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[Hoo-doo]

People can't seriously be surprised with all this. Why would they stop the paywall shit now. They've already been shown by consumers that they are willing to accept services behind a paywall. Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone; but there is a certain demographic that will pay for xbox live without a second thought. As long as these people exist, MS will continue to exploit it.

They were able to do that shit this generation because there was no real alternative for certain aspects. The PS3 was crippled by it's hardware and the Wii, well, was the Wii.

This won't be true for this generation. You can bet your ass that both Sony and Microsoft are betting big on multimedia features and a focus on social interaction and ease of use.
If Sony will be offering the same shit for free that XBL offers for 60$ a year, then things will eventually change.

That is, if gamers are actually capable of putting their money where their mouth is.

 

[Eusis]

The lack of XBL subscribers should really also give publishers pause from pushing multiplayer quite so much. They risk alienating half of their addressable market if they require online for their games.

It's actually probably why we HAVEN'T been seeing any $60 MP only games on consoles, and why games like BF3 have an SP campaign. On PC it's a stupid pointless extra, on X360 it's a (shitty) apology for buying a game when you didn't have a Gold subscription, though similar applies to offline PS3s.

Come to think of it, I wonder if that's also part of why some games get forced MP? That it's thrown in there for buyers to justify their Live subscription? Though I don't know how many REALLY feel that way at this point, I can see it on the OG Xbox but nowadays we have tentpole games people flock to for that.

Yet

updates and DLC aren't Gold exclusive features yet....

Not yet...

In reference to the 360 it holds more than well enough, they won't be pulling this sort of shit late into a generation.

And while I'm guessing this might not apply to Microsoft's current thought processes, LOGICALLY you keep those free to access because you gain additional revenue that way: people will buy your system to at least play SP games and maybe decide to jump on a Gold subscription to get more out of some of the biggest games, and DLC similarly is buying bits of extra content so why put a barrier to them giving you money?

Of course those were probably joke replies but whatever.

That is, if gamers are actually capable of putting their money where their mouth is.

I suspect, somewhat ironically, it'll be more the expanded audience that Microsoft wants with XB1 that will help there. There'll be serious gamers that absolutely have to have Titanfall and ignore PC outright (or the fact it's a timed exclusive and as such may show up on PS4 anyway before too long), or have to have Forza, Halo, and/or Dead Rising 3 and so buy it. Meanwhile those who aren't as invested in games but want a media box that their family or room/housemates will play, ARE being mindful they want something more hardcore, but see the subscriptions and higher price tag for XB1 and write it off in favor of PS4. And hell, if there's one thing Sony holds it's the stronger association with electronics anyway, so just as a movie player Sony'd rank higher than Microsoft for most people I'd assume.

 

[Nafai1123]

My point is that it seems a lot of people are peicemealing it out when its all one package.

If paying $60(or $35 on sale) for multiplayer is a pill your willing to swallow, why complain about the other stuff? Its included anyway!

Not all people are going to constantly want to keep their subscription though. What about during the summer months when there isn't much to play and I'd rather be doing stuff outside. Why should I be forced to continue to pay a subscription if all I want to do is watch Netflix and play the occasional indie/single player game?

 

[dead souls]

The skies are falling.
But seriously, who has an Xbox without Gold? Why even bother with the system?

Me for one. I don't play multiplayer, so why the hell would I pay for Gold?

 

[Krilekk]

Wow, that's crazy. And dumb.

And there's no way Sony will do that with the PS4. The share button is on the stinking controller. They aren't going to block the functionality of a button on the controller for certain people.

The Move lights are on the controller as well.

 

[Chobel]

Just a question: Can I save the replays in XB1 HDD? Or they are saved only in the cloud storage?
I don't care whether XBLG is required or not, however My internet isn't that good to upload 720p videos in real time.

I know people who buy it a month at a time for $12.99

WTF?! where?

 

[jond76]

They were able to do that shit this generation because there was no real alternative for certain aspects. The PS3 was crippled by it's hardware and the Wii, well, was the Wii.

This won't be true for this generation. You can bet your ass that both Sony and Microsoft are betting big on multimedia features and a focus on social interaction and ease of use.
If Sony will be offering the same shit for free that XBL offers for 60$ a year, then things will eventually change.

That is, if gamers are actually capable of putting their money where their mouth is.

There's the catch. Anyone here grabbing a ps4 at launch/early with the intention if using it as a Netflix box plus single player games only? Its almost certain that most will pony up to play online. At that point, paywall access is moot.

 

[soul creator]

The Move lights are on the controller as well.

This made me chuckle way more than it should have

 

[ChorusLindarr]

The Move lights are on the controller as well.

Dem moove lites! Always ruinings mai gaems!

 

[RibbedHero]

Totally expected this so I'll be getting a PS4 instead

There's still stuff behind a paywall, best way to avoid it is to play on the PC.

 

[i-Lo]

There's still stuff behind a paywall, best way to avoid it is to play on the PC.

Ah, the representative is here.

 

[jond76]

Not all people are going to constantly want to keep their subscription though. What about during the summer months when there isn't much to play and I'd rather be doing stuff outside. Why should I be forced to continue to pay a subscription if all I want to do is watch Netflix and play the occasional indie/single player game?

If you're paying month to month... Well, its your money, man. But sure, valid point.

 

[SonicXtreme]

i will never understand people's obsession with watching videos of other people play videogames. it's useful for tutorials, but here's the catch; anyone who's GOOD at doing such a thing goes out and spends the money on good equipment to put up good videos, and spends their time making good, useful videos right now. i've never come across a part in a game today where i couldn't really find any videos on it in the past few years.

gonna be pretty awesome weeding through 5,000 search results for each achievement or problem in a game and trying to figure out what videos suck and what don't. oh wait that doesn't sound awesome at all, sounds like oversaturating the sites with tons of useless stuff no one really ever wants to bother watching. but hey if you can make 15 cents with an axe ad on your 20 second clip of teabagging somebody in halo, what's not to like?

also what's the deal with the sound on these game uploads for ps4/xb1? do they record microphone voices, or just strictly game sounds? i can't imagine you'd be allowed to just record everyone's voice in PUG games, right? will they even allow the recorder's voice to be included in the immediate uploads?

 

[SwiftDeath]

They don't have any games to do it with probably. Nobody announced for the launch window is going to be willing to let everybody on Live get their game for free in the first 3 months of release. Killer Instinct is kinda sort of the first Games with Gold title for X1 but it only comes with Jago so eh. Like you said common sense hasn't been Microsoft's strong suit as of late so we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm curious about this on both systems to be honest

Considering there is no BC on retail or digital games for either system there really isn't a backlog to draw from

Personally think MS won't do free games for at least 6 months to a year IF EVER

For sony though, they at least offer some of Driveclub plus all their FTP games

What sony offers for the first 6 months should be interesting

May offer us free indie games which I'm okay with

Oh, I know they usually have a crazy deal.


But I was referring to the 1 month cost.. as in buying 1 month at a time. Stretching out the cost like that over the year is just warping the cost to fit a posters agenda.

A monthly cost would be great since I go months without playing a MP game.

Yeah I find saying the $35 number to be a little misleading as well

Retail is $60 XBLG/ $50 PS+ so I would use those numbers

Although not sure if you can get deals on PS+

Still value propositions don't change much imo

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Me for one. I don't play multiplayer, so why the hell would I pay for Gold?

Same, I haven't had Gold for the 360 in almost 2 years, and the last year or so was just as a backup Netflix machine, which will make me go crazy if I think about it, considering I have 2 Rokus and 2 PS3s in the house in addition to the 360, and have for at least 3 years.

 

[Dunlop]

People can't seriously be surprised with all this. Why would they stop the paywall shit now. They've already been shown by consumers that they are willing to accept services behind a paywall. Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone; but there is a certain demographic that will pay for xbox live without a second thought. As long as these people exist, MS will continue to exploit it.

Sony is on this train now, the only solution is to avoid consoles this gen

 

[Satchel]

Pretty much this.

I get that, I've had a gold sub for over 9 years, but that doesn't mean I don't see a dick move when I see one.

I'm actually one of those people that actually really dislikes that Microsoft makes us pay to play the entirety of the game we already paid for, but I still pay it because up until these new consoles launch, there's been no reason for me NOT to pay for Gold. Which sucks.

I mean, Sony had to "give away" games to take our money, but even before that, PSN was free and yet I never played online.

Nw that Sony is paywall ing multiplayer, well, now there's REALLY no reason to stop paying for Gold. I pay for Plus anyway, so ill just continue to hunt down specials and such for both.

 

[RE_Player]

Has it been confirmed that stuff like Netflix is still behind the gold wall?

 

[boohowc]

Has it been confirmed that stuff like Netflix is still behind the gold wall?

i will facepalm if this is still the case...

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

The Move lights are on the controller as well.

Thats not a move light. Move still works with the console but its a slightly different tech.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

There's still stuff behind a paywall, best way to avoid it is to play on the PC.

So far on the PS4, there's one thing behind the wall: multiplayer for games you pay for. Not even Free2Play games, because those aren't behind the wall.

So there's the one thing. Seems like an okay deal in comparison. Still sucks, but if they can back it up with a good online infrastructure along with the "free" monthly games and discounts, if they can do that and keep it up consistently, I will always pay for PS+.

 

[goonergaz]

Why do people keep saying that even though Sony continues to demonstrate that they lockout less things behind their Paywall than MS?

Helps folk think live is better value that it actually is

 

[Eusis]

There's the catch. Anyone here grabbing a ps4 at launch/early with the intention if using it as a Netflix box plus single player games only? Its almost certain that most will pony up to play online. At that point, paywall access is moot.

If Sony failed to offer free games this would be a very plausible scenario for many of us I think.

And that's the thing: we want to pay into Sony's because they offer a lot for free. I'm playing console versions of games I got on PC as there was no way I'd double dip like that on all but a few games, most of the time the other way around, and there's stuff like Hitman I'd been constantly ignoring sales for and now basically got a longterm loaned copy just for that Plus subscription! Microsoft meanwhile just puts things that I can get free or "free" elsewhere behind that paywall, some of it working better elsewhere (part of why PS3 is leading for Netflix streaming also seems to be due to having the superior app and higher quality steaming) and now it's gotten to the point product features that shouldn't be entailing a subscription like that cable box interactivity ARE getting behind the paywall. It just comes off as pathetically miserly, and even out of touch.

 

[jond76]

Same, I haven't had Gold for the 360 in almost 2 years, and the last year or so was just as a backup Netflix machine, which will make me go crazy if I think about it, considering I have 2 Rokus and 2 PS3s in the house in addition to the 360, and have for at least 3 years.

To me tho, running every service I subscribe to through the One is actually very appealing. Voice command integration, instant game switching, etc. All that appeals to me. I have a harmony remote and I still see the allure of what MS is attempting here.

 

[szaromir]

we want to pay because they offer a lot for free.

that makes no sense.

 

[Hoo-doo]

that makes no sense.

Free not in the strictest sense of the word, but you get an immense value from your 50 bucks of PS+.

The same can't be said for XBL.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

My biggest question is to anyone offended by this, what exactly was you going to do when the console was online only? Did you not expect to be forced to buy gold then?

its shitty, but this is how Microsoft runs its business. Those clouds aren't going to pay for themselves.

 

[TriniTrin]

I doubt this news really matters to XBOne buyers as they will most likely be purchasing live if they are early adopters of the system. I have no idea why someone would buy the new xbox if they cared about all this paywall stuff. Not really huge news at all for the people interested in it and the people who aren't interested wouldn't have got live or an XBOne at launch anyways!

 

[iceatcs]

I think it is the reason why some are behind the paywall because it is quite obvious that new Xbox one features (DVR, TV guide) are likely made from MS internal. That made me suspect Netflix 360 GUI app could be MS made not from Netflix people. I have linked to a person long time ago, who work for MS shortly for doing something with Sky (UK TV), didn't get full but I suspect it must be Sky 360 app.

Maybe it might never happened the paywall if MS allow to sent SKU app to the content companies.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

They already confirmed this?

Do they really even need to? They wont even let you use netflix without paying gold, they certainly wont let you play a FTP game without paying gold.

 

[SwiftDeath]

To me tho, running every service I subscribe to through the One is actually very appealing. Voice command integration, instant game switching, etc. All that appeals to me. I have a harmony remote and I still see the allure of what MS is attempting here.

i understand your viewpoint I really do

Just hope MS delivers on this as if they don't polish it off wonderfully then that's half the value proposition of the console gone

Spoiler

Convenience is what I mean

How do you find netflix on the x360 btw?

Always heard it was a bit subpar

 

[NullPointer]

Sony is on this train now, the only solution is to avoid consoles this gen

True, but since announcing the required PSN+ for multiplayer, every time Sony clarifies things it is to point out exemptions to that rule and to remind people of all the functionality that *doesn't* require PSN+

MS and Sony are not mirror images here.

... its shitty,

Agreed. It really is shitty.

 

[Skeff]

When you post stuff like that you need to post a link to back up the facts.

this says 76 Million shipped in January LTD, pretty sure they've shipped more than a million in the past 7 Months

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/10/report-ps3-surpasses-xbox-360s-worldwide-shipped-total

31 million live gold users in 2011:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/xbox-statistics/

The numbers I posted were estimates and commonly accepted estimates on this forum, the point wasn't to be exact it was to point out that just because one poster here essentially says everyone who has a 360 has a live gold sub.

I'm not going to get into exact numbers after this post as it's off topic and not worth arguing about, the point has been made.

 

[farisr]

My biggest question is to anyone offended by this, what exactly was you going to do when the console was online only? Did you not expect to be forced to buy gold then?

Wasn't going to buy the console at all if it was online only.

 

[Shambles]

I fully expect the power button to be behind a pay wall as well.

 

[ToyBroker]

Pretty much this.

What a surprise.

How'd we all know that you'd show up here to show your blanket support without addressing anyone's issues.

 

[Oppo]

I think the jury's still out on just how petty MS can be.

Several juries have attempted to assess this, to be fair.

 

[soul creator]

I think it is the reason why some are behind the paywall because it is quite obvious that new Xbox one features (DVR, TV guide) are likely made from MS internal. That made me suspect Netflix 360 GUI app could be MS made not from Netflix people. I have linked to a person work MS shortly for doing something with Sky (UK TV), didn't get full but I suspect it must be Sky 360 app.

Maybe it might never happened the paywall if MS allow to sent SKU app to the content companies.

I believe every 360 app is made by MS. They also tend to play up the Kinect and system-wide Bing integration for reasons why someone would want to pay for it on an Xbox, rather than use it on something else.

I wonder how much of this changes though on Xbox One, since it has the Windows 8 core for apps, and obviously not every Windows 8 app is made directly by MS.

 

[NullPointer]

I fully expect the power button to be behind a pay wall as well.

There's probably a paywall chained up and bricked over within the larger paywall.

Just paywalls, all the way down...

I fully expect the power button to be behind a pay wall as well.

What power button?

;p

 

[jond76]

i understand your viewpoint I really do

Just hope MS delivers on this as if they don't polish it off wonderfully then that's half the value proposition of the console gone

Spoiler

Convenience is what I mean

How do you find netflix on the x360 btw?

Always heard it was a bit subpar

Netflix is cool for me on Xbox. Voice commands were a godsend when we first had our child.

 

[ToyBroker]

this says 76 Million shipped in January LTD, pretty sure they've shipped more than a million in the past 7 Months

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/10/report-ps3-surpasses-xbox-360s-worldwide-shipped-total

31 million live gold users in 2011:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/xbox-statistics/

The numbers I posted were estimates and commonly accepted estimates on this forum, the point wasn't to be exact it was to point out that just because one poster here essentially says everyone who has a 360 has a live gold sub.

I'm not going to get into exact numbers after this post as it's off topic and not worth arguing about, the point has been made.

Uh, that's not what that says AT ALL.

It says Xbox Live subscribers.

That includes silver.

There's no way there's 30 million gold members.

 

[jond76]

Uh, that's not what that says AT ALL.

It says Xbox Live subscribers.

That includes silver.

There's no way there's 30 million gold members.

To be fair, silver really isn't a subscription to anything.

 

[szaromir]

Free not in the strictest sense of the word, but you get an immense value from your 50 bucks of PS+.

The same can't be said for XBL.

Both seem like pouring money down the drain to be honest.

 

[Eusis]

that makes no sense.

Yeah, that is "fighting for everlasting peace" bad now that I stop to process it.

Still, you get more for a Plus subscription, and that looks to be true even on PS4 (though I don't expect more than indies and glorified demoes for the first year or two) and it's not mainly stuff arbitrarily held back anyway. The two examples of THAT (online MP and cloud saves) are both dependent on their servers more so than something like Netflix anyway, and even then at least some F2P and subscription games are set to be exceptions to paying for Plus, as it should be.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Wasn't going to buy the console at all if it was online only.

Well call me cynical, but the 180 on DRM made the forced paywall stuff even more likely as Microsoft cannot guarantee users being online any other way.

Make no mistake, Microsoft wants you online and connected to live servers at all times, they just have to be a bit more surreptitious about it now.

 

[Skeff]

Uh, that's not what that says AT ALL.

It says Xbox Live subscribers.

That includes silver.

There's no way there's 30 million gold members.

well spotted, I guess that means that the point i was making of not all 360 owners have XBLG is even more emphatic.

 

[bigmf]

Opting out of the XBox one sending pictures of your junk to the NSA is behind the paywall too.

 

[DR2K]

Just adding more value to gold

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Both seem like pouring money down the drain to be honest.

If they keep giving away games every month and with the dedicated servers for all games with that cloud thing on top of that, its definitely more worth the $ it than it is now.

 

[farisr]

Uh, that's not what that says AT ALL.

It says Xbox Live subscribers.

That includes silver.

There's no way there's 30 million gold members.

We've been saying 30 million gold subscribers as a generous estimate (that 60% of all Live members have a subscription, even though last we heard the percentage was closer to 50). There are 48 million Live members as of this year.