First of all... Relax. Any game would suffice for an example, whichever you wish to use to illustrate your point. I personally can't recall any cases that had broad daylight scenes where a blue sky and green grass glowed anything like TWW, especially the shades they used. I'm open to see any examples you may have, however. It'd be interesting to see them side by side with the TWW screens.
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The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD Announced
- Thread starter Seda
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This thread is worse than "X" Thread right now.
All you do is complain about Zelda Wind Waker HD's color and loss of original cel shading.
Folks, don't forget that...
WW are still in development process and I do not think they are close to finish the Remastered Zelda Wind Waker.
Well this is Neogaf after all but I have not expected any "mad fans" that was excited for Zelda Wind Waker Remake that no one saw this coming.
All you do is complain about Zelda Wind Waker HD's color and loss of original cel shading.
Folks, don't forget that...
WW are still in development process and I do not think they are close to finish the Remastered Zelda Wind Waker.
Well this is Neogaf after all but I have not expected any "mad fans" that was excited for Zelda Wind Waker Remake that no one saw this coming.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I have been avoiding this thread because since day one of the Wii U announcement all I wanted was Wind Waker HD well Xenoblade HD would be better news but this is awesome too.
shameful ungrateful fans
Oh, I'm perfectly fine. Just... surprised.
Here are a couple of screens from Halo 3 (I think?) and Crysis 2.
Your reading comprehension is hilariously lacking.
Conrad Link
Member
Poor Aonuma-san, Zelda stress is sucking the colour out of his hair.
You was smart to avoid this. I would never have thought that Zelda fans would argue over those development screenshots. Wind Waker GC on Virtual Console would have satisfied all Zelda fans but... instead that Zelda Wind Waker is getting upgrade in HD and Remake. That is much much better than you ask for Wind Waker. That's how I feel that about those ungrateful fans.I have been avoiding this thread because since day one of the Wii U announcement all I wanted was Wind Waker HD well Xenoblade HD would be better news but this is awesome too.
shameful ungrateful fans
I know. I want to make this statement very true.
The shot you think might be Halo is indeed intense. But what am I look at, exactly? It appears cropped, and I don't recall seeing any media from Halo 3 that resembled this. And why aren't you sure what game it's from?Oh, I'm perfectly fine. Just... surprised.
Here are a couple of screens from Halo 3 (I think?) and Crysis 2.
That Crysis 2 shot doesn't look so bad. The foliage looks perfectly natural. I added in the TWW shot beneath it. See the stark difference? In TWW, the grass is glowing. Like radioactive waste. Can't you see how that might strike some as unpleasant? Especially after the more naturalistic colors of the original game?
You said, "I think complaints about the bloom are genuinely and childishly exaggerated." You're saying the way they're acting is childish -- but all they're doing is being honest they feel there's way too much bloom. And there is.
Paddington Bear
Member
Holy crap... This has gotten crazy. The game looks great, give it a rest
Oh god opinions on the Internet! :O
You're looking at a partial view of the sky from one of the levels from Halo 3. Of course it's difficult to tell, but that's really the point of what excessive bloom can do. I mean isn't that what we're discussing?
You specifically made a reference to Wind Waker's sky, and I gave you an explicitly worse example. There are several points in Crysis 2 where you can't even really make out anything in the sky; it's all one big bright blur.
As for the grass, the colors in Wind Waker were never "naturalistic". What you're seeing there is the exact same color of grass you saw in the original Gamecube version, only with more light reflection.
Most complaints have been about too much bloom, yes, and the reasoning behind those posts were usually exaggerated. This isn't hard to understand. And no, there isn't.
Paracelsus
Member
"Overly" realistic lighting can work in a game that aims for realism, not in a cartoonish game. This remake reminds me of when you get close to the water in 3D Dot Game Heroes, so out of place it hurts the eyes.
Or maybe uuhhh... you know... people aren't not bitching for nothing because they would like to buy the game because they like the idea of playing an HD remake director's cut of Wind Waker.
For god sake don't let Peter Garbriel ANYWHERE near the Zelda universe.
Monome is my new favourite poster. In an ironic, tongue-in-cheek, hipster-type way.
He used to be Nintendo's bitch, but he's not anymore.
They should have just flashed the Wind Waker logo on screen and then "WIND WAKER HD COMING TO WII U"
Haha, just to add to this, the grass is actually so bizarrely bright that it looks yellow to my slightly-colour blind eyes.
Yes, they could have done that instead, but Nintendo felt comfortable showing us a bit more than that. Nintendo's given us a brief taste and now we can look forward to the big reveal of this games at E3. I'm just happy they didn't give us a big look at these games because I want to be wowed in June.
I'd like to see the uncropped version of that screen. But yes, the sky (from what I can see) does look over-lit. But are you really suggesting there are enough games that do this to the degree it is normal? And if so, that this somehow makes this desirable?
And it doesn't change the fact the sky in TWW HD looks painfully bright and washed out with light. Being not completely terrible doesn't mean it's not still worse than the original. That's what makes it all so disappointing -- what they had before worked well. There was no need to mess with it.
I mentioned both, actually, but regardless, in this respect, Crysis 2 is a visual step back from Crysis 1, where the sky wasn't smoldering with sunlight. The same way TWW HD is a step back from the original, which had a balanced and cohesive look. In these TWW HD screens, the mustard-yellow grass looks like it's emanating light, as though it is its own light source, and the sky looks to be radiating light from behind every building. It just looks wrong.
The grass in the original Wind Waker was green. Not glowing mustard-yellow in the middle of the day. The fact is, whether they actually changed the color of the grass is a moot point -- in the end, the lighting still makes it look drastically different, a marked departure.
People are just calling it as they see it. Way too much bloom.
Exactly. A lot of people feel this way. I'm hopeful Nintendo will still make the necessary adjustments since these screens look like prototype tests more than anything.
So by the same token, you'd say people can't say it looks good either, right?
The bottom line is simple: The people who like it, can say so. The people who think way too much bloom is being used, can say so.
FreedomFighter
Member
I'm with you here. I'm fine with the new look. The game looks amazing either way. I suspect it'll grow on those who don't like it at first glance.
Let's see it in motion first.
plagiarize
Banned
the grass isn't 'glowing'. it's just brightly coloured, maybe overly saturated. this could be the result of some kind of pixel shading, but it isn't anything to do with the blue 'glow' you can see in the sky on the new shots. you don't have to like it, obviously, but what you are pointing out in that specific instance isn't bloom. the bloom effect is only obvious around the sky, and the objects bordering it, just as it should be. it is overt, but other games absolute go crazier with bloom than what you can see here.
On the one hand we have Carlov saying the colors weren't changed, and on the other hand we have you saying they were. I don't know who to believe, but either way, the effect is the same -- they look like they're glowing. Like they're radioactive. Like they're a mustard-yellow light that now spans the grounds of Windfall. They literally made Windfall hard to look at, hard to read.
No? You both asked me to give you some bad examples in professional games that decide to use bloom (a lot of games don't even implement it, so we're talking about something very specific), and I delivered. You're putting words in my mouth.
What? No it doesn't.
But now you're changing the subject you yourself brought up by calling it a moot point. The grass in Windfall in the year 2003 was a darker tone, but the exact same color. It never had the appearance of actual grass, and the fact that you're suggesting "mustard-yellow" as a color for the new stylistic choice for grass is just another exaggeration. You're only strengthening my point here. Just stop.
Please, I can easily say the same thing about those who like the bloom effect in this remake.
plagiarize
Banned
the colour balance is definitely different, more towards a cool blue palette. personally I like the effect. OG wind waker had a 'warmer' palette in comparison. the base textures seem unchanged. it could be purposeful colour balance changes (an effect not available to Nintendo in the Gamecube days, and something I would expect to vary a lot from environment to environment), or it could be a result of new lighting.
personally I think it suits windfall island in the day time. I'm sure you'd see less saturation at night, and warmer colour balance in Dragon's Roost, and so forth. colour balance is a tool not used in Zelda games before, we'd really need to see a lot more screens of different areas to know if Nintendo are overdoing it or not.
Well if your point was just that -some- games use it, why bother bringing it up? If anything that would just lead me to say there's a good reason many games don't blot out the sky with this much light.
Yes, it does. The grass doesn't look like grass. It looks radioactive.
Actually, you just proved mine. Whatever it is -- it looks mustard-yellow. Think of it this way: I can take a white-painted wall and shine red lights on it, and it'll look red. Of -course- it's still white, but that doesn't change the fact it will -look- red. Same here -- it could be the same color as 2003, but the new lighting makes it literally LOOK mustard-yellow, radioactive, etc.
Yes. But I wouldn't call you childish for it, or call for you to stop sharing your love of it. Because we're on the Internet sharing opinions, and opinions are harmless.
We're not here to circle-jerk. We're here to say what we think, even if it's different.
nintendoman58
Member
I don't care what they do with this re-release/remake, but if they plan on "tuning up the overall gaming experience", they better remove that fetch quest near the end, or at least tone it down or something.
The new lighting will look fantastic in motion so I think more people will be satisfied when footage comes up.
Also, their use of a different Link model and putting Tetra's model on Windfall affirms the fact, at least to me, that these images are just them playing around with the graphics and everything will look more polished (which is what people should already assume...)
Also, their use of a different Link model and putting Tetra's model on Windfall affirms the fact, at least to me, that these images are just them playing around with the graphics and everything will look more polished (which is what people should already assume...)
Anticitizen One
Banned
pffftt you call this Zelda? more like CELDA
plagiarize
Banned
Its same lighting as in nintendo land. if you want to see how it looks in action just play battle quest.
just like this screen shot below these screen seem to be a bit over saturated than what the actual game could be.
I would bet money that what we were shown was literally just the wind waker environment and some models plugged into the Nintendo Land engine, maybe borrowing a skybox from
Nintendo Land.
and anyone who hasn't seen how good the lighting looks in motion in NintendoLand should do themselves a favor and find out.
The game world isn't saturated with the light here, though. In that level of Nintendo Land, the grounds, the trees, the world, is still crisp, clear, tangible -- it's not haloing with light and such.Its same lighting as in nintendo land. if you want to see how it looks in action just play battle quest.
just like this screen shot below these screen seem to be a bit over saturated than what the actual game could be.
I agree Nintendo Land is gorgeous, though.
Im_So_Pringles
Member
Bring down the contrast in the shadows and make the bloom not as intrusive and I love the change. It's nice that it looks different from the GameCube version stylistically IMO, and that it isn't just an up-res. because I can get that at any time with dolphin! definitely getting a Wiiu for this!
Jesus Christ. What part of "I DIDN'T BRING IT UP" do you not understand?
I'm not even going to waste my time with this argument any more. You don't seem to know what mustard yellow actually looks like, and you can't seem to comprehend the difference between an object emanating reflected light and an actual light source.
Then what do you call this:
You brought it up.Carlov said:
You don't seem to comprehend that whatever technology is going on is a moot point, because we're talking about how it looks in the end. So no matter what route you take getting there, the destination is this: It looks mustard-yellow. The grass looks radioactive.
Look at the color of the grass in the original game. Look at the color of the average lawn. Now look at the HD game. The grass now looks like it's yellow and dead and somehow aglow in the middle of the day. That grass does NOT look healthy, lol.
plagiarize
Banned
I don't see anything below the horizon, or in the shots without the sky doing what you describe. I see crisp clear tangible edges and textures and what have you. I see clear blooming on the edges that border the sky. In the shot you posted, compare the edge of the grass with the sea, and where the grass meets the sky.
In that case, you're just saying the reason Windfall now looks like the ground is made out of gold metal is because the color on the ground was changed, rather than the lighting playing a role? Again, just speaking to how it actually looks -- you and Carlov may disagree what changed the look, but whatever caused it, it looks the way I described. Radioactive. Yellowed. Very, very, very yellowed.
Treefingers
Member
I dunno what your monitor calibration setup is but to me that looks like bright green sunny day cartoony grass, not yellow and dead.
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