rosaceadude2112
Member
In summary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLKnCeeAW48
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Game Informer: Thief (Eidos Montreal, PC/PS4/"Next-Gen", 2014) [Up: Mag Info In OP]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Brb guys, going to go blackjack my hooded taffer, if you know what I mean.
Seriously, though, this sounds great. The coverage preview sounded extremely encouraging in emphasizing a faithfulness to the original and the fact that players will have to take their time. I've played a lot of the original 3 games, though I've yet to beat any of them. It's just such a rewarding type of stealth. Open levels, lots of room for adaptation when things go wrong, you can actually survive in combat if you need to. Hopefully this game retains all of that.
It seems as though Focus doesn't allow you to see through walls. I didn't see it mentioned anyway. Highlighting points of interest is hardly game breaking. From this early sound of things, I'm very excited. Then again, I'm not one to gripe and moan about a bit of modernization here and there. Dishonored was one of my favorite games of last year because I could feel such a similarity to Thief. And Absolution I thought was tremendous and much closer to Hitman 2 perfection that Blood Money ever was, though the detection system was a bit fucked.
All in all, I think this will be great. I eagerly await a trailer. Here's hoping the guards are still as hilarious as Thief II.
Edit: Can someone link me to screenshots? I can't find them.
maniac-kun
Member
Get over the fact that the art style is kinda similar to Dishonored this is a THIEF game.
I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
Never played Thief, but I'm open in getting into it.
Question to the old fans: does this get the Tomb Raider treatment? I mean, does it look like the 'verse will be rebooted, with the characters and the like? Also, for Tomb Raider that was pretty reasonable -- would it be for Thief?
Question to the old fans: does this get the Tomb Raider treatment? I mean, does it look like the 'verse will be rebooted, with the characters and the like? Also, for Tomb Raider that was pretty reasonable -- would it be for Thief?
I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
A thousand times, THANK YOU for this post.
First thing I noticed
Damn you modern gaming
They did a pretty solid job with Deus Ex, so lets give them the benefit of the doubt...at least for now.
Damn you modern gaming
They did a pretty solid job with Deus Ex, so lets give them the benefit of the doubt...at least for now.
maniac-kun
Member
Thief - Level 1, Lord Bafford's Manor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm6oFQIRZi8
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxzT6Q-V3Wg
I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
one is an action game while the other is a "stealth"
they should not share any gameplay elements
rosaceadude2112
Member
I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
Metal Gear Rising is a game where you run up to people to and kill them in cool ways. Thief is a game where you use subtle cues like sound effects to determine where enemies are so you can best avoid them, and careful observation will reveal hidden secrets and new pathways.
I don't think it's a reboot, just the next logical sequel since everything seems to be similar from the concept artwork.
What difference does it make? The developers know what the system is, they just can't say a name. It's not like developers won't be able to work on the system until it's announced.
It seems they are rebooting some stuff, it honestly wasn't needed, the universe was pretty awesome as it was.
I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
I want to believe, trust me I do. Thief's like the last franchise I have close to me that's not A) dead or B) shat on by this generation. But it's so easy to think they're going to fuck it up.
StoppedInTracks
Member
If I had to nitpick: Navigation Beacon? Ugh.
It looks like you do know.
People don't like those, first, because it's becoming a thing that every game has regardless of genre or need (like regenerating health for example), and second because a lot of balance and challenge and proper level design might be lost with it. I mean, I don't hate it in Batman, it makes sense due to the character. I haven't played MGR so I don't know about that, but it feels more like a lazy, focus-tested checkbox ticking endeavor than a real need for some games, especially a super stealth oriented one.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
What?
Interesting post, duckroll. I agree completely.
I highly doubt they'll show a beacon to you where the item you need to steal is. Would kill the aspect of listening to conversations and reading notes. Either you can toggle it or it's for minor stuff.
I highly doubt they'll show a beacon to you where the item you need to steal is. Would kill the aspect of listening to conversations and reading notes. Either you can toggle it or it's for minor stuff.
phosphor112
Banned
Yes please.
OF COURSE they're going to fuck it up -- it's just a matter of degree!
They can either moderately fuck up (DX:HR) or majorly fuck up (Hitman: Absolution, Tomb Raider) so you have to gauge the level of fuck up that you're willing to endure.
Well stealth games are just action games where you try not to be seen.
Again, even if we were to think of it as a completely different genre it's incredibly narrow minded to say that games in different genres should not share any gameplay elements. This is actually factually untrue. Most games do share similar elements across genres, and the ones who know how to mix experiences in effective ways are often the best ones.
Puzzle games have scoring mechanics.
Action games have scoring mechanics.
Shooting games have scoring mechanics.
That's just one example.
Krappadizzle
Member
Hail to the Thief!
Can't wait to see some gameplay. This series is long overdue for a game.
Can't wait to see some gameplay. This series is long overdue for a game.
RustyNails
Member
Focus mode sounds eerily similar to Deus Ex: HR's yellow outline mode.
I agree on the bolded part but Thief is a game that heavily depends on map awareness and exploration and whatever and thinking I'll probably have to play it with Batman mode filter just bums me out.I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
I wish they would just "augment" real vision, not turn you into a fucking Predator.
Of All Trades
Member
We aren't in the late 90s/early 00s where "careful observation" means looking at where the textures and lighting in an otherwise largely barren environment converge poorly due to technical limitations and make secret passages ludicrously obvious. When I play a game in 2012 I expect a desk I encounter it to look like someone actually uses it, not have a single candlestick, an inkpot, and a few coins.
Thief also depended on the player looking at a glowing box at the bottom of the screen to tell them if they were actually in shadows or not.
RustyNails
Member
Yeah...Kinda felt a thud there.
Focus doesn't make my blood boil quite yet. I'm inferring that it's limited in some way, and that the player can choose not to upgrade it if they want. It sounds similar to some of the augs in Human Revolution in that regard.
We need to start quantizing these fuckups so we can have listwars with them.
We need to start quantizing these fuckups so we can have listwars with them.
Wrong, there much more puzzle games. You get a problem and have to find a solution with limited options and without using the direct way. It's the same reason, why Punch-Out is much more a puzzle game then an sports game.Well stealth games are just action games where you try not to be seen.
With this in mind something like Focus is giving players hints. The bigger problem is there thought of making "fighting fun". Fighting should never be fun in an stealth game, it should be horrible! You should don't want to fight!
ChiefofCitadelSecurity
Member
I like what I'm seeing and reading. Never played the Thief games before, this announcement is probably gonna speed that process up. I can't wait to see what Visual Works does with this.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Disarkham's Creef
Well, they could certainly fuck it up, but like I said, if they do, it probably will have little to do with there being a focus mode, which is a pretty reasonable modern game mechanic for games featuring a character who is supposed to be super capable and more aware of the surroundings than a normal person.
What people should be concerned about is how interesting and varied the missions are, how fun it is to play, how good the level design is, and whether the AI is actually interesting. Being able to see what can be used to climb and where enemies are ultimately only provide the player with information. Good design would mean that the game offers many different options to approach a scenario, and by highlighting those to players who want to know what their options are, it helps inform them of how they can better play the game. Bad design would be if the game has very limited options to begin with, and by highlighting that obvious path, the game becomes an exercise in simply following the dots. The latter is what most people fear, but the crux of the problem is not such a feedback system, but the way the game is actually designed.
That's all I'm trying to say here!
Sure, I think preference for how such a mode is visually depicted is fair. The Predator vision is pretty overused. But I just think it's important to note that the problems with autogaming lie much deeper than just having some sort of "focus mode". It's just bad design.
Messofanego
Banned
And now for the next year, Eidos Montreal will be on damage control over Focus Mode much like they were on Deus Ex HR.
They'll appease the hardcore fans by making it a toggle, and removed on harder difficulties.
Their forums are going to get wrecked
They'll appease the hardcore fans by making it a toggle, and removed on harder difficulties.
Their forums are going to get wrecked
Pretty much my sentiment.
It is odd there's focus and there's also multiple paths, both kind of eliminate each other.
The fact of the matter is that the stupid people out there vastly outnumber the smart people, so to get their game to sell they have to make some concessions to the stupid people.
All the complaining in the world isn't going to suddenly force publishers to not want to make money. You aren't going to see the kind of in depth games you used to at this kind of budget level, so you'll have to either accept some concessions or find a new hobby.
At least it looks like you can opt out of using this focus mode for most things.
All the complaining in the world isn't going to suddenly force publishers to not want to make money. You aren't going to see the kind of in depth games you used to at this kind of budget level, so you'll have to either accept some concessions or find a new hobby.
At least it looks like you can opt out of using this focus mode for most things.
Also in the case of Thief looking for secrets was a big part of gameplay and sometimes dem chalices were pretty fucking well hidden, so I dunno how focus mode bodes for treasure hunting.
But yeah, considering every game has batman mode (and sometimes even batman combat), I guess no one can say it's unexpected.
Uhh... fighting should be fun. It should be discouraged by something else. Setting out to make a game where parts of it are simply not fun is a dumb idea. Yes, you shouldn't be seen in a stealth game, but when you do, you shouldn't need to curse the game for burdening you with a shitty mechanic.
rosaceadude2112
Member
What in god's name are you even talking about
Why is it odd? Having multiple ways to approach a situation doesn't mean that every option is meant to be obscured and hidden to be found by the player. That's one way of designing it, but another way would be to inform the player of the options available and let the player decide what approach to take. The gameplay would be in choosing and executing the plan, rather than looking for the options to begin with.
I think that a focus system does imply one thing though - the game's pace will be much faster than previous Thief games. It means the game will likely be designed around allowing the player to make faster decisions on the spot as things are happening, rather than slowly investigating the entire level and taking a deliberate approach to plan and execute their strategy. This will surely be disappointing for those who expected a game like that. But why would anyone be expecting such a game from the studio which developed Deus Ex: HR, and the publisher which released Hitman Absolution?
This. Even though I enjoyed Hitman, I can at least understand it's flaws. And before it came out, many people were so upset Instinct would allow you to see people through walls. And Instict did play a role in one of that game's fundamental shortcomings, but it wasn't the fact that you could see enemies or even their paths. It was the fact that it was necessary to use in most attempts at evading detection because the AI was hyper aware and suspicious. It was a flawed game with a magic vision feature, but it wasn't that feature that made it a flawed game.
I'm looking at it in context with other news about this game, which largely seems encouraging. The nav beacon strikes as more Dead Space-esque. If you need to see where to go, press a button and you will get an indication. If you don't, then don't. I hardly think it will be some constant on screen presence screaming "GO HERE! DO THIS!" That would be fundamentally stupid and antithetical to the nature of Thief.
Also, I'll ask again, where are these screenshots?
But you could easily fight one or two guards in earlier Thief games. Even on harder difficulty levels. Not sure what helpless version of Garrett you're remembering but he could always hold his own.
I'm honestly not sure why people are reacting so negatively to a "focus mode" in a modern action adventure game. Almost every single game has a mechanic of this sort, and it's not always bad. Does it simplify a game and make it easier? Sure. But when you're trying to sell a game to 5-10 million people, shrug.
I mean let's step back for a moment and think about this: Metal Gear Rising has a ton of praise here on GAF. I would think it's fair to say most people who have played it so far really like it. Yet it has all of these things:
- An AR Mode which highlights all enemies even behind walls, shows where items on the leve are, and highlights anything which can be cut.
- Blade Mode events which highlights the specific targets you need to aim for.
- Tons of QTEs.
But the game still rocks. Why? Because it's fun, it's well designed, and the challenges in the game are designed around knowing what tools and feedback the players have at their disposal. Less information doesn't always make for a better game. More information to point out stuff which might be less obvious to certain players isn't always a bad thing either. It's all in how it's used.
Now, this game could be a steaming pile of turd, but if it is, I'm willing to bet that it won't be because of focus mode.
Pretty much this.