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[LiquidMetal14]

Sony hyped themselves as being the gamers' choice. They made a big deal about having 8GB of RAM. Now it's come out that they're guaranteeing developers less memory than their "all-in-one" competitor. Based on DF's article, they're earmarking 1-2GB of RAM to literally do nothing at the moment.

For me, this confirms that Sony's OS development is just as sloppy as last gen, perhaps even more so. Sony's made great strides in terms of efficient hardware design, but it seems like they've gone backwards when it comes to software. How exactly is this confidence inspiring? Especially when we've barely seen the OS at work? Info like this makes me doubt their ability to deliver on all the functionality they promised back in February.

As you noted, we've barely seen the OS at work and you derive this opinion? It's flat out wrong and shows how much hyperbole you're bringing with your statement.

Don't make a statement when you or no one here even knows how these next gen OS's will function. That's equally as ignorant as forming an entire rant on something which you don't quite fully comprehend.

 

[RetroStu]

After months of constant "teh shitbox is crap, 3gig of teh ram for the os lol!!!" style posts, its funny seeing the problem kind of dissapear in this thread now PS4 is in a similar situation.
This gif says it best -

 

[MMaRsu]

Sony hyped themselves as being the gamers' choice. They made a big deal about having 8GB of RAM. Now it's come out that they're guaranteeing developers less memory than their "all-in-one" competitor. Based on DF's article, they're earmarking 1-2GB of RAM to literally do nothing at the moment.

For me, this confirms that Sony's OS development is just as sloppy as last gen, perhaps even more so. Sony's made great strides in terms of efficient hardware design, but it seems like they've gone backwards when it comes to software. How exactly is this confidence inspiring? Especially when we've barely seen the OS at work? Info like this makes me doubt their ability to deliver on all the functionality they promised back in February.

I think info like this should tell you that they are dedicating resources to make sure all that functionality is not lost.


I'm just making assumptions though

 

[KOHIPEET]

It would not take remotely 3.5GB of ram to do all that. I am sorry but we should not let sony off the hook. The OS better be as functional as windows 7 if they are using 3.5GB of ram for it. I better be getting full programs not apps with that much space. I am just crushed to be honest. The only cutting edge/expensive thing about any of these machines was the 8GB of GDDR5 now that is gone. Now we have basically have the generation that has by far the smallest upgrade in hardware with a premium prices. The OS eating all the ram would explain why none of the games are mind blowing to us like we saw with games like Soul Calibur or other launch games of past generations.

Exactly. 7 GBs for games was their biggest ace compared to PCs but now it's gone. ( at least for a couple years)

I know multitasking can eat up memory, but my 6 year old ass notebook with 4 GBs of ddr3 a shitty 2 core processor can play music (Flac), a 720p movie, and browse the web while still havig 1 GB free. And it's running win7 for god's sake.

And anyway who the actual fuck wants to Browse the web while playing a game? That's what my notebook or my smartphone is for.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Shitty PR by Sony.

Although it was never confirmed, we were lead to believed that the RAM for the OS could be about 1GB. And the message boards ran with that for four months.

Here we are on this weekend finding out, possibly, well you know developers were always guaranteed 4.5Gb. So that leaves 3.5GB for the OS.

Why the fuck didnt you just say that in February?

Keep going. Your making yourself look even worst by jumping to conclusions that was never discussed. No one lead anything but gaming media. Sony didn't say anything about it period.

 

[Wind's Howling]

so ps4 has less usable ram than xbone now....
i dont know what to say or believe now.
i wanted a lean mean gaming machine, and sony had been delivering it ..until they hit this ram wall out of the blue.

come the fuck on cerny...i dont need 3gb wasted so i can snap an internet browser or update my facebook apps while i play mgsV.

im disgusted.

Do people truly not realize that even 4.5 GB GDDR5 stomps on the 5 GB GDDR3?

 

[Alebrije]

I do not see any problem if this rumor is confirmed , pretty sure after 2-3 years Sony will optimize its OS to a level that 6- 6.5 GB RAM will be avaliable to developers.

The same way this generation last years ended with better graphical games for the PS3 ( TLOU , UNCHARTED 3 , ETC ) will happen with the PS4 compared to XBONE but much faster , we won´t need to wait 6-7years to see it.

People than thinks they should get a PS4 as a PC replacement are wrong , a console will never replace or be nearby of PC power and open features, so they just need to keep in the PC "world".

 

[quest]

But it is first and foremost a games machine. All their policies, all their acquisition of first party studios, putting the very best specs they could afford with the very best architecture specifically asked for by developers with "hardware design by developer committee" starting in 2008. Games first, but still multimedia functions. Not multimedia functions first and also games. Reserving RAM for robust OS features does not change this at all.

I usually agree with you BigDug but please find me a robust O/S features that would eat up 3.5GB of ram. That is full fledged desktop level OS ram eating with many real programs open. If the O/S is using that much ram how much bandwidth is the OS stealing now? Is the OS stealing GPU power to now? To make use of 3.5GB of ram it is going to take other resources on top of it leaving less for games. Lets be honest these machines don't have a lot of power to give away as it is. To give back anything to Non-Gaming really is slap in the face. They should of used more beefy parts to make up for it.

 

[CambriaRising]

Shitty PR by Sony.

Although it was never confirmed, we were lead to believed that the RAM for the OS could be about 1GB. And the message boards ran with that for four months.

Here we are on this weekend finding out, possibly, well you know developers were always guaranteed 4.5Gb. So that leaves 3.5GB for the OS.

Why the fuck didnt you just say that in February?

Sony never alluded to a 1gb OS, and insiders have said the current OS is about 1.5gb right now. The only reason for any if this is to leave room for improvement. Presumably this console cycle will last 7 years, look at how far we have come from 2005 and take a step back. No one could have predicted how advanced multimedia has become.

It's a contingency, and if nothing come from it there is nothing lost because ram can be "released" to devs down the line. The entirety of the faux outrage here is really stupid.

 

[Vestal]

Couldn´t the PS4 just have something like a "Game Mode"?
I mean, some games that could access to... let´s say... full 8GB of RAM, but without the OS loading. Like the old consoles, put the disc in the tray and load. No OS, no sparks, no anything.

all consoles have had an OS. You need a layer which translates between the software and the hardware. Stuff like input, networking, memory access, graphics display, audio processing, file system access, achievement/ trophy management etc.

as we move from Gen to Gen the OS footprint will increase to add functionality, not just apps I am talking about complex APIs that work between the software and hardware

 

[Nightengale]

Sony hyped themselves as being the gamers' choice. They made a big deal about having 8GB of RAM. Now it's come out that they're guaranteeing developers less memory than their "all-in-one" competitor. Based on DF's article, they're earmarking 1-2GB of RAM to literally do nothing at the moment.

Does having less RAM for games somehow dispute the 'marketing' of it being a gamer's choice and having 8GB of RAM?

For me, this confirms that Sony's OS development is just as sloppy as last gen, perhaps even more so. Sony's made great strides in terms of efficient hardware design, but it seems like they've gone backwards when it comes to software. How exactly is this confidence inspiring? Especially when we've barely seen the OS at work? Info like this makes me doubt their ability to deliver on all the functionality they promised back in February.

Do you own a Vita? Design aesthetics aside, Sony's pretty darn solid at making an OS. Hell, Vita was the main reason for a lot of the initial disbelief of the heavy OS-RAM usage, because Vita pretty much does what a lot of what PS4 is doing with an extremely small footprint.

 

[thuway]

Sony hyped themselves as being the gamers' choice. They made a big deal about having 8GB of RAM. Now it's come out that they're guaranteeing developers less memory than their "all-in-one" competitor. Based on DF's article, they're earmarking 1-2GB of RAM to literally do nothing at the moment.

For me, this confirms that Sony's OS development is just as sloppy as last gen, perhaps even more so. Sony's made great strides in terms of efficient hardware design, but it seems like they've gone backwards when it comes to software. How exactly is this confidence inspiring? Especially when we've barely seen the OS at work? Info like this makes me doubt their ability to deliver on all the functionality they promised back in February.

Confidence? They are launching a unit with 8 GB of GDDR5 and are reserving memory for any unforseen circumstances. The reserved RAM will eventually go to developers as the OS shrinks. It happened with Vita, it happened with PS3, and it will happen to PS4. Developers are not complaining, but do you find yourself in a position where you need to be convinced that Sony is developing a games platform when they are using the more powerful GPU and RAM type?

I can say this with 100% confidence. You have zero idea how janky and broken operating systems are when they launch. The initial unveil of the Xbox One was completely staged when they showed off the OS because it was unfinished. My personal friends who are on this board that work in Windows Mobile have mentioned to me constantly how hard it is to launch a new OS and the challenges associated with it.

PS4 OS is not complete, and don't be surprised if it is a broken mess come launch. Give it 6 months, it will lose weight, it will perform better, etc.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Halp!

PS4 has less ram available then was previously thought (although never ever confirmed or promised)!

I guess we'll have to rely on better and faster and higher quality RAM, and a 50% faster GPU!

 

[Raymo]

Do people truly not realize that even 4.5 GB GDDR5 stomps on the 5 GB GDDR3?

No.

 

[iNvid02]

you know who's fault this, randy pitchford's.

hes single handedly destroyed half of GEN4 before its even kicked off

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

Couldn´t the PS4 just have something like a "Game Mode"?.

PS4 was supposed to be the "Game mode" console.

 

[Instigator]

As you noted, we've barely seen the OS at work and you derive this opinion? It's flat out wrong and shows how much hyperbole you're bringing with your statement.

Don't make a statement when you or no one here even knows how these next gen OS's will function. That's equally as ignorant as forming an entire rant on something which you don't quite fully comprehend.

3,5 gig of RAM to run one OS for interface, internet and games ? It's crap.

 

[RetroStu]

Back then we didn't think they'd have tablet/netbook cpus , or that ps4 would be behind a paywall, and we thought that the consoles would release in 2011 or 2012, and we didn't expect a 1.2 tf gpu in the xbox, we expected it in the wii U... and we were dissapointed in the wii u under that assumption (little did we know , heh).

The consoles are the usual 8-10 times jump in power, its just that they are 3 years late and thats why it stands out a bit. It doesn't change the fact that next gen games will still be considerably better looking and we will no doubt see a huge jump in quality when we hit the 2nd and 3rd wave of games.

 

[cyberheater]

5 GB GDDR5 versus 7 GB GDDR5 will not yield the difference that some of you are thinking.

If I were to tell you that developers are NOT concerned with the RAM situation and have bigger things to worry about (polygon count, asset creation, learning efficient new methods of coding, relearning x86) would that at all quell the hive mind? If I were to tell you that you are better off bitching about OTHER things (upclocking the GPU, complaining about the relatively low performance of the CPU) would that quell the hive mind?

If you believe the narrative that courting indie developers, giving out free devkits, talking to developers, and putting in 8 GB of GDDR5 (with 5 available to developers AT LAUNCH) is not a gaming machine than you and I are not seeing eye to eye.

Parrots love Robert Downy JR. and Iron Man, but Cyberz pls .

Okay mate. I'll take your word for it

 

[RoboPlato]

After months of constant "teh shitbox is crap, 3gig of teh ram for the os lol!!!" style posts, its funny seeing the problem kind of dissapear in this thread now PS4 is in a similar situation.
This gif says it best -

It's not disappearing. I'm just as disappointed about a 3GB OS reserve on PS4 as I was with XBO. I didn't think either company would waste nearly 40% of their RAM and a quarter of their already unimpressive CPUs on an OS. Both of them need to get that shit down. While it's may be true that devs may not be feeling it yet, they will be down the line.

Thuway's posts are helping to keep the disappointment from being massive but it's also just my perspective on things. I don't want to pay for a gaming console and have a lot of the power diverted away from games, with some of it being held back "just in case". That's what annoys me more than anything else, the RAM being held back for future updates. Just let the shrinking of the main OS open up space for more features later on.

 

[Xamdou]

This is big news, 3.5 gbs reserved just for the OS alone and only 4.5 gb for games? Sony dropped the ball on this one.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Sony never alluded to a 1gb OS, and insiders have said the current OS is about 1.5gb right now. The only reason for any if this is to leave room for improvement. Presumably this console cycle will last 7 years, look at how far we have come from 2005 and take a step back. No one could have predicted how advanced multimedia has become.

It's a contingency, and if nothing come from it there is nothing lost because ram can be "released" to devs down the line. The entirety of the faux outrage here is really stupid.

No kidding.

The issue is just as laughable when it came to Xbone having 5GB for games. It's more laughable here because some are saying it brings Xbone at parity. That's when you have to ignore those types of posts.

3,5 gig of RAM to run one OS for interface, internet and games ? It's crap.

I've noted this about 4 times now, do you think all 3-3.5GB are constantly at work and needed? They are provisioning a certain amount and playing it safe. Something which even devs have no issue with.

 

[alexandros]

I have been following this news with the apathy of a person who games exclusively on PC. The available amount of memory seems more than enough for games, so that in itself is not really a problem. People should not be worried, RAM won't be a problem for at least a few years.

There are two minor issues, one with Sony's marketing image and one with blind fanboyism. The fact that the PS4's other functions take up so much RAM tarnishes the console's image as the "gamer's machine" a bit. Not a big deal, but certainly an indication that both companies have their eye set at least partly on the casual market.

As for Sony's devoted fanbase, they should admit that they're employing double standards here. We all know that when the first details about XB1's OS came out, a lot of people decried Microsoft's machine as "bloated", the amount of RAM occupied by the OS as a sign that Microsoft doesn't care as much for the gamer. Now that we hear that the same is more or less true for the PS4, they fall back on a line of "meh, 4,5GB is more than enough anyway". I understand why they do it, but it is a bit funny to watch as a neutral observer.

 

[DSN2K]

still more then enough, also still better then the Xbox One setup whatever way you look at it.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

...........The only reason for any if this is to leave room for improvement. Presumably this console cycle will last 7 years, look at how far we have come from 2005 and take a step back. No one could have predicted how advanced multimedia has become.

It's a contingency, and if nothing come from it there is nothing lost because ram can be "released" to devs down the line. The entirety of the faux outrage here is really stupid.

my thoughts

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Flunky: <talking to the back of high back office chair> "We need more hits Cap'n!"

Leadbetter: <chair spins around, revealing a man in an adult diaper and an XBO t-shirt> "Get Major Nelson on the Skype...again."

Nelson: <shows up on the screen wearing a coonskin cap and a 4th Generation Doctor Who Scarf> "Make it 512MB instead of 1GB of flexible RAM...and say it's harder to develop for, MUAHAHAHA!" <puts pipe back in mouth>

Leadbetter: "As you wish, my lord."

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Do people truly not realize that even 4.5 GB GDDR5 stomps on the 5 GB GDDR3?

Tell us more.

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

I feel a little misguided. I never expected the PS4 would use the same amount of RAM as the Xbox One for the OS. That is just nuts! I wonder what Sony are going to do with the 3.5 GB.

But still buying the PS4 of course! I saw some GAF'rs canceling their pre-orders for this, how can they play the unmissable PS exclusives? On their PC's? LOL. ;-)

I need to get that Xbox One too, that's the only way to play the most exciting next-gen exclusive IMO. Killer Instinct makes me crazy.

I duck tape that mthrf*cking Kinect...

 

[cyberheater]

Eh. Sounds like a lot of projections and leaps of logic on the part of fans to me.

Well, that's what we do. But you can't deny the PR coming out of Sony has been pitched that way.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

All this update does is confirm that its a limitation of the current/old SDK.

That's about what I got out of it too.

 

[Vestal]

Exactly. 7 GBs for games was their biggest ace compared to PCs but now it's gone. ( at least for a couple years)

I know multitasking can eat up memory, but my 6 year old ass notebook with 4 GBs of ddr3 a shitty 2 core processor can play music (Flac), a 720p movie, and browse the web while still havig 1 GB free. And it's running win7 for god's sake.

And anyway who the actual fuck wants to Browse the web while playing a game? That's what my notebook or my smartphone is for.

you say running windows 7 like its a bad thing.

shitting on what the general public(not me I think 8 has a much better backend) considers the best OS on the market doesn't give your argument much credibility.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I wish Sony would clarify whether this is true, and if so tell us what the 2.5+ GB is being used for. As a layman interested in the tech, all I know is that Windows 8 runs well enough on 2GB of DDR3.

If Sony uses 1.5+ GB GDDR5 for it's gaming console OS, I expect it to be extremely snappy. I would really hope they aren't using much if any of that memory on some ridiculous gimmick like the 15 minute video recording.

Edit: Sony has said "We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for."

WHY? Is it that it is changing/may change in the future? Or they simply don't want to say? Either way they can do better than "no comment".

 

[NotLiquid]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory
Looks like Sony issued a statement.

 

[SSM25]

This does not makes sense, must be a current dev kit limitation as they cant go past 8 GB for now (development tools have to load somewhere).

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

so ps4 has less usable ram than xbone now....
i dont know what to say or believe now.
i wanted a lean mean gaming machine, and sony had been delivering it ..until they hit this ram wall out of the blue.

come the fuck on cerny...i dont need 3gb wasted so i can snap an internet browser or update my facebook apps while i play mgsV.

im disgusted.

That's it. I quit. I'm done with this thread. And the Internet for a little while.

When armchair devs suddenly believe they know more and have more valid opinions regarding game development and console power than actual devs, it's just too damn much.

Let's all forget the fact that the PS4's RAM is faster and still has the better GPU. Let's forget it's cheaper. Let's even forget that all of this is rumor from some clown on B3D who's been wrong about loads of other shit.

All that matters is righteous indignation. It was stupid when the conversation was about how much RAM is devoted to the Xbone's OS, and it's stupid now.

Just ugh.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

As I'm reading.. Having a bigger gaming OS makes a system less of a gaming machine. Whatever everyone else is on, I need to have because I must be bugging.

Microsoft has 3 OS systems, they know software. Sony has that plus .5, They don't know nothing.

Please pass me whatever is going around.

 

[NBtoaster]

All this update does is confirm that its a limitation of the current/old SDK. Not of the OS.

How?

 

[jordan0386]

Keep going. Your making yourself look even worst by jumping to conclusions that was never discussed. No one lead anything but gaming media. Sony didn't say anything about it period.

C'mon. What am I doing wrong. If you dont understand how it goes, you'll go with what the provider tells you. Sony said we got 8GB in at the last minute. We got you guys!

Its really only 4.5GB until what, 2015? Its always been 4.5GB and NDA's have prevented anyone from saying anything. The entire internet looks like a dickhead.

We were told closer to 8 when it never really was.

Edit: How do you go from Gamer's machine, no fluff. To, well we gotta allocate resources for non gaming functions to keep up with Xbox. If GAF can mock MS for PR double talk. Sony should face the same sting.

 

[Persona86]

After months of constant "teh shitbox is crap, 3gig of teh ram for the os lol!!!" style posts, its funny seeing the problem kind of dissapear in this thread now PS4 is in a similar situation.
This gif says it best -

GDDR5.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Isn't that less than Xbox? What a fucking joke.

 

[Zabka]

Good. I need all that extra OS ram to browse the internet, check twitter and respond to facebook messages on my TV while I'm playing games in a half-sized window. Sure it would be easier to just grab my phone or my ipad but I need that for second screen functions because why would I want to play games on my TV?

 

[Vestal]

Does having less RAM for games somehow dispute the 'marketing' of it being a gamer's choice and having 8GB of RAM?



Do you own a Vita? Design aesthetics aside, Sony's pretty darn solid at making an OS. Hell, Vita was the main reason for a lot of the initial disbelief of the heavy OS-RAM usage, because Vita pretty much does what a lot of what PS4 is doing with an extremely small footprint.

vita has something ps4 doesn't have. The OS stored in flash

 

[Forceatowulf]

Welp... PS4 was bound to have bad news at some point right? It was pretty ridiculous that it had that much non-stop momentum in the first place.

This really does suck. Sacrificing potential gaming performance for OS bullshit... ugh. These OS features better be so fucking good to justify this. But I think we've all been in the game long enough to know that it more than likely will just disappoint.... *sigh*

 

[RoboPlato]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory
Looks like Sony issued a statement.

Here's what they said:

We would like to clear up a misunderstanding regarding our "direct" and "flexible" memory systems. The article states that "flexible" memory is borrowed from the OS, and must be returned when requested - that's not actually the case.

The actual true distinction is that:

"Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation

"Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

5 GB GDDR5 versus 7 GB GDDR5 will not yield the difference that some of you are thinking.

If I were to tell you that developers are NOT concerned with the RAM situation and have bigger things to worry about (polygon count, asset creation, learning efficient new methods of coding, relearning x86) would that at all quell the hive mind? If I were to tell you that you are better off bitching about OTHER things (upclocking the GPU, complaining about the relatively low performance of the CPU) would that quell the hive mind?

If you believe the narrative that courting indie developers, giving out free devkits, talking to developers, and putting in 8 GB of GDDR5 (with 5 available to developers AT LAUNCH) is not a gaming machine than you and I are not seeing eye to eye.

Parrots love Robert Downy JR. and Iron Man, but Cyberz pls .

So basically developers have the same concerns that they've always had, regardless of platform. Good to know.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory
Looks like Sony issued a statement.

Update this OP because we finally got an answer.

Edit: So it's not officially 5GB available to devs. But we at least know some information on what it means.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Why does sony need that much reserved if ps4 isn't even a decent multimedia device?

 

[iNvid02]

so how much do you think sony got from microsofts money hat for parallel ram availability for games

sounds like something phil harrison brokered

 

[iamshadowlark]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory
Looks like Sony issued a statement.

Wow that wad unexpected.

 

[KOHIPEET]

you say running windows 7 like its a bad thing.

shitting on what the general public(not me I think 8 has a much better backend) considers the best OS on the market doesn't give your argument much credibility.

My bad. With telling that I use win7, I just wanted to say that not even a fully fledged OS under load, takes up as much ram. I know win7 is a well optimized OS, but it also has a shitload more functions too.