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[Yawnier]

So, I missed the show. Are only 4.5GB or 5.5GB available for games? And is this bad?

This is really bad. OUYA just won the console war in result of this.

May as well pack all of our bags and go home.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Their was rumors of either an upclock or swapping out the boards with the devkit boards which contain 12GB of RAM. Though none of those have clear leads and its best if you just ignore them, for now.

Heard about GPU upclock, but thought that had passed over.

 

[BlastProcessing]

*high five

We will blot out the sun with our tubs!

 

[Vashetti]

Yeah, I missed that. We may be hearing about a bump in Xbox One specs soon?

Zero chance.

 

[Orayn]

depends on compression. It could easily take 160meg per minute to record.

It's around 1GB for 15 minutes at YouTube quality, which is 8000bkps for 1080p video and 384kbps for stereo sound.

That is, assuming CBR recording. The video would wind up smaller than that with VBR.

 

[bootski]

lol @ all these "preorder cancelled" posts. yea cancel your preorder because your games will only run in about 10x the amount of RAM in current gen. cancel them, you fools.

 

[killer rin]

Interesting. I'll just wait and see how it plays out.

It wont, and this is coming from an Xbox Fan. At best it would be an upclock and even then I'm still skeptical of the rumors.

 

[Socky]

How does this differ than what Microsoft (or the consoles last gen) is doing? The post is a sugar coating of the same situation that everyone gave MS shit for; taking up a huge amount of space for non gaming functions, whether a portion is reserved for potential future proofing or not. Proelite already said that some of the space that's reserved for the Xbox is open space for future proofing; just like Sony is doing here. Both can (and most likely will) reduce the footprint in the future.

Baffling how this post is being congratulated when it's essentially PR spin.




Im curious if you could explain how this differs from MS' position where they can similarly reduce the size as time goes on? Or even upclock via a patch as you claim?

Who said it was any different for the Xbox? The One seems to have very specific OS goals, so perhaps there's less scope for them to reduce the OS overhead, while with it seems a greater focus on games, Sony might have more leeway to reduce later, but that's just guess work. Certainly there's no reason to think Microsoft couldn't reduce OS overhead significantly.

I see this as a Sony reaction to Microsofts position: if the Xbox only uses 5GB for games then there's no pressing need - especially with PS4s stronger GPU - for Sony to use more than that. Retaining 'spare' RAM for later use, whether that is for games, OS functionality, apps or whatever, makes sense, particularly if developers aren't demanding more right now (and third parties shouldn't need it to match multi-plats).

I don't see this as PR spin as you put it, it's a viable explanation for what at first glance seems an excessive reduction of available RAM, at this point in the life cycle. It might not be true, or completely accurate (I don't expect any upclocks to occur personally) but its a reasonable explanation for what Eurogamer are reporting.

 

[Chamber]

Their was rumors of either an upclock or swapping out the boards with the devkit boards which contain 12GB of RAM. Though none of those have clear leads and its best if you just ignore them, for now.

Xbox One rising from the ashes like a phoenix. Is it too late to preorder?

 

[RedAssedApe]

lol @ thread title

 

[Vestal]

It's around 1GB for 15 minutes at YouTube quality, which is 8000bkps for 1080p video and 384kbps for stereo sound.

Like I said depending on compression and quality.

 

[Mush]

I missed Salmon vs. Bear titles.

 

[Vlodril]

So is there a confirmation from Sony? Sorry but the thread flies so fast its impossible to tell.

 

[Wynnebeck]

My recommendation would be to wait for the dust to settle. But if there's meat to these rumors -- while I don't advise devolving into console warrior nonsense and hyperbole -- it's worth understanding that this does take a bit of the wind from the sales just in terms of what a juggernaut this system will be. This is particularly true for those of us that aren't exactly all that excited for the OS features to begin with.

That's the thing though. We have no idea how the amount of GDDR5 that devs will have access to is going to truly affect the games until we get past launch. We can argue about numbers all day but in the end GDDR5>DDR3 and having 5.5GB is insane enough. Why should people be upset about this when we have no idea how this will affect the overall look and functionality of the games? It's not as if the PS4/Xbone are open systems where we can go inside and allocate RAM for our own devices.

 

[TheLegendary]

Their was rumors of either an upclock or swapping out the boards with the devkit boards which contain 12GB of RAM. Though none of those have clear leads and its best if you just ignore them, for now.

12 GB would be almost useless imo.

The difference between the two now is definitely less significant. A little upclock wouldn't hurt, but at this point the difference between the two will most likely be less noticeable .

Especially if the rumored 2 cores devoted to OS rumor from IGN is true.

 

[prwxv3]

Zero chance.

There is a very large chance of hearing about one from B3D. It actually happening is very unlikely.

 

[mgcastro]

Let's not kid ourselves here, or be hypocrite, many people were eager to witness a Sony "miss-step" after all the mockery (justified or not) the other two consoles have suffered.

 

[Anpanman]

Just asked o_sharp, and he told me that Eurogamer might have some misunderstanding here.

http://bbs.a9vg.com/thread-3546518-1-1.html

1. The system OS will not use flexible memory.
2. Flexible memory is "heap"（Well, I don't know what's that, so probably DevGaf could help with this one.）
3. On DevCon, SCE said they will try to get more RAM for gaming from system OS. But it's quite hard, because PS4 should do multi-task like recording and live-streaming, etc.
4.According to his research for now, which he is not so confirm about it. So, probably, when you recording a 15 minutes video, the data is in ram. Only when Share is pressed, then data will flush into HDD. The game will need to pause for gpu suspension for throughput. live-streaming is in ram.

Wait...if anything wrong, will I get banned? X_X NooOooOoOooo

Google Stack vs. Heap and that will explain it.

 

[ironcreed]

It wont, and this is coming from an Xbox Fan. At best it would be an upclock, but even then I doubt it.

I would not think so, either. I figured it was just too late in the game.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

12 GB would be almost useless imo.

The difference between the two now is definitely less significant. A little upclock wouldn't hurt, but at this point the difference between the two will most likely be insignificant.

Especially if the rumored 2 cores devoted to OS rumor from IGN is true.

12GB would be nice for the whole consoles working as dev kits thing, but not much else I'd guess.

 

[Vashetti]

So is there a confirmation from Sony? Sorry but the thread flies so fast its impossible to tell.

Nope. And I doubt we'll get one to be honest.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

This thread is insane. Who thought all 8 gigs would be available for games? Concern trolling looks to be back in fashion.

I was under the impression that 7 Gigs would be available for games. 1 for the OS.

 

[ultron87]

I guess I dunno why the thread title has to be so flippant when it could just be something straightforward like "Rumor: PS4 OS reserves around 3.5 gb". I suppose the current one does match the insane sky is falling atmosphere in here.

 

[Can Crusher]

Then no amount of RAM will ever be enough.

Exactly. Which means more is better, end of story.

This whole "no need for more than 4.5" is just a couple of people breaking character. Not long ago going from 4 to 8 was a megaton, a game changer. Now it's meaningless.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

PS1 -> 2 MB RAM
PS2 -> 32 MB RAM
PS3 -> 512 MB of RAM
PS4 -> 8000 MB of RAM.

16x multiplier seems to work from gen to gen. I don't see the huge leap. It would be more interesting to see system reserves for OS purposes.

Playstation 3 -> Started with 120 MB (23%), finished with 50Mb? (10% - in 2010)
Playstation 4 -> Starts with 3.5 GB (38%)

So same increase in ram, but less percentage available.

Starts with 2.5GB because if any devs use the extra 1GB they not going to be able to take it back .

 

[R3TRODYCE]

A short glimpse at those filthy criminals over IGN

Lol what the hell.

 

[diffusionx]

I am pretty sure that the PS3 OS can take up more space if certain features are used. So it's not as cut and dry as "was 120mb now 50".

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

LOL.It is False.That's the beauty of the end of this story.

Oh, and the press republishing the same crap is pretty amusing.

Hoping this is true

 

[Kinyou]

lol @ all these "preorder cancelled" posts. yea cancel your preorder because your games will only run in about 10x the amount of RAM in current gen. cancel them, you fools.

How many have actually canceled? All I see is that one post getting quoted again and again.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I guess I dunno why the thread title has to be so flippant when it could just be something straightforward like "Rumor: PS4 OS reserves around 3.5 gb". I suppose the current one does match the insane sky is falling atmosphere in here.

You cleared up your own confusion.

 

[pompidu]

I guess I dunno why the thread title has to be so flippant when it could just be something straightforward like "Rumor: PS4 OS reserves around 3.5 gb". I suppose the current one does match the insane sky is falling atmosphere in here.

Were beyond that point at like 3 pages. Everything beyond 3 pages have been insanity.

 

[Orayn]

I was under the impression that 7 Gigs would be available for games. 1 for the OS.

Based on what? I'm not saying this is good news or not a big deal, but there's no evidence for the 7GB/1GB split that I know of.

 

[Finalizer]

Holy shit. People are actually cancelling pre-orders?

Are you telling me you don't reserve 5 pre-orders of every new console just so you can post pictures of order cancellations when megatons are dropped on websites and forums?

Step up yo game dog.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

That's the thing though. We have no idea how the amount of GDDR5 that devs will have access to is going to truly affect the games until we get past launch. We can argue about numbers all day but in the end GDDR5>DDR3 and having 5.5GB is insane enough. Why should people be upset about this when we have no idea how this will affect the overall look and functionality of the games? It's not as if the PS4/Xbone are open systems where we can go inside and allocate RAM for our own devices.

It may have no bearing on anything. But these numbers often get used as talking points even if they only have abstract meaning for some people. For those expecting a future-proof juggernaut -- even if they have no idea what any of these numbers mean -- this is undeniably a cutback if true. Particularly if 3.5 GB is set aside for the OS.

And all I'm getting at is that -- again, if true -- a "LOL, you guys thought all 8 GB would be usable for gaming" just seems silly.

 

[Freki]

LOL.It is False.That's the beauty of the end of this story.

Oh, and the press republishing the same crap is pretty amusing.

You sound pretty sure - is your "insider status" cleared with a mod? (no offense)

 

[Neuromancer]

So is there a confirmation from Sony? Sorry but the thread flies so fast its impossible to tell.

Their silence is deafening.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Er no. PS4 has 4.5-5.5Gb. Xbox One has 5Gb. Xbox One has less ram altogether for developers.

Fixed

 

[iamshadowlark]

Top AAA games for PC aren't designed or built around people having Titan cards. A big aspect of PC development is scalability.

Exactly. Which is why the chicken littering so ridiculous. A Titan can handle anything a PS4 can, two or three times over, with a similar amount of ram

 

[Gskyace]

Google Stack vs. Heap and that will explain it.

Cool. I'll try to understand that.

 

[mrklaw]

What apps do we expect to be resident in ram for switching between at any time? I think vita can have quite a lot of apps 'active' and instantly switchable

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Not really bothered, I'm sure both systems will offer some fantastic games in the future and that is all that matters. The RAM is still a decent leap over this gen.

 

[Kinyou]

Their silence is deafening.

Not even some tweet? Usually at this point we'd at least have one PR guy saying "Games can even use 12GB!!!!"

 

[cdwjustin]

I told myself I wasn't going to post in this thread because people are foaming at the mouth and not thinking.... but here I am, which makes me an idiot.


First off, I know all you guys want are hard numbers and I don't have them. But I do know the philosophies in place currently. If you would like to use your brain and think critically about things... keep reading. If you want to get into a 5>4.5 OMG IM CANCELLING MY PREORDER conversation - this thread won't help you, in either direction.


I was told by a couple of Devs in the lead up to E3 that the OS footprint was "bigger than expected" but not a single one of them complained about it. No one is in danger of running out of ram. As some people have mentioned in this thread - games like the The Last of Us are happening with 512mb of ram. Launch titles, of all things, are not going to be pushing the hardware in any sort of way... and that includes ram.

So why is the ram footprint bigger than expected? It's fairly simple - Sony is hedging their bets. They were absolutely caught with their pants down with their OS this gen. Not having the memory overhead to do things like Party Chat gave Microsoft a huge advantage when it came to online gaming, which is obviously a growing sector. So much like $399 as a target price was a reaction to $599 being a disaster... "big OS footprint" is a reaction to "small OS footprint" being a disaster.

But the thing that I'm hearing and I believe there was even a line dedicated to this in the eurogamer article is that these numbers aren't set in stone. The fact of the matter is that high end PC games use around 3gb of ram and use higher res textures (art tends to take up the largest chunks of ram) than the ps4/x1 do. The idea that launch games need 7gb of ram is absolutely ludicrous. 4gbs is fine. Anything more, at this point, is overkill. It won't be overkill forever... but it's overkill for now.

So Sony gets to sit on this chunk of ram, be in 1gb or 3gb - again, I don't know the numbers. I don't know if eurogamer is right (I do know at E3 that some thought more ram would be freed up when the final dev kits shipped... but I don't know anyone working with a final dev kit). But Sony is coming at this from a position of power. They don't need the ram currently so they get to take a wait and see approach before saying "ok, devs, you guys get this." The systems will launch and they will look at what people are doing with their own OS, they will see what features people are asking for, they will see if microsoft or Nintendo (or even steam) come out with some surprise feature that catches fire - and if it does they will have the memory there to be able to do it also. If it doesn't that chunk of ram gets freed up for developers.


This thread is looking at this entire thing like the endgame is the day it launches. That's day one, guys. This is a long term strategic move and, imo, a smart one. They are putting themselves in a position to be able to adapt... something they couldn't do with the ps3. I know as gamers all we want to hear is higher numbers. But find me one developer that thinks the ram available to them on either system isn't enough (and this goes for the x1 as well guys... all this 5gb hurr hurrr stuff is fanboyish nonsense that you can go through my post history and see I never took part in once).


I feel like this post is far to philosophical for this thread of LARGE NUMBER > SMALL NUMBER, but hopefully this info is useful to some of you. Sony have created a nimble system and this is part of that philosophy.

the way you put it is perfect makes 100% sense

 

[Majanew]

It's not like PS4 could use 7GB of RAM per frame at 176GB/s anyway.

If true, Sony seems to have given close to enough to run games at 30fps and access all RAM available per frame, while using what's not being used for other tasks.

 

[dankir]

This thread... jesus..... NEVER CHANGE NEOGAF.

 

[Odrion]

Someone grab Durante and have him explain to us the difference between 5gb of DDR3 and 5gb of GDDR5.

 

[Minigo]

with so many people developing for PS4, you'd think we'd know something concrete by now, but nope, just contradictions vague statements, and trolling.

 

[farisr]

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking

If a good amount of that is going towards the HD recording, then it better be at 1080p. So far the only example we've seen turned out to be a 720p facebook vid.

 

[prwxv3]

Someone grab Durante and have him explain to us the difference between 5gb of DDR3 and 5gb of GDDR5.

Oh god please. I am tired of the shit comparisons

 

[Troll]

Someone grab Durante and have him explain to us the difference between 5gb of DDR3 and 5gb of GDDR5.

Don't you dare forget the 32MB e SRAM for the XBOX One!