Can Crusher
Banned
No I don't. And no, they weren't.
It's a silly discussion, just go read about the big differences. Plenty of info out there and games to show off the differences.
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VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
No I don't. And no, they weren't.
It's a silly discussion, just go read about the big differences. Plenty of info out there and games to show off the differences.
Psychotext
Member
Go back and read what I posted. Also, if this updated spec sheet is right then neither has BDXL.
Yup. Is ridiculous.
Going to be a horror show. If they have to have installs I would rather they had 10x available, even if it's temporarily loud.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
what's the problem of using relatively similar commodity hardware?
Can Crusher
Banned
Is there a reason why Orbis will have a faster drive than Durango? Seems like such an off the shelve part.
You don't have to worry about that.
GG is working on a next generation game. So, is Ready At Dawn, SSM, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog, MM and several other studios. Most of their development shifted to next generation a long time ago. Even the two studios launching PS3 games this year, Santa Monica (SSM) and Naughty Dog, have more than one team and are already prepping their next games.
Sony will have quite the steady stream of games next generation. I imagine GG is going first this time. Expect to see 3-4 at least within the first year.
Death Dealer
Member
I wouldn't expect them to sell extra controllers near cost.
Nintendo could be charging a 100% markup on them for all we know.
If Sony can sell a Vita for $250, I doubt a Wii-U controller even costs $125 to manufacture.
Bingo
Whatever you're smoking, you should pass on it...
Manmademan
Member
Eh, the GC was limited to 480p- and even then only with component cables they quickly phased out.
The Xbox output more than a few games in 1080i. It was a more capable machine.
oversitting
Banned
Most games physx has been pointless or unplayable. Very few games actually need the gpu to do physx. The API is dead and is all nvidia marketing. DirectCompute in DX11 will replace all the features in physx since it will run on all the next xbox and also all PC dx11 cards.
Physx doesn't run on the whole card. It can't effectively use the processing power. Realistically 400GFLOP doing pure physics calculations will be much more powerful than the 650. The 650 is 800GFLOP but its unlikely physx would be running on anywhere near that since an i7 with about 100GFLOP has no problem running it.
R10Neymarfan
Member
I expect Microsoft to be cheap and just go with the lowest currently available (4x). BDXL drives go up to 6x-8x on regular BD and 4x-6x on BDXL. At least the slot loading drives do. I don't think either company will put a SATA in their consoles.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
Man, if Killzone 4 is a launch game Ill buy the console Day 1. Oh gawd
Can Crusher
Banned
Sure sure.
he is saying than 3x better is bad.. he thinks that they fill 3.5 GB of RAM by reading 1:1 from BD drive.
MikeE21286
Member
All I was doing was intending to do was list the consoles to have the most unit sales during their respective generation and the price they launched at. Margin has nothing to do with my post, as the crux of my argument was meant to come from a conusemr perspective of what they were willing to spend
The external forces I'm speaking of are specifically smartphones and tablets mainly (as well as depressed economic conditions, but only to a slightly that point). These new all in one devices that did not exist at the time of previous conosle generations and now eat away at the console makers total market share.
Insane Metal
Member
Actually he said that Durango would be more efficient than Orbis. Hence the "different flops". That's why even though Orbis might have higher specs, Durango could be pretty much at the same league.
Psychotext
Member
Latest rumour has them both using exactly the same drives. Though they didn't actually specify that the Durango drive is PCAV.
I'd love to see where I said that. I do believe that with only a 1.5x to 3x speed increase (and the massive increases in memory bandwidth) that installs will be more important (and prevalent) than ever though.
As someone mentioned you can't really compare PC design to Console design same with Flops number. Lower spec console should be vastly faster than similar PC. It was always the case and this won't change now or in future.
The GC compensated by a much, much better architecture, and the best looking games on it matched whatever the Xbox came up with.
That confrontation was the best illustration of the uncertain outcome of opposing brute force to smart design.
This is bullshit by the VGleaks staff. Blurays have linear read speed [firmware controls the speed of the reading automatically and keeps it level]. PS3 reads bluray discs with 9 MB/s no matter where laser is, and same will happen with PS4/Durango... only with x3 the speed [27MB/s].
Clay Davis
Member
MS will have the gimped version, no HDD that doesn't play all the games at $399 just so they can have the talking point on price and sell a $120 proprietary HDD.
That's mostly true but next-gen games dont HAVE to use PhysX. They probably could use Bullet.
Again, you are base jumping on semantics. A 650 is not an equivalent of a 4 CU unit based on AMD's GCN arch.
based on what? with what we know now, it is impossible for it to be more efficient.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I forgot about this.
That is quite a positive note to the whole dedicated CU's for GPGPU thing, finall physx can roll over and die , this physics stuff won't be nvidia exclusive anymore and properly supported on AMD and it will actually make sense for devs to implement it into gameplay rather than 'look at these wavey flags nobody gives a fuck about and look at how many rocks appear from shooting the ground. (you can't implement it into gameplay now because half your users wouldn't be able to play the game atm)
Yes you can.
You can't compare nvidia flops to amd ones, or GCN flops to Barts flops.
But since both consoles or at least orbis (if the rumors are correct) are using the same architecture that is used in pitcairn (7850) on PC you can compare them....
The gpgpu bit might change things for orbis for physics/ai side but the rendering parts like pixel pushing should be the same.
You can also still look at die sizes of the pc equivalent cpus and gpus and their power consumption and draw your conclusions based on how ambitious they were (or the lack of ambition in this case).
Again, underclocking and cutting a 65W part with a small die to put in a future console is really... ugh.
All I can think is 'really?' this is all they went for?
Looking at this from a gamer perspective and someone who enjoys technology advancements, not from a shareholder perspective, from their perspective anything can be justified and I know how big of a marketing/business boner gaf has. Everyone cheers on epic for convincing MS to pay that 'billion dollars' to double the xbox 360 ram, but those same people will also defend any compromise.
Maybe they'd like cotton seat covers in the next AUDI saloon car and plastics all over the dashboard, surely it would be better for audi stockholders as long as people are willing to put up with it.
I'm going to leave it at that, I hope I've articulated my point properly, make of it what you will.
R10Neymarfan
Member
I am hoping that it's just for the dev kits. Sony will want 4k movie playback and the Orbis will be their main player to advertise that. You can only put 4k movies on BDXL
but we heard rumors that the GPU was as powerful/fast as the GTX 680 and this GPU isn't nearly as fast or powerful as a GTX 580 that came out 2 years ago
There was discussion of data mover engines, but doesn't GCN have DMA engines built in anyway? So orbis might have access to those too
I could find out, but I think they'll be unveiling a new IP this year. I don't think Killzone 4 will be there first. As far as I'm aware anyway.
iamshadowlark
Banned
You should play the Arkam game with Physx, when done right it adds a pretty good layer of realness.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
There are no CAV Blu-ray drives, the Blu-ray specification doesn't allow for CAV, CLV only. At 8x Blu-ray reads at 32MB/s, but finding an acoustically silent 8x drive might be tough. I think 6x will be more likely which is 24MB/s. The compressed data will stream from the disc and be dynamically uncompressed and put into the memory, the reason Sony might go for a faster drive is because they have higher speed RAM.
Manmademan
Member
yeah, you're confused. I'd stop now.
You can't directly compare "the price they launched at" with current consoles, because inflation means their dollars were worth more. People earned less per hour, and other goods were cheaper. For reference, Gasoline was $1.00 per gallon when I was in high school. occasionally less. It's almost 4 times that now. The same goes for food and clothing. $199 looks attractive to you because you don't realize your dollars are only worth a fraction of what THEIR dollars were.
"Margin" is most certainly relevant when you're saying "well look at the wii!" The Wii was more expensive than it should have been given the specs, because of nintendo's inflated profit margins. It's like trying to determine how much nokia or samsung should price their smartphones at based on what apple is charging. It doesn't work that way. the business models are different and not all companies can get away with pricing huge margins into their hardware.
And as for smartphones and tablets- you think consumer electronics competing for sales dollars is a new thing? Previous consoles had to compete with PCs during the height of their popularity- at $1000 a pop for a desktop, easily- and they got replaced a hell of a lot more frequently than they do now. Plain old DVD players were $300 or more when the PS1 was in it's prime. Things like walkmen and portable CD players were still very popular, and very expensive- easily a couple hundred for good ones.
you're clueless. give it up.
SonicColours
Banned
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
oh wow. i never realized how expensive old consoles were.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I see. That doesn't sound implausible, although it seems unlikely given the slower ram setup. I could see there being a negligible difference with games that completely ignore those 4 extra CUs though.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
what do you know??
it cant be more efficient than putting faster RAM
. There is no magic, it is technology.There isn't a 4k physical media standard as of yet... They could always add it to the PS4Slim in three years... BDXL drives will be cheaper and 4k screens will also be a hell of a lot cheaper...
Xenon
Member
Nothing, except going against how competing consoles have been made up until this point. I didn't say bad, just weird. I am sure MS and Sony are thrilled to cut their R&D budget this time around.
Psychotext
Member
Seems like a bit of a stupid mistake for the leak site to make. Cheers for the explanation though.
MakeMeFeelAlive
Member
Sony always brings out new franchises. But it would be insane for anyone to think they wouldnt have Unchsrted 4. I can see them ending e3 with a teaser trailer and everyone going nuts. Im very curious at what GG is doing. I personally think they can move more units if they debut a game at launch. There wont be that much competition, and they can attract a lot buyers with their visuals. It would give them s leg up
Nvidia can die in hell for buying Ageia and not delivering what ageia did years ago. When i see stuff like in mafia or mirrors edge i just roll my eyes since Ageia with their hardware cards did that few years ago without any problems or without any FPS drop. Switching Psyhx in Borderland will make your card bleed tears for pretty much nonsignificant things in therm of scale and quality.
I am so much butthurt over Ageia downfall still....
phosphor112
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I hope it wasn't a deliberate error put in the docs so Sony ninjas know who leaked it.
MikeE21286
Member
We're obviously on different wavelengths with what were talking about here.
And I'm on my iPad. So long posts are pretty laborious.
We'll agree to disagree on this.
But wow, you got kinda heated about it all for no reason. "Clueless" and "confused"
Console launches bring out the best in everyone...
(Proelite
Member
(11-03-2012, 06:35 PM)
that was 2 months ago how did you get nearly a year out of that?