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[GamerJM]

Seriously, this is the problem. Fucking moe bullshit. Any medium or genre that wants to be taken seriously by people over the age of 8 can't have this childish shit in it. Also the names need to be... well, not terrible. "Hyperdimension Neptunia." What? Why?

Hyperdimension Neptunia isn't even a good game. The problem you guys are having is that you're looking at all of these garbage RPGs being released and going "Wah! What happened to Final Fantasy VII-IX?!"

I think the biggest problem is that the games that had a good chance at doing decently well in the West were on the wrong platforms. Dragon Quest IX incorporated elements from "WRPGs", Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep was basically a mainline KH game and what KH fans were waiting for since KH2, and Xenoblade also incorporated a lot of what people like about "WRPGs" and even had an explorable world. The problem was that DQ9 and KHBBS were both on the DS and PSP respectively late into their lives when people in the west stopped caring about those platforms outside of niche releases. Had they been on the 360/PS3 (heck, BBS probably could have done well on the Wii) they would have sold decently. Same for Xenoblade, but it was released as a GameStop-exclusive Wii title near the end of the Wii's life (and even then Nintendo didn't meet the demand for the game, as seen by its high prices).

Other than that every other title would have been stuck with niche status. And even DQ9 I'm not sure about.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Simpler art styles to speed up the production of HD visuals. That's what killed the genre this gen, gotta fix that problem first and foremost.

 

[Clairvoyance]

Stop pandering to the moe audience who want cute pre-teens and barely teenagers. Adult characters and story along the lines of Catherine would help.

Yeah, stop making Pokemon, Kingdom Hearts, and Final Fantasy. Ya know, the three most popular JRPGS in the west.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

But those titles sound better than "Another Country" or "True Resurrection of the Goddess".

So they should come up with better English names.

 

[Rulp]

Saying JRPGs need to be less childish/moe because of Neptunia is like saying shooters need to be less buggy/incoherent because of Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Nice picking out a game no one with taste would ever even touch. Sounds great to make disparaging remarks about a whole genre! What's next? Oh, I know, the entire first person shooter genre sucks because of ZenoClash.

Tell me, what was the last jrpg you bought.

I bet it started with the letter F.

Whoa, I just picked it because the name is ridiculous. I literally looked through a list and picked it. I don't think all modern JRPGs are that bad (I know how bad that game is). I have played plenty of old JRPGs on the snes and PS1 and I try newer ones frequently. I am not against the genre as a whole, there are just certain aspects I don't like. I am really just disappointed by a lot by new ones.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

HD development has been a huge detriment to the genre I believe as far as home consoles but on the portable gaming front they have arguably flourished as far as quality IMO; not a bad thing but the issue is that home consoles is primarily where western tastes lies (again, cultural preferences).

It's really up to larger Japanese Publishers to take the reigns in trying to continue building growth in the genre in the face of globalization because that's where any potential growth is going to come from, they have the (most available) resources.

 

[Manmademan]

Ease up on the Saturday morning anime tropes and designs.
Less moe pandering.
Better writing.

pretty much. the root of the problem is that western gamers aren't really aging out of the hobby. they're still gaming. younger gamers are actually more likely to be using smartphones or possibly handhelds.

western studios realize this and have tooled their AAA franchises appropriately. JP studios have not, and are extremely resistant to targeting jrpgs to anyone but preteens and teenagers.

there is the odd exception, but it's more often the rule than not. until it changes, jrpgs will continue to lose marketshare.

 

[FourMyle]

Persona 5

 

[Pinko Marx]

No, but I would take you far seriously if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about.

But since you don't...

You sure are aggressive.

 

[fader]

Jrpgs can still be clearly Japanese without resorting to being overtly anime.
Like, take Binary Domain. Its not a jrpg but a third person shooter. Even with its cocky generic white hero and wise cracking bald buff black dude it still has a very distinct Japanese flavor.

dont get me wrong, im not saying they should do away with Japanese culture in their games, im just saying they should not be in a heay anime tone.
im glad you mentioned that game because thats a fine example of something that would appeal to the west.
Hyperdimension Neptunia, Current Tales Series, Blazblue are examples of games that the West would just look at the cover and throw it to the side unless you are a hardcore fan like the majority of GAF.

 

[encephalon]

Really, I think it's probably important for JRPGs to embrace a cartoon (i.e. "anime") aesthetic. It's probably easier to pull off, more cost effective, and sustainable overall. Chasing realism like the Final Fantasy series will do other series' no favors.

My opinion is that I would like them to localize more JRPG's and when they do, also localize the damn titles. The words Ni No Kuni have no meaning here nor does Shin Megami Tensei.



This too. People tell me that the ugly ass anime cutscenes in Chrono Trigger (PS1 and DS) are what the characters are supposed to look like. Good thing I didn't know that in 1995.

They were on the box and I'm guessing in the instruction manual too.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Just how popular do you want them to be?

This year, we've gotten:

Ni no Kuni
Fire Emblem 3DS
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Etrian Odyssey 4
Digital release of Earthbound (finally!)

Just to name some of the bigger titles. And upcoming we have...

8/6 - Tales of Xillia
9/24 - Ys Celceta
10/1 - Etrian Odyssey Remake
10/12 - Pokemon X/Y
and Final Fantasy X HD

All told, this has been one of the better years for JRPGs in a while.

 

[Romars202129]

No more creepy googly eyes, please!

 

[Manmademan]

Yeah, stop making Pokemon, Kingdom Hearts, and Final Fantasy. Ya know, the three most popular JRPGS in the west.

Pokemon is a non entity on consoles (the demographics between consoles and handhelds are quite different) FF is FAR from a system seller and hasn't been since FFX, and Kingdom hearts hasn't seen a significant entry since 2006.

Pokemon may or may not sell on consoles, but FF and Kingdom hearts aren't anywhere near as relevant as say, mass effect or skyrim

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Yeah, stop making Pokemon, Kingdom Hearts, and Final Fantasy. Ya know, the three most popular JRPGS in the west.

Pokemon, KH, and FF(before it sucked) don't/didn't really pander to the whole moe fetish-fest. I don't think the stories have to be adult in the literal sense and contain explicit themes per se. They just have to not feel like an excuse to have a moe-fest or have shit writing like the FFXIII games. Even Xenoblade as fun as it is, in terms of writing and plot, felt like a derivative shounen anime, which was pretty disappointing in that regard.

Can't really fault people asking for better writing. (Again adult/mature writing and doesn't necessarily mean dark/gritty/violent/sexual/ect.)

I will say I'm sick of the fem-protagonist complaint though. I'll take flamboyant, over-the-top, effeminate characters over generic bald douche-bag #56748 any day.

 

[tirkaroKujo]

Make good games that are fun.
Release them more on Steam.
Get better budgets/get your shit together with HD development to make more console/PC titles.

Anyone who honestly, seriously thinks "anime" has anything to do with it are hilarious. (And sad, because the honchos running the show are probably going to listen to these dolts instead of just trying to make better games.)

 

[Valnen]

Pokemon may or may not sell on consoles, but FF and Kingdom hearts aren't anywhere near as relevant as say, mass effect or skyrim

Unfortunate, because Elder Scrolls games are garbage. And Mass Effect, while good, isn't really what I would call an RPG. Not even the first one.

 

[Pinko Marx]

You have to be when one of your favorite genres has a bad name for literally no reason.

Literally no reason? Literally?
How about this: instead of popping into the thread questioning people and asking them for their jrpg playing creditials, you offer up counter examples on why what we're saying is bullshit like Mr. Kotaku has. Then we can have a conversation.

 

[fader]

You have to be when one of your favorite genres has a bad name for literally no reason.

I don't consider JRPG's to have a bad name. It does so well in the East but the stuff that works well in the east does not interest the West.

 

[Romars202129]

Pokemon is a non entity on consoles (the demographics between consoles and handhelds are quite different) FF is FAR from a system seller and hasn't been since FFX, and Kingdom hearts hasn't seen a significant entry since 2006.

Pokemon may or may not sell on consoles, but FF and Kingdom hearts aren't anywhere near as relevant as say, mass effect or skyrim

FF is about as relevant as Mass effect, at least commercially. In fact, I'd say mass effect is headed for a downturn, so, less in the near future.

 

[encephalon]

So they should come up with better English names.

Are people avoiding Japanese names really going to buy into a series taking place in Japan? Should Onimusha have been given a localized name?

 

[Espada]

Just how popular do you want them to be?

This year, we've gotten:

Ni no Kuni
Fire Emblem 3DS
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Etrian Odyssey 4
Digital release of Earthbound (finally!)

Just to name some of the bigger titles. And upcoming we have...

8/6 - Tales of Xillia
9/24 - Ys Celceta
10/1 - Etrian Odyssey Remake
10/12 - Pokemon X/Y
and Final Fantasy X HD

All told, this has been one of the better years for JRPGs in a while.

Of those, only 4 of them are on a home console. Out of those 4, one is a rerelease on Virtual Console, and another is an HD remaster. So only 2 of those are brand new JRPGs for PS3/360. The rest are handheld titles.

If you want the genre to be more popular, they have to have a major presence on home consoles. That said, JRPG devs won't target them because Japanese gamers prefer handhelds. They're in a bind.

 

[Kai Dracon]

To a degree, I think the popularity of the JRPG in the west has stayed at what may be its natural level. When gaming was smaller, and the audience for console games had grown up mostly on Japanese produced content, the scope of JRPG popularity seemed larger in context.

Today, a numbered Final Fantasy game can still push millions in the west, even given FFXIII's quality. But the audience for everything not branded FF remains more niche. Of course there are also a lot of stereotypes associated with the "JRPG" tag. There does seem to have been an increased degree of pandering to fringe audiences by JRPG makers that mirrors the trends in Japanese animation and comics that many don't like - many fans of anime and manga, mind you. Not just "animu haters".

 

[Deleted member 752119]

If you haven't already, give Dark Souls a try. It's fun, especially if you're patient and learn not to take your deaths too seriously. Feel free to ask for help if you're confused, but try not to spoil yourself.

It's definitely not my cup of tea.

I hate hard games, and play more for story/exploring etc. than challenge/gameplay these days.

And I have zero patience for dying and doing things over and over.

 

[uberluigi]

Character designs for sure ruin the experience for me. Lolita and girly male heroes make it awkward to play the game. I know some anime has this style but games like Star Ocean take it too far, I'm not saying go dude bro but at least change the lolita designs.

 

[encephalon]

If Fire Emblem is considered a success, then anime tropes, terrible characters, and heavy pandering are no problem.

 

[cafemomo]

Call of Duty, is secretly a JRPG.

 

[zeopower6]

So they should come up with better English names.

I really don't get the anti-Japanese title sentiment some people have...

Do you really want Suikoden to be called Water Margin? Or things like Atelier to be called "Workshop" just because you don't really know what the words mean?

 

[Romars202129]

Character designs for sure ruin the experience for me. Lolita and girly male heroes make it awkward to play the game. I know some anime has this style but games like Star Ocean take it too far, I'm not saying go dude bro but at least change the lolita designs.

Here here, nothing creepier than oversexualized underage girls. Axing lollies would be a good start to bringing the genre back some creedence.

 

[Lulubop]

Lightning in a bottle.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

This another shit on anime thread? I think a lot of people don't have a very good grasp on the situation in general.

First of all, people seriously overestimate how well JRPGs did in the past. Pokemon and Final Fantasy were the big hitters, with virtually anything not falling under those two capping out in the hundred thousands, if that. Well, that's still true. Just instead of your Suikodens and Wild Arms acting as the "supplemental" JRPGs, you've got your Personas and Ni no Kunis.

Second, the "moe" stuff is overblown in MANY ways. Not just in games, but anime as well. That isn't all that's out there, but this isn't the thread for that. I think Jsreicher said it best already, so I don't think I need to delve further.

What I believe is the biggest cause comes from the stripping of features and the overall lack of games on consoles in general. Handheld JRPGs are fine because they still have all the features expected of them for the most part. That's tougher to do on consoles when the genre is inherently reminiscent of an epic in terms of scale. It's just not feasible with rising budgets, at least for a majority of the generation. This is why Ni no Kuni was received so well.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

Not a popular opinion however I still feel that the Final Fantasy brand still puts up strong numbers considering the genre and has a fair significance of mindshare. Even strictly relying on its hardcore base I'd say you're looking at least a near guaranteed 400-500k in sales.

Of course, that means little when comparing it to its larger WRPG counterparts but the industry currently favors the WRPG market and thus they have more visibility/mindshare.

 

[Espada]

I really don't get the anti-Japanese title sentiment some people have...

Do you really want Suikoden to be called Water Margin? Or things like Atelier to be called "Workshop" just because you don't really know what the words mean?

Yeah, it's a silly argument but I see what he's getting at. Instead of a literal translation or leaving it as the Japanese name, he's suggesting the game have a name created by (and for) westerners.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Are people avoiding Japanese names really going to buy into a series taking place in Japan? Should Onimusha have been given a localized name?

I don't think most people care where a JRPG takes place, however, titles that people can't pronounce because those words don't exist in our language may not sell as well.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Character designs for sure ruin the experience for me. Lolita and girly male heroes make it awkward to play the game. I know some anime has this style but games like Star Ocean take it too far, I'm not saying go dude bro but at least change the lolita designs.

I'm with you on the whole moe/lollita stuff. When that shit's in there as fan-service it's super creepy, uncomfortable and frankly disgusting. Child/childish characters are fine if they're done like Ni no Kuni, younger characters in Tales of Vesperia, etc.

But femmy or female characters I have no issues with.

 

[encephalon]

I don't think most people care where a JRPG takes place, however, titles that people can't pronounce because those words don't exist in our language may not sell as well.

This would make us more xenophobic than people claim Japan to be. If we can introduce Japanese words into our language, we can probably figure out a way to mispronounce Shin Megami Tensei.

 

[chemicals]

easiest (and most obvious) answer: Nothing. Western games are more popular now because they're made for westerners, like myself.

 

[CimBom]

imo alot of people get turned off the turn base aspect from alot of the jrpg's. this is the reason why kingdom hearts done it right in the west, it wasn't some boring turn based combat system, it was all real time, fast paced and worked well. simply put alot of people don't have the patience for turn based, and i fit in that category as well. of course there are the exceptions like the FF series, but i honestly would rather a real time combat system with as would most others in the west, and with FFXV adopting the kingdom hearts combat system it will do extremely well here in the west . people just do not like having to think strategically to attack, defend, when to use health etc because it does get tedious and boring having to contantly wait turns to attack one another. that said one of the few games which would be worse with real time is pokemon, pokemon nails turn based.

 

[fader]

is that what happens when you hold it in the sunlight!? :O

 

[Manmademan]

FF is about as relevant as Mass effect, at least commercially. In fact, I'd say mass effect is headed for a downturn, so, less in the near future.

in the west? nowhere close.

and if any series has "downturn" stamped on it, FF is it. mass effect 3's ending has nothing on the disappointment that was the entirety of FF13. critically, commercially...pick a metric.

FF as a franchise is in serious trouble. mass effect is not.

 

[dsp]

Well, I'm usually turned off by their stylization, so that's one thing. The characters are typically a whiny teenager with a crazy haircut, which doesn't appeal to me. It's equal to the west's bald space marine. It needs to go away. Even when they take a "mature" approach the characters still resemble that whiny teenager look. Hello, Final Fantasy 15.

Most of the time, turn-based combat is boring. FF13 was a big disappointment after FF12. FF12 wasn't with out its problems, like the main character being a whiny teenager, but at least by taking a more western approach they improved the combat.

A Final Fantasy rooted more in its earliest predecessors with characters that aren't annoying and a combat system like FF12 would be a damn good start. It won't sell like hot cakes, because it isn't Call of Duty or whatever is really popular right now, but it'd receive a warmer welcome.

I only mention Final Fantasy because it's about the only jrpg that I'll even give a chance, though I try to keep my eyes open. It's also the only jrpg that many of my "casual" friends will give a chance.

I don't think the stories have to be adult in the literal sense and contain explicit themes per se. They just have to not feel like an excuse to have a moe-fest or have shit writing like the FFXIII games.

This. God, THIS.

Anyone who honestly, seriously thinks "anime" has anything to do with it are hilarious.

If by anime you mean the style, then it has A LOT to do with why I don't play them. Gameplay can trump that, but I can't remember the last time it did for a jrpg, at least not for me.

 

[Aeana]

Mario anything sells in the west

A lot of Mario stuff doesn't sell nearly as well as Mario & Luigi 3 did.

At any rate, the popularity of Japanese RPGs in the west is overstated. They were never that popular, and the number of them that passed 300-400k can be counted on your fingers.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

This would make us more xenophobic than people claim Japan to be. If we can introduce Japanese words into our language, we can probably figure out a way to mispronounce Shin Megami Tensei.

Maybe they shouldn't localize the games at all? We should all just learn Japanese?

It just makes sense to me to give an English localization an English title. You obviously disagree.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Ehh? The only relevant JRPG series in the west that I can think of are Final Fantasy and Pokemon.

Pokemon is still a mega series, although it has obviously fallen quite a bit from its popularity high in the 90s.

Final Fantasy will also never be as popular again as it was in the 90s. Believe it or not, FF was actually a cool series then. FF7 was a huge blockbuster title with a massive advertising campaign. Even if Square-Enix attempted something similar now (and they won't), it wouldn't have the same impact. A JRPG now would never be able to achieve the same "cool" factor that FF7 did, the same way no anime in the west will ever be like DBZ again.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

At any rate, the popularity of Japanese RPGs in the west is overstated. They were never that popular, and the number of them that passed 300-400k can be counted on your fingers.

This needs to be in the OP or something. The revisionist history is starting to get a bit annoying.

Persona 4 selling a bit over 200k (or something like that?) in North America would be very commendable even when JRPGs were apparently "popular".

 

[Romars202129]

in the west? nowhere close.

and if any series has "downturn" stamped on it, FF is it. mass effect 3's ending has nothing on the disappointment that was the entirety of FF13. critically, commercially...pick a metric.

FF as a franchise is in serious trouble. mass effect is not.

I'm not arguing critically. I didn't even play that shit. But I'm putting a large sum of money on FFXV being bigger than ME4, whenever EA brings that out. A restructured developer? I've always considered that a touch of death. Plus, all the internet hate over ME3, seems like an uphill battle already.

 

[Valnen]

This another shit on anime thread?

Yup.

 

[Orayn]

First of all, people seriously overestimate how well JRPGs did in the past. Pokemon and Final Fantasy were the big hitters, with virtually anything not falling under those two capping out in the hundred thousands, if that. Well, that's still true. Just instead of your Suikodens and Wild Arms acting as the "supplemental" JRPGs, you've got your Personas and Ni no Kunis.

Yeah, I've got to go with this. The idea of a golden era when "JRPG" was an unquestionably mainstream genre is not really borne out by the sales. Pokemon and Final Fantasy had their time in the sun, one immediately after the other, but I think this idea is mainly rooted in nostalgia for certain series and certain console eras in general.

 

[OmahaG8]

You have to be when one of your favorite genres has a bad name for literally no reason.

Whoooooa. Virgin alert.

 

[Zukuu]

There's no denying the genre has fallen far from its throne when compared to the PS1/PS2 days. I think SE and Microsoft are mostly at fault.

Just like jump and runs are not mainstream anymore. It doesn't mean they are gone and forgotten.

Jrpgs don't need to do anything. The games itself just have to become better. That can be said just about any genre tho.