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What would it take for JRPGs to be popular in the west again? Is it even possible?
- Thread starter BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
- Start date
Yup, they'd have to jettison much of what makes them appealing to their current fans. I don't think Bandai-Namco, Square-Enix, etc... want to destroy their current fanbases to risk appealing to people who don't have an interest in the genre.
Yoyoenix91
Neo Member
I wish that more JRPGs made it to Steam, since it seems like anything that hits Steam seems to make money somehow.
Since JRPGs were never really "popular", aside from Pokemon and Square Enix games, perhaps game developers could learn to not expect to push millions of sales. I feel expectations are unrealistic.
Since JRPGs were never really "popular", aside from Pokemon and Square Enix games, perhaps game developers could learn to not expect to push millions of sales. I feel expectations are unrealistic.
The thread is about popularity, not profitability.
jonscrambler
Member
I played plenty of JRPGs in the past, when I was a kid I can have 40 hours to spend on a game that has repetitive boring combat, not now. also I'm not 10 years old anymore, so the endless dialog and story I have to click/listen to of 10 year olds saving the world don't appeal to me anymore. SMTs are the only JRPGs that I enjoyed in the past ... decade I think.
I'm not sure if JRPGs became less popular, but they sure as hell are being localized less.
If you haven't already, give Dark Souls a try. It's fun, especially if you're patient and learn not to take your deaths too seriously. Feel free to ask for help if you're confused, but try not to spoil yourself.
It's sold around 2.3 million. That's not Skyrim level, but that's still pretty good.
If you haven't already, give Dark Souls a try. It's fun, especially if you're patient and learn not to take your deaths too seriously. Feel free to ask for help if you're confused, but try not to spoil yourself.
That1BlackGuy
Member
I doubt it, you have to understand that it's a globalization issue and thus like most industries you're going to run into culture clashes. A lot of tropes that are popular in Japan simply doesn't translate as well to the greater Western culture(s) IMO,
As shallow as it sounds if you want a Japanese created RPG to do big numbers, you got to make an RPG that appeals to western tastes but just on the basis of the genre itself it still arguably wouldn't top developers with more experience/mindshare in WPRGs like The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls, etc.
Pokemon is an outlier, its stature is in no way indicative of the genre at large IMO so I don't why people keep harping on that. It's similar to Warcraft in that regard.
As shallow as it sounds if you want a Japanese created RPG to do big numbers, you got to make an RPG that appeals to western tastes but just on the basis of the genre itself it still arguably wouldn't top developers with more experience/mindshare in WPRGs like The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls, etc.
Pokemon is an outlier, its stature is in no way indicative of the genre at large IMO so I don't why people keep harping on that. It's similar to Warcraft in that regard.
encephalon
Member
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the "pandering" issue ... seems to be a symptom of not even targeting mainstream Japan now.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I understand your point, and agree to an extent, there are gooduns out there but compared to the output of previous gens jrpgs just ain't what they used to be. It would be hard to argue that moe pandering isn't becoming more prevalent in the genre.
Also, is VC even really an rpg? Isn't it more of a strategy game?
Oblivionmancer
Member
I was going to say 'wait for Pokemon X and Y to come out' but you already mentioned Pokemon. So some other JRPG then? I dunno, more cowbell I guess.
Black Door
Banned
Plus NB already tried this (remember when they decided they were going to leave Tales and almost all their Japanese stuff bar Tekken in the motherland, because we'd be too busy gushing over Majin, Dead to Rights, and Enslaved to care about them? And how they almost went bankrupt because people are only interested in their "weeaboo" games)
Yeah, that's my problem with the genre. The battle systems of old just aren't used anymore outside a very small handful of IP's.
This is not about profitability
This whole theory might just be based on my personal preferences but here we go:
TL;DR: More stuff like Megaten, Ivalice, Yakuza, Metal Gear, and seinen manga. Less FFXIII and other stuff that falls on the same shonen tropes over and over. Basically, try to make more JRPGs for the 16-35 demographic. Japan is definitely capable of it. Maybe if they hire more professional writers in that area.
Long version: Japanese developers making RPGs for the west in my opinion should do one thing and one thing only -- recognize that people who play RPGs in the west are mostly adults and not teenagers.
Most JRPGs are still mainly made for Japanese audineces a a lot of the time that means kids and teenagers, and at most people in their 20's. A lot of that stuff falls into the shonen area (which I imagine is the most popular sector of manga in Japan). I'm not saying that stuff is bad, it's just not a great fit for the majority western console gamers.
But there are a number of Japanese video game and other media franchises that seem to be written for older audiences and as a result get a bit more notoriety in the west, or at least more critical acclaim. In anime stuff like Akria and Ghost in the Shell are the most famous examples, the latter of which I think at one time was more popular in the US than in Japan. In manga you have Berserk. I think Kojima has admitted Metal Gear also makes more money in the west than in Japan.
In RPGs specifically people have lauded Final Fantasy Tactics and the other games in Yasumi Matsuno's Ivalice universe for the maturity in their narratives, or at least their dialogue, characters, and worlds. The same goes for games like Dark Souls.
Another good example is Yakuza which leverages professional writing. Yes its intensely Japanese setting has limited its western sales potential, but western critics have still praised the narrative in each game, some of which I believe were written by an actual Japanese crime novelist. Contrast that to Toriyama's writing in FFXIII.
Big western developers have been contracting professional writers for a while now, but in most of those games the story is more like window dressing. Japanese developers seem much more prone to letting the story drive drive the game, especially in RPGs, so I think one written by a professional writer (not the people who do those light novels) on the level of Haruki Murakami (1Q84) would benefit a lot. JRPG developers have often gotten manga artists to design characters. Why not have them write the stories too?
I definitely don't think JRPG developers should change their gameplay too much. JRPGs are already incredibly unique from one another anyway. That's really a game-to-game case. Some games are action-oriented, some games are turn-based. That's an area where they need to stick to what they're good at.
TL;DR: More stuff like Megaten, Ivalice, Yakuza, Metal Gear, and seinen manga. Less FFXIII and other stuff that falls on the same shonen tropes over and over. Basically, try to make more JRPGs for the 16-35 demographic. Japan is definitely capable of it. Maybe if they hire more professional writers in that area.
Long version: Japanese developers making RPGs for the west in my opinion should do one thing and one thing only -- recognize that people who play RPGs in the west are mostly adults and not teenagers.
Most JRPGs are still mainly made for Japanese audineces a a lot of the time that means kids and teenagers, and at most people in their 20's. A lot of that stuff falls into the shonen area (which I imagine is the most popular sector of manga in Japan). I'm not saying that stuff is bad, it's just not a great fit for the majority western console gamers.
But there are a number of Japanese video game and other media franchises that seem to be written for older audiences and as a result get a bit more notoriety in the west, or at least more critical acclaim. In anime stuff like Akria and Ghost in the Shell are the most famous examples, the latter of which I think at one time was more popular in the US than in Japan. In manga you have Berserk. I think Kojima has admitted Metal Gear also makes more money in the west than in Japan.
In RPGs specifically people have lauded Final Fantasy Tactics and the other games in Yasumi Matsuno's Ivalice universe for the maturity in their narratives, or at least their dialogue, characters, and worlds. The same goes for games like Dark Souls.
Another good example is Yakuza which leverages professional writing. Yes its intensely Japanese setting has limited its western sales potential, but western critics have still praised the narrative in each game, some of which I believe were written by an actual Japanese crime novelist. Contrast that to Toriyama's writing in FFXIII.
Big western developers have been contracting professional writers for a while now, but in most of those games the story is more like window dressing. Japanese developers seem much more prone to letting the story drive drive the game, especially in RPGs, so I think one written by a professional writer (not the people who do those light novels) on the level of Haruki Murakami (1Q84) would benefit a lot. JRPG developers have often gotten manga artists to design characters. Why not have them write the stories too?
I definitely don't think JRPG developers should change their gameplay too much. JRPGs are already incredibly unique from one another anyway. That's really a game-to-game case. Some games are action-oriented, some games are turn-based. That's an area where they need to stick to what they're good at.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Too many attractive women. They need to replace them all with bald bad ass dudes
They stopped being localized regularly because they stopped being relevant.
The OP is asking how they can regain the latter in the hopes the former will follow.
MushroomSamba
Member
I agree with what you said, but I also admit it's based purely on my own anecdotal evidence. Is there a comprehensive list out there of all the RPGs that came out in Japan over the last few years? I figured there would've been a wiki, but couldn't find one.
And yeah, I'd consider VC an SRPG, but I'm not sure if that's just splitting hairs for some people.
Seriously, this is the problem. Fucking moe bullshit. I can't even play most JRPGs from the last decade or so because it's flat out embarrassing. Any medium or genre that wants to be taken seriously by people over the age of 8 can't have this childish shit in it. Also the names need to be... well, not terrible. Here is a good name for ya, "Hyperdimension Neptunia." What?
It's not a problem; I'm just saying that it isn't close to what the OP is asking for. Regardless, I personally don't think JRPGs need to change or pander to the West; the only thing we will lose by the genre becoming niche is "high-budget, event JRPGs" like the Final Fantasy series and we don't really need them to exist.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Yeah, what he said.
Black Door
Banned
And they have to have family and financial issues and spend significant amounts of time navel gazing and contemplating the universe, because nothing says "mature gaming" like the game constantly reminding the player that they're a thirtysomething loser who will never save the world
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Make it a great RPG, with compelling story, and gameplay. Also jaw-dropping visuals and soundtrack and toss in great marketing. Basically an FFVII for modern times.
Also, FF isn't almost Sonic levels of bad. Currently, it is Sonic levels of bad, if not worse. If FFXV fails to redeem things, I kinda hope SE goes under.
Also, FF isn't almost Sonic levels of bad. Currently, it is Sonic levels of bad, if not worse. If FFXV fails to redeem things, I kinda hope SE goes under.
MushroomSamba
Member
In the west? Is that really true? I honestly don't know what the sales figures are.
Saying JRPGs need to be less childish/moe because of Neptunia is like saying shooters need to be less buggy/incoherent because of Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Now tell him to go back to Call of Duty or Madden.
That'll show him.
This this this. I think the structure of JRPGs actually have a very broad appeal, but this stuff gets in the way and totally alienates Western gamers (and I'm willing to bet it also puts off a lot of Japanese gamers).
JRPG survived in the West in the Nintendo era and the Playstation era because back then you couldn't really see how anime it was since graphics were low then. but since graphics have increased, West are not interested in "anime-rpg" games.
basically, be less "anime", but then that disrupts your eastern market and makes them believe you are pandering more to the West. so its kinda a Win-Lose situation, imo.
basically, be less "anime", but then that disrupts your eastern market and makes them believe you are pandering more to the West. so its kinda a Win-Lose situation, imo.
jaundicejuice
Member
Leaving squabbling about content aside, I think, first and foremost, they would have to actually make them for consoles. The vast majority of jrpgs releases have been on handhelds over the last generation
ZombiePlatypus
Member
There's no denying the genre has fallen far from its throne when compared to the PS1/PS2 days. I think SE and Microsoft are mostly at fault.
jonscrambler
Member
so true, did people think Wild Arms, Breath of Fire, Vagrant Story, etc sold well? they sold about 500k-1 million , so about as much as Lost Odyssey or Star Ocean this gen
Jaded Alyx
Member
Mario & Luigi games do pretty well in the West don't they?
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I kind of wonder if the exchange rate will allow for more localizations. Especially if the yen goes down more and hits 110+ to the dollar like they seem to be planning.
Wouldn't be surprised if that played a role in some companies' decisions. The genre was never THAT popular, but it hasn't really gained popularity while budgets have increased for both development and localizations, all while the yen strengthened against other currencies.
Wouldn't be surprised if that played a role in some companies' decisions. The genre was never THAT popular, but it hasn't really gained popularity while budgets have increased for both development and localizations, all while the yen strengthened against other currencies.
Anime is fine (see FF, KH, Ninokuni, Fire Emblem), the games just need to be good quality. Overly animu (cute/moe) designs will always be relegated to niche audiences though. Top-rated RPGs tend do well (games don't necessarily have to be million sellers to do well btw).
Top-rated RPGs are usually fun, accessible, and have solid writing and good stories, but if they're lacking in some areas like story they make up for it in solid gameplay (Pokemon, Dark Souls).
The games also need to be localized in a timely manner. Localizing a game as close to the Japanese release as possible keeps interest from waning.
I don't think RPGs save a few have what it takes to sell millions, and these types of RPGs are series that have been around for many years. There's probably a stigma around many RPGs that keeps them from being top sellers, and many people probably don't have the patience for long games. However, RPGs generally don't have to be multimillion sellers to be successful, and it's OK if they don't.
Top-rated RPGs are usually fun, accessible, and have solid writing and good stories, but if they're lacking in some areas like story they make up for it in solid gameplay (Pokemon, Dark Souls).
The games also need to be localized in a timely manner. Localizing a game as close to the Japanese release as possible keeps interest from waning.
I don't think RPGs save a few have what it takes to sell millions, and these types of RPGs are series that have been around for many years. There's probably a stigma around many RPGs that keeps them from being top sellers, and many people probably don't have the patience for long games. However, RPGs generally don't have to be multimillion sellers to be successful, and it's OK if they don't.
Clairvoyance
Member
I love the posters saying to remove the things that the most popular JPRGs have.
encephalon
Member
Hyperdimension Neptunia has no business being some sort of "symbol" of JRPGs. Terrible JRPGs have always existed and Hyperdimension Neptunia was never going to be anything but terrible.
Edit: I don't think FFXIII really counts here either. It's not bad because it's generic or typical.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
My opinion is that I would like them to localize more JRPG's and when they do, also localize the damn titles. The words Ni No Kuni have no meaning here nor does Shin Megami Tensei.
This too. People tell me that the ugly ass anime cutscenes in Chrono Trigger (PS1 and DS) are what the characters are supposed to look like. Good thing I didn't know that in 1995.
This too. People tell me that the ugly ass anime cutscenes in Chrono Trigger (PS1 and DS) are what the characters are supposed to look like. Good thing I didn't know that in 1995.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Jrpgs can still be clearly Japanese without resorting to being overtly anime.
Like, take Binary Domain. Its not a jrpg but a third person shooter. Even with its cocky generic white hero and wise cracking bald buff black dude it still has a very distinct Japanese flavor.
Black Door
Banned
I'm not sure if hating XIII/XIV is a good enough qualification for hoping a few hundred people lose their jobs or get shackled to making social/mobile games for 10 years
But even that's colored by current tendencies for JRPG developers when it comes to target audience.
Imagine what a next-gen JRPG would look like if the characters were designed by Kentaro Miura or Hiroaki Samura.
I think one of the guys on Bravely Default said he wanted to make an RPG that "a 20 year-old woman would want to play." That's the direction they need to be headed in.
zeopower6
Member
That title is a pretty literal translation of the Japanese name. (Choujigen Game Neptunia/Superdimension Game Neptunia) But that game really isn't meant to be taken seriously, I think. I mean the lands are based on Wii/PS3/Xbox 360 and there's an enemy in the game called the "Arfoire" also known as R4. If you're going to point out how 'bad' JRPGs go, why go for the one that's intended to be humorous and purely moe as if it represents all of them? Isn't there a summon attack in one sequel where Keiji Inafune drops in as a robot or spaceship? It even has an idol singing game with bouncing boobie physics on the Vita now. Even if you hate it, it sells in Japan. x_x
But those titles sound better than "Another Country" or "True Resurrection of the Goddess".
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Those people's effort and talent would be better off put to use under a company that knows what it's doing. (Assuming SE can't get its shit together. We'll see.)
Black Door
Banned
Three years ago the response to this thread would have been "make them Dragon Age." That in itself is a scary prospect
Pinko Marx
Banned
What do I need to be a card carrying member of Jrpg gaf to post in this thread and have my opinion counted?
Seriously?
I'd like them to be even more Anime, like the tales series.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Mario anything sells in the west
Sola Scriptura
Member
Exactly. We dedicated JRPG players know how to separate the wheat from the chaff. It doesn't take us long at all to sniff out those who bash JRPGs, yet clearly aren't familiar with very many of them.
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