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[iceatcs]

goddamn dildo flashback

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Oh God the title :lol

 

[Takuya]

Bravo at whoever changed the thread title. LOL

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Look people get things wrong several members in fact confirmed that,things change.

We have a lot of legit people on gaf that's right most of the time

And even if they are not 100% right I'm not one to disregard the things they did get right over the things they didn't.

edit: Oh that's a great title edit.

 

[nib95]

This isn't true.

Their eSram solution should be blazingly fast. Depending on how it's used and where I can see games being rendered at a higher resolution (pretty sure a 1080p framebuffer can fit into that 32MB) or can be used as a quick and easy way make up for any fillrate heavy transparency issues. It's also much more flexible versus the 360 eDram solution. Actually designed similarly to WiiU's. Using it as a scratchpad for some notable hardware deficits.

I'm just more centered on the cost of it. It just seems like a very expensive solution.

None of what you posted changes the fact that the XO doesn't have a single hardware advantage over the PS4. The Esram is simply a solution to a problem, not an optimal design choice in itself. No DDR3, no Esram. GDDR5 is by far the better solution, problem is Microsoft needed 8GB, and at the time they needed it, 8GB GDDR5 was not available. Sony took a gamble, and it paid off.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'm waiting for the thread title to just become a bunch of spelt-out fart noises

like "pffffffpgfffggghhhhhttffpppffPS4RAMbollockspffftttfftfght"

 

[Wynnebeck]

Kagari joined in.

Kagari also.

• Assertion about Bruce, Thuway and other insiders pulling number out of their arse.
• Assertion that Bruce, Thuway and Kagari often confirm each other's claim because they are friends.

LOL I'm literally having a giggle. I know that this thread has hit Terminal Stupidity when we have accusations of insiders and a mod in cahoots of console war fanboyism.

 

[omonimo]

Dear Sir, I am talking specifically bandwidth used for the OS. Can you specifically tell me what the bandwidth usages are???

We know
1) eSRAM cannot be used for anything more than a framebuffer due to RAM size so no OS activities would use it.

2) PS4 has unified bandwidth and we know that a certain amount of it will be unavailable. PERIOD. The question is how much.

What you have extrapolate in your post it's insane. Anyway someone has replied to you.

 

[TheRealTalker]

it was only a matter of time... for the title

 

[cyberheater]

If a third of its available bandwidth was devoted to OS tasks then you are definitely going to have trouble hitting 1080P at 60fps. .

Of course the OS and 2 dedicated cpu cores will use some bandwidth to keep ticking over while a game is playing but it won't use anywhere near a 3rd of the available bandwidth.

 

[DieH@rd]

Dat title change.

We need to keep track of all the changes so far.

 

[GameSeeker]

That new Thread title!

GAF mods are the best!!!

 

[RyudBoy]

FFXV was exclusive up until Square found out that PS4 would have less RAM available to devs than XB1 offered.

 

[Lucent]

Yea, I agree. Honestly I do want Sony to be focused 100% on games and giving up so much RAM to non gaming tasks FEELS like a deviation from that even when at the end of tha day it doesn't really matter technically.

Just my point of view.

Yeah I agree with this. I want the PS4 to be a gaming machine. As long as they don't waste the RAM on features like the X1 is doing then I'm okay with it I guess.

And with the games developers were able to pull off on the PS3 with it's small amount of RAM, I'm really not that worried.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Dat title change.

We need to keep track of all the changes so far.

Sad thing? It's only Saturday evening!

 

[SgtCobra]

FFXV was exclusive up until Square found out that PS4 would have less RAM available to devs than XB1 offered.

Except it doesn't!!1


Damn dat title, it was a great ride y'all.


EDIT

Actually. While we're at it. Can anyone confirm if the the OS still requires 2 dedicated cpu cores or has this changed as well.

Uh oh F'UPDTON IV incoming?
I'd like to know this as well.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

I'm pretty sure its been confirmed by rockstar that GTA 5 will run a lot smoother than GTA 4.

What about RDR, not only is that game vast its also beautiful to boot, all while running on 512 mb of ram.

The game looks ugly and runs bad also.

 

[Vashetti]

Ahaha that new title.

I thought the thread was deleted for a moment until I spotted the new name

 

[cyberheater]

Actually. While we're at it. Can anyone confirm if the the OS still requires 2 dedicated cpu cores or has this changed as well.

 

[-Horizon-]

And just like that, the new thread title pulls me back in for another laugh.

 

[CrisKre]

It was not good enough last week when Xbox One only have 5 GB available. Microsoft is behind, making box for non-gamers, bloated OS and not forward thinking and box already obsolete by awesome 7GB of PS4 super duper RAM.

Now that PS4 might have just 4.5GB, of course that is plenty for next gen. Sony is just being forward thinking so they can match Xbox One features by allocating more RAM for OS. Though to be clear Sony never copy Xbox and everything they did is better (even though they follow MS on everything from cross game chat, UI, achievements, and on-line games behind pay wall. Of course, the pay for on-line is now OK, because Sony need money for R&D and make things better, Microsoft on the other hand is greedy as fuck and ruin gaming).

I have a lot of problem with Xbox One especially the lack of BC and their unclear message on DRM, but seriously do some of you guys actually read what you write.

Nail, meet head. Im not a fan of xbone, but SonyGaf is out of control.

 

[nib95]

On a side note, the insider chatter was that originally the PS4 had 1GB reserved for the OS. Back when it was aiming to have 4GB GDDR5 total for retail too mind.

So with the upgrade to 8GB, and the OS reserve moving to 2GB, we have an additional 3GB ram for games. or in other words, 100% more ram for devs to use with games compared to before the ram upgrade.

Pretty good bump if you ask me.

 

[Harpa]

Ah, I've been hanging around 'ere for all these years. When I worked with games I had fun spoilers to share. Nowadays I just love all that is GAF. As in this thread. As in this title.

Also, it makes me feel like I still work with games.

Also, I love new console generations. People turn into something quite less people-ish. And I giggle. Lots of giggle.

Oh, on topic: RAM whatever.

 

[TheLegendary]

Actually. While we're at it. Can anyone confirm if the the OS still requires 2 dedicated cpu cores or has this changed as well.

Good point. Everyone assumed that'd be another advantage. All recent rumors have said 2

 

[Loudninja]

Nail, meet head. Im not a fan of xbone, but SonyGaf is out of control.

Yeah so out of control haha.

Come on man its the same with any other fans.

 

[Celegus]

Best thread title ever made?

Yes.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Really? Really?

Maybe if we've had that thread of emails we might have known where they come from!

 

[GeoramA]

Great job mods. Another fine day for game journalism...

Done with Eurogamer/DF after this. Unfollowed on twitter and everything.

 

[TheD]

I'd say the problem stems from a basic misunderstanding of tech in general.

Even when PS4 was 4gigs with 3 dedicated to gaming you weren't talking a huge insurmountable difference between the two platforms. Sony's choice of a much faster memory solution was always going to benefit them to a degree. Assets coming in faster. Devs might have had to be a little more creative than the One's (dump assets into main mem and use the eSram to make up the speed difference), but they were never at a disadvantage.

The GPU was always more capable, and they had a faster memory solution. Also turns out less costly mem solution than Ones as well.

No, having 3GB for games compared to a console with 5GB for games is insurmountable.
A PS4 with only 3GB for games would run faster than the xbone with 5GB, but would have much smaller levels and lower quality art assets.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

This actually makes sense as to why the games ran worse on PS4 now. So the question becomes how does this effect PS4s bandwidth as the same RAM is being used for its framebuffer? If a third of its available bandwidth was devoted to OS tasks then you are definitely going to have trouble hitting 1080P at 60fps. The xbox one shouldn't be affected due to using the eSRAM as a dedicated framebuffer. So while games wont look as "pretty" on the xBONE they should run faster at higher resolutions... The GPU in PS4 could actually technically become bandwidth starved.

Do people really just write without thinking?

 

[prwxv3]

On a side note, the insider chatter was that originally the PS4 had 1GB reserved for the OS. Back when it was aiming to have 4GB GDDR5 total for retail too mind.

So with the upgrade to 8GB, and the OS reserve moving to 2GB, we have an additional 3GB ram for games. or in other words, 100% more ram for devs to use with games compared to before the ram upgrade.

Pretty good bump if you ask me.

Bu bu but devs were not given all 4 gigs so Sony was being disingenuous when they said they increased the ram because of devs.

 

[LordEssdot]

@ the title change

 

[glenn8]

re-preorder uncanceled!

 

[CrisKre]

Yeah so out of control haha.

Come on man its the same with any other fans.

Lol, we all go through fases, but it seems to me, at this point, some are going through menopause or something. Its ridiculous.

 

[DieH@rd]

Sad thing? It's only Saturday evening!

It seems to me like you have quoted wrong post. No worries, this thread moves fast.

 

[MichaelMikado]

What on earth.

The OS isn't using a third of the bandwidth, just a third of the ram. When a game is being played the OS will be using hardly any ram bandwidth, but it will sit there in its 2GB so it can be switched to instantly, along with any apps Sony wants to run. When in the background the OS will use a little CPU but hopefully that is not too much. When in the foreground the game will be suspended so the OS can use all the CPU/GPU if it wants.

No it can't, they cant use 100% of the bandwidth 100% of the time especially with background cross chat, download, etc. There will HAVE TO BE A MAX BANDWIDTH CAP or youre going to get fps drop everytime you get a notification. The only question is how much.

 

[Dennis]

Its funny seeing all the junior alt accounts that get activated by these threads.

You can just imagine the scene at astroturfing headquarters:

"All hands on deck, all hands on deck, Code Red, Code Red!"

 

[Thunder Monkey]

None of what you posted changes the fact that the XO doesn't have a single hardware advantage over the PS4. The Esram is simply a solution to a problem, not an optimal design choice in itself. No DDR3, no Esram. GDDR5 is by far the better solution, problem is Microsoft needed 8GB, and at the time they needed it, 8GB GDDR5 was not available. Sony took a gamble, and it paid off.

Read my posts on the last two pages.

I'm not exactly that big of a fan of MS mem solution. But to act like it won't have perks over the PS4 design is just as faulty as acting like that eSram solution is at parity with the PS4's mem design.

It's there to make up a difference. Depending on utilization it could have advantages over a strict UMA mem design. But Sony's UMA design will always be the preferred. Especially when you're talking about a consistent fast speed.

Sorry I couldn't go in depth, but I need to go to the grocery store. You all have fun now!

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

If you cant give me a quote can I at least get a page number so I know what Im looking for? I don't think any new information would change the fact that total bandwidth used for gaming purposes would still be affected. Further that wouldn't mean the eSRAM in the xBONE would be used for anything other than a framebuffer.

It's on the FIRST PAGE, damn. One of the page links even says "First". It's not that hard. In fact, it's nothing at all.

This whole debacle's been for nothing.

 

[MichaelMikado]

Of course the OS and 2 dedicated cpu cores will use some bandwidth to keep ticking over while a game is playing but it won't use anywhere near a 3rd of the available bandwidth.

Yes but will all thought that about the RAM usage as well. Because its also system bandwidth they would technically need to reserve bandwidth for things such as cross chat, background downloads, and Vita remote play which technically you could be able to do all three simultaneously while playing a game.

 

[nib95]

No it can't, they cant use 100% of the bandwidth 100% of the time especially with background cross chat, download, etc. There will HAVE TO BE A MAX BANDWIDTH CAP or youre going to get fps drop everytime you get a notification. The only question is how much.

If you think a backend state OS is going to use 1/3rd of the bandwidth, I have some stuff to sell you.

 

[prwxv3]

This actually makes sense as to why the games ran worse on PS4 now. So the question becomes how does this effect PS4s bandwidth as the same RAM is being used for its framebuffer? If a third of its available bandwidth was devoted to OS tasks then you are definitely going to have trouble hitting 1080P at 60fps. The xbox one shouldn't be affected due to using the eSRAM as a dedicated framebuffer. So while games wont look as "pretty" on the xBONE they should run faster at higher resolutions... The GPU in PS4 could actually technically become bandwidth starved.

The problem I see is that modern PC cards like Nvidia Titan use 6GB VRAM alone.. PS4 and XBone use 5~ GB for ALL RAM including system. Obviously the argument of a streamline gaming OS is invalid as Win 7 can use OS RAM footprint of 1GB. Technically you could theoretically use a 16GB system RAM and 2 6GB cards for a total of 12GB VRAM and 15GB system RAM today... It would be unreasonably expensive but possible from off the shelf parts today..

I really don't know Im just speculating.

This sounds like something specialguy/rangers would say

 

[OG Loc]

This is like "Carnival of Stupid: The Mini-Series."

 

[JABEE]

Good point. Everyone assumed that'd be another advantage. All recent rumors have said 2

Where is that rumor from?

 

[Stoof]

Can't wait for the DF tweet saying how Sony corrected their RAM amount.

 

[CCS]

I'd just like to thank everybody involved in this thread for a superb evening's entertainment. Also, love the new thread title!!

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

Nail, meet head. Im not a fan of xbone, but SonyGaf is out of control.

Oh bullshit, most people stayed away from this "5 gb is enough" damage control.

Stop generalizing for the shake of a flame war.

 

[Spongebob]

Just had a chance to read this entire thread....

Wow. All I have to say.

Also, 6GB for games (atm) is pretty solid. I wonder if that number can still grow in the future.

 

[Osiris]

No it can't, they cant use 100% of the bandwidth 100% of the time especially with background cross chat, download, etc. There will HAVE TO BE A MAX BANDWIDTH CAP or youre going to get fps drop everytime you get a notification. The only question is how much.

The bandwidth overhead for the kind of background features you're talking about will amount to less than 0.1%. You really are reaching.

 

[Dennis]

6 GB of GDDR5 strictly for games is MASSIVE.

Next gen will have no excuse for massive levels and complex open world environments.