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[flyinpiranha]

I honestly can't justify the price of XBL anymore. I let it run out months ago. The ONE hope that I had was that multiplayer was going to be free on PS4 since I don't play online often but would enjoy it here and there, sadly that's not the case. But at least I don't feel that if I don't buy PS+ that my PS4 is gimped in some way.

Live has definitely decreased in value for me to the point it's not worth it. I was hoping MS was going to add services to make this worthwhile outside of TV and it doesn't seem to be the case.

Live is Dead.

 

[Skeff]

As long as people buy the xbox one, Microsoft might as well keep everything behind the gold paywall to get more $ from subscriptions, If your against this, dont buy the xbox one or XBLG.

The success of XBLG on 360 is the reason this continues and the reason it has seeped it's way onto the PS4.

Although IMO PS+ is certainly worth it due to the free games but i'm disappointed there's a pay wall for online games now, but we only have those 30m people who paid $60 a year for it on xbox 360 which raises $1.8Bn a year for Microsoft. $1.8Bn a year is alot to lose, especially on a ten year cycle to make it $18Bn.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

That is smaller stuff in comparison, in my opinion (well, maybe not online multiplayer, but at least you could still play games without having to pay for Xbox Live Gold). Microsoft is pushing the TV functions on Xbox One as a big thing, kinda like a basic thing on the same level as playing games, at least that is how i see it. I'd expect those things to work without having to pay anything extra for it. This is me taking concideration that the TV functions on Xbox One wont work at all without Xbox Live Gold. If its only some parts of the TV stuff that requires Xbox Live Gold, then its not surprising i think.

My point was that they didn't even really fully give you video games without paying extra for it. Its a video game console and whole portions of the video games were barred off unless you payed for more money. It shouldn't be that surprising that they're doing the same thing now that they're trying to make the Xbox an all in one entertainment box. No one complained about them locking basic video game features behind a paywall, so now that they're making an all in one box they dont think anyone will mind putting those features behind a paywall as well.

 

[Raymo]

Hehe, i actually wouldnt be surprised if Microsoft starts to offer Netflix and such for Xbox Live Silver as well, as a way to compete stronger with PS4. But i think it depends a lot on how they see PS+ is being recieved on PS4.

There shouldn't even be a silver membership. Just make it Xbox Live and then if you want to use cloud storage or multiplayer then charge. Anything else that is done peer to peer(voice chat, party chat, skype), using a third party's servers, or processed locally on the console shouldn't have any subscription attached to it.

 

[Impeccable]

Over delivering value imo.

 

[derfybzh]

So for video recording...

XO:
5 minutes @ 720p / 30 FPS
Behind pay wall

PS4:
15 minutes @ 1080p / 30 FPS
No pay wall

Do I have that right?

Such a loss of bandwith, I don't see the point of wasting bandwith to upload a 15 mn 1080p/30 FPS video

For the record I don't see the point of doing it in 720 p and 5 minutes too.

It will take ages

Cool feature if you have good upload speed ... Most of us don't have

 

[Rebel Leader]

EDIT: thought this was a new thread =p

 

[juicyfruitas]

Meh, as long as they keep the 2 free games a month deal going I'll keep my sub active.

I is a sucker for a freebie no matter how craptastic the offering (eg - Defense Grid)

 

[SerOnionKnight]

An entertainment device in 2013 that makes you pay a subscription to enjoy the "privilege" of using Internet Explorer. And apps that are free on literally every other device that can run them.

What a fucking joke.

So true man. A couple weeks back finally powered on my 360 to stream some media to it and thought, what the hell might as well try IE. And sure it enough it said I needed a gold sub. MS never fails to disappoint so you just knew it was going to be the same on the xbone.

Can't believe that people actually want to buy this thing with all the negativity surrounding it. More power to you. Can't ever remember a console that seemed this DOA before.

 

[Quadraphonic]

The Facebook video Sony uploaded during the reveal is 720p. If it's 1080p, they haven't uploaded a real one yet.

 

[Soul Destroyer]

PS+ is clearly the better value. No denying it. Still want that HDMI pass-through.

That's another thing I don't quite grasp though, it confuses me.

Microsoft say the console is an "All in one, centre of the living space entertainment device"

Yet to actually watch TV, you need another box with yet another subscription! It makes no sense.

Why did they not build in their own TV ecosystem? It would be an amazing piece of kit if they had.

To me the whole TV thing is redundant due to that.

 

[FranXico]

Such a loss of bandwith, I don't see the point of wasting bandwith to upload a 15 mn 1080p/30 FPS video

For the record I don't see the point of doing it in 720 p and 5 minutes too.

It will take ages

Cool feature if you have good upload speed ... Most of us don't have

Again, these video captures can simply be saved on the hard drive. We may even want to wait before uploading anything. (Example: If you are trying to record a segmented speed run).

 

[Raymo]

The Facebook video Sony uploaded during the reveal is 720p. If it's 1080p, they haven't uploaded a real one yet.

Does facebook host uploaded 1080p videos? Say...from an iPhone? Or does it downsize them to 720p?

 

[RedNumberFive]

So true man. A couple weeks back finally powered on my 360 to stream some media to it and thought, what the hell might as well try IE. And sure it enough it said I needed a gold sub. MS never fails to disappoint so you just knew it was going to be the same on the xbone.

Can't believe that people actually want to buy this thing with all the negativity surrounding it. More power to you. Can't ever remember a console that seemed this DOA before.

I do love how streaming media from your PC, one of the few reasons my 360 remains plugged in, is an unpinnable activity.

 

[Game Guru]

If businesses always operated like that, they'd remove any good will that they have with customers, and eventually when competitors start offering a better place you'll slowly start losing mindshare and userbase.

Sony is currently offering a deal with PS4 that is hard to pass up. And even though Microsoft currently holds the dominate hand with their online infrastructure, it is soon becoming impossible to defend in the face of PS+ insane values. Therefore, individuals like me, bishoptl and Mesoian are not getting XBL Gold anymore.

These customers drop off slowly, but eventually they add up, and then when it adds up enough, you're left holding your dick wondering what happened.

Indeed, as you can see with Microsoft before the 180. So long as Sony and Microsoft are fighting for the same market of people, we as consumers will win thanks to their competition. I never touched Xbox Live Gold throughout my ownership of my Xbox 360 and I never owned a PS3 either... However, I may consider PS+ just because it gives out free games as it ends up being akin to a rental service since it does that.

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm sorry, but this has to be asked.


What isn't behind the MS greedwall?

i think it's high time that someone lists stuff that is not and is behind a paywall for both Gold and PS+

lots of stuff is spouted out here unverified, questions and comments.

clarity would be nice

 

[Pop]

Meh, as long as they keep the 2 free games a month deal going I'll keep my sub active.

I is a sucker for a freebie no matter how craptastic the offering (eg - Defense Grid)

That 2 free games a month deal is only for the 360 not X1. If I recall correctly.

 

[Oppo]

Did Sony ever confirm the capture quality? Where did you read 1080p if that is the case?

I am going by the Facebook upload they demo'd for ShadowFall. And just an educated guess.

Such a loss of bandwith, I don't see the point of wasting bandwith to upload a 15 mn 1080p/30 FPS video

Nah, it'll be a low bitrate relatively speaking. Or maybe it will have quality settings for bitrate.

 

[Amir0x]

Indeed, as you can see with Microsoft before the 180. So long as Sony and Microsoft are fighting for the same market of people, we as consumers will win thanks to their competition. I never touched Xbox Live Gold throughout my ownership of my Xbox 360 and I never owned a PS3 either... However, I may consider PS+ just because it gives out free games as it ends up being akin to a rental service since it does that.

Frankly if you would have told me one year ago this would have been the case I would have laughed. I have done literally 99.9% of all my multiplayer gaming on Xbox 360. Shit, 95% of ALL my meaningful online gaming activity last gen was done on the platform. But like you say, I'm a consumer and I am informed enough to know when enough is enough.

 

[i-Lo]

What about netflix?

 

[ElTorro]

i think it's high time that someone lists stuff that is not and is behind a paywall for both Gold and PS+

Playing games you bought.

At least most of them. Maybe.

 

[nampad]

Even the TV guide? Hahahahaha.
Nice to have an essential feature for watching TV behind a service paywall.

Already hated that Sony sold the PlayTV patch with the better guide as DLC, but this is way worse.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Meh, as long as they keep the 2 free games a month deal going I'll keep my sub active.

I is a sucker for a freebie no matter how craptastic the offering (eg - Defense Grid)

Not to be a downer but

** Games with Gold free games offer available 6/10/13-12/31/13 for qualifying paid Gold members only. Xbox 360 games (selected by Xbox) available for free download from Marketplace only during specified half-month window; available games may vary by country. Some titles may only be available for download by account holders 18+. Kinect and/or hard drive required for some games. See xbox.com/live

From legal jargon at the bottom of the OP's Xbox blog link

Doubt it will be continued for 360, doubt it will ever exist on X1

 

[Eusis]

As long as people buy the xbox one, Microsoft might as well keep everything behind the gold paywall to get more $ from subscriptions, If your against this, dont buy the xbox one or XBLG.

The success of XBLG on 360 is the reason this continues and the reason it has seeped it's way onto the PS4.

This is part of why the "then don't buy it" defense is limited (not that it isn't an important first step), we want others to do the same damn thing or the rest of us are screwed. If, say, freemium models never successfully took off outside of maybe TF2 hats then we wouldn't see companies pursuing it so much and even doing things like reviving fan favorite franchises as freemium titles (BoFVI anyone?) At least that might go so overboard someone may actively legislate against it, I don't really see the same happening with this.

Of course, some of just just want to see Microsoft getting the metaphorical crap beat out of them for their hubris, and may even not expect this stuff to have a good chance of really catching on, not to the same extent: Sony acted as competition ideally should and looked for relatively minor conveniences and enticing goods to justify paying into a subscription, and introduced MP as a feature when it's very possible live streaming could ratchet bandwidth up enough to justify it. Microsoft loses mindshare for streaming and expects to reverse that by throwing more multimedia features on their next console but still demand a paywall and likely not offering anything that really justifies a subscription, and by all rights should get throttled for it.

 

[RedNumberFive]

i think it's high time that someone lists stuff that is not and is behind a paywall for both Gold and PS+

lots of stuff is spouted out here unverified, questions and comments.

clarity would be nice

I'm not sure you're going to find clarity from the land of "clouds and transistors".

 

[Quadraphonic]

Does facebook host uploaded 1080p videos? Say...from an iPhone? Or does it downsize them to 720p?

Video upload sites like that are notorious for scaling down 1080p to 720p and 60fps to 30fps. So if it supports it, the platforms to share it on at that high of quality are few.

What about netflix?

Hahaha. As repeated in here before, Netflix on the Xbox 360 is the only platform it exists on IN THE WORLD where you have to pay monthly fees to two different companies to use it.

 

[RumblePuff]

So for Forza to use the cloud to enhance the game AI I'm assuming you need gold as well. So much of this just doesn't need to be behind a paywall.

 

[test_account]

My point was that they didn't even really fully give you video games without paying extra for it. Its a video game console and whole portions of the video games were barred off unless you payed for more money. It shouldn't be that surprising that they're doing the same thing now that they're trying to make the Xbox an all in one entertainment box. No one complained about them locking basic video game features behind a paywall, so now that they're making an all in one box they dont think anyone will mind putting those features behind a paywall as well.

I understand. I just think its surprising if they lock out the whole TV function if you dont have Xbox Live Gold. I wouldnt be surprised if it was just parts of it (kinda like online multiplayer when its about games), but the whole function is what surprises me. If that is the case that is, that the whole TV function wont work at all without Xbox Live Gold.

There shouldn't even be a silver membership. Just make it Xbox Live and then if you want to use cloud storage or multiplayer then charge. Anything else that is done peer to peer(voice chat, party chat, skype), using a third party's servers, or processed locally on the console shouldn't have any subscription attached to it.

I agree. I understand that they put many functions behind paywall to make it look more appealing though, but some of the things that are behind the paywall surprises me, especially things like Netflix and a web browser.

 

[Tobor]

Xbox live Silver offers the following features:

1. Ability to log into Xbox Live and sign up for Xbox live Gold.
2. ...

 

[MercuryLS]

Agree and disagree. It's true that most of us probably will have Gold, but many of us likely won't always have it. For example, many, including me, have gone several months without Gold when there's just been nothing too exciting on the horizon or multiplatform games were just as good on the PS3. No point paying an extra £30-£40 when there's no need. Get it when you need it and when there are good enough games that require it, but if you run out of Gold during a drought, no point renewing. And THAT is when the pay wall matters.

Add to that there are actually tens of millions who game without Gold.

Exactly, there were times when I let my XBLG sub lapse cause I wasn't into MP gaming at the time. Other than playing some SP games, the damn thing was useless. I couldn't use it for Netflix which really pissed me off. I'm not happy that MP is behind PS+ with PS4, but at least they keep a lot of stuff off the paywall so if I ever let it lapse for a while I can still use a ton of the functionality in the box for free. Sony has focused on adding actual value for their service (like the IGC) which actually makes me want to pay for it even if I'm not MP gaming much, MS is punishing users if they don't pay for XBLG by hiding what should be free functionality behind a sub. It's one of the big reasons I gave up on XBox 360 and will not buy an XBox One. I'm speaking with my wallet.

 

[ToyBroker]

I love how everyone is citing the current-gen Gold subscriber number as if it'll have ANY correlation to the next-gen. People subscribe to gold because that was their main console. They were hand-cuffed to the Xbox ecosystem--Microsoft did a very good job of tying you down in that regard; whether it be with points, gamerscore, gamertag, content, or friendslist. They threw down that money for Gold because there weren't any other alternatives. Most saw the Gold cost as a cheaper (even though it isn't) alternative to buying a PS3--or even buying an AppleTV or something.

With this upcoming gen, there's 0 chance people are going to put up with that bullshit--especially with the PS4 being cheaper, more powerful, and offering a ton more services compared to the "All in One" box...for free.

 

[Uno Venova]

For the love of god will they at least stop delaying demos for a week if you don't pony money up?

 

[Piggus]

So true man. A couple weeks back finally powered on my 360 to stream some media to it and thought, what the hell might as well try IE. And sure it enough it said I needed a gold sub. MS never fails to disappoint so you just knew it was going to be the same on the xbone.

Can't believe that people actually want to buy this thing with all the negativity surrounding it. More power to you. Can't ever remember a console that seemed this DOA before.

Lol same thing happened to me. Was gonna test the web browser and it let me download it fine. Then it made me login to my live account which took forever because I hadn't logged in for a while and had to verify my account settings. And then finally when I got through all that I was able to start the browser only to be greeted by a "lol give us money to use this" page. So fucking stupid.

 

[N2NOther]

People who buy both consoles are pretty much fucked. Have fun paying 120 bucks a month.

Where does that number come in? It's like $5 a month for each which would be $10 a month.

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm not sure you're going to find clarity from the land of "clouds and transistors".

I feel sorry for average consumers.
Us we are on on these sites, we get the info eventually but the average consumer OMG

 

[Eusis]

For the love of god will they at least stop delaying demos for a week if you don't pony money up?

Maybe they'll just make demos a live-exclusive feature at this point. Though I guess Sony does similar with their one hour trials, but those are full games with a time limit so I can actually kind of understand that, they can get pretty massive bandwidth wise.

 

[MercuryLS]

Unless you play games constantly longer than the controllers battery life or unplug the PS4 from the wall, you should never need to actually charge while playing with the DualShock4. The PS4 can charge while "off", so as long as you plug in the DS4 while not using it or the console it will always be charged, the X1 should do this too of course but the controller needs the p&c kit.

All you have to do is remember to plug in the controller ever few days, the big issue with the PS3 was that the controller wouldn't charge when the system was in standby. That's no longer the case. Also Sony is releasing a charging dock for controllers too, so that makes it even easier. Who honestly wants to fiddle with batteries?

 

[i-Lo]

Hahaha. As repeated in here before, Netflix on the Xbox 360 is the only platform it exists on IN THE WORLD where you have to pay monthly fees to two different companies to use it.

Yea but this is xbone we're talking about.

If it is going to be behind pay wall I assume it'll be a much superior service than the pedestrian free version with monthly subscription.

I guess it's a good thing that it's behind a pay wall. Perhaps there will be proper kinect integration.

 

[MikeE21286]

hahahah they restricted the TV Guide?

What in the world.

Also NFL is throw away so I don't really care....at least not yet

Spoiler

I have 7 years of Xbox Live Gold already piled up so why do I care anyways

 

[medze]

So for Forza to use the cloud to enhance the game AI I'm assuming you need gold as well. So much of this just doesn't need to be behind a paywall.

Yeah, I think this has been confirmed that Gold is required for the Drivatars. It was definitely stated that online was required for this so I would assume online = Gold as every other online feature requires Gold.

Microsoft making the decision easier every day.

And it's disappointing that multiplayer is behind a pay-wall on both systems yet that is somewhat understandable because it requires servers and server maintenance, costs that need to be recouped. However, features like Netflix, web browsing, and live streaming cost absolutely nothing to Microsoft yet they still want to charge for this features. What a joke this system is.

In before another 180 at Gamescom.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Yea but this is xbone we're talking about.

If it is going to be behind pay wall I assume it'll be a much superior service than the pedestrian free version with monthly subscription.

I guess it's a good thing that it's behind a pay wall. Perhaps there will be proper kinect integration.

I find that unlikely as the Netflix app built into my fucking Bravia is more functional than the 360's app.

 

[Naked Lunch]

The skies are falling.
But seriously, who has an Xbox without Gold? Why even bother with the system?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Not to be a downer but



From legal jargon at the bottom of the OP's Xbox blog link

Doubt it will be continued for 360, doubt it will ever exist on X1

They'll keep doing it on X1, they're stopping on 360 because they don't want you to have any reason to not upgrade.

 

[i-Lo]

I find that unlikely as the Netflix app built into my fucking Bravia is more functional than the 360's app.

Pretty sure it's better. People are paying for it.

 

[mrklaw]

Well, on Xbox 360 there wasnt really a 2nd basic function like this, in my opinion. To me, the TV functions on Xbox One seems to be a basic function equivalent to playing games, so i'm surprised that Microsoft put the TV function behind Xbox Live Gold.

Putting my MS spin hat on..

Those consumers that are buying mainly for the media functions may buy fewer games, therefore we make less money from them from license fees. So by requiring Xbox live gold for all media functions, we can ensure an even field of butt fuckery for all.

I'm surrounded by armchair analysts. Fuck me running

Don't put ideas in MS' head

 

[medze]

The skies are falling.
But seriously, who has an Xbox without Gold? Why even bother with the system?

To answer your question, most people who have a 360 don't have Gold.

 

[N2NOther]

Funny if you buy titanfall you cant even play it without gold.

Everyone knew this.

 

[SwiftDeath]

They'll keep doing it on X1, they're stopping on 360 because they don't want you to have any reason to not upgrade.

Any source on that?

Would be entirely logical to try and better match parity with PS+ (obviously still wouldn't be close)

Haven't heard any confirmation that it would be on X1 though

 

[nateeasy]

good

 

[ToyBroker]

The skies are falling.
But seriously, who has an Xbox without Gold? Why even bother with the system?

We've already gone over this 90000 times in this thread. Over 60% of all 360 owners don't have Gold.