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[Bony Manifesto]

The product itself is the problem, not the lack of games.

Nah, if history has shown us anything it's that all it takes is one or two massive new game concepts from Nintendo, and the console they're on will ascend into the stratosphere. Unfortunately, you can't really count on that sort of creativity from Nintendo, especially when they're in panic mode like this and doubling down on the usual array of tried-and-tested sequels.

 

[PaulLFC]

If I've done the maths right, this works out at approximately 110 consoles sold per day in the entirety of Europe and Australia. One hundred and ten. If that doesn't cause alarm bells to go off at Nintendo then nothing will.

 

[Scoot2005]

I'm... Gonna... Go get a beer. Fuck my life.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Wii U momentum will be dead until the fall.

That's the big problem Nintendo face.

Come the holiday period when sales could pick up, the Xbox One and PS4 arrive.

 

[kmfdmpig]

How far they have fallen in just a few years. Remember when the Wii and DS were both utterly dominating and they were printing money. Now they've fallen to this. They're in the Ouya/Nvidia Shield area of the charts with these numbers.

 

[KennyLinder]

Nintendo is so incredibly stupid for not getting Mario Kart out this Christmas. Ugh.

Yeah its unbelievable. At the start of the year when they announced Mario and Mario Kart, it sounded like both were coming towards the end of the year (I am fairly certain they even said that, but perhaps not). Mario Kart is now.. April?

Shops won't have space for PS3, 360, PS4, X1. 3DS will get pushed back a bit, and Wii U will get tiny shelf space, it's just not worth shops investing in more. Pods will vanish as PS4/X1 ones arrive.

Nintendo have fucked up in all ways possible with this system, and it shows in how many they're selling. NOBODY CARES.

 

[Y2Kev]

I wonder if Nintendo should have tried something like oculus rift. I don't know if it has the same mainstream appeal as Wii did but its pretty obvious their tablet is a pale imitation of already popular market trends...they need to trailblaze. I wonder if they could have made OR mainstream.

 

[Bulbasaur]

If they had some secret game up their sleeves that fully utilized the Gamepad to the point everybody who is aware of videogames had to play it then I could see them returning to glory.

Obviously that ain't happening. We get Mario fucking 3D world instead. I'm a die hard fan boy but even I see the writing on the wall for this console.

 

[LordGouda]

I'm... Gonna... Go get a beer. Fuck my life.

Let me join in.

 

[Manmademan]

I kind of disagree here.

The Wii caught fire because it offered the mass market a brand new way to play with the motion control.

If Nintendo was able to include a VR headset like Oculus Rift with their console and be the first to do it to the mass market, it could really be another Wii-situation. Hardcore gamers are always going to stick with the more powerful console and those purchases will always be there. Getting the mass market is what these companies really need to focus on.

That said, I don't think they'll do it and I think they're MUCH more likely to go with the console/handheld hybrid.

The Wii did incredible amounts of damage to the brand, and they'd be fools to try that again.

The Wii sold tons of units to people who have no interest in actually playing games. People who hate gaming controllers and complex inputs. "it's not a game controller, it's more like a tv remote" and "no need to push a button, just swing it!"

Selling these people a virtual reality helmet is simply not going to happen. it's the exact opposite of the wii target market, but the problems are the same.

Core gamers saw motion controls for what they were and avoided nintendo like the plague. They have LESS gamers now interested in their platform than they did during the gamecube era. Core gamers are the ones who consistently buy software and stick around for the long haul. Nintendo needs more of THESE, and less consumers who buy it for the gimmick, play it once, and let it collect dust under the bed.

The Oculus rift is a different case (though I'm not really fond of that thing either) because it's positioned at hardcore PC gamers. It's ideal for immersive FPS games (which nintendo does not make) and appeals to people with no problem spending $400 on a videocard. This is not nintendo's audience, and nintendo trying to cater to them is lunacy.

 

[Plinko]

The Wii did incredible amounts of damage to the brand, and they'd be fools to try that again.

The Wii sold tons of units to people who have no interest in actually playing games. People who hate gaming controllers and complex inputs. "it's not a game controller, it's more like a tv remote" and "no need to push a button, just swing it!"

Selling these people a virtual reality helmet is simply not going to happen. it's the exact opposite of the wii target market, but the problems are the same.

Core gamers saw motion controls for what they were and avoided nintendo like the plague. They have LESS gamers now interested in their platform than they did during the gamecube era. Core gamers are the ones who consistently buy software and stick around for the long haul. Nintendo needs more of THESE, and less consumers who buy it for the gimmick, play it once, and let it collect dust under the bed.

We just had a thread yesterday that absolutely destroyed this argument.

 

[Scoot2005]

Let me join in.

Here you go. It'll getcha drunk.

 

[prag16]

Expected. :/ It's sad, but there's no reason to lose your shit over it since we've known it would be like this for months.

Pretty much this. Few expected otherwise, so the mass celebration from the negative crowd isn't really warranted at this point..

 

[Raist]

If I've done the maths right, this works out at approximately 110 consoles sold per day in the entirety of Europe and Australia. One hundred and ten. If that doesn't cause alarm bells to go off at Nintendo then nothing will.

They're shipped figures, not sold.
For instance in June only, 110 WiiU were sold per day in France only. Not that it's a good number, mind.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I wonder if Nintendo should have tried something like oculus rift. I don't know if it has the same mainstream appeal as Wii did but its pretty obvious their tablet is a pale imitation of already popular market trends...they need to trailblaze. I wonder if they could have made OR mainstream.

Possibly.

However they might have had to delay the Wii U until 2015 for an OR type controller to be implemented. It's only just finding its legs.

 

[Rolf NB]

I'll say it again. That's shipped from Nintendo. Not sold to consumers. Those systems will sit in stock rooms waiting for the WiiU's that are sitting on shelves to sell.

While that's true, it doesn't make the whole thing more positive.

Low shipments mean retail is unwilling to absorb more stock, which means a lot of the previously shipped stock is still unsold and retail seeks to chew through that first before ordering more.

The amount of unsold stock needs to be pretty high. Microsoft managed to "stuff" an already well buffered channel with 3M superfluous units in 2006, and still (barely) shipped more Xbox 360s in the following quarter than Nintendo's 160k.

Retail seems completely unwilling to play that game with Nintendo.

 

[Petrae]

How far they have fallen in just a few years. Remember when the Wii and DS were both utterly dominating and they were printing money.

While the WiiU disaster speaks for itself, I think it could be worse for Nintendo. Here in the US, the 3DS has topped the hardware charts in consecutive months, and will probably make it a third for July. It's not a DS level of domination, but given that the 3DS is holding its own versus the rapid growth of the mobile sector... Nintendo's a little better off than being completely in the dumps.

 

[pieatorium]

That's the big problem Nintendo face.

Come the holiday period when sales could pick up, the Xbox One and PS4 arrive.

I think priice cuts on ps3/360 selling cheaply to family markets is likely a bigger competition

 

[Y2Kev]

Possibly.

However they might have had to delay the Wii U until 2015 for an OR type controller to be implemented. It's only just finding its legs.

Maybe they could have abandoned the wii a little later than they actually did then. Lol.

 

[RibbedHero]

I'm starting to think that the GTX Titan probably sold more than the WiiU in Europe.

 

[Manmademan]

We just had a thread yesterday that absolutely destroyed this argument.

somehow I doubt this- otherwise...where are all those gamers who bought the wii?

They aren't buying wii software. They aren't buying the WiiU. They aren't buying PS360s. (PS360 sales roughly track PS2+Xbox, plus growth). They aren't buying anything at all.
The vast majority of those who bought 100+ million wiis have simply vanished from the market entirely- thus, people who are "not interested in gaming."

and as for nintendo "designing the wii controller to look like a TV remote" to appeal to people who do not like controllers, that's not speculation, that's fact, and nintendo themselves stated it more than once.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Maybe they could have abandoned the wii a little later than they actually did then. Lol.

lol

The whole thing seems like a complete shambles.

 

[Kosma]

I wonder if Nintendo should have tried something like oculus rift. I don't know if it has the same mainstream appeal as Wii did but its pretty obvious their tablet is a pale imitation of already popular market trends...they need to trailblaze. I wonder if they could have made OR mainstream.

I'd buy that.

That would be the next step in gaming.

Also this would let them evolve on motion controls they already had.

I remember in the Mega Drive days Sega was supposed to release a VR unit too, but that never panned out. I think a lot of people would be interested in this kind of tech now. Between Google Glass and Occulus Rift this seems to be the thing on the horizon.

 

[lvlzero]

Here you go. It'll getcha drunk.

may as well join you

 

[Plinko]

somehow I doubt this- otherwise...where are all those gamers who bought the wii?

They aren't buying wii software. They aren't buying the WiiU. They aren't buying PS360s. (PS360 sales roughly track PS2+Xbox, plus growth). They aren't buying anything at all.
The vast majority of those who bought 100+ million wiis have simply vanished from the market entirely- thus, people who are "not interested in gaming."

and as for nintendo "designing the wii controller to look like a TV remote" to appeal to people who do not like controllers, that's not speculation, that's fact, and nintendo themselves stated it more than once.

*sigh* Seriously?

It was just yesterday we had the thread. Also, check out the attach rate for the Wii. It wasn't that far behind 360/PS3. I guarantee it's much better than you're thinking. Again, that argument was completely destroyed.

 

[Petrae]

I think priice cuts on ps3/360 selling cheaply to family markets is likely a bigger competition

Agreed. WiiU will be fighting for relevancy against multiple opponents.

First up are the new Power Twins in XBO and PS4, which will be the newest things accompanied by a metric ton of hype and marketing in front of them. Next, as you stated, are the last-gen hardware packages that may see price drops for Q4. Combine those drops with GTA V (which will be one of the two best-selling games of the year) and the rest of a pretty decent lineup for the quarter and it's an attractive sale to families and lower-income consumers looking for a good entertainment deal this season. Also, the 3DS is realistic competition for the WiiU; it's cheaper, it has more games, and it's portable. Finally, you've got the continuing transition by some to the mobile sector, as casual consumers can get a "good enough" gaming experience on their phones or tablets powered by popular games like Angry Birds.

 

[lvlzero]

The vast majority of those who bought 100+ million wiis have simply vanished from the market entirely- thus, people who are "not interested in gaming."

have you seen mobile/tablet sales lately? theres your answer

 

[spekkeh]

Nintendo is so incredibly stupid for not getting Mario Kart out this Christmas. Ugh.

Why? Who still wants Mario Kart? Everybody already has it.

 

[gigantor21]

This is a comparison of shipment numbers for the first three quarters:

Wii U Shipments:
Q3 2013 - 3.06 million LTD
Q4 2013 - 3.45 million LTD
Q1 2014 (June 2013) - 3.61 million LTD

PS3 Shipments:
Q3 2007 - 1.7 million LTD
Q4 2007 - 3.5 million LTD
Q1 2008 (June 2007) - 4.2 million LTD

PSV Shipments:
Q3 2012
Q4 2012
Q1 2013 (June 2012) - 2.2 million LTD

GameCube Shipments:
Q2 2002 - 0.51 million LTD (release in Japan only)
Q3 2002
Q4 2002 (March 2002) - 3.80 million LTD

3DS Shipments:
Q4 2011 - 3.61 million LTD
Q1 2012 - 4.32 million LTD
Q2 2012 (September 2011) - 6.68 million LTD

Dreamcast Shipments:
Q3 1998
Q4 1998 - 0.9 million LTD (release in Japan only)
Q1 1999 - >1.0 million LTD (release in Japan only)


Mind you, Wii U had a decent launch, but its numbers are ridiculously frontloaded. Shipments are dead post-launch except to re-supply the tiny amount of stock that actually sold-through.




Yes I am a girl. :-(

But thanks for the compliment. You're so sweet!

Sell-through comparison is a completely different ballgame. Generally speaking, the Dreamcast, PS3, 3DS, and pretty much every other major system released by the Big 3 in the past decade is outperforming the Wii U post-launch numbers.

Wii U momentum will be dead until the fall.

I was waiting for your post, Aqua. Thanks.

These numbers man...these numbers. It's around a 1/4th of the PS3's worst hardware and software numbers ever (700k and 4.7 million, respectively), and still trailing the Gamecube despite having a global launch when GC didn't. And only 10k in all of Europe AND Austrailia?

Yeah, I've been willing to give the WiiU the benefit of the doubt because it's heavy hitters aren't out yet. But the PS3 never got anywhere NEAR this bad despite being routinely and rightfully mocked for it's insane price point and being a software wasteland early on. It still sold far more despite being out afterg the 360 and alongside the Wii, and being twice as expensive.

With those kinds of shipment numbers, retailers are probably still selling launch consoles in some places. There's zero interest in the damn thing, despite Nintendo having the field entirely to itself for a year after the longest console generation in history. I...can't see any big turn around in front of it anymore.

 

[Manmademan]

*sigh* Seriously?

It was just yesterday we had the thread. Also, check out the attach rate for the Wii. It wasn't that far behind 360/PS3. I guarantee it's much better than you're thinking. Again, that argument was completely destroyed.

don't say "but but we had a thread." refute my argument. TELL me how it's "destroyed." Show me where all those gamers went who bought the Wii, but "love gaming."

The Wii sold a ton of software, but in a VERY short time frame and could not sustain it. What was the wii's attach rate in 2010? 2011? 2012? I'll save you the trouble, nintendo hasn't sold a game over 5 million since mario galaxy2 launched in 2010. since then- nothing.

I guarantee you it was nowhere close to PS360 software sales, even when you consider both of those platforms have robust digital download channels that are not tracked by NPD, and nintendo does not.

have you seen mobile/tablet sales lately? theres your answer

Here I disagree, because the mobile/tablet market and the home console market are two completely different things. PS360 is still selling quite a bit of software. Those platforms are in decline, but this is normal for consoles as old as they are. The Wii's base literally vanished overnight and has been that way for years- while PS360 were at their peak. It's gone, period.

But hey! you may have a point. The home tablet market isn't really interested in gaming either- those are people who are looking for the most convenient way to waste 15 minutes with candy crush or songpop, not "play games" that take 10-20 hours to complete. Maybe they're the wii's audience after all.

 

[Russell]

Miserable. This is what happens when you don't release any games.

I highly doubt that's the reason. My guess is that most people are waiting for the next generation systems to arrive in 3 months.

 

[Petrae]

Nintendo has said many times that it does not care what the competition is doing. The stupidest business practice there is.

In this case, it's arguably been Nintendo's undoing as it got caught pants-down and unprepared for the launch of its new platform. It's a noble idea to not get caught up in what the competition does, but when you know you're eventually going to be doing some of the same things, it's dangerous to go in completely blind and unprepared.

 

[GetemMa]

If this doesn't inspire some sort of action from Iwata, nothing will.

-Ditch the gamepad, make it an optional peripheral that only supports off TV play
-Pack in with the WiiU pro controller.
-Sell at $199
-Use Marketing 101

Hurry up Nintendo, your home console business is about to be swallowed up.

Really though, the WiiU push has just been naive and absymally planned by Nintendo brass. An exhibition of incompetence like no other. E3 2016 "Here is our new product, coming this winter"

 

[Hystzen]

For those saying it needs price cuts to sell , here in UK we had major price cuts and well look at numbers it helped fuck all.

no idea it was this bad geez no wonder stores are now dropping it to clear shelf space for PS4 and Xbone

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think priice cuts on ps3/360 selling cheaply to family markets is likely a bigger competition

It's sort of the elephant in the room that nobody speaks about.

The PS4 and XB1 will take away the limelight sure - but they aren't really vying for the same consumers as the Wii U, nor the 360 and PS3. However, the latter three appear to be competing for the same consumers. Blablabla next gen something something. It doesn't matter if it's nominally a new generation, the PS3 and 360 are competitive value propositions for the same consumer base.

Expecting GamesCom price cuts, and that will not bode well for the Wii U.

 

[U2NUMB]

Hummm

I would certainly buy one if they dropped the price only because at this point I wonder how long games will be made for it. But I was really hoping for some kind of price drop at E3.

 

[Regulus Tera]

This is worse than the Game Cube, right?

 

[Bundy]

They should join forces with another big japanese company (like SONY) for their console games
Nintendo's own handheld + Nintendo-exclusive games on it
+
Nintendo console games exclusive for SONY's PlayStation.

Problem solved ^_^

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

This is a comparison of shipment numbers for the first three quarters:

*numbers*


Mind you, Wii U had a decent launch, but its numbers are ridiculously frontloaded. Shipments are dead post-launch except to re-supply the tiny amount of stock that actually sold-through.

Yes I am a girl. :-(

But thanks for the compliment. You're so sweet!

Sell-through comparison is a completely different ballgame. Generally speaking, the Dreamcast, PS3, 3DS, and pretty much every other major system released by the Big 3 in the past decade are outperforming the Wii U post-launch numbers.

Wii U momentum will be dead until the fall.

Cold, hard numbers as always
Yeah, this thing definitely has a shot at selling worse than the gamecube.

 

[gofreak]

I wonder if Nintendo should have tried something like oculus rift. I don't know if it has the same mainstream appeal as Wii did but its pretty obvious their tablet is a pale imitation of already popular market trends...they need to trailblaze. I wonder if they could have made OR mainstream.

Was thinking the same thing earlier. Was why I suggested a HMD accessory as part of a potential recovery plan.

They need some novelty to develop big core-appeal titles around. Win back the old-time Nintendo fans who remember a time when Nintendo home console games were industry leading on various fronts.

 

[Midnight Moon]

Miserable. This is what happens when you don't release any games.

Thats gonna start changing hopefully

 

[GetemMa]

Miserable. This is what happens when you don't release any games.

I highly doubt that's the reason. My guess is that most people are waiting for the next generation systems to arrive in 3 months.

No, its the games.

90% of the people who buy consoles at launch are core gamer fanboys most of whom probably were never interested in Nintendo products. These people are not Nintendo's audience. IF they would have launched with games ready like Mario Kart 8, I think things would look a whole lot better, not great, but definitely better. They might have met that very modest target of 5 million units shipped through March.

Nah this is just gross mismanagement on all fronts by company that wants to be smaller than it should be. Nintendo is about 2500 employees total. That covers all departments and they are expected to produce several games for 2 pieces of hardware. It isn't possible. Nintendo is probably realizing that about a year too late.

 

[Shiggy]

don't say "but but we had a thread." refute my argument. TELL me how it's "destroyed." Show me where all those gamers went who bought the Wii, but "love gaming."

The Wii sold a ton of software, but in a VERY short time frame and could not sustain it. What was the wii's attach rate in 2010? 2011? 2012? I'll save you the trouble, nintendo hasn't sold a game over 5 million since mario galaxy launched in 2010. since then- nothing.

Wii Party and DKCR came out a few months after SMG2. But it does not really go against the point your making. The Wii was dead after 2010.

 

[shinra-bansho]

They might have met that very modest target of 5 million units shipped through March.

It was 5.5M and it wasn't a modest target. :/

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Holy shit dead.

 

[SneakySneaks]

Miserable. This is what happens when you don't release any games.

In addition to shit advertising, a bad name, an uninteresting gimmick, two behemoth consoles on the horizon, no blu-ray capability, a player base outgrowing Nintendo games and horrible launch price the cards were pretty stacked against the Wiiu from the get go.

 

[TheSeks]

WiiU is a narrowly focused game console that seems to be aimed at Nintendo fans--a niche market. Kind of like a Ferrari. So if you look at it in that light, it's a successful console. Ferrari's are an enthusiast vehicle. Wii U is a Nintendo enthusiast console.

That's a pretty bad analogy because:

1) Ferrari gives you "power for price" while "looking sexy"/supercars!
2) Because of the above people want it.

Compare to the WiiU which:

1) Has no competent online system
2) Has no third party support which leads to
3) No games. Outside of Nintendo game releases which makes the calender tumbleweeds.gif

Oh... yes, let's not forget:

4) No "power for price."

If the "Wii U is a Ferrari" what does that make the PS4/720? Bugatti Veyron and Veyron Supersports?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

“The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD,” “Wii Party U,” “Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze,” “Super Mario 3D World,” and “Wii Fit U.”

They need cool games, like Perfect Dark, Metroid and F-Zero. Come up with some new shit like that. Not that one of those alone would do it, it needs to have a good lineup like that to inspire confidence in the platform. Not having 3rd parties is one thing, but for that to be their 1st party lineup... it's incompetent.

 

[Kerub]

Well deserved. Nintendo has been abusing the Wii brand and this is the result. I feel no pity.

 

[ascii42]

somehow I doubt this- otherwise...where are all those gamers who bought the wii?

They aren't buying wii software. They aren't buying the WiiU. They aren't buying PS360s. (PS360 sales roughly track PS2+Xbox, plus growth). They aren't buying anything at all.
The vast majority of those who bought 100+ million wiis have simply vanished from the market entirely- thus, people who are "not interested in gaming."

and as for nintendo "designing the wii controller to look like a TV remote" to appeal to people who do not like controllers, that's not speculation, that's fact, and nintendo themselves stated it more than once.

They did buy Wii software. They just...stopped eventually. What does buying other systems have to do with whether or not they bought Wii games?