. It's a scientific fact, dawg!!1!1!!111

 

[oversitting]

From a post on B3D that I agree with:

I think all the people conjecturing ways that Durango will make up the difference with Orbis are somewhat missing the point.

As per the leaked roadmap, MS were aiming for 6-8x the performance of the 360, the specs we have are precisely that. They didn't know what kind of power Sony was going for, and from this gen with the Wii, they know that performance doesn't equate to sales.

We are missing a lot of things. Those specs aren't even clear. Even the places they are quoted from aren't clear on them.

I would say the people who are trusted saying they are close in power, not from some leaked specs are more useful to gauge performance than incomplete specs.

 

[beast786]

From a post on B3D that I agree with:

I think all the people conjecturing ways that Durango will make up the difference with Orbis are somewhat missing the point.

As per the leaked roadmap, MS were aiming for 6-8x the performance of the 360, the specs we have are precisely that. They didn't know what kind of power Sony was going for, and from this gen with the Wii, they know that performance doesn't equate to sales.

it did effect the longevity of the system. Nintendo was forced to be first with wii u even though the were close to last to launch with wii.

maybe Sony is thinking 7 years again

 

[Ashes]

From a post on B3D that I agree with:

I think all the people conjecturing ways that Durango will make up the difference with Orbis are somewhat missing the point.

As per the leaked roadmap, MS were aiming for 6-8x the performance of the 360, the specs we have are precisely that. They didn't know what kind of power Sony was going for, and from this gen with the Wii, they know that performance doesn't equate to sales.

Maybe they're going for £50 cheaper rig?

I honestly don't think so. But we'll see..

 

[Noirulus]

Right, but I'm not so sure about that going into next generation, at least not for MS. If anything, I think maybe Sony will be going back to the Playstation bit whereas MS will push more and more OS/Media/Entertainment features.

It's a curious thing what MS is planning on doing with the Durango. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but if the 3GB Memory for OS thing is true, I somewhat doubt that it's purely for OS/Media/Entertainment. Maybe they want to push something else entirely?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

it did effect the longevity of the system. Nintendo was forced to be first with wii u even though the were close to last to launch with wii.

maybe Sony is thinking 7 years again

Well, the jump for Durango is going to be good. It's not a Wii situation at all. It's a next-gen leap, just not as much as Orbis (from what we know).

Maybe they're going for £50 cheaper rig?

I honestly don't think so. But we'll see..

I think they're offsetting some performance costs by the inclusion of next-gen Kinect.

 

[Monumental]

Pretty much every impression and dev leak: Orbis and Durango are going to be closer than ever and each will have it's advantages and disadvantages
Posts from SonyGaf: The gap is going to be wider than 360/PS3 because of 50% more graphics performance and 3x faster RAM.

It's about an ignorant view of "numbers" as you can get. It's extra amusing because the same people are quick to berate others for just "looking at numbers on paper" when someone says that Durango has twice the RAM.

 

[subversus]

I'm not saying PC gaming doesn't have its place, it has a huge one and for a lot of people it's the place to be. It's just getting annoying seeing people act like consoles are nothing but overpriced gaming PCs.

they are

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Pretty much every impression and dev leak: Orbis and Durango are going to be closer than ever and each will have it's advantages and disadvantages
Posts from SonyGaf: The gap is going to be wider than 360/PS3 because of 50% more graphics performance and 3x faster RAM.

It's about an ignorant view of "numbers" as you can get. It's extra amusing because the same people are quick to berate others for just "looking at numbers on paper" when someone says that Durango has twice the RAM.

All I know is that the whole "number" talk is similar to that current-gen initial reaction where PS3 looked good on numbers than 360. We all know how that turned out.

I won't compare until we see some playable games.

 

[XtremeXpider]

From a post on B3D that I agree with:

I think all the people conjecturing ways that Durango will make up the difference with Orbis are somewhat missing the point.

As per the leaked roadmap, MS were aiming for 6-8x the performance of the 360, the specs we have are precisely that. They didn't know what kind of power Sony was going for, and from this gen with the Wii, they know that performance doesn't equate to sales.

But the leaked roadmap is from 2010...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Pretty much every impression and dev leak: Orbis and Durango are going to be closer than ever and each will have it's advantages and disadvantages
Posts from SonyGaf: The gap is going to be wider than 360/PS3 because of 50% more graphics performance and 3x faster RAM.

It's about an ignorant view of "numbers" as you can get. It's extra amusing because the same people are quick to berate others for just "looking at numbers on paper" when someone says tat Durango has twice the RAM.

We don't have enough developer comments, and certainly nothing too concrete from them.

All we have are the leaked specs -- which clearly show Orbis being more powerful to a degree that is far larger than PS3/360 this gen, even taking into account less quantity of RAM.

I don't see how stating that based on current information the power divide is not insignificant is somehow an "ignorant" view of the numbers. This view could change with more information about both consoles.

But the leaked roadmap is from 2010...

Just because it's old doesn't mean they've deviated from that plan.

 

[Reiko]

All I know is that the whole "number" talk is similar to that current-gen initial reaction where PS3 looked good on numbers than 360. We all know how that turned out.

I won't compare until we see some playable games.

It's Xbox 1.5 again.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

It's Xbox 1.5 again.

Chad Warden up in this blitzkrieg! Don't you know that it cures Cancer, and that military uses it?! That alone makes it more powerful!

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Pretty much every impression and dev leak: Orbis and Durango are going to be closer than ever and each will have it's advantages and disadvantages
Posts from SonyGaf: The gap is going to be wider than 360/PS3 because of 50% more graphics performance and 3x faster RAM.

It's about an ignorant view of "numbers" as you can get. It's extra amusing because the same people are quick to berate others for just "looking at numbers on paper" when someone says that Durango has twice the RAM.

The architecture will probably be as close as ever. Not necessarily the speed.

All I know is that the whole "number" talk is similar to that current-gen initial reaction where PS3 looked good on numbers than 360. We all know how that turned out.

I won't compare until we see some playable games.

The problem of the PS3 was it's exotic architecture that made it hard for devs to fully utilize the power of the Cell. They won't have these problems anymore.

 

[ghst]

See this is the part that gets me. How is it that Sony possibly got the jump on MS in terms of rumored specs? I understand MS is going for the set top but...

i think it's reasonable to expect kinect to come packed in. the device's raison d'etre is to become emperor of the living room, injecting microsoft's metro-oriented ecosystem into your family's faces at every waking opportunity.

so if you've got kinect in there and mass market designs, that already leaves the spec budget looking a little slim; then comes the issue of memory.

to keep a veritable living room OS chugging away in the background, you don't need fast memory, you just need lots of it. PCs deal with this by splitting their memory in to slow general purpose RAM and fast video RAM, but it's an expensive solution not generally suited for consoles. microsoft can't afford to field 8GBs of GDDR5, so they've gone back to their design of slow system ram being complemented by on-die eSRAM/eDRAM.

the result of this is significantly reduced bandwidth compared with the potential of GDDR5, given a sufficiently wide bus. rumours state 100 GB/s vs. 192 GB/s for the PS4 (though i believe it'll be closer to 170).

then we get to the GPU, where microsoft are already painted in to a corner. price ceiling prohibits them from some monster bleeding edge chip and bandwidth limitations mean even if they did pack in a monster bleeding edge chip, it would be severely bottlenecked.

 

[Reiko]

The architecture will probably be as close as ever. Not necessarily the speed.

You saw final specs for Durango and Orbis?

 

[Monumental]

All I know is that the whole "number" talk is similar to that current-gen initial reaction where PS3 looked good on numbers than 360. We all know how that turned out.

I won't compare until we see some playable games.

What're you implying? On one hand we had the PS3 and on the other we had the measly Xbox 1.5. Have you not seen the numbers and the Perfect Dark Zero wallguy?

 

[demolitio]

Pretty much every impression and dev leak: Orbis and Durango are going to be closer than ever and each will have it's advantages and disadvantages
Posts from SonyGaf: The gap is going to be wider than 360/PS3 because of 50% more graphics performance and 3x faster RAM.

It's about an ignorant view of "numbers" as you can get. It's extra amusing because the same people are quick to berate others for just "looking at numbers on paper" when someone says that Durango has twice the RAM.

How about we say ALL sides are jumping to useless conclusions when we don't even know enough concrete information to say either way? That includes saying they're closer than ever with nothing more than rumors to go by...

I don't see how people are fanboys for just talking about specs either, but I guess we all have to choose sides and be angry at each other for no reason...There's way too many assumptions as if everyone is an insider anymore. We all can read rumors.

We're all gamers and I really don't get the mentality that you're either on one side or the other even if you just discuss specs.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

You saw final specs for Durango and Orbis?

I don't need to see the final specs to know that both consoles will use chips from AMD with similar architecture. It's a lot different then what we have now, with Cell, nvidia RSX, Xenon, ATI Xenos ...

 

[jsnepo]

It's Xbox 1.5 again.

It's Xbox 540.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What're you implying? On one hand we had the PS3 and on the other we had the measly Xbox 1.5. Have you not seen the numbers and the Perfect Dark Zero wallguy?

Motorstorm and Killzone trailers look so good! Only in PS3 will we get true motion capture and actors like Andy Serkis. Oh and UT keyboard/mouse support!

Enjoy your shitty Xbox Live lulz.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What're you implying? On one hand we had the PS3 and on the other we had the measly Xbox 1.5. Have you not seen the numbers and the Perfect Dark Zero wallguy?

Last gen we also had "CELL's secret sauce", and then the cold hard numbers about Xenos vs. RSX...

 

[Uno Venova]

Things can get real heated if you suggest orbis may be more powerful based on the specs released so far.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I'm not sure if you're saying it will be region free or won't be region free (my fault, how I worded my original post)

Also speculation - I doubt they'll make it region free too (if that's what you're saying) but I was hoping someone may have heard some kind of rumours. To my knowledge I don't think a single journalist has even mentioned it at this point :/

That would be my bad I should have worded my answer better. No I don't think either console will or should be region locked. Not only from a consumer point of view but even from a business point of view I see no reason to do so

 

[Reiko]

Oh well, pack it up guys. According to this current rumor:

Durango

Orbis

 

[Margalis]

I find it very odd that the WiiU RAM is, according to Gaf's self-styled experts, a crippling bottleneck, yet the Durango, which uses the same type of slow RAM and can chew through it much more quickly thanks to greater horsepower, is somehow not bottlenecked via the magic of eDRAM or something mumble mumble ( even though the WiiU also has eDRAM.)

People freaked out when they found out that the WiiU has double the RAM of the 360 but uses a slow RAM type. But the Durango apparently has double the RAM of the Orbis and the same slow RAM type as the WiiU.

I'm not saying that this is some sort of obvious Durango design flaw, but I do question the objectivity of people who see the WiiU RAM setup as dire and the Durango setup as perfectly fine. If you believe that slow RAM is a bottleneck on the WiiU you almost certainly have to also believe it's a bottleneck on Durango, which has more RAM and higher horsepower and thus needs higher bandwidth just to break even vs WiiU.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Just because it's old doesn't mean they've deviated from that plan.

Just check again the doc, you will find wrong dates (change on the plan?) and info.

I find it very odd that the WiiU RAM is, according to Gaf's self-styled experts, a crippling bottleneck, yet the Durango, which uses the same type of slow RAM and can chew through it much more quickly thanks to greater horsepower, is somehow not bottlenecked via the magic of eDRAM or something mumble mumble ( even though the WiiU also has eDRAM.)

Same type of ram, different clock and bus.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

PlayStation Delta (forth greek letter)

PlayStation D

PSD

This sounds really cool.

Good idea!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Just check again the doc, you will find wrong dates (change on the plan?) and info.

I'm sure not everything has been followed to a T, but again the general performance target may have not changed from their initial plan.

 

[Ashes]

I think they're offsetting some performance costs by the inclusion of next-gen Kinect.

Perhaps. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a bait and switch to a 2 teraflop gpu from Microsoft right at the death.

They know devs talk. Best way to conceal rumours is to give out initial goals then low ball gpus then really ramp it up in the final kit. boom.

/conspiracy theory hat off.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I find it very odd that the WiiU RAM is, according to Gaf's self-styled experts, a crippling bottleneck, yet the Durango, which uses the same type of slow RAM and can chew through it much more quickly thanks to greater horsepower, is somehow not bottlenecked via the magic of eDRAM or something mumble mumble ( even though the WiiU also has eDRAM.)

People freaked out when they found out that the WiiU has double the RAM of the 360 but uses a slow RAM type. But the Durango apparently has double the RAM of the Orbis and the same slow RAM type as the WiiU.

I'm not saying that this is some sort of obvious Durango design flaw, but I do question the objectivity of people who see the WiiU RAM setup as dire and the Durango setup as perfectly fine. If you believe that slow RAM is a bottleneck on the WiiU you almost certainly have to also believe it's a bottleneck on Durango, which has more RAM and higher horsepower and thus needs higher bandwidth just to break even vs WiiU.

I might be wrong here but I thought both speed and amount wise durango > wiiu Ram by a mile. Isn't the wiiu ram like 1 GB for games?

 

[Reiko]

Perhaps. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a bait and switch to a 2 teraflop gpu from Microsoft.

They know devs talk. Best way to conceal rumours is to give out initial goals then low ball gpus then really ramp it up in the final kit. boom.

/conspiracy theory hat off.

Would be funny if both consoles have been low balled to drive up speculation.

 

[Ashes]

Would be funny if both consoles have been low balled to drive up speculation.

edit: Just to be clear, it's a lot harder than just throwing in a higher spec gpu. There's all kind of balance issues. So you know... who knows really?