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What does NEOGAF think of the graphics on Wii U's second wave of games
- Thread starter CrisKre
- Start date
TDLink
Member
Check out my previous post
The grass pop in is likely because the game is incomplete. Not even Xenoblade suffered from that, as it employed a graceful fade in approach for its LOD models.
Anyway, if you think it's not a technically impressive game, that's good and all, but I beg to differ. Take this shot for example:
For one, the draw distance is as good as it gets. It's clear as daylight with no standard current-gen fog to cleverly limit the draw distance. It also doesn't look sparse like many games with high draw distances. Sure, it uses LOD, but the majority of open world games in existence, whether console or PC, utilize LOD, or else you'd be stuck with crappy pop ins. It's not really a 'trick', but a standard design choice employed to maximize performance.
Another thing to note is the high quality self shadowing. The sword is casting a smooth shadow on the player's back. A lot games now do employ self shadowing though only to a certain extent, as the majority of its implementation is limited to main characters only and a limited amount of props. Take a look at the following GIF:
Pay attention to the smaller enemy. Not only is there self shadowing, but there is also a highly detailed shadow cast from the tree above onto the enemy, meaning there's dynamic projective shadowing cast from static environment objects onto dynamic objects. It's all realtime. When taking into account the scale of the game, that's bloody impressive. Also, as mentioned in my other post, the foliage is marvelous.
I also just realized the environment casts a reflection onto the water in both GIFs. Not a big deal at all, but at least we're gone from the awful Xenoblade water
This screen capture also shows that high-resolution normal maps and specular maps are being used, since even at that close distance, the detail on the enemy still holds up well.
Guess that's where the added RAM comes in handy. If the game manages to keep a locked framerate and a minimum 720p resolution, it will certainly be a lot more than just decent in comparison to PS3 and 360 titles.
Time will tell I guess.
Also, IIRC, Skyrim does use LOD, though probably not as effectively as some would've hoped.
Easily my favourite post in this topic, bravo.
Put me in the "X" looks better than PS3/360 camp. I am sure Orbis/Durango are going to look better than this even but considering we haven't definitively seen those games this is pretty damn good and our first real look at something beyond PS3/360 on a console.
I don't know what the people who are saying this looks bad are smoking. Yeah each of these pieces that have been broken down by Ydahs can be done on PS3 or 360, but not all at once as they are being done here, with this massive draw distance. Plus let's not forget this is the first trailer for the game and it is likely a year to two years away from release. Plenty of time for improvement even on this, and it definitely will improve what with some missing animations and stuff like inconsistent water (clearly seen in the two different locations in the 2nd gif).
He really is funny as hell.
exmachina64
Banned
eatcrow.jpg
I was wrong and I admit it.
I was wrong and I admit it.
phosphor112
Banned
I mainly posted it because Remij posted that twitter post, and then the response... so I thought it was appropriate.
I totally agree. I would even say nothing on 360/ps3 comes close to wonderful 101 at 60fps
Self_Destructive
Member
What does that have to do with anything?
yeeeeeah i dunno man. opinions and all, but that FC3 footage looks pretty bad. constant pop in, what looks like lower res assets, etc. The difference is it doesn't look tailor made for that console like something like X or Halo 4 (a much more compelling example of parity imo).
Maybe it looks better in person but I thought FC3 had performance issues on consoles(?). X admittedly had some foliage pop in too, and it does have less trees in the specific areas shown. X just seems to retain better detail at farther distances, but it's a bit hard to tell via youtube.
Lee Chaolan
Member
I'm impressed, and very excited. Ydahs post explains it pretty well.
The most interesting is Yoshi's Epic Yarn. It's funny how close that looks, sans the HD. Still will pick it up.
The most interesting is Yoshi's Epic Yarn. It's funny how close that looks, sans the HD. Still will pick it up.
XtremeXpider
Member
Xbox 360 level.
I prefer this:
I prefer this:
phosphor112
Banned
I don't think anyone has ragged on it's scale. It's fantastic.
My brother and I agreed that the draw distance on X was more impressive (it's in that log i posted above), we just both agree that it's barren. There is nothing it's really doing to have to have such pop-in. At most in that footage, we see spires and trees. Once I see the footage of that big structure in the background, I'll probably sing a different tune, but from THAT trailer, we don't see anything more impressive than what the 360 and PS3 have already achieved.
Note: I'm not saying the Wii U is weaker. It'll achieve better graphics than the current HD twins.
Welp, thread over, this guy won.
Xbox 360 level.
I prefer this:
You prefer getting chased by foxes? Ok...
phosphor112
Banned
Xbox 360 level.
I prefer this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5TQDeoump4
Much more impressive than the X trailer.
XtremeXpider
Member
Well... it is funny xD
A lot, and I guess GTA5 will be more impressive.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
That is the fucking joke lol
A video of the final build of RDR against an early build of X, which still manages to look better.
Bravo!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Can't really compare yet. One is a completed game, the other is still in development. Some of the texture work in X is impressive, but again not much to go on.
XtremeXpider
Member
Lol no.
phosphor112
Banned
Lol, fuck it. I'm out of here. This thread was made because "HEY GUYS! Compare these unfinished games to PS360 because I, for some reason, think they look better than EVERYTHING else out on console!"
Then this guy "It's not done yet, hurrrr."
Fucking hell.
ScepticMatt
Member
I agree with this sentiment. I think X looks like a good or even great current gen game, but on a technical level it cannot compare to current gen PC games, let alone cross generational games like Watch_Dogs or Starwars1313.
It really is always the same avatars....
It's underappreciated. People would stop comparing the game to the former generation if they truly gave attention to the scale.
XtremeXpider
Member
MisterHero
Super Member
Rockstar would be onto something if they had cowboys vs. Mothra
Seriously though, RDR is an exceptional game.Dead Rising is better
Seriously though, RDR is an exceptional game.
At least I don't post ridiculous conversations with my bro, as if they were proof of anything. Now that's lol-worthy!
phosphor112
Banned
That same sense of scale was achieved by Xenoblade. Which was technically impressive considering it was done on Gamecube +.
This on the other hand, on a game on 360(or PS3)++... it shouldn't be anything to write home about.
I showed proof of someones honest unbiased opinion. Something you clearly don't understand since your beak is so far up a certain company's rear end.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Don't leave angry phosphor.
The truth is the game isn't done, it could end up looking a lot better. Right now it doesn't look far removed. Granted we haven't seen much of it.
This "second wave" looks good, some of it damn good but none that give me that next gen "feel" like when I saw Watch Dogs or Ground Zeroes for the first time. But that might just be because other developers know how to create a cinematic trailer or scripted walkthrough that really shows off a game's visuals.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You gotta count both IQ and scale dont do one or the other. I dont think a game on 360 did this I have RDR on 360 and compare to this and that trailer RDR looking somewhat dated bro.
XtremeXpider
Member
Yes, maybe it will look better late, but current trailer looks like current gen level games.
Well you have to remember some Nintendo fans only owned a Wii so coming from that it will really impress them.I think it does look better han current ps3/360 open world games though.
Lol, what?
By the way, I find hilarious how you contradicted the shit out of yourself with that RDR video. Didn't you say that games with barren environments are not impressive?
phosphor112
Banned
It honestly probably will look amazing, but there is a fucking delusion going on in here. Some delusion that this is more impressive than anything else on the HD twins which is just absolutely stupid.
I've never said the Wii U isn't going to achieve graphics better than them, but these guys are responding like I am. Like it's a fucking crime to call out "it's barren" because it fucking is. RDR is a lot of hills but the AI walk through it, doing their mail routes and train schedules, the dust that rolls over the hills, the animals that roam the environment grazing, or killing each other, the shadow map that rolls over the hills and the way the light shines through the very impressive clouds.
X has none of that. None.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Definitely.
Maybe with some sharper texture work... but again little early to make such a conclusion.
People on all sides tend to see what they want to see. Not really worth fighting over. A technical discussion would be nice but we don't have enough high quality media of X to properly analyze. Some screenshots would have helped...
well you really don't know that. that's a pretty bold assumption. for all we know, it'll have sprawling life like cities! the best we've ever seen!! who knows.
Christberg
Member
Another thing worth pointing out in that gif is that the monster's shadow also projects accurately onto the foliage below.
X, if it is indeed open world (which I 100% expect to be the case) is a game I feel fairly comfortable saying wouldn't be possible on any current gen console without sacrifices.
Shit, it's even better looking than vanilla PC Skyrim in a lot of ways. Character models, character lighting and environmental draw distance in particular.
yea you're definitely gettin picked on here but you seem to be leading it on, lol. like on the last bit: who has a fuckin clue? just compare what we have in the video to relevant bits of comparable footage. no need to dig so deep because we have such little information.
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Exactly.
The issue is everyone is comparing the Ninendo titles to titles in completely different genres. It's like saying why doesn't RDR or GTA V look as good as UC3 or GOW 3? The latter two titles are extremely linear titles with small closed off environments, you can certainly squeeze out better visuals from them since you don't have to worry about rendering a huge world. (Xenoblade was described as being the size of Japan, nevermind X) Moreover, X is still in development, and likely early in development since Mono finished up work on Xenoblade in 2010. Someone mentioned earlier that some of GAF slammed GOW 3 for looking more like GOW 2.5, but we all know what the final product ended up like. Give it time, it may very well not meet nor exceed your expectations, but judging an unfinished game based off a (non direct feed) 1 minute trailer against finished titles like JC2 or FC3 makes no sense. If you want to compare two similar games at varying levels of completion, I'd dig up the last Versus XIII trailer; they're both open world RPGs and if you think X looks barren and unimpressive, the high budget Versus doesn't fare any better, and is arguably worse looking
I actually agree. Xenoblade was a technical wizardry, X is just "lol, let's add more effects, HD and online-multiplayer". It's very encouraging how great results can be easily achieved on Wii U. In the former gen, devs had to work with much less RAM, so this scale has been quite rare so far.
phosphor112
Banned
Just Cause 2 and RDR both feature that sort of shadow casting on foliage.
Also, most things look better than Skyrim PC. That's a terrible judge of graphical capabilities or design.
Hydrargyrus
Member
Looks pretty damn good, but it centainly looks like an current gen game. Probably a little better than the current gen, but it's what we could expect seeing the WiiU specs
Lambda Pie
Banned
IRT Ydahs:
what you call "fog" is just the game emulating light scattering, which games use to great effect. examples:
if anything, X looks worse on this area, since the human eye doesn't perceive the detail in objects at a distance the same way they do up close.
what you call "fog" is just the game emulating light scattering, which games use to great effect. examples:
if anything, X looks worse on this area, since the human eye doesn't perceive the detail in objects at a distance the same way they do up close.
You got that out of that teaser video......
You are good at this. Can you also predict the story of the game?!
The guy at the end is totally Shulk, isn't it?
What other details can you get out of the video?