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[cartman414]

Ignoring that the "7 year old" comments are obviously referring to performance and not how "new" the chips are, how do you figure the architecture is more similar to ps4/720? The CPU is IBM three core like the 360, and the CELL also uses an IBM core. The ps4/720 use AMD x86 arch. It's also using a discrete CPU and GPU while the two next gen consoles use a single APU. I'm not an expert by any means, but I would think that's a huge change in architecture going to APU.

Isn't PS4 an APU + GPU design?

 

[H_Prestige]

Isn't PS4 an APU + GPU design?

Nope, just APU

 

[Wickerbasket]

To each his own , but nothing about this game looks fun at the moment. It's the cute Sony game that I end up trying because it looks different and usually end up being bored with.

That's nice, but he was using the picture as a graphics comparison.

Which game will end up having the better gameplay wasn't part of the discussion.

Can't really judge a game until you play it.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Project Gotham 3, Kameo and Pefect Dark Zero are not marginal improvements over the previous gen, they exhibit a complexity of effects well above what previous gen offered. Then you had previous gen ports running at twice the resolution with better AA, anisotropic filtering, in general with better image quality. Not equal or never worse... but better. How many Wii U ports run from 360 AAA games run at 1080P? Mass Effect, CoD, BAtman?

As you can see it's a world of difference to the situation you have with the Wii U, that's just plain reality.

That's the biggest compliment you could make to KZ 4. A launch game that looks comparable to what a highend PC's which cards that alone would cost what the entire PS4 probably will cost or 80% (asuming a 7950ish card), but yea, biggest kudos you can come up with.

You are just lying to make yourself feel better about the console. Don't know why you need to reach those heights, just accept reality.

You should make a "Let's reminisce on the Xbox 360's launch" and post videos and photos of the best launch titles.

 

[Wickerbasket]

You should make a "Let's reminisce on the Xbox 360's launch" and post videos and photos of the best launch titles.

I thought we already had a thread like that not long ago comparing launches?

I swear the same arguments pop up every few weeks.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter was out by March of 2006. The comparison to the 360 launch is looking sillier by the day. Quake 4 for 360 was a brutal port and it's still much, much better than Doom 3 Xbox (or even Riddick), as is Condemned.

 

[hellclerk]

Project Gotham 3, Kameo and Pefect Dark Zero are not marginal improvements over the previous gen, they exhibit a complexity of effects well above what previous gen offered. Then you had previous gen ports running at twice the resolution with better AA, anisotropic filtering, in general with better image quality. Not equal or never worse... but better. How many Wii U ports run from 360 AAA games run at 1080P? Mass Effect, CoD, BAtman?

As you can see it's a world of difference to the situation you have with the Wii U, that's just plain reality.

That's the biggest compliment you could make to KZ 4. A launch game that looks comparable to what a highend PC's which cards that alone would cost what the entire PS4 probably will cost or 80% (asuming a 7950ish card), but yea, biggest kudos you can come up with.

You are just lying to make yourself feel better about the console. Don't know why you need to reach those heights, just accept reality.

I'm sorry, you might have some assumptions about what consoles I own, and I can tell you, it's not a Wii U. I'm a PC player, and I can guarantee you, I can likely pull of KZ4 visuals with a $150 HD7790.

Moreso, I think it's a bit disingenuous to compare games designed for the system with long development cycles to ports made in a matter of months. The Wii U version of Need for Speed was made in three months by a team of ten, and it runs and looks better than Batman, Mass Effect, and CoD. What does that tell you about the hardware versus the people developing for it? PGR, Kameo, and PDZ were all running on the Xbox before the 360 came around. The same Xbox that ran that Chronicles of Riddick game, which I think looked better than any of those games you mentioned.

So again, take off the rose colored glasses. This happens every gen.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter was out by March of 2006. The comparison to the 360 launch is looking sillier by the day. Quake 4 for 360 was a brutal port and it's still much, much better than Doom 3 Xbox (or even Riddick), as is Condemned.

Fight Night Round 3 looked better than anything else before it too. I remember being blown away with that game.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm sorry, you might have some assumptions about what consoles I own, and I can tell you, it's not a Wii U. I'm a PC player, and I can guarantee you, I can likely pull of KZ4 visuals with a $150 HD7790.

Moreso, I think it's a bit disingenuous to compare games designed for the system with long development cycles to ports made in a matter of months. The Wii U version of Need for Speed was made in three months by a team of ten, and it runs and looks better than Batman, Mass Effect, and CoD. What does that tell you about the hardware versus the people developing for it? PGR, Kameo, and PDZ were all running on the Xbox before the 360 came around. The same Xbox that ran that Chronicles of Riddick game, which I think looked better than any of those games you mentioned.

So again, take off the rose colored glasses. This happens every gen.

So Nintendoland. That's 1080 p right? Or is it a rushed port?

 

[teh_pwn]

Launch. Software.

We haven't even seen Nintendo's first big graphical foray into HD yet with Pikmin 3. Seriously I'm not sure if you're trolling or just dense as hell.

Launch software of newer consoles typically a mixed bag, but has games running with last generation engines at higher resolutions and framerate, or newly implemented engines poorly optimized. Both are a league better. There was no uncertainty that Dreamcast was superior with Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur and even shovelware like Gauntlet Legends looked better.

I am amazed that people still are clinging to the idea that Wii U is substantially faster than last generation hardware when all of the facts demand otherwise.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Launch software of newer consoles typically a mixed bag, but has games running with last generation engines at higher resolutions and framerate, or newly implemented engines poorly optimized. Both are a league better. There was no uncertainty that Dreamcast was superior with Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur and even shovelware like Gauntlet Legends looked better.

I am amazed that people still are clinging to the idea that Wii U is substantially faster than last generation hardware when all of the facts demand otherwise.

But it can run Xbox 360 games with slightly better textures and a few extra lines of resolution at 30 fps! Sure, its not 1080 p yet, but look at how far the Xbox has come, clearly the Wii U will advance just as much!

 

[hellclerk]

So Nintendoland. That's 1080 p right? Or is it a rushed port?

Yes, because Nintendoland, like Wii Sports before it, was the showcase for its console's graphics, a true testament to those techno-wizards at Nintendo. Doesn't get much better than this folks.

Spoiler

If you can't tell, I'm being very sarcastic right now

 

[Refreshment.01]

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter was out by March of 2006. The comparison to the 360 launch is looking sillier by the day. Quake 4 for 360 was a brutal port and it's still much, much better than Doom 3 Xbox (or even Riddick), as is Condemned.

Condenned is a nice example, basically you got the pretty expensive stencil shadows for the previous gen hardware runing with better texturing and higher resolution. People take for granted now how marked was the step in IQ even when talking about quick ports from previous generation games. Surprised no one posted a Red Dead screen to make a point. Throw that game to a Gforce Titan and it still looks like Sh!t, guess that means: "Titan = Wii U 1.5x lolz, k , thxz, bye!"

I don't know what is up with the same squad of guys bringing up the same tired disscussion when is not even close by any means. They get proven wrong each time, then undig the same damn stupi argument at the first chance. Drop it already and never talk about it is the reasonable thing to do.

I'm sorry, you might have some assumptions about what consoles I own, and I can tell you, it's not a Wii U. I'm a PC player, and I can guarantee you, I can likely pull of KZ4 visuals with a $150 HD7790.

Moreso, I think it's a bit disingenuous to compare games designed for the system with long development cycles to ports made in a matter of months. The Wii U version of Need for Speed was made in three months by a team of ten, and it runs and looks better than Batman, Mass Effect, and CoD. What does that tell you about the hardware versus the people developing for it? PGR, Kameo, and PDZ were all running on the Xbox before the 360 came around. The same Xbox that ran that Chronicles of Riddick game, which I think looked better than any of those games you mentioned.

So again, take off the rose colored glasses. This happens every gen.

Tsk, tsk, i'll tell you a secret.... I didn't made the KZ 4 vs Crysis 3 comparison. Go read some posts back. Thanks XD

360 had rushed ports that double the resolution and image quality of the last gen counter parts. So again, this doesn't rest merit to my argument. Wii U rushed ports didn't reach those levels.

Edit:just read the comment about Riddick, disscussion over my friend. Not gonna waste time here. Sorry.

 

[teh_pwn]

But it can run Xbox 360 games with slightly better textures and a few extra lines of resolution at 30 fps! Sure, its not 1080 p yet, but look at how far the Xbox has come, clearly the Wii U will advance just as much!

It's like these guys never lived in previous console generations.

Here is an example of how shovelware looks 5x better. Very little effort in optimizing in a game that never was tweaked a lot:
N64
Dreamcast

And people do overstate console engine optimization. I think 360 peaked with Gears of War, and PS3 with Uncharted 2.

But back to the OP, talking developers should have happened since...SNES. But shorter term for Wii U at the very least in 2010. The fact the system is out 6 months later and they're working on it? Holy shit if I were a Nintendo investor I'd look to sell. These guys have no idea what they're doing. Fundamentally they limited themselves with their console hardware. A controller that is not applicable to general platforms, and a hardware architecture that requires investing millions into porting each game. I mean, what did they expect? At the very least they should offer thoroughly developed toolchains to 3rd parties for free to assist them, but I'm not even sure Nintendo knows how to code for Wii U.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yes, because Nintendoland, like Wii Sports before it, was the showcase for its console's graphics, a true testament to those techno-wizards at Nintendo. Doesn't get much better than this folks.

Spoiler

If you can't tell, I'm being very sarcastic right now

Ok, what about New Super Mario Wii U?

Or anything else from Nintendo?

So if its a third party not creating impressive visuals, it is because they are quick ports. Even though last generation quick ports still netted vastly increased resolution and often better framerates and texture work.

If its Nintendo, then its because they don't want to show anything off. Will they ever?

Makes sense. So much sense it makes my brain hurt.

 

[Zombie James]

Finally, Iwata is aware of the fact that many people hold the belief that Wii U is underpowered, and feels they need to work on remedying such misunderstandings.

The Wii U being underpowered is a misunderstanding?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I wonder what this revitalization will consist of. I find it hard to believe it will just be game related.

 

[ASIS]

Pointless to "come at you bro" because you will just use the art vs. raw graphics argument and "my opinion". This argument has been done to death and always ends up that way

"Flows better than GoW 3" i assume you are talking about God of War 3? Are you talking about framerate or some "artistic" thing on what is or isent "flow" according to you?

Nintendoland absolutely does not look better than Uncharted 1, Reach or GoW 3, not on a graphical level. Ill give you Halo 3 and ODST.

I thought the "come at me bro" would be enough to communicate my sarcasm, but apparently not.

I really do like the way Nintendoland looks, that much is true. But I'm not dumb enough to compare them to other titles of other genres and say it is a fair argument. I just put in Banjo & Kazooie because they look kind of similar in the screenshots, that's about it.

 

[H_Prestige]

Launch software of newer consoles typically a mixed bag, but has games running with last generation engines at higher resolutions and framerate, or newly implemented engines poorly optimized. Both are a league better. There was no uncertainty that Dreamcast was superior with Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur and even shovelware like Gauntlet Legends looked better.

I am amazed that people still are clinging to the idea that Wii U is substantially faster than last generation hardware when all of the facts demand otherwise.

It has twice the RAM. That means twice the power.

 

[Into]

I thought the "come at me bro" would be enough to communicate my sarcasm, but apparently not.

I really do like the way Nintendoland looks, that much is true. But I'm not dumb enough to compare them to other titles of other genres and say it is a fair argument. I just put in Banjo & Kazooie because they look kind of similar in the screenshots, that's about it.

Oh, i did not pick up on your sarcasm MJ. But you are right that the games cannot really be compared visually as they are so different

Ill moonwalk outta here

 

[Dion Blaster]

I totally understand the financial reasons for not putting games on Wii U, but aren't developers kind of shooting themselves in the foot? Putting a lot of current or cross-gen port on the console (at the same time as PS360) might have cultivated an audience that will be interested in more third party titles down the line. As it is they have completely eliminated an entire console as a possible source of revenue for the most part.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I thought the "come at me bro" would be enough to communicate my sarcasm, but apparently not.

I got your sarcasm, but used it as a prime opportunity for a lame joke.

 

[Forsaken82]

How many Wii U ports run from 360 AAA games run at 1080P? Mass Effect, CoD, BAtman?

Wouldn't a better question simply be how many Wii U Ports look like Gun from the 360 launch (from a next gen comparison stand point)? In my opinion no Wii U Launch port looks as bad as Gun did during the 360 launch. Why is it ultimately expected that these ports have to be so superior on the Wii U?

 

[hellclerk]

Tsk, tsk, i'll tell you a secret.... I didn't made the KZ 4 vs Crysis 3 comparison. Go read some posts back. Thanks XD

360 had rushed ports that double the resolution and image quality of the last gen counter parts. So again, this doesn't rest merit to my argument. Wii U rushed ports didn't reach those levels.

Edit:just read the comment about Riddick, disscussion over my friend. Not gonna waste time here. Sorry.

Oh I know, I'm being contrary to pull back some of the more egregious claims about the 360 launch. Yes, I know Riddick and Doom 3 all ran like shite on the Xbox. I know that the power of the HD consoles allowed for massive bumps in resolution, and easier access to effects once deemed too expensive on consoles. My point is that the initial transition wasn't about exploiting the power of the console so much as it was getting your games up and running. Now you could make a decent argument, based on poor framerates and minimum upscaling that the Wii U lacks that capability, but I could make an equally decent argument that such ports failed to understand the new architecture based on some games running like shit and other games running solid. The thing is, without numbers or hard data or even first party graphics showcases (where's Factor 5 when you need them), we can't really pin this puppy down.

Now let me be clear, I don't believe that the Wii U is going to be as powerful as either of Sony or MS's offerings, but I also don't believe the gap will be insurmountable. The Wii suffered from one major, damning hardware flaw, and that was its lack of programmable shaders. This was ultimately the biggest thing that kept 3rd parties from downporting (though I doubt they would have anyway) and also held back alot of the Wii's potential visuals relative to its usable power. Pikmen is a potential look at the hardware, but Project X might be what we're waiting for. I mean, the Wii U doesn't have to be worried about getting a Killzone port, and to say the Wii U isn't as powerful the PS4 or nexbox is understood, but to say it's underpowered says something different entirely. I will not judge the capabilities of the Wii U by this launch, rather I will judge them by future output, just as I will not judge the PS4 or Durango by their respective launches. Whether AAA games follow suit is a bit more foreboding, and that's probably the strongest argument one could make.

If its Nintendo, then its because they don't want to show anything off. Will they ever?

Makes sense. So much sense it makes my brain hurt.

Yes.

 

[ASIS]

Oh, i did not pick up on your sarcasm MJ. But you are right that the games cannot really be compared visually as they are so different

Ill moonwalk outta here

Beat it.

 

[Enjay]

I thought people hated Naughty fails Uncharted 3 for not being as good as Uncharted 2?

I see no reason why we can't hate them for both reasons.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Wouldn't a better question simply be how many Wii U Ports look like Gun from the 360 launch? In my opinion no Wii U Launch port looks as bad as Gun did during the 360 launch.

None of them look like Gun. For its time, Gun had a much higher resolution and more stable frame rate than its older gen counter part. So far the Wii U can take older gen counter parts and marginally improve resolution (literally a few lines as opposed to a doubling from 480p to 720p that Gun showed) and frame rate. So its got half the equation. If it ran any complex open 3D game at 1080 p then I would say it at least matched Gun's performance.

Yes.

Almost looks as good as Skyrim on Xbox 360. Is it running at 1080p at least? That would be nice.

 

[Into]

Beat it.

Lets get Terraria on the Wii U, i would love to play that in my bad as i dig and dig dig dig.

 

[onipex]

That's nice, but he was using the picture as a graphics comparison.

Which game will end up having the better gameplay wasn't part of the discussion.

Can't really judge a game until you play it.

My bad I quoted the wrong person. I saw a post saying it looked more fun.

 

[diaspora]

Almost looks as good as Skyrim on Xbox 360. Is it running at 1080p at least? That would be nice.

Joke post? Skyrim on consoles looks much worse.

 

[Zoramon089]

Ok, what about New Super Mario Wii U?

Or anything else from Nintendo?

So if its a third party not creating impressive visuals, it is because they are quick ports. Even though last generation quick ports still netted vastly increased resolution and often better framerates and texture work.

If its Nintendo, then its because they don't want to show anything off. Will they ever?

Makes sense. So much sense it makes my brain hurt.

Nothing in this post makes any sense. there is no "anything else". They haven't released anything aside from those two and Wii Sports (the closest Nintendoland equivalent) nor the NSMB games have ever been graphical showcases...

Also the launch "quick ports" were nothing like the ones for the Wii U. If you couldn't tell there was more effort put into 360 launch "ports" than Wii U ones then there's no point arguing with you further. Most of them weren't even by the same teams that made the originals.

Regardless, stuff like Trine 2 and NFS show that competent devs can get better performance and when Nintendo releases more games we'll see that as well. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

 

[Coolwhip]

Joke post? Skyrim on consoles looks much worse.

It's pretty obvious log4girlz is on a trolling spree.

 

[Gestault]

Launch. Software.

We haven't even seen Nintendo's first big graphical foray into HD yet with Pikmin 3. Seriously I'm not sure if you're trolling or just dense as hell.

You're saying we'll know how good it can look with Pikmin 3. If you think we simply haven't seen enough footage to have a sense of its visuals, I'll just have to disagree in general. To be fair, you might assume that Nintendo would think it was important to demonstrate, and make money selling, their new hardware with a first-party title which took advantage of the presentation capabilities of their own system. Particularly during the launch window. If they had, and you were correct, this conversation wouldn't even be taking place.

I don't disagree with the idea that these games will get better and better looking, but pretending that we have no reason to want to see what a system that came out quite some time ago is capable of is fairly "dense" on your part. There are reasonable fears that it isn't dramatically more powerful than a system that came out eight years ago.

 

[Zoramon089]

To be fair, you might assume that Nintendo would think it was important to demonstrate, and make money selling, their new hardware with a first-party title which took advantage of the presentation capabilities of their own system. Particularly during the launch window.

I don't disagree with you in principle, that these games will get better and better looking, but pretending that we have no reason to want to see what a system that came out quite some time ago is capable of is fairly "dense" on your part.

Are people forgetting they did have a tech demo at E3...even if they haven't had software showing off the hardware people are acting like they haven't done anything aside from Nintendoland and NSMBU

 

[Chinpoko_Master]

Yes.

Is this supposed to be impressive or something? lol

 

[Carpe Diem]

FACK. This thread has morphed into something completely different from the OP. Only when it's Nintendo!!!!

 

[Log4Girlz]

Nothing in this post makes any sense. there is no "anything else". They haven't released anything aside from those two and Wii Sports (the closest Nintendoland equivalent) nor the NSMB games have ever been graphical showcases...

Also the launch "quick ports" were nothing like the ones for the Wii U. If you couldn't tell there was more effort put into 360 launch "ports" than Wii U ones then there's no point arguing with you further. Most of them weren't even by the same teams that made the originals.

Regardless, stuff like Trine 2 and NFS show that competent devs can get better performance and when Nintendo releases more games we'll see that as well. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

So we are nearing the Wii U's third E3 with no graphical showcases except say X, which still looks awfully 7th gen. All ports on the Wii U are incomparable to the ports Xbox 360 got in its launch because reasons. Trine 2 and NFS and their minuscule improvements are proof the Wii U is clearly more powerful than the 7th generation by a large margin.

Got it. We agree to disagree.

 

[ASIS]

The Wii U being underpowered is a misunderstanding?

This is taken out of context I believe. This is not a response to the next gen consoles, but the general idea that Nintendo has limited the Wii U's capabilities by under powering it. In other words, they believe that the extra power would not be beneficial to them even if it was there. That's what he wants to prove.


I'd like to see how all this unfolds. Wii U is such a confusing console.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Is this supposed to be impressive or something? lol

For te Wii U? Yes. For the PS4? Lol no.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

FACK. This thread has morphed into something completely different from the OP. Only when it's Nintendo!!!!

Oh please. Microsoft and Nintendo are shit on just as much on this forum.

 

[Nekofrog]

FACK. This thread has morphed into something completely different from the OP. Only when it's Nintendo!!!!

You haven't been here long, have you?

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Is this a generational leap to you?

I think artstyle plays a big role in this. I don't think the average person will really see a giant difference in these two games when they are in motion.

You're telling me people wouldn't notice a difference playing TW101 and Knack side by side?, are you talking about people who need prescription glasses not wearing them during the viewing?

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Is this supposed to be impressive or something? lol

It's the only game that has (so far) showed glimpses of what the Wii U is capable of when developers actually put effort when making the game, but i've come to loathe it because of the amount of times that it's posted whenever nintendo warriors feel attacked or want to defend the Wii U's graphical chops.

I honestly can't wait to see what a nintendo game looks like on the Wii U when they actually put effort on it.

 

[Coolwhip]

It's the only game that has (so far) showed glimpses of what the Wii U is capable of when developers actually put effort when making the game, but i've come to loathe it because of the amount of times that it's posted whenever nintendo warriors feel attacked or want to defend the Wii U's graphical chops.

I honestly can't wait to see what a nintendo game looks like on the Wii U when they actually put effort on it.

Mario 64 2.... only 1,5 months until we see it!!!

 

[Mithos]

Is this supposed to be impressive or something? lol

It's the only game that has (so far) showed glimpses of what the Wii U is capable of when developers actually put effort when making the game, but i've come to loathe it because of the amount of times that it's posted whenever nintendo warriors feel attacked or want to defend the Wii U's graphical chops.

I honestly can't wait to see what a nintendo game looks like on the Wii U when they actually put effort on it.

AND what we saw was probably alpha/beta-code.

 

[lwilliams3]

So we are nearing the Wii U's third E3 with no graphical showcases except say X, which still looks awfully 7th gen. All ports on the Wii U are incomparable to the ports Xbox 360 got in its launch because reasons. Trine 2 and NFS and their minuscule improvements are proof the Wii U is clearly more powerful than the 7th generation by a large margin.

Got it. We agree to disagree.

I'm not sure if I would say that it is by a large margin. Anyway, most of what we can compare to are last-gen ports, launch titles, and Nintendo admitted to having transitional issues with using shaders and other next-gen features (Iwata and Miyamoto discussed that in the latest Financial report Q&A ). The hardware has been stated to be architecturally different from other consoles. The user you replied to does not have an unreasonable argument. At the very least, Nintendo and some third-party developers will be able to present more impressive results with time.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm not sure if I would say that it is by a large margin. Anyway, most of what we can compare to are last-gen ports, launch titles, and Nintendo admitted to having transitional issues with using shaders and other next-gen features (Iwata and Miyamoto discussed that in the latest Financial report Q&A ). The hardware has been stated to be architecturally different from other consoles. The user you replied to does not have an unreasonable argument. At the very least, Nintendo and some third-party developers will be able to present more impressive results with time.

I argue the type of performance increase we are seeing from ports compared to last gen is indicative of the overall power of the Wii U considering what we know about its specs. Clock speeds, power draw etc. Some may disagree but I don't see any grounds to argue the Wii U has a lot of room for improvement.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Mario 64 2.... only 1,5 months until we see it!!!

I think i'm alone on this, but i would love it if they'd make a sequel to Super Mario Bros 2 in 3d, having Wart back as the villain, and those weird egyptian/arabic looking worlds back, attacking with turnips and onions and picking up baddies... riding on magic carpets, being able to play as Mario/Luigi/Toad/Peach, i'd buy a Wii U on said game's release date.

 

[Gestault]

I hope I don't sound unreasonable when I ask this:

What game which exists or is announced for the Wii U has the expectation of looking better, graphically, than the precedent set by software currently available for the seven and eight-year-old consoles which preceded it?

I think that's a reasonable question to ask as far into it's life cycle as we are, when talking about the platform's capabilities. To be clear, I don't think hardware has anything to do with the Wii U's difficulties as a platform, but this is obviously where the conversation brought us.

 

[Galacticos]