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Media Create Sales: Week 4, 2013 (Jan 21 - Jan 27)

I never disagreed it wasn't a system seller, but NSMB2 hasn't passed FF13 with a 10 million userbase and it is a much more healthy platform than Wii U will ever be.

NSMB2 will surpass FFXIII pretty easily though and NSMBU at least has a shot if it can maintain some legs (depends on the health of WiiU going forward).
 

Sandfox

Member
I never disagreed it wasn't a system seller, but NSMB2 hasn't passed FF13 with a 10 million userbase and it is a much more healthy platform than Wii U will ever be.

FF13 and FF13-2 have only sold 9.6 million combined worldwide as of July 2012 so it should be passed eventually.
 

Laguna

Banned
I never disagreed it wasn't a system seller, but NSMB2 hasn't passed FF13 with a 10 million userbase and it is a much more healthy platform than Wii U will ever be.

NSMB2 already is at 1.922.467 according to Famitsu and at 1.886.476 according to Media Create. Which means if it didn´t already surpass FF13 it will in a matter of a few weeks and it will easily dwarf FF13 sales in comparison when all is said and done. I´m talking about at least 2 times more sales in comparison.

Also I want to remind you that NSMB2 released in 3DSs second year after 3dland and Mario Kart already established a fanbase. Games like "Mario Universe" and Mario Kart for WiiU will indirectely help NSMBUs sales as well.
 
It's a new console. People will buy it initially. And along with that purchase they'll get a go-to game or two.

Wii Sports was a system seller. People bought Wii's in droves because of Wii Sports in and of itself.

I don't think the PS3 had any system sellers, the only singular game that could potentially be seen as having driven a lot of system sales was FFXIII. The PSV certainly has no system sellers.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Sometimes I just think you want to find positive things about VITA out of nothing. Basically you are insisting there is a market for VITA, no matter how small it is, since there are still people buying it. (And the original arguement was tat having two games selling 25K this week means there is a market for VITA) It's the same kind of point you insisted last year when talking about VITA to have any kind of turn around. You insisted there is always a chance for it to happen no matter how small that chance is because "anything can happen".
How do you mean with "out of nothing"? I feel that i gave pretty straight forward reasons for my arguement, i'm not basing it on nothing. Demon Gaze and Monpiece both sold out their first shipment in the first week, so it seems that they sold over expectations. If other publishers sees that games like this can sell good on Vita, i dont think it is that far fetched to think maybe there will be more support for the Vita of these type of games. Its no guarantee, but i dont think it is impossible. There is of course also the question if this will be enough for Sony to continue to produce Vita hardware. I dont know if Sony needs to increase the Vita hardware production a lot to keep making it, or if they can keep making it in smaller numbers and still make money on it.

Yeah, if the Vita is being sold for the upcoming years and get niche game support, then there is a market for it, even if it is small. Do you disagree with this definition? There have been discussions here about discontinue the Vita completely in the near future. My recent arguement has been more towards that, that i think the Vita could stay on the market if it keeps getting those smaller games.

If i sit here in my appartment and have a negative or positive outlook on some sales numbers, the outcome will be the same regardless. So i might just as well have a positive outlook on it :) I'm just giving my views/thoughts on how i think things might happen. I have never ruled out the possibility that the opposite also might happen, because as you quoted me on, "anything can happen" means that things can go both ways. And me saying "anything can happen" doesnt necessarily means that i have a very strong believe to one side. I just mentioned it to show that i wouldnt rule anything out at that point (i think it was 7-8 months since i've said it, quite early into the Vita lifecycle).
 

Laguna

Banned
It's a new console. People will buy it initially. And along with that purchase they'll get a go-to game or two.

Wii Sports was a system seller. People bought Wii's in droves because of Wii Sports in and of itself.

I don't think the PS3 had any system sellers, the only singular game that could potentially be seen as having driven a lot of system sales was FFXIII. The PSV certainly has no system sellers.


So only multi-million selling games can be consideres system-sellers in Japan. Give me a break.

Also some context to your baseless assumptions:

Playstation 3: 11. November 2006
Final Fanzasy 13: 17. Dezember 2009
 
So only multi-million selling games can be consideres system-sellers in Japan. Give me a break.

Also some context to your baseless assumptions:

Playstation 3: 11. November 2006
Final Fanzasy 13: 17. Dezember 2009
I really have no idea how you read that from what I wrote. I'm not sure how it wasn't clear - pietoriam seemed to understand the meaning. Nor do I see why it should matter when FFXIII released.

It's release drove a substantial increase in system sales. It sold systems. Even then I don't think the effect would be considered big enough to be a "system seller." It certainly wasn't a sustained effect.

There's really no indication NSMBU is acting as a major system seller, its sales are essentially following the decline of the system so far as I can tell. For the plurality or majority of people buying a Wii U it's the go-to software purchase to go with it. It's not a reason enough in itself to get one. If it was both the title's sales and then correspondingly the system's sales would be higher.

Unless one is liberal with the term system seller and simply applies it to any software with a high attach rate, regardless of the magnitude of actual effect on system sales.
 

Kenka

Member
I never disagreed it wasn't a system seller, but NSMB2 hasn't passed FF13 with a 10 million userbase and it is a much more healthy platform than Wii U will ever be.
I think it has, or they must be tied at this point, right ?
Anyway, NSMB will pass the 2M bar next quarter and the topic will soon be history.
 

hongcha

Member
Yeah, if the Vita is being sold for the upcoming years and get niche game support, then there is a market for it, even if it is small. Do you disagree with this definition? There have been discussions here about discontinue the Vita completely in the near future. My recent arguement has been more towards that, that i think the Vita could stay on the market if it keeps getting those smaller games.

As a comparison, it's helpful to note that there is still a market for niche X360 games in Japan - even this year exclusives are still getting released. It's been like this for 7 years. I've been saying for awhile that the vita will probably end up as a portable x360 in japan: similar games, similar companies making the games, similar sales figures. As a gamer I don't consider that to be a bad thing, as a lot of really great x360 games came out in japan that weren't released on other consoles, and we're seeing the same thing with the vita.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
As a comparison, it's helpful to note that there is still a market for niche X360 games in Japan - even this year exclusives are still getting released. It's been like this for 7 years. I've been saying for awhile that the vita will probably end up as a portable x360 in japan: similar games, similar companies making the games, similar sales figures. As a gamer I don't consider that to be a bad thing, as a lot of really great x360 games came out in japan that weren't released on other consoles, and we're seeing the same thing with the vita.
I agree :)

I wonder if my statement saying "there could be a market for the Vita" came off as me saying that the Vita sales would be sky high. I didnt say that, and i didnt try to imply it either. I only ment it more towards the earlier discussions that the Vita would be pulled from the market in the near future.

I do think it is a very legitimate question if such support is enough for Sony to keep the Vita hardware in production. But i'm wondering if the seemingly sales success of Demon Gaze and Monpiece could make it easier for publishers to put these more niche games on the Vita. I see that as something positive towards the Vita not being pulled from the market. Granted, Demon Gaze and Monpiece are only two game, so it is too early to say how thing will be with other games in the long run.
 

Laguna

Banned
I really have no idea how you read that from what I wrote. I'm not sure how it wasn't clear - pietoriam seemed to understand the meaning. Nor do I see why it should matter when FFXIII released.

It's release drove a substantial increase in system sales. It sold systems. Even then I don't think the effect would be considered big enough to be a "system seller." It certainly wasn't a sustained effect.

There's really no indication NSMBU is acting as a major system seller, its sales are essentially following the decline of the system so far as I can tell. For the plurality or majority of people buying a Wii U it's the go-to software purchase to go with it. It's not a reason enough in itself to get one.

Unless one is liberal with the term system seller and simply applies it to any software with a high attach rate, regardless of the magnitude of actual effect on system sales.

I knew that you wouldn´t grasp the difference. FF13 pushed a system that already had a library and userbase worth of more than 3 years and in fact multiple times more software was sold that week than PS3s were pushed, this must give you an idea what we are talking about. While NSMBU is the main reason that 750k units were sold so far and still the biggest reason people are buying the console, evidenced by a 50% attach rate last week. Again it´s quite easier to ignite hardware sales with a 3 year library as "backup" than basically beeing one of two wanted games of a new console. And no, no one buys a system just because, without appealing software no buy especially for a system that only can be used to play games on, unlike DVD und BluRay movie players. Also people saying that a potential million-seller like NSMBU can´t be considered as system-seller are in denial, that´s just wishful-thinking from the usual suspects in my opinion.
 
NSMBU isn't the main reason 750K people have bought the Wii U, considering only 450K of those people have actually bought NSMBU.

If you really see no distinction between:
i) people actively going out to buy a console specifically for a game
ii) people buying a console, and as at any other launch buying a title for it, consolidating around certain titles

Again if you want to simply label it as a "system seller" because it has a high attach rate, more power to you. It doesn't change the ultimate reality that it's not sufficient to actually drive the system's sales in substantial numbers.
 

Laguna

Banned
NSMBU isn't the main reason 750K people have bought the Wii U, considering only 450K of those people have actually bought NSMBU.

If you really see no distinction between:
i) people actively going out to buy a console specifically for a game
ii) people buying a console, and as at any other launch buying a title for it, consolidating around certain titles

Again if you want to simply label it as a "system seller" because it has a high attach rate, more power to you. It doesn't change the ultimate reality that it's not sufficient to actually drive the system's sales in substantial numbers.

Your assumption is that people buy a system "just because", that´s just silly and based on nothing but a baseless speculation. Fact is 750k WiiU systems were sold and 450k units of NSMBU.
 
Er...isn't a system seller exactly what the name implies? A game people go out and buy a system for. If NSMBU isn't a system seller than it implies Wii U hardware sales would be the same if it didn't release which I find very hard to believe. The word you are looking for is killer app ala Wii Sports/Brain Age.
 
Er...isn't a system seller exactly what the name implies? A game people go out and buy a system for. If NSMBU isn't a system seller than it implies Wii U hardware sales would be the same if it didn't release which I find very hard to believe. The word you are looking for is killer app ala Wii Sports/Brain Age.
That seems far too broad a definition of a system seller in my mind - in that scenario tons of software could be considered system sellers. I thought killer app and system seller were taken as essentially synonymous.
 
That seems far too broad a definition of a system seller in my mind - in that scenario tons of software could be considered system sellers. I thought killer app and system seller were taken as essentially synonymous.

I don't know maybe I've taken too literal of a definition, but then I wondered why even have two separate terms. I mean I believe Soul Sacrifice is going to sell Vitas making it a system seller, but the effect will last very shortly. I think we can see what games are not particularly great system selllers by seeing that hardware essentially remains unchanged when it releases.
 

Laguna

Banned
Er...isn't a system seller exactly what the name implies? A game people go out and buy a system for. If NSMBU isn't a system seller than it implies Wii U hardware sales would be the same if it didn't release which I find very hard to believe. The word you are looking for is killer app ala Wii Sports/Brain Age.

A system-seller doesn´t need to sell the same as the hardware. Because while there are games like NSMB and Mario Kart that are big enough to sell a lot of systems and to be considered system-sellers, this doesn´t exclude other system-selling factors like BluRay and DVD movie playback for example and the most important one beeing software library.

You should know that NSMBU wasn´t the only released WiiU game. Looking at the data it´s quite obvious that Nintendoland was a system-seller as well so far. In fact when you combine Nintendoland and NSMBUs sales (ca. 730k) you get very close to WiiUs current install base. Also to a lesser extent MHTri that sold ca. 190k so far. Excluding NSMBU because there are other system selling software available would be like excluding last years 3DLand, MHTriG and Mario Kart.
 
No, it doesn´t need to sell the same as the hardware. Because while there are games like NSMB and Mario Kart that are big enough to sell a lot of systems and to be considered system-sellers, this doesn´t exclude other system-selling factors like BluRay and DVD movie playback for example and the most important one beeing software library.

You should know that NSMBU wasn´t the only released WiiU game. Looking at the data it´s quite obvious that Nintendoland was a system-seller as well so far. In fact when you combine Nintendoland and NSMBUs sales (ca. 730k) you get very close to WiiUs current install base. Also to a lesser extent MHTri that sold ca. 190k so far. Excluding NSMBU because there are other system selling software available would be like excluding last years 3DLand, MHTriG and Mario Kart.

If we use your defintion of system seller you´ll have a hard time finding any system-sellers at all and even FF13 can´t be considered to be one, that´s how out of touch with reality this defintion actually is.

Wait what? I was agreeing with you. Under my definition a ton of games could be considered a system sellers. My point was that if you remove one of those system sellers the console wouldn't sell as much as it had which I don't think is an unreasonable thing to say that the wii u wouldn't have sold what it did without NSMBU
 

Laguna

Banned
Wait what? I was agreeing with you. Under my definition a ton of games could be considered a system sellers. My point was that if you remove one of those system sellers the console wouldn't sell as much as it had which I don't think is an unreasonable thing to say that the wii u wouldn't have sold what it did without NSMBU

My bad. I edited my post.
 

Tenki

Member
I never disagreed it wasn't a system seller, but NSMB2 hasn't passed FF13 with a 10 million userbase and it is a much more healthy platform than Wii U will ever be.

In fact, it has.

Final Fantasy XIII (Famitsu): 1,904,313
NSMB2 (Famitsu): 1,922,467
 

Nekki

Member
I never disagreed it wasn't a system seller, but NSMB2 hasn't passed FF13 with a 10 million userbase and it is a much more healthy platform than Wii U will ever be.

NSMB2 WILL pass FFXIII. NSMBU probably will as well. People saying it's not a system seller are crazy. Are Mario Kart Wii and NSMBWii considered system sellers??

Because looking from their perspective, those games stand at 34 million and 27 million worldwide currently, on a userbase of 99 million Wii's. That's a (very liberal) average of about 25% attach rate for the system. So really, what is the definition of system seller??

Some people are sounding like NSMBU should sell the same numbers as Wii U hardware to be considered one. It's stupid.
 
I agree :)

I wonder if my statement saying "there could be a market for the Vita" came off as me saying that the Vita sales would be sky high. I didnt say that, and i didnt try to imply it either. I only ment it more towards the earlier discussions that the Vita would be pulled from the market in the near future.

I do think it is a very legitimate question if such support is enough for Sony to keep the Vita hardware in production. But i'm wondering if the seemingly sales success of Demon Gaze and Monpiece could make it easier for publishers to put these more niche games on the Vita. I see that as something positive towards the Vita not being pulled from the market. Granted, Demon Gaze and Monpiece are only two game, so it is too early to say how thing will be with other games in the long run.

The market must be enough to be profitable for the comany to keep the platform alive. There's no way Vita will be kept in the market with only those games. GC failed having Nintendo IPs; DC failed having SEGa and a good third party efforts.

As a comparison, it's helpful to note that there is still a market for niche X360 games in Japan - even this year exclusives are still getting released. It's been like this for 7 years. I've been saying for awhile that the vita will probably end up as a portable x360 in japan: similar games, similar companies making the games, similar sales figures. As a gamer I don't consider that to be a bad thing, as a lot of really great x360 games came out in japan that weren't released on other consoles, and we're seeing the same thing with the vita.

The difference is that 360 was selling good in the West; 360 also received basically 90% of multiplatforms from Japanese third parties. That helped a lot, and help in building a fanbase, though small because overtaken by PS3. Vita does not exist in the West. The problem is that it is also not relevant in Japan.

Also: the comparison fails when it's not really true that similar companies are making similar games; 360 received a quite good effort from SE in the first years, and from Namco as well. A lot of exclusives. The biggest Vita exclusive from third parties is... Ragnarok Odyssey?
 
I really have no idea how you read that from what I wrote. I'm not sure how it wasn't clear - pietoriam seemed to understand the meaning. Nor do I see why it should matter when FFXIII released.

It's release drove a substantial increase in system sales. It sold systems. Even then I don't think the effect would be considered big enough to be a "system seller." It certainly wasn't a sustained effect.

There's really no indication NSMBU is acting as a major system seller, its sales are essentially following the decline of the system so far as I can tell. For the plurality or majority of people buying a Wii U it's the go-to software purchase to go with it. It's not a reason enough in itself to get one. If it was both the title's sales and then correspondingly the system's sales would be higher.

Unless one is liberal with the term system seller and simply applies it to any software with a high attach rate, regardless of the magnitude of actual effect on system sales.
Look at the sales of NSMBWii, look at the ratio of NSMBU sales to Wii U sales and you can see how its a system seller. ANY game that sells over 60% at launch is a system seller. This isn't rocket science. Sure its not selling as many Wii U consoles as Nintendo would like, but there's many reasons why besides the actual game itself.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
The market must be enough to be profitable for the comany to keep the platform alive. There's no way Vita will be kept in the market with only those games. GC failed having Nintendo IPs; DC failed having SEGa and a good third party efforts.
That is the big question indeed. Can Sony keep the Vita in production even if it is being produced in lower amounts, or is it too costly for them to do this.
 

AniHawk

Member
i'm actually surprised there are wii u games in the top 20. it's going to be a long way until game & wario. how low do people think it'll get? under 7k?
 
i'm actually surprised there are wii u games in the top 20.
This is the major difference from Vita and why I think some can point to the "trinity" (NSMBU, NLand, MH3U) as system sellers. People are seeming to consistently buy a Wii U for these games specifically given their relatively high and lengthy tracking for launch fare. Nothing on Vita or 3DS really "lasted" like these have.
 

Kenka

Member
i'm actually surprised there are wii u games in the top 20. it's going to be a long way until game & wario. how low do people think it'll get? under 7k?
Dragon Quest X HD demo to be available in DL form on Feb, 1st surprise announcement!
 

Hero

Member
NSMB U will definitely surpass FFXIII's LTD sales in Japan, it's a matter of when.

I don't necessarily think NSMB U is a true system seller in the fact that it's going to make people go out and buy expensive new hardware to play it but it will definitely be a piece of software that most people will take into consideration when other software gets released and purchase as an additional game.
 

extralite

Member
The market must be enough to be profitable for the comany to keep the platform alive. There's no way Vita will be kept in the market with only those games. GC failed having Nintendo IPs; DC failed having SEGa and a good third party efforts.

Though Wii came early and GC had a short lifespan, it was supported until its successor hit. I don't think it can be compared to DC which was a huge money sink from the beginning and marked Sega's end as a hardware maker. DC also ceased production quite early.

Losing money on hardware (or at least not profitting on the hardware itself) was part of the winning strategy in the past but it only really pays off if you can become the market leader and get lots of 3rd party support. For that reason the Wii was never sold at a loss which was a pretty new strategy also for Nintendo but after GC they couldn't take the risk anymore.

The Wii was likely meant to turn a profit even if only sold as well as the GC. That it vastly outperformed it made it the huge success that it was but the conservative approach was based on GC performance. Cut the losses, maximize the profit that was to be expected.

PS3 is a similar case as GC in that the money lost on hardware didn't help Sony even make the Top 2. So Vita follows the Wii strategy of not selling at a loss/zero profit. It's a new approach and now we're seeing what will happen when a platform like that isn't doing great like the Wii. Can and will they keep supporting it even if it has a much smaller pay off? On the other hand, could it not be considered to be doing better than the PS3 which saw years of losses?

With its weak performance it is diluting the brand, or in other words failing to keep the brand in people's lives. But discontinuing it, not trying to make the best of the Vita would be even worse than the weak showing. It would mean to go from little to nothing.

This week's Vita releases both had at least 16% of their sales in DD. So shift towards DD should make the Vita more profitable over time also. And it's getting many Jump games and the cross platform stuff as well provides chances of expanding towards a more mainstream audience, especially when it gets a price cut.

FFXHD and One Piece Musou 2 won't do much because they're also on PS3? Considering how low the Vita is now it will still be enough to grow the market. The buy a PS3 game and get the Vita version for free strategy should sell some Vitas to PS3 owners, if enough and the right games make use of this. It's all very modest, but there is room for growth. And we know of other niche consoles that survived a whole generation.

Reduced expectations but making more money with digital content that has higher margins. Even Iwata acknowledges this as the key for future growth. Hopefully they can actually make it work, and make it work big, as opposed to Vita's sluggish sales.

So far it looks like the PS audience is more accepting of the DD approach but Nintendo has games to actually get its platform into households. The common strategy is relying on DD for growth.
 

Road

Member
Congratulations to Rarity for winning both by units and percentage!

Code:
BY UNITS                             BY PERCENTAGE

  1   227,576  Rarity                   1  182.3%  Rarity
  2   248,924  deathcobra               2  192.1%  Nekki
  3   255,150  Nekki                    3  236.3%  Mpl90
  4   333,316  Yeshua                   4  252.2%  deathcobra
  5   338,282  Mpl90                    5  261.5%  lunchwithyuzo
  6   349,924  Bruno MB                 6  272.0%  Yeshua
  7   358,924  donny2112                7  283.9%  electroplankton
  8   361,890  DrWong                   8  291.4%  MasterSheen
  9   366,178  XDDX                     9  292.1%  DrWong
 10   375,316  hiska-kun               10  294.0%  Smiles and Cries
 11   390,282  Smiles and Cries        11  296.0%  The_lascar
 12   406,312  lunchwithyuzo           12  317.3%  donny2112
 13   409,144  Green Slime             13  319.8%  Orgen
 14   443,184  Gianni Merryman         14  322.2%  hiska-kun
 15   486,890  The_lascar              15  327.2%  Road
 16   496,837  Road                    16  330.2%  Gianni Merryman
 17   503,316  MasterSheen             17  336.4%  Bruno MB
 18   528,316  electroplankton         18  365.0%  XDDX
 19   540,924  Orgen                   19  369.3%  Green Slime
 20   628,316  KuwabaraTheMan          20  393.3%  KuwabaraTheMan

                                        Famitsu   electropla Yeshua   Orgen    lunchwit Nekki    Gianni M donny211 Bruno MB Green Sl Road     XDDX     deathcob The_lasc DrWong   MasterSh Mpl90    Smiles a Rarity   Kuwabara hiska-kun
[PSP] Digimon Adventures                    58983      75000    60000    68000    56789    50000    80000    80000    77000    55000    44444    80000    70000    40000    55000    70000    55000    38000    64000    75000    59000
[PS3+360] DmC: Devil May Cry               149696     145000   100000   234000   167890   160000   186000   185000   152000    65000   111111   110000   150000   150000   165000   120000    90000   120000    86000    90000   128000
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf            403931     650000   500000   572000   567890   450000   540000   500000   462000   380000   444444   385000   450000   580000   520000   650000   510000   556000   470000   510000   500000
[3DS] Fantasy Life                          66630      85000   100000    71000    87654    60000    30000   125000   140000   145000   111111   150000   140000    80000   100000    90000    82000    96000    49000   150000   146000
[WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U               75715     240000   150000   229000   187654   200000   190000   125000   165000   165000   222222   160000   125000   185000   150000   200000   180000   165000   129000   210000   150000
[WIU] Hardware                             121121     200000   200000   243000   210123   180000   220000   220000   230000   250000   333333   240000   190000   290000   240000   190000   170000   190000   143000   350000   225000

UNIT DIFF                                       0     528316   333316   540924   406312   255150   443184   358924   349924   409144   496837   366178   248924   486890   361890   503316   338282   390282   227576   628316   375316

STATISTICS
                                         Famitsu GAF AVERAGE   MIN      MAX     OVER     UNDER   CLOSEST BY
[PSP] Digimon Adventures                   58,983     62,612   38,000   80,000      60%      40%   59,000 hiska-kun
[PS3+360] DmC: Devil May Cry              149,696    135,750   65,000  234,000      45%      55%  150,000 deathcobra
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf           403,931    509,867  380,000  650,000      90%      10%  385,000 XDDX
[3DS] Fantasy Life                         66,630    101,888   30,000  150,000      85%      15%   71,000 Orgen
[WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U              75,715    176,394  125,000  240,000     100%       0%  125,000 donny2112
[WIU] Hardware                            121,121    225,723  143,000  350,000     100%       0%  143,000 Rarity

iXB3nFk62bKba.png
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So the PlayStation 4 is going to be unveiled on February 20th.

On the one hand, this should give us our first look at third party support for the system.

On the other hand, it is taking place in New York City, meaning that the most likely Japanese games to be shown are pretty much just the huge, global megahit franchises and maybe some launch titles as opposed to a wide base of titles that appeal to various Japanese niches.

On the plus side, it should still make the beginning of when we can start comparing the line-ups of the Wii U and PS4.
 

L Thammy

Member
The problem with arguing NSMBU as a system seller or not is that there's no way to tell. We didn't see what the Wii U looked like without it so we didn't see the effect when it landed. Whether you think one way or the other is up to you, but it's a nothing more than a shouting match.

As others have said, I think it's worth noting that NSMBU and Nintendo Land have been sticking around. PS3 and Vita certainly didn't have that. 3DS and Wii did, but they had more releases and the Wii's evergreen titles did much better.

So the PlayStation 4 is going to be unveiled on February 20th.

Sony's financial condition and Vita's failure give them more reason to go balls out with the PS4 unveiling. However, what Nintendo's done with the Wii U has given Sony a lot of reason to view Microsoft as their main console competitor.

The buy a PS3 game and get the Vita version for free strategy should sell some Vitas to PS3 owners, if enough and the right games make use of this.

There's some potential to Vita as a premium machine, as you've described, but it may not be the best way for Sony to spend its resources.

At any rate they'll never kill the thing off until they find themselves unable to support it. It's a waste of money and reputation. Instead, Sony will reduce production and marketing expenses to meet the low demand of the system.
 
Don't you guys think that comparing the Wii U Vs the Vita Performance it's a horrible benchmark to use? From where did this better than Vita sentiment became a good thing? Vita and Wii U position have nothing in common, so I'm trying to understand the motivations for that.
 

L Thammy

Member
It IS a horrible benchmark. But the hardware numbers are similar (around 10K) and the Vita's still fresh in people's minds. It's natural that it be used to express the Wii U's apparent failure.
 

donny2112

Member
If Nintendo somehow made a hybrid console that fused both lines together they would have a seriously unstoppable array of 1st party titles that really would allow them to compete and possibly dominate the market.

Hmm. Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart U or just Mario Kart 7. Which way would be better for Nintendo's bottom line?

Stupid idea is still stupid no matter how many times it is brought up. Having two profitable lines is better than having one profitable line. It does not take a rocket scientist to recognize this very simple mathematical fact. 2 > 1
 
It IS a horrible benchmark. But the hardware numbers are similar (around 10K) and the Vita's still fresh in people's minds. It's natural that it be used to express the Wii U's apparent failure.

If your proposition is that the Wii U isn't a failure, using the Vita for your comparison makes the argument look horrible and false.

I must add I don't think the Wii U is a failure, too early for that, thus I wonder why posters don't use arguments that show the factors that could enable a better performance for the Wii U. I say this because using Vita will cause those types of reasoning (Wii U future performance) to be dismissed because of the "flawed" (IMO) logic behind them. There's a better discussion to be had here and it's being blocked by the better than Vita arguments.

Not trying to offend anyone in particular with my post, it's just a general comment.
 
So the PlayStation 4 is going to be unveiled on February 20th.

On the one hand, this should give us our first look at third party support for the system.

On the other hand, it is taking place in New York City, meaning that the most likely Japanese games to be shown are pretty much just the huge, global megahit franchises and maybe some launch titles as opposed to a wide base of titles that appeal to various Japanese niches.

On the plus side, it should still make the beginning of when we can start comparing the line-ups of the Wii U and PS4.

The Playstation reveal should mostly be about the goals and aims of the new Playstation, as well as showing off maybe one or two key titles with a bunch of target renders teasing future developments. I don't think Sony would reveal more than that just yet.

Although in that sense I suppose that we would end up with the same amount of insight regarding both lineups at around the end of the year.
 
Hmm. Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart U or just Mario Kart 7. Which way would be better for Nintendo's bottom line?

Stupid idea is still stupid no matter how many times it is brought up. Having two profitable lines is better than having one profitable line. It does not take a rocket scientist to recognize this very simple mathematical fact. 2 > 1

If you have the capacity to service both in a way that it doesn't impact your brand value and customer loyalty it's a great strategy, but if you can't as it happened on the latter years of the Wii because you are resource/product starved it's a long term losing proposition so I can see the logic for those claims.

It's baffling to me that Nintendo it's struggling getting software out the door in a timely manner, in the previous generation even though they weren't making HD games the tech and knowledge transfer was booming everywhere for the development of games for HD machines and mobile devices. This shouldn't be happening to Nintendo.
 

EvetS

Member
I realize that new games don't grow on trees and all that, but Nintendo should at least hurry up with releasing the VC so that at least there's some incentive in getting something to play with. Not to mention more exposure for e-shop titles as they should be quicker to turn around than full-fledged games.
 

big youth

Member
NSMBU is certainly a system seller, but obviously not as effective as Nintendo expected. in retrospect perhaps they should have packaged Mario with the system and released Nintendo Land a few weeks after the system's launch.

Though Wii came early and GC had a short lifespan, it was supported until its successor hit. I don't think it can be compared to DC which was a huge money sink from the beginning and marked Sega's end as a hardware maker. DC also ceased production quite early.

How did the Wii come early? It was 5 years after the GC, and 1 year after the 360.

GC and Wii were both very similar in that they got almost no support in their final 2 years. Trust me, I remember the GC drought very well. Jungle Beat was one of the few saving graces.
 

L Thammy

Member
If your proposition is that the Wii U isn't a failure, using the Vita for your comparison makes the argument look horrible and false.

I must add I don't think the Wii U is a failure, too early for that, thus I wonder why posters don't use arguments that show the factors that could enable a better performance for the Wii U. I say this because using Vita will cause those types of reasoning (Wii U future performance) to be dismissed because of the "flawed" (IMO) logic behind them. There's a better discussion to be had here and it's being blocked by the better than Vita arguments.

Not trying to offend anyone in particular with my post, it's just a general comment.

I agree with what you're saying, but people will be most strongly affected by current information. Look at it like this:

Individual A looks at the Wii U and says "Hey! This looks like the Vita." This causes individual B to respond to A with "No, it isn't really like the Vita."

The conversation occurs because it's easy to compare the Wii U to the Vita. If and when it becomes more difficult the conversation will be less likely to occur.

Hmm. Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart U or just Mario Kart 7. Which way would be better for Nintendo's bottom line?

Stupid idea is still stupid no matter how many times it is brought up. Having two profitable lines is better than having one profitable line. It does not take a rocket scientist to recognize this very simple mathematical fact. 2 > 1

Successful product lines being the key to the thing. If the handheld business can't work outside of Japan and the console business can't work inside (or maybe can't work at all) it may be better to have one better supported line.

Let's say 2017's Nintendo can't release Mario Kart U2 on time and can't sell Mario Kart 8 in America. It may then be better to have the same product available where both can buy it. Games in both territories can be developed in a more timely manner and have a platform they can sell on.
 
The Playstation reveal should mostly be about the goals and aims of the new Playstation, as well as showing off maybe one or two key titles with a bunch of target renders teasing future developments. I don't think Sony would reveal more than that just yet.

Although in that sense I suppose that we would end up with the same amount of insight regarding both lineups at around the end of the year.

There will no doubt be a sizzle real of footage for upcoming games even if most of them don't get officially unveiled untill later/E3
 

Takao

Banned
One week after launch, Demon Gaze (PSVita) has surpassed 50,000 units in sales (retail+PSN): http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/590/590492/

To celebrate the sales there will be free DLC for the next four weeks.

It's a niche game, but that's a great result. I'm really interested in knowing how well Ys: Celceta sold on PSN, as it was equally supply constrained, yet managed the best debut for Ys on Sony hardware before dropping like a rock.
 

DrWong

Member
Congratulations to Rarity for winning both by units and percentage!

Code:
BY UNITS                             BY PERCENTAGE

  1   227,576  Rarity                   1  182.3%  Rarity
  2   248,924  deathcobra               2  192.1%  Nekki
  3   255,150  Nekki                    3  236.3%  Mpl90
  4   333,316  Yeshua                   4  252.2%  deathcobra
  5   338,282  Mpl90                    5  261.5%  lunchwithyuzo
  6   349,924  Bruno MB                 6  272.0%  Yeshua
  7   358,924  donny2112                7  283.9%  electroplankton
  8   361,890  DrWong                   8  291.4%  MasterSheen
  9   366,178  XDDX                     9  292.1%  DrWong
 10   375,316  hiska-kun               10  294.0%  Smiles and Cries
 11   390,282  Smiles and Cries        11  296.0%  The_lascar
 12   406,312  lunchwithyuzo           12  317.3%  donny2112
 13   409,144  Green Slime             13  319.8%  Orgen
 14   443,184  Gianni Merryman         14  322.2%  hiska-kun
 15   486,890  The_lascar              15  327.2%  Road
 16   496,837  Road                    16  330.2%  Gianni Merryman
 17   503,316  MasterSheen             17  336.4%  Bruno MB
 18   528,316  electroplankton         18  365.0%  XDDX
 19   540,924  Orgen                   19  369.3%  Green Slime
 20   628,316  KuwabaraTheMan          20  393.3%  KuwabaraTheMan

                                        Famitsu   electropla Yeshua   Orgen    lunchwit Nekki    Gianni M donny211 Bruno MB Green Sl Road     XDDX     deathcob The_lasc DrWong   MasterSh Mpl90    Smiles a Rarity   Kuwabara hiska-kun
[PSP] Digimon Adventures                    58983      75000    60000    68000    56789    50000    80000    80000    77000    55000    44444    80000    70000    40000    55000    70000    55000    38000    64000    75000    59000
[PS3+360] DmC: Devil May Cry               149696     145000   100000   234000   167890   160000   186000   185000   152000    65000   111111   110000   150000   150000   165000   120000    90000   120000    86000    90000   128000
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf            403931     650000   500000   572000   567890   450000   540000   500000   462000   380000   444444   385000   450000   580000   520000   650000   510000   556000   470000   510000   500000
[3DS] Fantasy Life                          66630      85000   100000    71000    87654    60000    30000   125000   140000   145000   111111   150000   140000    80000   100000    90000    82000    96000    49000   150000   146000
[WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U               75715     240000   150000   229000   187654   200000   190000   125000   165000   165000   222222   160000   125000   185000   150000   200000   180000   165000   129000   210000   150000
[WIU] Hardware                             121121     200000   200000   243000   210123   180000   220000   220000   230000   250000   333333   240000   190000   290000   240000   190000   170000   190000   143000   350000   225000

UNIT DIFF                                       0     528316   333316   540924   406312   255150   443184   358924   349924   409144   496837   366178   248924   486890   361890   503316   338282   390282   227576   628316   375316

STATISTICS
                                         Famitsu GAF AVERAGE   MIN      MAX     OVER     UNDER   CLOSEST BY
[PSP] Digimon Adventures                   58,983     62,612   38,000   80,000      60%      40%   59,000 hiska-kun
[PS3+360] DmC: Devil May Cry              149,696    135,750   65,000  234,000      45%      55%  150,000 deathcobra
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf           403,931    509,867  380,000  650,000      90%      10%  385,000 XDDX
[3DS] Fantasy Life                         66,630    101,888   30,000  150,000      85%      15%   71,000 Orgen
[WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U              75,715    176,394  125,000  240,000     100%       0%  125,000 donny2112
[WIU] Hardware                            121,121    225,723  143,000  350,000     100%       0%  143,000 Rarity

iXB3nFk62bKba.png
Top 10 for me! Cool. Congrat' to the winner. Thanks for the results.
 

Takao

Banned
Wow, 50k after 1 week! Clearly such games are quite profitable on the Vita, so we should get many more of them in the future.

Well, this developer has primarily only made PC, and 360 games, so yes, 50k is a big deal to them. I don't think it's a coincidence that this week they announced a port of one of their 360/PC games to Vita.
 
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